In my opinion (having lived in Anchorage for twenty years), one can never have too many snowplows.

The point is we don't have the exact right number of snowplows for this exact moment. But of course the fat cats in city hall don't care about ensuring a dynamic snowplow quantity.

Put shovels on garbage trucks

That 2008 storm was horrible. Snowed 2+ feet and they neither plowed nor salted (even when it stayed below freezing for 2 weeks). At the time they had only 13 plows (rather than the 30 they have now apparently). SEATAC ran out of deicer 2 days before christmas.

The lack of salt means all the roads turn into wavy ruts of solid ice... unpleasant, even for a born and bread upstate NY driver.

I think I remember them saying they'd start salting when 2 buses slid down hills and busted through barriers onto I-5 in the same day (fark the salmon!)

It's fun living in libtard land!

Here in Iowa the expectation is that every city truck that will run will have a farking plow on it. My street was plowed one time last year by a guy in a Bobcat. That was the best because he didn't bury my driveway in three feet of snow.

When I lived in Illinois the city would run a big plow truck down the center of the street and there would be a pickup plow truck following him to get all the way to the gutter. They didn't stop for anything. And we liked it.

People in Seattle didn't say this, dumbmitter. The Atlantic did.

You have to read below the first line of the story.

I thought the point was to have extra so when one breaks you can just replace it.

drjekel_mrhyde: Put shovels on garbage trucks



Put them on tanks

At least with the most recent storm, snowplows weren't going to do jack against the ultra-mega ice storm that immediately followed the 8 inches of snow, then snowed a couple more inches on top of the ice (at least near Tacoma) Here's some shots I snapped around my yard, while I was stuck at home for a couple days:






Ice freezing on top of snow snapped at least a few limbs on almost every tree in the neighborhood.


Heck, even my weather station froze solid.

Smelly Pirate Hooker: People in Seattle didn't say this, dumbmitter. The Atlantic did.

You have to read below the first line of the story.

And shouldn't an organization named "Atlantic" publish some sort of disclaimer before commenting on Pacific-area cities?

I don't get what The Atlantic even means with this article...in 2008 we had 13 plows in Seattle, now we have 14..is the right number 13.5? 13.7?

TFA: I lived there during its 1996 "Storm of the Century," and the city was paralyzed. Major streets remained unplowed for days, with cars abandoned randomly. Military Humvees were about the only thing on the road. Emergency officials sent out pleas for people to donate use of four-wheel-drive vehicles.

That happens in cities with any number of plows. Eventually there can be just too much snow.

SeattleSeven: I don't get what The Atlantic even means with this article...in 2008 we had 13 plows in Seattle, now we have 14..is the right number 13.5? 13.7?

Almost.

You can never have too many snowplows...


/hot

BlueJay206: You can never have too many snowplows...
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/hot

Plows don't really help for freezing rain. You need sand and salt trucks.

BlueJay206: You can never have too many snowplows...
[farm4.static.flickr.com image 500x388]
[post.thestranger.com image 500x375]
/hot

That clusterfark happened 4 blocks from where I live.

I don't blame the first driver too much - an out of towner falling the directions given for when Denny Street is closed (yes this street should have been closed too, but still). The 2nd bus though? That dumb motherfarker deserved serious shiat for nearly causing that first bus to go over onto I-5. If the 2nde bus had waited to see if the 1st bus made it, he would have seen that it was not a good idea and tried something else. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

I remember living in Seattle in 2000-2003. We had eight inches of snow in one storm. Folks abandoned their cars on I5. It was surreal having moved from Detroit where 36 inches was the norm. Just got out of their cars and walked away. It looked like scenes from The Walking Dead.

One Bad Apple: BlueJay206: You can never have too many snowplows...
[farm4.static.flickr.com image 500x388]
[post.thestranger.com image 500x375]
/hot

Plows don't really help for freezing rain. You need sand and salt trucks.

Abso-friggin'-lutely. And having a plow truck, or detachable blades to be fitted to city equipment in a snow emergency is only half the battle... you need people who know how the farkin' equipment works, too. Go up to Columbus, Cleveland or Dayton, their fleets will plow the hell out of the roads in short order with the salt/sand trucks right behind'em and do it almost perfectly every time. Down here in Chesapeake, though, the city garage got the angle wrong on the plows, so almost every road had massive chunks of asphalt ripped out.

/10+ years fleet experience

ZAZ: Snow plows per square mile per inch of snow per season is not a good metric. Plowing time per length of road changes little over a range of snowfall in a single storm. How many moderate storms per year and how long are you willing to wait for secondary roads to be clear?

Exactly.

MisterTweak: lenfromak: In my opinion (having lived in Anchorage for twenty years), one can never have too many snowplows.

You are incorrect. My 15 years in Houston has shown conclusively that the correct number of snowplows per city is "zero".

Now, air conditioners, we need a sh*tload more of those puppies...

How about we build a giant heat-duct system between the two cities? Set it up so it takes ~6 months for the transfer between the two.

Alright, I might be naive here, but wtf are you people doing trying to plant crops in the farking snow?!

They should hire the Top Gear Dominator for snow. Too bad there is no farming there, otherwise they would be set.

Actually the article on The Atlantic talks about cities across the US, includes reasonable quotes about plowing, mentions Seattle has 30 of the things, and notes that various residents are going to biatch no matter how many plows you operate.

ZAZ: Snow plows per square mile per inch of snow per season is not a good metric. Plowing time per length of road changes little over a range of snowfall in a single storm. How many moderate storms per year and how long are you willing to wait for secondary roads to be clear?

I'd look more at 'miles of road needing plowed times the number of storms necessetating plowing'. Maybe have a modifier for storms heavy/long enough to need plowing multiple times.

It doesn't matter how many snow plows we have. They do not scrape the roads bare. They hover the plows over the road surface so you end up with a layer of packed ice and snow. This is marginally driveable if the air is cold and you don't need to traverse a steep hill (in Seattle, ha!). The real fun begins with this layer of packed snow and ice starts to melt. It can be impossible to drive up the slightest of inclines for a few days.

It's easy to drive in the east in winter. I did it for 30 years and never even owned a set of farking snow tires. You have salt, salt, and real plowing. We have virtually nothing. If it falls from the sky, we have to drive on it. Sometimes up or down hundreds of feet at a time.

I know it sounds laughable but six inches of snow is honestly enough to paralyze the city in the right conditions.

Jument: I know it sounds laughable but six inches of snow is honestly enough to paralyze the city in the right conditions.

In the right conditions, you don't even need the snow - a good ice storm will shut you down.

Let the bears pay the bear tax. I pay the homer tax.

I was in Seattle for a conference in early 2004 after one of their bigger winter storms had hit the area, and I could not believe how little snow removal and street clearing had been done. It was unbelievable.

Just so people can get an idea of what Seattle has to deal with, this is the angle of many of the streets in downtown



You don't get this change in elevation in NYC

Pepperjack: I remember living in Seattle in 2000-2003. We had eight inches of snow in one storm. Folks abandoned their cars on I5. It was surreal having moved from Detroit where 36 inches was the norm. Just got out of their cars and walked away. It looked like scenes from The Walking Dead.

Everybody gets snowed in some-tiiiiiiiiimes

/so hold on

leonel: Just so people can get an idea of what Seattle has to deal with, this is the angle of many of the streets in downtown

[dazzlingplaces.com image 515x344]

You don't get this change in elevation in NYC

Pittsburgh smiles and pats Seattle on the head

This is a shiatty metric for Seattle. The question should be how many of those snow plows can also spread salt, sand, and/or de-icing fluid. I'm betting near 100% of them. That's the real use for them. Of course after you bought the truck, the salt spreader for it, etc then you might as well buy the plow mount. So they count as snow plows, but the main reason for purchase was their ability to spread chemicals, salt or sand.

ha-ha-guy: This is a shiatty metric for Seattle. The question should be how many of those snow plows can also spread salt, sand, and/or de-icing fluid. I'm betting near 100% of them. That's the real use for them. Of course after you bought the truck, the salt spreader for it, etc then you might as well buy the plow mount. So they count as snow plows, but the main reason for purchase was their ability to spread chemicals, salt or sand.

Sand only... chemicals and salt are unfriendly to the salmon streams. I am not joking, I'm pretty sure they passed a law about it in recent years.

Oh and also Chicago is a city to compare Seattle to. Midwestern cities tend to be better at snow removal (although Ann Arbor sucks at it for some reason) since they get more practice. Additionally suburban and rural families often own at least one AWD or 4x4 vehicle with a high ground clearance so they can handle not being plowed out for awhile. Plus you just plain consider it normal to have some canned goods, a jug or two of water, and maybe even an a generator squirreled away for a snowy day. This allows the government to focus on clearing the city centers and highways first since the rest of us can slog around in the 4x4 for a day or two if needed.

Areas that tend not to get the snow just plain go to shiat when it hits and everyone is screaming for a plow ASAP. I know I might not see a plow for 48 to 72 hours and have planned accordingly.

drjekel_mrhyde: Put shovels on garbage trucks

Not totally possible. For one you'd have to redo the front suspension on all the vehicles and train the drivers how to operate the blade's hydraulics. Nevermind the pissing match you'd get with various city's garbage collectors (the remaining cities that haven't contracted this out anyway) and the Public Works guys who normally drive the plows.

drjekel_mrhyde: Put shovels on garbage trucks

They're separate unions. It would never happen here.
Snowplows aren't going to do sh*t for all the ice we had and the damage from it.

Moonk: leonel: Just so people can get an idea of what Seattle has to deal with, this is the angle of many of the streets in downtown

[dazzlingplaces.com image 515x344]

You don't get this change in elevation in NYC

Pittsburgh smiles and pats Seattle on the head

Seattle doesn't make you want to blow your brains out quite as rapidly as being in Pittsburgh does. Not even cupcakes and cafes can make that turnpike tumor less unpleasant.

Joshie: Moonk: leonel: Just so people can get an idea of what Seattle has to deal with, this is the angle of many of the streets in downtown

[dazzlingplaces.com image 515x344]

You don't get this change in elevation in NYC

Pittsburgh smiles and pats Seattle on the head

Seattle doesn't make you want to blow your brains out quite as rapidly as being in Pittsburgh does. Not even cupcakes and cafes can make that turnpike tumor less unpleasant.

i do not doubt that. Pittsburgh, for all its recent advances is damn depressing

Salt your road, retards.

Love, Wisconsin.

Denver solved that problem. They don't plow.

It's not the farking snow. It's the snow falling at 33 to 34 degrees for a couple hours with a 10 to 15 degree plunge to 20 degrees in the course of 30 minutes causing a flash freeze for everything.

Molavian: Salt your road, retards.

Love, Wisconsin.

And kill off farmland, like it was before? Yeah, the farmers in the area downstream from the city really loved that one...

The storm that hit us was a disaster that we haven't seen in a good long while. There were areas I could stand on top of the snow thanks to how much ice had built up on it from the ice storm. Factor in the point that western washington has a metric farkload more trees per mile than most any place on the east coast and you're in for a really bad time no matter how you look at it.

/couldn't go anywhere even if he wanted to thanks to the quarter-inch thick sheet of ice encasing his truck

Blue Jay that is my friend's house on the corner of those buses. I lived down the street. I absolutely loved the "snow in". Seattle is on a large sound so the snow is usually pretty temperate. The problem is the hilly terrain. But being in the only one in my condo complex full of retirees with a 4x4 I had an absolute blast making grocery runs and other important misssions down the street. It wasn't a crisis. It was a blast having something stick for once. I would have loved to have been there over the past few weeks. I hate Texas.

leonel: Just so people can get an idea of what Seattle has to deal with, this is the angle of many of the streets in downtown

[dazzlingplaces.com image 515x344]

You don't get this change in elevation in NYC

That's one of the more moderate inclines too.

In Wisconsin and Minnesota where I lived for a time. The roads used to be clear (as in bare pavement) in a day or so...I think? But you generally didn't drive on actual compacted snow unless you were really off in the woods or something.

Why doesn't that happen here?

/mainly curious, not sure why it's different.