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(C|Net)   Tim Cook: we care about our slav...err, workers   (news.cnet.com) divider line 87
    More: Unlikely, Piper Jaffray, Foxconn, CNET  
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2689 clicks; posted to Business » on 01 Feb 2012 at 10:30 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-01 10:32:45 AM
Why even say anything? The herd cares about shiny things with increasing numbers on the end of the names, not chinamen.
 
2012-02-01 10:35:11 AM
I believe they do care. Heck, I'll bet they're the ones who paid to have those nice nets installed to make sure people who jumped off the building avoided suicide would still be able to toil away on the iPad3.
 
2012-02-01 10:35:48 AM
Why the hell did I pay 700$ for this iPad if it was made with slave labor? Would it have been triple the cost if it had been made in the USA? Disgusting, and typical corporate sleaze when confronted, "I'll just write the world a letter saying how much we care, that's all we need to do."

Posted from my iPad. (sadly)
 
2012-02-01 10:42:04 AM
Well at least Apple customers are already adept at putting the blinders up.
 
2012-02-01 10:48:18 AM
They're called "developing" nations because they're ... developing. You don't suddenly spring from the earth with first-world facilities, regulations, and infrastructure. There's a period when, sadly, you have lousy conditions while you build a modern society. Yes it sucks, but the workers are still better off than they were toiling dawn-to-dusk in a rice paddy with no electricity, medical care, or education, with high infant mortality and a life span that ended in their forties. If they weren't, they wouldn't be flocking to take these 'slave' jobs.
 
2012-02-01 10:51:11 AM

jjorsett: They're called "developing" nations because they're ... developing. You don't suddenly spring from the earth with first-world facilities, regulations, and infrastructure. There's a period when, sadly, you have lousy conditions while you build a modern society. Yes it sucks, but the workers are still better off than they were toiling dawn-to-dusk in a rice paddy with no electricity, medical care, or education, with high infant mortality and a life span that ended in their forties. If they weren't, they wouldn't be flocking to take these 'slave' jobs.


So let's take advantage of it while we can!
 
2012-02-01 10:51:44 AM
Apple looks at cost alone. if the factories were forced to adhere to strict safety and labor regulations, it would not be economically feesable to outsource overseas.

America cant compete with slave labor.. this is why we cant have nice things like jobs... or money.
 
2012-02-01 10:52:04 AM
Obligatory:

Mr. Daisey and the Apple Factory (new window).
 
2012-02-01 11:05:04 AM

Malcolm_Sex: Well at least Apple customers are already adept at putting the blinders up.


You know, I"m pretty sure you could put Chinese slave children in an Apple store, in plain view of customers, being whipped while they hand assembled each iProduct and many of them may not even lift their heads up from their current iProduct long enough to notice.

/guess that applies to most people though...everyone knows slave labor makes their clothes/electronics, etc...but people turn a blind eye...
 
2012-02-01 11:06:06 AM
I "liked" the quote from the Apple pervert ( aka executive ) last week where he came right out and said that the company really doesn't give a shiat about america and it's high unemployment rate.
 
2012-02-01 11:06:13 AM

ToastTheRabbit: Apple looks at cost alone. if the factories were forced to adhere to strict safety and labor regulations, it would not be economically feesable to outsource overseas.

America cant compete with slave labor.. this is why we cant have nice things like jobs... or money.


yeah, just wait until these 'developing' countries realize they can say "fark you company, pay us more". I"m still betting companies will start enslaving entire races of people. They'll probably start with Finland. ;-)
 
2012-02-01 11:07:35 AM
Crapple cares - NOT.

The whole reason for "outsourcing" is to avoid the protections, rights and fair pay enjoyed by working Americans in the U.S. They produce products outside the U.S. because they can underpay, overwork, hire children, and generally treat them with disrespect and cruelty. These workers are underpaid and unhappy. This will effect Apple products and business in the long run. Outsourcing is just very short term, poor thinking on the part of American businesses. Karma is a biatch and it will most surely catch up with them.
 
2012-02-01 11:07:47 AM

jjorsett: They're called "developing" nations because they're ... developing. You don't suddenly spring from the earth with first-world facilities, regulations, and infrastructure. There's a period when, sadly, you have lousy conditions while you build a modern society. Yes it sucks, but the workers are still better off than they were toiling dawn-to-dusk in a rice paddy with no electricity, medical care, or education, with high infant mortality and a life span that ended in their forties. If they weren't, they wouldn't be flocking to take these 'slave' jobs.


Wow, that is some world class trolling, I need your newsletter.

Basically using this veiled attempt to explain away apple's shiatty tactics while inadvertently defending slavery in the USA and illegal immigrants at the same time.

Bravo, sir, bravo.
 
2012-02-01 11:08:01 AM
I would gladly pay 26% more to have my products by apple/samsung/motorola assembled here in the US. Sure I might have to save up another month and a half before the next iphone or droid upgrade, but I'll do so knowing that I'm buying from American/nonslave jobs. It's not like we're getting a 90% discount by using slave labor.
 
2012-02-01 11:12:48 AM

GoodyearPimp: Why even say anything? The herd cares about shiny things with increasing numbers on the end of the names, not chinamen.


Dude, "chinamen" is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-Chinese, please.
 
2012-02-01 11:14:15 AM

Jaws_Victim: Why the hell did I pay 700$ for this iPad if it was made with slave labor? Would it have been triple the cost if it had been made in the USA? Disgusting, and typical corporate sleaze when confronted, "I'll just write the world a letter saying how much we care, that's all we need to do."

Posted from my iPad. (sadly)


I'm always pissed when I look at things like Calvin Klein jeans and such, which cost considerably more than jeans made by union labor in America (unionmade.com), but that were made in China. If you're going to charge a huge amount of money just to put your stupid corporate logo on something, at least pay your workers better than slave wages.
 
2012-02-01 11:14:56 AM

modestlivinglegend: The whole reason for "outsourcing" is to avoid the protections, rights and fair pay enjoyed by working Americans in the U.S. They produce products outside the U.S. because they can underpay, overwork, hire children, and generally treat them with disrespect and cruelty. These workers are underpaid and unhappy. This will effect Apple products and business in the long run. Outsourcing is just very short term, poor thinking on the part of American businesses. Karma is a biatch and it will most surely catch up with them.


I agree with the bolded part they do it to avoid any kind of protection OSHA has or regulations that has been put forth for safety. I remember reading an old article where they sent workers that used to work in a good year plant in ohio down to mexico where it was moved to and they were commenting how people were reaching into chemical without protective gloves or suits. It was just by shere coincidence that this same city had a lot of women who were now having miscarriages and men with crippling arthritis.

Until people quit buying their shiat in protest nothing will change, unfortunately the iphone is still popular with kids and parents have no balls to tell their kids no and to teach them to stand up for anything any longer.
 
2012-02-01 11:16:40 AM

dababler: I would gladly pay 26% more to have my products by apple/samsung/motorola assembled here in the US. Sure I might have to save up another month and a half before the next iphone or droid upgrade, but I'll do so knowing that I'm buying from American/nonslave jobs. It's not like we're getting a 90% discount by using slave labor.


The huge discount isn't due to slave labor - that's just icing on the cake. For things like high-end consumer electronics, the savings comes from the ability to completely ignore environmental regulation. The toxic (and I mean toxic) waste produced by this sort of stuff can just be dumped wherever or belched into the air. That the people also work for pennies an hour is just gravy.

(For things like cheap plastic widgets, where the profit margin is wafer-thin, the labor cost is a factor, but the iPad's profit margin is most certainly not wafer-thin. Actually, the iPad could lose money on every unit; Apple would make it back via their skimming on the App Store.)
 
2012-02-01 11:19:45 AM

steamingpile: modestlivinglegend: The whole reason for "outsourcing" is to avoid the protections, rights and fair pay enjoyed by working Americans in the U.S. They produce products outside the U.S. because they can underpay, overwork, hire children, and generally treat them with disrespect and cruelty. These workers are underpaid and unhappy. This will effect Apple products and business in the long run. Outsourcing is just very short term, poor thinking on the part of American businesses. Karma is a biatch and it will most surely catch up with them.

I agree with the bolded part they do it to avoid any kind of protection OSHA has or regulations that has been put forth for safety. I remember reading an old article where they sent workers that used to work in a good year plant in ohio down to mexico where it was moved to and they were commenting how people were reaching into chemical without protective gloves or suits. It was just by shere coincidence that this same city had a lot of women who were now having miscarriages and men with crippling arthritis.

Until people quit buying their shiat in protest nothing will change, unfortunately the iphone is still popular with kids and parents have no balls to tell their kids no and to teach them to stand up for anything any longer.


There isn't a single mobile phone you can buy that wasn't made under slave-labor conditions, with the exception of the $10,000 and up crazy ruby-encrusted thing that was on Fark the other day, and even then I think the internals were made in China.
 
2012-02-01 11:22:40 AM

dababler: I would gladly pay 26% more to have my products by apple/samsung/motorola assembled here in the US. Sure I might have to save up another month and a half before the next iphone or droid upgrade, but I'll do so knowing that I'm buying from American/nonslave jobs. It's not like we're getting a 90% discount by using slave labor.


I lived and worked during the pre supply side raygunomics disaster economy we have been living in since 1981.

It wasn't utopia but it was so superior to the shiat we have today. Those were times when much less concern was given to getting a job if you were out of work. You simply picked up the paper and got one and it paid the bills. You did pay more for consumer items but you had a lot more money to spend cause the job situation was much better.

Long term unemployment was much more rare. The unemployment rate wasn't nearly as cooked as it is today too..
 
2012-02-01 11:24:13 AM
iPad is sold at several hundred dollars profit. Even with their slave labor, they could afford to reduce prices. They don't. Why? They're Apple.
 
2012-02-01 11:26:51 AM

jjorsett: They're called "developing" nations because they're ... developing. You don't suddenly spring from the earth with first-world facilities, regulations, and infrastructure. There's a period when, sadly, you have lousy conditions while you build a modern society. Yes it sucks, but the workers are still better off than they were toiling dawn-to-dusk in a rice paddy with no electricity, medical care, or education, with high infant mortality and a life span that ended in their forties. If they weren't, they wouldn't be flocking to take these 'slave' jobs.


While that's true, it doesn't mean that we have to condone or support the system. It could be argued that if the West demanded China create and enforce labor safety and wage laws, said laws would get implemented considerably more quickly. We don't, of course, because the almighty dollar is more important.
 
2012-02-01 11:33:36 AM
Is Apple the only company that uses Foxcon? No. I know these are horrible abuses, but I am wearing Nikes and typing this on a Dell. I am betting I am using more than one slave labor product today.

And no, that doesn't justify it.

These countries just need to undergo what America did in the 1880's through 1920's and have a labor revolution. And, there is labor organization going on in China, it's illegal currently, just as it was in the US for years.

www.coalcampmemories.com

See this:

ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2012-02-01 11:34:08 AM

Lord Dimwit: Actually, the iPad could lose money on every unit; Apple would make it back via their skimming on the App Store.


Hmmmm... here's an idea : Why don't you ask Amazon how well that model is working? Judging from the numbers, if Amazon sells many more Fires, it's going out of business.
 
kab
2012-02-01 11:36:53 AM
"We care about every worker in our worldwide supply chain," Cook said.

Dear Mr. Cook. Stop with the bullshiatting.

thanks.
 
2012-02-01 11:37:20 AM

Lord Dimwit: There isn't a single mobile phone you can buy that wasn't made under slave-labor conditions, with the exception of the $10,000 and up crazy ruby-encrusted thing that was on Fark the other day, and even then I think the internals were made in China.


I agree but you and I both know that everyone followed apples lead on this, it will take a worker rebellion to get this to stop but I think if/when that happens the chinese military will be sent in to squash it, I wonder if the rest of the world will have the balls to stand up to them?
 
2012-02-01 11:38:57 AM

stuhayes2010: Is Apple the only company that uses Foxcon? No. I know these are horrible abuses, but I am wearing Nikes and typing this on a Dell. I am betting I am using more than one slave labor product today.

And no, that doesn't justify it.

These countries just need to undergo what America did in the 1880's through 1920's and have a labor revolution. And, there is labor organization going on in China, it's illegal currently, just as it was in the US for years.

[www.coalcampmemories.com image 359x286]

See this:

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]


Any time someone says the People's Republic of China is Communist, I ask if they understand what that really means.

(Note that there have been precious few actually communist (note the lower-case 'c') societies.)
 
2012-02-01 11:41:22 AM

modestlivinglegend: The whole reason for "outsourcing" is to avoid the protections, rights and fair pay enjoyed by working Americans in the U.S.


The fact China can manufacture things in a fraction of the time it take to manufacture them here has nothing to do with it, right?

I love the hypocrisy already at play. If you have a choice to go to a restaurant that takes three hours to prepare your meal, or one that takes 15 minutes, where are you going? Each and every one of you will chose the faster restaurant each and every time. Why? Because you don't want to pay the opportunity cost of the wait.

So exactly why would think a manufacturer would be any different?
 
2012-02-01 11:41:24 AM
This blaming apple for the labor in china is amusing as fark. You people whining about it saying Apple is evil are idiots. If you are using a computer, regardless of who's sticker is on the outside some chinese kid was beaten and forced to make it for pennies an hour and they LOVE IT.

Those towels you get for $2 at wal-mart? yeah, chinese labor.

Everything with a made in china sticker on it is made with low paid pennies compared to what we pay people labor. Blaming apple is headline getting and inflammatory but is not the problem. Everything made in china is made this way, or worse. Time people woke up to that.

oh and we didn't get rid of manufacturing jobs and move them to china because it was 'too expensive'. That's bullshiat. We moved jobs to China because we went all robotic and automated and didn't need a person doing manual labor and be paid for it when 10 people can run a factory that ran hundreds of employees before.

The chinese just do it cheaper than we can with robots even. Because they don't get paid shiat, they are oppressed, and we've loved it for years but since it's cool to hate apple for turning around the company and making things a lot of us love and line up to buy it's great for the haters to point at them and blame them for everything from their ivory slave labor built towers.
 
2012-02-01 11:46:02 AM
I like how they say they make sure they "educate" their workers about their rights.

Option A: "Rights? You don't have any."

Option B: "Here's a pamphlet about worker rights. IF you try to claim any of these we will find a reason to fire you."

Option B happens all the time in the US.
 
2012-02-01 11:46:21 AM
jjorsett: Yes it sucks, but the workers are still better off than they were toiling dawn-to-dusk in a rice paddy with no electricity, medical care, or education, with high infant mortality and a life span that ended in their forties. If they weren't, they wouldn't be flocking to take these 'slave' jobs.

I have to disagree with that last statement - the flocking is only indicative of Foxconn (and others) having good recruiters. I doubt the recruiters mention the anti-suicide nets in their sales pitch.

/You know, assuming they even had a choice to leave the rice paddies for Foxconn, that is
 
2012-02-01 11:48:15 AM
1macgeek: are you high? Do you not think that maybe the lack of regulations/worker protections feeds into that advantage in manufacturing speed?
 
2012-02-01 11:51:16 AM

Bob16: dababler: I would gladly pay 26% more to have my products by apple/samsung/motorola assembled here in the US. Sure I might have to save up another month and a half before the next iphone or droid upgrade, but I'll do so knowing that I'm buying from American/nonslave jobs. It's not like we're getting a 90% discount by using slave labor.

I lived and worked during the pre supply side raygunomics disaster economy we have been living in since 1981.

It wasn't utopia but it was so superior to the shiat we have today. Those were times when much less concern was given to getting a job if you were out of work. You simply picked up the paper and got one and it paid the bills. You did pay more for consumer items but you had a lot more money to spend cause the job situation was much better.

Long term unemployment was much more rare. The unemployment rate wasn't nearly as cooked as it is today too..


Yeah, that late 70s economy just rocked, didn't it. Then you had 8 years of the Republican controlled House putting in policies and budgets no sane people would ever accept.

Serious question, how can you have the cognitive skill necessary to browse the web, much less post on Fark?
 
2012-02-01 12:00:45 PM
As an addendum to my earlier comment, google "chinese farmland seizures". It's hard to "voluntarily" leave a farm to join a factory when your farm was stolen so that the factory could be built in the first place.
 
2012-02-01 12:01:44 PM

1macgeek: modestlivinglegend: The whole reason for "outsourcing" is to avoid the protections, rights and fair pay enjoyed by working Americans in the U.S.

The fact China can manufacture things in a fraction of the time it take to manufacture them here has nothing to do with it, right?

I love the hypocrisy already at play. If you have a choice to go to a restaurant that takes three hours to prepare your meal, or one that takes 15 minutes, where are you going? Each and every one of you will chose the faster restaurant each and every time. Why? Because you don't want to pay the opportunity cost of the wait.

So exactly why would think a manufacturer would be any different?


And the fact that we could do EXACTLY that if these companies had invested here in the US and not overseas means nothing?

You are a terribly short sighted person. Enjoy watching this country turn 3rd world.
 
2012-02-01 12:01:48 PM

Carousel Beast: Yeah, that late 70s economy just rocked, didn't it.


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Ah Einstein.

Check out the annual job growth rate under Carter. ( 3.06 )

Since the depression the only guy that did better was LBJ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_created_during_U.S._presidential_te r ms
 
2012-02-01 12:02:21 PM

1macgeek: modestlivinglegend: The whole reason for "outsourcing" is to avoid the protections, rights and fair pay enjoyed by working Americans in the U.S.

The fact China can manufacture things in a fraction of the time it take to manufacture them here has nothing to do with it, right?

I love the hypocrisy already at play. If you have a choice to go to a restaurant that takes three hours to prepare your meal, or one that takes 15 minutes, where are you going? Each and every one of you will chose the faster restaurant each and every time. Why? Because you don't want to pay the opportunity cost of the wait.

So exactly why would think a manufacturer would be any different?


Can I phone the first restaurant two hours and forty-five minutes in advance to place my order? If so then I'll go to the first one!

I think the reason people are getting pissed off over this is because the story broke right when Apple announced their profit, they could easily afford to build their products in the US, they just don't.
 
2012-02-01 12:11:32 PM

1macgeek: I love the hypocrisy already at play. If you have a choice to go to a restaurant that takes three hours to prepare your meal, or one that takes 15 minutes, where are you going? Each and every one of you will chose the faster restaurant each and every time.


Dumb example. If you have a choice to go to Gary Danko's, which takes 45 minutes to prepare your meal, or McDonalds, which takes 4 minutes, where are you going?
 
2012-02-01 12:14:42 PM
Dear Apple,

If you spend three decades telling everyone you're a revolutionary company, don't get all c*nty when we expect you to act like one.


Regards,
Cubansaltyballs
 
2012-02-01 12:16:59 PM

1macgeek: Lord Dimwit: Actually, the iPad could lose money on every unit; Apple would make it back via their skimming on the App Store.

Hmmmm... here's an idea : Why don't you ask Amazon how well that model is working? Judging from the numbers, if Amazon sells many more Fires, it's going out of business.


source??? I'm pretty sure that Amazon is of the opinion that the challenge is to get people to buy the Fire. Everything else is essentially micro-transactions to fill the device with product.

6 million units sold 4th quarter 2011 (new window) gives them a good start at a customer base
 
2012-02-01 12:32:05 PM
And he says this with a straight face. No wonder big business controls the government. The leaders think alike and speak alike.
 
2012-02-01 12:38:10 PM

tboucher: This blaming apple for the labor in china is amusing as fark. You people whining about it saying Apple is evil are idiots. If you are using a computer, regardless of who's sticker is on the outside some chinese kid was beaten and forced to make it for pennies an hour and they LOVE IT.


The blame lies squarely with the Chinese government, yes. They won't float their currency, they add tariffs to all imports, have no environmental regulations, and they crack down on any sort of internal attempts at worker organization.

But it's fun seeing Apple, now the top dog, squirm a bit. Cook knows they are also selling an image, and that can be a double edged sword with bad publicity, which is why he's bothering to pay empty lip service to this issue at all. The CEO of Dell doesn't to come out publicly and justify their business practices.
 
2012-02-01 12:41:20 PM
They DO care. Just not enough to do anything.
 
2012-02-01 01:02:41 PM
Cook announced that Apple intends to boost worker morale by instituting a policy of mandatory shock treatments for all workers showing signs of depression or moodiness. Factory overseers have been issued cattle prods to facilitate the new program.

"We're very excited about the new wellness enhancement program," Cook said, "And if it doesn't work, we're looking into distributing crystal meth to the workers."
 
2012-02-01 01:38:04 PM

YoungLochinvar: 1macgeek: are you high? Do you not think that maybe the lack of regulations/worker protections feeds into that advantage in manufacturing speed?


No, I think it's the fact that China has more people willing to work in those conditions than we have people. Period.

Psylence: And the fact that we could do EXACTLY that if these companies had invested here in the US and not overseas means nothing?


Bullshiat. American workers will not do what it takes to compete with the Chinese, or all of that manufacturing would already be here.

change1211: Can I phone the first restaurant two hours and forty-five minutes in advance to place my order? If so then I'll go to the first one!


No, you can't. You just placed the order, and the restaurants are the same. You are a liar if you say you would chose the longer path. Americans prove that day and and day out, 365 days a year.

change1211: I think the reason people are getting pissed off over this is because the story broke right when Apple announced their profit, they could easily afford to build their products in the US, they just don't.


If it's so easy then start competing with Apple and show the world how it's done.

Why Would I Read the Article: Dumb example. If you have a choice to go to Gary Danko's, which takes 45 minutes to prepare your meal, or McDonalds, which takes 4 minutes, where are you going?


Dumb reply. The restaurants are the same. You are choosing to believe they are different to have some chance, at least in your mind, of having a semblance of an argument. The problem is every word, every syllable I wrote is absolutely true. Arguing against truth is folly, at best.

Xavier99: source???


Are you deaf, dumb, blind, or stupid? Seriously... how much of an energy drain is it to type "amazon earnings" into a browser? We're not talking about harnessing the entire power output of the sun here.
 
2012-02-01 01:38:28 PM

tillerman35: They DO care. Just not enough to do anything.


Hey thats not fair to those nice cuddly one percenters.

They care enough to give lip service to the problem.
 
2012-02-01 01:56:57 PM

1macgeek: Xavier99: source???

Are you deaf, dumb, blind, or stupid? Seriously... how much of an energy drain is it to type "amazon earnings" into a browser? We're not talking about harnessing the entire power output of the sun here.


Clearly I must be, as while the article you linked does state:

"Operating expenses grew by 38% as the company continued to spend heavily on its infrastructure and new products such as the Kindle Fire tablet."

It also stated that while there was a decline in earnings (not running at a loss) they still beat the projections for the quarter. Now, there wouldn't happen to have been any other products which were also infrastructure costs for 2012...such as their cloud product??? Oh wait, there was a sentence that mentioned the KINDLE, so it must be all due to the KINDLE!!!!
 
2012-02-01 01:58:09 PM
gah, for 2011 not 2012.
 
2012-02-01 03:05:27 PM
If you're posting in this thread, you are doing so on a device made by 'slave' labor (almost every electronics manufacturer uses Foxconn; don't kid yourself, iHaters). All the platitudes and righteous indignation in the world won't erase the fact that your quality of life wouldn't be possible without 'slave' labor. At least be up front about it and admit you lose no sleep over it.

I sincerely do not give half a shiat about Chinese laborers, and I love my iPhone. At least I'm honest.
 
2012-02-01 03:39:06 PM
weknowmemes.com

I just don't understand how someone can call themselves a Buddhist and do this to other human beings. Buddhist meditations (and, yes, I'm speaking from experience) are about compassion, empathy, kindness.

How did Jobs claim to be a Buddhist and yet treat fellow human beings like this? And, clearly, he has been able to co-opt the rest of Apple's management to think (and, apparently, dress) just like him. "Yeah we're screwing over people and polluting the environment, but don't we have a swell life?"

I know this is Fark, so I'm standing by for the inevitable...
 
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