Syria

I thought the middle east didn't want us meddling in their affairs?

Why the sudden change, huh? What's up with that, Arab League? Are we buddies or not?

What's Russia's angle, here?

Syria's dictator is a murderous bastard.

I wonder what will happen when he's gone?

20 year civil war?

Democracy flowering in the Mideast?

Probably just the usual clusterfark.

natmar_76: I thought the middle east didn't want us meddling in their affairs?

Why the sudden change, huh? What's up with that, Arab League? Are we buddies or not?

It turns out they only want it when they want it. Funny, that.

My guess is Zaire.

Kibosh is a Yiddish term, no? My guess is Israel. Are they still in the Arab League?

Luxembourg? I heard we went to war with them last week.

Really? Russia?!

...Hitler?

the_chief: My guess is Zaire.

Joined by Czechoslovakia.

chknjetski: What's Russia's angle, here?

Russia is even slower to react to major global changes than the US is.

What exactly is the rationale for Russia acting this way? So the Russians don't set the precedent that it isn't okay to kill your own people en masse without others intervening?

Li Baodong, China's ambassador to the UN, said Beijing was opposed to punitive measures such as military action or sanctions against Damascus and instead called for dialogue between Damascus and the opposition.

Assad regime: "We're just conducting dialogue! Dialogued 40 protesters right in the face just last week!"

I knew it was Djibouti.

Doesn't Russia like to export weapons systems to Syria?

/just sayin'

The far superior article in the New York Times (new window) makes it clear that Russia, with the quiet support of China and India, does not approve of regime change. Russia leads the faction that believes the Security Council has no role in settling domestic disputes or in setting up regime changes. They view Syria as the place to firmly block the precedent they believe Libya created.

Oh man, Russia...

Why did you have to stop "Libya 2 Electric Boogaloo"?
I was looking forward to more wanton death and destruction in the name of democracy.

I don't disagree with Russia; I've always been a firm believer that poltiical change is best when it is brewed from within. If the Syrian people want change that badly, they can sort it out for themselves.

All too often in the West, we forget of the blood that has been the price for our own drastic political changes and we seem to think we can impose our ideals upon cultures that do not have a clue about the philosophical underpinnings of democratic principles.

The time for talking as passed, they passed when he started killing his own people.

Calmamity: Why you gotta be a dick like that, Russia?

You used to be cool. Cold, even.

Russia was never cool, but at least they used to have style and a world-class navy.

"Used to".

What's Russia's angle, here?

Business
/as usual

RevCarter: chknjetski: What's Russia's angle, here?

Russia is even slower to react to major global changes than the US is.

Russia has a lot of strategic and economic ties to Syria. Russia's only military port in the Mediterranean is in Syria. Plus long term, if the Assad regime is out of the picture, it becomes that much easier for the west to isolate Iran. If Iran is unable to stir up the middle east, it becomes more stable, which drives down the price of Russia's main exports, oil and weapons.

Arkanaut: Assad regime: "We're just conducting dialogue! Dialogued 40 protesters right in the face just last week!"

Heh. "Anyone else want to negotiate?"

Need space marines

It's either Farkistan or Douchebagistan, right?

Tomahawk513: Really? Russia?!

Of course. Russia has a vested interest in the current regime. Plus they kinda like the idea of authoritarianism without UN interference.

Some of the reasons may be:
- Russia has a large port in Syria (as stated in TFA)
- Russia delivered ammunition to the Syrian regime's force some weeks ago (they claimed they didn't do anything wrong here, just business)
- Syria has ordered 36 Yak fighter planes from Russia
- Syria is an old ally of Russia (read somewhere they stood by the USSR when it hadn't too much allies left)

Russia wants the international community "not to intervene", in other words they're sending the message "Hey Assad, maim and mangle that pesky opposition, Love, Russia". Nothing the UN can do about that, not even when the Arab League itself asks for it. While the rebellion might be of significant size, they do not stand much of a chance against an organized army. (Which is better equipped than the Lybian was).

So Russia will not give in, and possibly veto, unless some game changing event occurs (not likely), or the UN declaration is diluted to "blah blah, fighting bad, we don't agree, but you are free to continue your daily maiming after disposing of this letter". So not much Arab Spring happening there anytime soon I'm afraid.

/101 Keyboardist Arm Chair General reporting in

Canadia?

At least you can't say that the Russian people have not been warned.

Question: Wouldn't OPEC having an emergency meeting and the result would be increased oil production that effectively would drop the price of crude like a rock be an (eventual) FU to the Russians as an appropriate response?

This is what I honestly don't get :

If they want intervention.......WHY THE FARK DON'T THEY INTERVENE?

Sentient: Arkanaut: Assad regime: "We're just conducting dialogue! Dialogued 40 protesters right in the face just last week!"

Heh. "Anyone else want to negotiate?"

Syrians won't fight without a leader?

Never seen mentioned... What do the Russian people think of this?

It's OK when Arabs kill/oppress other Arabs. It's only an outrage if Israel kills Arabs trying to kill Israelies....

/that's the impression I get from international news...

Yomoxu: The far superior article in the New York Times (new window) makes it clear that Russia, with the quiet support of China and India, does not approve of regime change. Russia leads the faction that believes the Security Council has no role in settling domestic disputes or in setting up regime changes. They view Syria as the place to firmly block the precedent they believe Libya created.

Perhaps because they saw what a mess bringing democracy to Libya and Egypt turned was.

DirkValentine: This is what I honestly don't get :

If they want intervention.......WHY THE FARK DON'T THEY INTERVENE?

Arab governments are too busy keeping all their resources ready to do the exact same thing Syria is doing. Anything more than lip service is a precedent that not a single nation in that league would ever be willing to set.

Please don't be the US.
Please don't be the US.
Please don't be the US.

*clicks link*

Russia? WTH?

/also considered Isreal, but they probably don't want that crap going on either.

Jacobin: Syria's dictator is a murderous bastard.

I wonder what will happen when he's gone?

20 year civil war?

Democracy flowering in the Mideast?

Probably just the usual clusterfark.


This is an arab islamic middle eastern country. My bet is on islamic flavored clusterfark, the usual stuff.
And if the next dictator ruling body is not Alawi, the alawites (and Assad's extended family) are farked. I'm talking heads rolling in the streets farked.

Satanic_Hamster: Never seen mentioned... What do the Russian people think of this?

What part of 'Russia' didn't you understand?

tko78: I don't disagree with Russia; I've always been a firm believer that poltiical change is best when it is brewed from within. If the Syrian people want change that badly, they can sort it out for themselves.

Eh, its not as easy as it once was. When we had our revolution, the arms gap between civilian and soldier wasnt that large. With modern armories you can maintain control of a large population that wants you out with a small number of loyalists. To revolt, you basically have to have the support of the majority of the military at this point, which is difficult since the military is paid by the people in charge. If you do have the military on your side, they are probably just angling to take over themselves. Not to mention the fact the ruling party can just go all Khadaffi and hire out a massive foreign mercenary force for its military which is all but impossible to sway your direction unless you happen to have more money than they guy that controls all the money in your nation.