It's a fitting solution.

None of your comments make any sense. It's like you're on auto-pilot.

In unrelated news, that special Honda taillight, that nobody else sells, costs $5000. Maybe it's just a glitch, since when anyone else orders it, it is much less by half.

But Honda has little to do with this claim.

The EPA testing schedule for MPG comes from a third-party, accredited tested facility. Honda doesn't actually claim 50 mpg- the testing facility comes back with the number that goes on the sticker.

And it's no secret that mpg will vary. When driven carefully by an experienced driver, no passengers, no cargo, many cars can easily get 15% better mpg than the sticker says. Or more. You fill the trunk with junk, full of passengers, slam on the gas after a stoplight goes green, well, no shiat you're not gonna get the EPA rating. Also, gasoline formulations will change mpg and a million other things.

The whole point of EPA standards is that the mfg can't make an arbitrary method for determining mpg. The EPA method does not pretend to predict exactly what your mpg will be, it tries its best to specify real-world driving conditions and establishes a testing standard which is consistent for all mfgs.

Now if Honda somehow modified the production somehow after the test model and it adversely affected mpg, then there's a case. Or maybe she just got a lemon. I'd say if she got a slightly defective vehicle which would only have gotten 40 mpg in the same EPA test AND they couldn't fix that under warranty, then yeah, she's got a case.

Whatever happened to "Your mileage may vary"?

Just how much less than the promised 50 was this thing getting anyway...

Honda will fight this with vigor.

/reaching way back for that one

djkutch: I'm confused. I thought businesses were being strangle held by regulations, because they would never lie.

Yeah, they don't like people knowing that most government regulation is actually both proposed and written by "industry councils". If the public knew how beneficial regulations actually were to large companies, they might not be so quick to call for more and more regulation. Ah, who am I kidding?

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Whatever happened to "Your mileage may vary"?

Just how much less than the promised 50 was this thing getting anyway...

From what I remember reading, it was getting 30 mpg. When you're getting a little more than half the advertised mileage there's an issue. Glad she won.

Oznog: But Honda has little to do with this claim.

The problem is that Honda went and installed a software update on the Civic Hybrids that significantly reduced the MPG. So people had the Civic hybrid for a year or two, got good mileage, took the thing in for standard service and whoop, MPG down to a lot less.

/has a civic hybrid.
//still gets 45+ MPG in the summer.
///25-30 in cold winters.
////38 this winter, go global warming.

I hope Honda has their Passport ready because they're heading into the City of lawsuits. Also hope they Freed the checkbook 'cause there's a Stream of lawyers Pilot-ing toward them. If my Insight has Inspired you, take to the Airwaves and proclaim me a Legend. Even if it hasn't, you have to admit there's an Element of truth in what I said.

For more info see this link

Link (new window)

But in short Honda advertised 50MPG but the car at best got 30 MPG and a software update that was to make the car have better MPG only made it worse.

... and all that Jazz

Holodigm: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Whatever happened to "Your mileage may vary"?

Just how much less than the promised 50 was this thing getting anyway...

From what I remember reading, it was getting 30 mpg. When you're getting a little more than half the advertised mileage there's an issue. Glad she won.

*whistle* Wow, that sucks.

My Scion gets better than the sticker mileage though, so I'm going to gloat for a bit.

/Did 130-odd miles on 2.5 gal of gas the other day.
//Magic hatchback FTW.

this is also a nice "fark you" to class action lawyers

Will it take a Quintet of court losses, before Honda acts with Vigor to resolve this issue?

What a 50 mpg Honda may look like

Picked up a nice civic for my friends daughter yesterday. Not a bad car....but $7k for any car for an18 year old?

dumbobruni: this is also a nice "fark you" to class action lawyers

This is the only thing to learn here.

My Civic Hybrid would easily get 52 mpg if I only drove 45 mph on a flat road. At 65-70 mph I still average 44 mpg.

dumbobruni: this is also a nice "fark you" to class action lawyers

Yup, class action lawsuits exist to make class action lawyers rich. Make Honda litigate each claim seperately.

Oznog: But Honda has little to do with this claim.

The EPA testing schedule for MPG comes from a third-party, accredited tested facility. Honda doesn't actually claim 50 mpg- the testing facility comes back with the number that goes on the sticker.

And it's no secret that mpg will vary. When driven carefully by an experienced driver, no passengers, no cargo, many cars can easily get 15% better mpg than the sticker says. Or more. You fill the trunk with junk, full of passengers, slam on the gas after a stoplight goes green, well, no shiat you're not gonna get the EPA rating. Also, gasoline formulations will change mpg and a million other things.

The whole point of EPA standards is that the mfg can't make an arbitrary method for determining mpg. The EPA method does not pretend to predict exactly what your mpg will be, it tries its best to specify real-world driving conditions and establishes a testing standard which is consistent for all mfgs.

Now if Honda somehow modified the production somehow after the test model and it adversely affected mpg, then there's a case. Or maybe she just got a lemon. I'd say if she got a slightly defective vehicle which would only have gotten 40 mpg in the same EPA test AND they couldn't fix that under warranty, then yeah, she's got a case.

So Honda isn't responsible for the information in their advertisements?

KarmaSpork: dumbobruni: this is also a nice "fark you" to class action lawyers

And that's full of win imho

In a previous thread about this story, somebody posted the quote: "If you wantreal justice, go to small claim courts."

gorbishof: Picked up a nice civic for my friends daughter yesterday. Not a bad car....but $7k for any car for an18 year old?

Why are you buying an expensive car for your friend's 18 year old daughter, though?

Oznog: But Honda has little to do with this claim.

The EPA testing schedule for MPG comes from a third-party, accredited tested facility. Honda doesn't actually claim 50 mpg- the testing facility comes back with the number that goes on the sticker.

The cars hit their stated EPA numbers when new. The problem is that the batteries begin deteriorating within months and those numbers are no longer reachable. Honda and its battery supplier are responsible, not the EPA folks.

bill37663: Oznog: The whole point of EPA standards is that the mfg can't make an arbitrary method for determining mpg. The EPA method does not pretend to predict exactly what your mpg will be,

So Honda isn't responsible for the information in their advertisements?

The point is that the number in the advertisement bears no relation to what the car will do. Driving conditions and drivers are simply too variable. The EPA test isn't even done on a real road, it's done on a treadmill.

The only truthful ad would be, "Does at least 1mpg when driven as recommended". I don't think that would sell many cars.

ShOulda got a prius

Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: gorbishof: Picked up a nice civic for my friends daughter yesterday. Not a bad car....but $7k for any car for an18 year old?

Why are you buying an expensive car for your friend's 18 year old daughter, though?

He wants to fark her?

Joce678: bill37663: Oznog:

The point is that the number in the advertisement bears no relation to what the car will do. Driving conditions and drivers are simply too variable. The EPA test isn't even done on a real road, it's done on a treadmill.



You're right - the test bears no resemblance to reality. The test doesn't include trying to merge into traffic on the freeway, trying to get ahead of that damned semi in a rainstorm so that you can actually see something beyond the inside of your windshield, or bumping it up to 80mph when you're out in the middle of nowhere at 2:00am and can't even see another headlight.

The question is what would a hyper-miler get? You know, those guys who are going to drive their car for maximum mileage - the rest of the world be damned. The ones who go 0 - 60 in a fortnight. The ones who coast for the last 1/2 mile before their exit because they naturally go from 60 to 35 and don't waste any of their momentum by using the brake. The guy that makes us want to drive a Sherman Tank just so we could crush him like an empty Coors Light can. What kind of mileage would that guy get?

So this is true of most all cars.

mrlewish: So this is true of most all cars.

Certainly- and it's idiotic to compare the mileage of current cars with VW Rabbits, Dodge Omnis, and Ford Fiestas of 20+ years ago. Far different and less restrictive emissions requirements were in place then, and the cars were significantly lighter because safety equipment was pretty much restricted to seat belts back then, and practically nothing but Jeeps were AWD.
We rode in a rental car in Japan a year ago, and all you had to do was slam a door to see how much more lightly built they are there.....it was a Nissan something-or-other (names are all different there), and got over 40 mpg.
So- are we going back to the days of no emission controls and safety equipment? Obviously not.

gorbishof: Picked up a nice civic for my friends daughter yesterday. Not a bad car....but $7k for any car for an18 year old?

valid point i wonder about sometimes. when i was young one could buy used dirt cheap. how a young guy is supposed to afford a date these days is beyond me. pisses me off when i see someone selling grandmas boring beat up old car for a small fortune when it's barely worth hundreds.

three years ago there was a civic down the block with 250k miles in it selling for $1500. which i thought was ridiculous. after looking around further i learned that $1500 high mileage civic was a bargain. holy crap.