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(Pravda)   Russia's fifth-generation Sukhoi PAKFA T-50 fighter jet loses competition without battle   (english.pravda.ru ) divider line
    More: Interesting, PAKFA T-50, Russia, Izvestia, Republic of Korea Army, F-15, F-35, consumer rights  
•       •       •

22370 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Feb 2012 at 2:12 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-01 01:05:37 AM  
And by "top secret technology", they mean deftly and whole-heartedly copied from anything they could get their hands on from the Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassalt Raifiel, and American F22 and F35 Programs.
 
2012-02-01 04:44:06 AM  
So Pravda says "Russia didn't want to sell", when Russia didn't sell? Hell I was buying it until I noticed it was Pravda, so perhaps it could be true, but it just seems like state propaganda now. Anyway, whats with this Russia not willing to sell to US allies? 20 years have passed since the end of the Cold War but apparently we're still in it? Or, again, is it a state media thing? They've just had a set back, both in terms of a sale not going down, and more significantly from internal pressures mounting on the regime so they're resorting to the standard, age old outsider boogeyman? So they make it seem like they're keeping secrets from the world, when in fact their planes just weren't up to scratch? Though I find that surprising, because today in the western world it seems you could design a log and strap a wing to it, pay your local politician $5m to approve it and there you have the next gen log.
 
2012-02-01 01:41:44 PM  
No, no - you must think in Russian!
 
2012-02-01 02:16:28 PM  
"Secondly, Russia does not hope for victory."

Uh, so you entered the competition trying to lose? Mission accomplished?
 
2012-02-01 02:17:48 PM  

BronyMedic: And by "top secret technology", they mean deftly and whole-heartedly copied from anything they could get their hands on from the Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassalt Raifiel, and American F22 and F35 Programs.


Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal.

^ also applies to engineers.
 
2012-02-01 02:18:38 PM  
Translation, our new jet is sucking hind tit, and since we don't give shiat away anymore, we don't expect it to win.
 
2012-02-01 02:19:54 PM  
In post-soveat Russia, defense contract bids on you!

/bad spelling intentional to avoid rumored filter
 
2012-02-01 02:20:14 PM  
i.imgur.com

That sounds like a deep question.
 
2012-02-01 02:22:22 PM  
The only winning move is not to play.
 
2012-02-01 02:22:46 PM  
If I were in charge of America's State Department, I'd encourage the South Koreans to buy some of these so they can hook us up with a few for evaluation.

Reading between the lines here, I'm getting that these Russian fighters actually suck and are hopelessly far from being produced in enough numbers to fill a contract.
 
2012-02-01 02:23:38 PM  
I'll say one thing - while they do steal pretty much everything they can, they sure as hell do make a pretty plane.

/Su-27 is still one of the prettier ones out there. From a distance.
//Up close, the panels look ugly as hell.
 
2012-02-01 02:25:35 PM  
Drones are the future anyway.

/given what a clusterf*** the F-35 has been, wonder if they won't just skip ahead to the final step
//To the DOD: most-advanced technology, multi-purpose roles, and reliability - please pick TWO only
 
2012-02-01 02:26:07 PM  

Stabone33: /Su-27 is still one of the prettier ones out there. From a distance.
//Up close, the panels look ugly as hell.


A trait it shares with my girlfriend.
 
2012-02-01 02:28:50 PM  

Fuggin Bizzy: A trait it shares with my girlfriend.


Your girlfriend has panels?
 
2012-02-01 02:29:28 PM  
What the heck is "ultrasonic speed"? I've studied sub-sonic, super-sonic, and hyper-sonic flight regimes. Exactly how fast are these jets flying over Russia?
 
2012-02-01 02:32:06 PM  
South Korea: "Fine. You don't want to offer the T-50? We'll take 50 Berkut instead."

images.wikia.com
 
2012-02-01 02:32:37 PM  

maverickzy: What the heck is "ultrasonic speed"? I've studied sub-sonic, super-sonic, and hyper-sonic flight regimes. Exactly how fast are these jets flying over Russia?


ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2012-02-01 02:34:19 PM  

maverickzy: What the heck is "ultrasonic speed"? I've studied sub-sonic, super-sonic, and hyper-sonic flight regimes. Exactly how fast are these jets flying over Russia?


18 times the speed of light according to FOX news.
 
2012-02-01 02:34:26 PM  
maverickzy
What the heck is "ultrasonic speed"? I've studied sub-sonic, super-sonic, and hyper-sonic flight regimes. Exactly how fast are these jets flying over Russia?


That's where the plane is going so fast, it starts separating in to pieces. At Maximum Ultrasonic, the theory goes, the plane is actually a stream of high speed particles.

Of course, the Russian planes only achieve minimum Ultrasonic so the pieces are larger. Also, they haven't quite worked out the part where the plane slows down to subsonic and it reassembles itself.
 
2012-02-01 02:34:27 PM  

maverickzy: What the heck is "ultrasonic speed"? I've studied sub-sonic, super-sonic, and hyper-sonic flight regimes. Exactly how fast are these jets flying over Russia?


Faster than an abdominal sonogram!
 
2012-02-01 02:35:43 PM  

Stabone33: I'll say one thing - while they do steal pretty much everything they can, they sure as hell do make a pretty plane.

/Su-27 is still one of the prettier ones out there. From a distance.
//Up close, the panels look ugly as hell.


And do you know who else was ugly?
www.military-aircraft.org.uk

/Flying tank can fly.
//Soviet tank crews called this plane, "The Devil's Crucifix."
///Fitting.
 
2012-02-01 02:36:32 PM  
Drones are the future anyway.

/given what a clusterf*** the F-35 has been, wonder if they won't just skip ahead to the final step
//To the DOD: most-advanced technology, multi-purpose roles, and reliability - please pick TWO only

Not for Air to Air or Close Air Support in the near-future.

/can't cancel it with current force structure and allies buy in the disaster would be epic.
//You also forgot cheap....... Cheap also causes issues with all 3 of the above, you can do cheap if you are willing to look at people as expendable.
 
2012-02-01 02:37:11 PM  

ZackDanger: maverickzy: What the heck is "ultrasonic speed"? I've studied sub-sonic, super-sonic, and hyper-sonic flight regimes. Exactly how fast are these jets flying over Russia?

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]


That's pretty much what I was picturing. I imagine at some point it will hit a natural frequency and shake itself apart.

Leading to:

Harry Freakstorm: maverickzy
That's where the plane is going so fast, it starts separating in to pieces. At Maximum Ultrasonic, the theory goes, the plane is actually a stream of high speed particles.

Of course, the Russian planes only achieve minimum Ultrasonic so the pieces are larger. Also, they haven't quite worked out the part where the plane slows down to subsonic and it reassembles itself.

 
2012-02-01 02:37:23 PM  

Seth'n'Spectrum: Fuggin Bizzy: A trait it shares with my girlfriend.

Your girlfriend has panels?


Cyborg girlfriend. (new window)
 
2012-02-01 02:37:32 PM  
Now they got us chasing shadows....

/obsucure?
//probably not..
///This is fark..
 
2012-02-01 02:38:26 PM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: Stabone33: I'll say one thing - while they do steal pretty much everything they can, they sure as hell do make a pretty plane.

/Su-27 is still one of the prettier ones out there. From a distance.
//Up close, the panels look ugly as hell.

And do you know who else was ugly?
[www.military-aircraft.org.uk image 640x310]

/Flying tank can fly.
//Soviet tank crews called this plane, "The Devil's Crucifix."
///Fitting.


I've always liked that plane.
 
2012-02-01 02:39:32 PM  

maverickzy: What the heck is "ultrasonic speed"? I've studied sub-sonic, super-sonic, and hyper-sonic flight regimes. Exactly how fast are these jets flying over Russia?


Somewhere between Ludicrous Speed and Alert Level "Moving Pictures"
 
2012-02-01 02:40:39 PM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: Stabone33: I'll say one thing - while they do steal pretty much everything they can, they sure as hell do make a pretty plane.

/Su-27 is still one of the prettier ones out there. From a distance.
//Up close, the panels look ugly as hell.

And do you know who else was ugly?
[www.military-aircraft.org.uk image 640x310]

/Flying tank can fly.
//Soviet tank crews called this plane, "The Devil's Crucifix."
///Fitting.


Funny thing - just as I read that post a couple of A-10s buzzed my house.

/I live near Selfridge Air National Guard Base. Chinooks, F-16s, C-130s (or variants of same), and A-10s are regular sights to see.
 
2012-02-01 02:41:48 PM  
On the topic of Russia. I'm always bemused by RT / Russia Today that Russan News / TV channel that pops up in strange places, such as as one of 20 or so channels that were on the TV in the Hilton in Edinburgh last weekend for some odd reason. Anyway, the reason I'm bemused is because they actually have hard hitting and quite insightful journalism on many topics - until the topic turns to Russia itself or anything that is related to Russia (like Syria at the moment). Then it becomes bat-guano insane bizarro world nonsense. The journalists there (the western ones, that is) seem to be serious people who have come to the conclusion that their only way to get a job in the industry was to sign on the devil's line and accept an offer to work at putin's propaganda arm (make no mistake about it: RT is 100% kremlin) and so they do the obligatory russia puff pieces but then try to prove themselves as real journalists when they are given license to do other pieces. their russian masters dont mind this since it gives RT credibility too.
 
2012-02-01 02:43:16 PM  
Lead engineer on the Russian fighter jet design...

images.wikia.com
 
2012-02-01 02:43:55 PM  
Super #1 awesome Russian plane is number one 100%! Russian plane is fast like jungle cat, strong like Putin! All other planes are girl planes.
 
2012-02-01 02:44:06 PM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: //Soviet tank crews called this plane, "The Devil's Crucifix."


Ha! From Tom Clancy's fictional NATO/Warsaw Pact war in "Red Storm Rising", if that's the reference you're going for.

/because it looks like a Russian Orthodox cross
 
2012-02-01 02:44:33 PM  
F-15SE?

Holy shat, I thought they stopped making F-15 derivative airframes more than 10 years ago.
Quick scan of Wikipedia shows the F-15 variants will be around for another 13 years.


Summer Glau's Love Slave: And do you know who else was ugly?
[www.military-aircraft.org.uk image 640x310]

/Flying tank can fly.
//Soviet tank crews called this plane, "The Devil's Crucifix."
///Fitting.


That gives me wood. And I think you know what I mean.
 
2012-02-01 02:44:58 PM  
"The scale of the deal is unexampled for the country"

Is "unexampled" even a word?

(google).. why, yes it is. weird.
 
2012-02-01 02:45:03 PM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: Stabone33: I'll say one thing - while they do steal pretty much everything they can, they sure as hell do make a pretty plane.

/Su-27 is still one of the prettier ones out there. From a distance.
//Up close, the panels look ugly as hell.

And do you know who else was ugly?
[www.military-aircraft.org.uk image 640x310]

/Flying tank can fly.
//Soviet tank crews called this plane, "The Devil's Crucifix."
///Fitting.


Soviet tank crews never faced an a-10 in combat.
 
2012-02-01 02:45:17 PM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: Stabone33: I'll say one thing - while they do steal pretty much everything they can, they sure as hell do make a pretty plane.

/Su-27 is still one of the prettier ones out there. From a distance.
//Up close, the panels look ugly as hell.

And do you know who else was ugly?
[www.military-aircraft.org.uk image 640x310]

/Flying tank can fly.
//Soviet tank crews called this plane, "The Devil's Crucifix."
///Fitting.


that is a thing of beauty. probably my favorite fighter out today.
 
2012-02-01 02:46:14 PM  

Edsel: Summer Glau's Love Slave: //Soviet tank crews called this plane, "The Devil's Crucifix."

Ha! From Tom Clancy's fictional NATO/Warsaw Pact war in "Red Storm Rising", if that's the reference you're going for.

/because it looks like a Russian Orthodox cross


I knew that was crap from a Clancy book. Just knew it
 
2012-02-01 02:49:20 PM  

Evil Mackerel: Summer Glau's Love Slave: Stabone33: I'll say one thing - while they do steal pretty much everything they can, they sure as hell do make a pretty plane.

/Su-27 is still one of the prettier ones out there. From a distance.
//Up close, the panels look ugly as hell.

And do you know who else was ugly?
[www.military-aircraft.org.uk image 640x310]

/Flying tank can fly.
//Soviet tank crews called this plane, "The Devil's Crucifix."
///Fitting.

I've always liked that plane.


I was an Air Force cop back in '92, guarding the tarmac when the pilot came up to the plane. I saluted smartly, he showed me his badge to enter the area. Captain smiled and said good morning to me and I had to ask: "How much fun is it to fly this plane?" He looked at me and gave the biggest grin, "It's a hoot! The most fun with your clothes on."

/still jealous
 
2012-02-01 02:49:22 PM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: Stabone33:
/Flying tank can fly.
//Soviet tank crews called this plane, "The Devil's Crucifix."
///Fitting.


Well, Soviet tank crews in Clancy books did, anyway.

The Koreans won't get F-22s either, same reason. The USAF doesn't want the tech to be given away.
 
2012-02-01 02:49:32 PM  

Odd Bird: F-15SE?

Holy shat, I thought they stopped making F-15 derivative airframes more than 10 years ago.
Quick scan of Wikipedia shows the F-15 variants will be around for another 13 years.


I was also surprised, but looking it up it seems a quite-logical evolution of an incredibly capable airframe. Export only!
 
2012-02-01 02:51:04 PM  

Bomb Head Mohammed: On the topic of Russia. I'm always bemused by RT / Russia Today that Russan News / TV channel that pops up in strange places, such as as one of 20 or so channels that were on the TV in the Hilton in Edinburgh last weekend for some odd reason. Anyway, the reason I'm bemused is because they actually have hard hitting and quite insightful journalism on many topics - until the topic turns to Russia itself or anything that is related to Russia (like Syria at the moment). Then it becomes bat-guano insane bizarro world nonsense. The journalists there (the western ones, that is) seem to be serious people who have come to the conclusion that their only way to get a job in the industry was to sign on the devil's line and accept an offer to work at putin's propaganda arm (make no mistake about it: RT is 100% kremlin) and so they do the obligatory russia puff pieces but then try to prove themselves as real journalists when they are given license to do other pieces. their russian masters dont mind this since it gives RT credibility too.


I also love CCTV news - the Fed is under fire, sovereign debt crisis strikes Europe, Middle East is aflame! And meanwhile, in China, it's Parents' Day, where children pay tribute to their elders, awwwwww.. Now, let's take a look at the weather.
 
2012-02-01 02:55:09 PM  
Thats gotta piss off Kim Jong Duck Dong

/which is why the South is probably doing it
 
2012-02-01 02:58:02 PM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: And do you know who else was ugly?


nothin ugly about an A10
 
2012-02-01 02:58:17 PM  

Slaxl: So Pravda says "Russia didn't want to sell", when Russia didn't sell? Hell I was buying it until I noticed it was Pravda, so perhaps it could be true, but it just seems like state propaganda now. Anyway, whats with this Russia not willing to sell to US allies? 20 years have passed since the end of the Cold War but apparently we're still in it? Or, again, is it a state media thing? They've just had a set back, both in terms of a sale not going down, and more significantly from internal pressures mounting on the regime so they're resorting to the standard, age old outsider boogeyman? So they make it seem like they're keeping secrets from the world, when in fact their planes just weren't up to scratch? Though I find that surprising, because today in the western world it seems you could design a log and strap a wing to it, pay your local politician $5m to approve it and there you have the next gen log.


It's always been state propaganda. Pravda is staffed by a bunch of ex-Soviet state news writers.
 
2012-02-01 02:58:24 PM  
Perhaps it will be acceptable for Battlefield 4...
 
2012-02-01 03:00:06 PM  
Even if the Russians, Europeans, or Chinese built a plane that could compete with or surpass the F-22 and F-35 in terms of speed and maneuverability, they'll still be behind the US in the areas that count in modern air combat: electronics package and stealth capability.
 
2012-02-01 03:01:31 PM  
maverickzy:

What the heck is "ultrasonic speed"? I've studied sub-sonic, super-sonic, and hyper-sonic flight regimes. Exactly how fast are these jets flying over Russia?

I'm not sure, but all the instrument lights just turned plaid.

/ cannot have too many Spaceballs references.
 
2012-02-01 03:01:32 PM  
www.binbin.net
 
2012-02-01 03:03:35 PM  
Another hilarious "non-article" from Pravda.ru. Lol

The Sukhoi T-50 was not put up for consideration for two very good reasons:

1. It is not ready.

2. The Sukhoi knows full well that South Korea would not consider it. The US Congress gives $15 billion annually to S.K. in military aid alone. They do this in large part so S.K. can spend it with American manufacturers.

3. The Russian government would no sooner sell its most advanced fighter to a US ally than the US would sell the F-22 to the Russians or one of their allies.
 
2012-02-01 03:05:01 PM  

ActionJoe: 18 times the speed of light according to FOX news.


img215.imageshack.us

/Change facts that clash with your world view much?
 
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