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(Mother Jones)   Defense Security: "The President decides who is a terrorist and if they should be killed". Keyboard commandos outraged, delete any pre-2009 comments agreeing with this concept   (motherjones.com) divider line 335
    More: Scary, CIA Director Leon Panetta, obama, Scott Pelley, Hellfire missile, United States Secretary of Defense, imminent threat, Mark Hosenball, commandos  
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2023 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Jan 2012 at 11:03 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-31 02:15:37 AM  
As long as we can trust the President, I'm fine with it. That we can't always trust the President, this is a power they should not have. They're just sh*tting all over Executive Order 12333:

Part 2.11 of this executive order reiterates a proscription on US intelligence agencies sponsoring or carrying out an assassination. It reads:[5]

No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination.


Seems pretty f*cking clear. Too bad any executive can override that order.
 
2012-01-31 08:04:53 AM  
Defense Security?
 
2012-01-31 09:35:19 AM  
Sounds more like Offense Security
 
2012-01-31 09:45:39 AM  
De-fence security?
www.gamesmonitor.org.uk
 
2012-01-31 10:20:02 AM  
We went over this when the USA PATRIOT Act was passed. Now people suddenly care. Fark you all, go back to sleep.
 
2012-01-31 10:24:06 AM  

Sleeping Monkey: Sounds more like Offense Security


The best defense is a good Predator Drone program.
 
2012-01-31 10:24:38 AM  

Jake Havechek: We went over this when the USA PATRIOT Act was passed. Now people suddenly care. Fark you all, go back to sleep.


Translation: "Now that it's my team, I no longer care."
 
2012-01-31 10:26:52 AM  

I_C_Weener: Jake Havechek: We went over this when the USA PATRIOT Act was passed. Now people suddenly care. Fark you all, go back to sleep.

Translation: "Now that it's my team, I no longer care."


No, You assholes were warned about this and nobody cared, where did I say I didn't care? Pull your head out of your farking assi
 
2012-01-31 10:27:33 AM  
Obama has greatly disappointed me in the realm of civil liberties. If there was a viable alternative, I would gladly change my vote this fall.

/but there isn't
 
2012-01-31 10:30:17 AM  

NewportBarGuy: As long as we can trust the President, I'm fine with it. That we can't always trust the President, this is a power they should not have. They're just sh*tting all over Executive Order 12333:

Part 2.11 of this executive order reiterates a proscription on US intelligence agencies sponsoring or carrying out an assassination. It reads:[5]

No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination.

Seems pretty f*cking clear. Too bad any executive can override that order.


I'd argue that executive order is loosely defined unless you know what definition of assassination applies in that context. Head of state? Head of state in peacetime? "Prominent" person, whatever that means? Random non-US citizen? Random non-US citizen who is known to be a terrorist? Anyone the government decides is a terrorist? It's not mentioned anywhere in the full version of that Executive Order. Anyone know?
 
2012-01-31 10:31:09 AM  
Too bad everybody rolled over and became pussies terrified of terrorists when Bush instituted this stuff, huh?
 
2012-01-31 10:33:05 AM  

Jake Havechek: I_C_Weener: Jake Havechek: We went over this when the USA PATRIOT Act was passed. Now people suddenly care. Fark you all, go back to sleep.

Translation: "Now that it's my team, I no longer care."

No, You assholes were warned about this and nobody cared, where did I say I didn't care? Pull your head out of your farking assi


Where did I say I didn't care then or now? Nice name calling though. You ability to argue coherently is only slightly worse than your failure to enlighten with new and better insults.
 
2012-01-31 10:46:06 AM  

I_C_Weener: Nice name calling though. You ability to argue coherently is only slightly worse than your failure to enlighten with new and better insults.


To be fair, I think by "you assholes" he meant "Republican voters and those who otherwise enable the destructive policies of the Republican Party", a group you frequently give the impression of being a member of, and for the most part he's absolutely right.
 
2012-01-31 10:46:42 AM  
Look, this is distracting from the attention whoring, er assault on religion, er controversy that the Catholic Church is raising over being required to cover birth control in health plans. Also, I'm pretty sure Lindsey Lohan or one of the Kardahsians did something. Or maybe they did nothing.. either way, celebrity news is also real important
 
2012-01-31 10:48:02 AM  

I_C_Weener: Jake Havechek: We went over this when the USA PATRIOT Act was passed. Now people suddenly care. Fark you all, go back to sleep.

Translation: "Now that it's my team, I no longer care."


It's a subtle b-b-but Bush!

/Good thing Obama put an end to the Patriot Act.
 
2012-01-31 10:51:04 AM  

muck4doo: I_C_Weener: Jake Havechek: We went over this when the USA PATRIOT Act was passed. Now people suddenly care. Fark you all, go back to sleep.

Translation: "Now that it's my team, I no longer care."

It's a subtle b-b-but Bush!

/Good thing Obama put an end to the Patriot Act.


Or that a nearly unanimous Congress voted to give the president unlimited power to wage war. RON PAUL!
 
2012-01-31 11:05:55 AM  

I_C_Weener: muck4doo: I_C_Weener: Jake Havechek: We went over this when the USA PATRIOT Act was passed. Now people suddenly care. Fark you all, go back to sleep.

Translation: "Now that it's my team, I no longer care."

It's a subtle b-b-but Bush!

/Good thing Obama put an end to the Patriot Act.

Or that a nearly unanimous Congress voted to give the president unlimited power to wage war. RON PAUL!


All the more reason to never vote Republican.
 
2012-01-31 11:08:08 AM  

Jake Havechek: We went over this when the USA PATRIOT Act was passed. Now people suddenly care. Fark you all, go back to sleep.


step away from the window?
 
2012-01-31 11:09:53 AM  

muck4doo: It's a subtle b-b-but Bush!


/thread
 
2012-01-31 11:10:54 AM  

muck4doo: I_C_Weener: Jake Havechek: We went over this when the USA PATRIOT Act was passed. Now people suddenly care. Fark you all, go back to sleep.

Translation: "Now that it's my team, I no longer care."

It's a subtle b-b-but Bush!

/Good thing Obama put an end to the Patriot Act.


If he tried, you clowns would say he's soft on terrorism. The USA PATRIOT Act should never have been passed.
 
2012-01-31 11:13:10 AM  
If Nixon had this amount of power, he'd have been office for eight years.
 
2012-01-31 11:13:13 AM  

Jake Havechek: Too bad everybody rolled over and became pussies terrified of terrorists when Bush instituted this stuff, huh?


There were plenty of Farkers, conservatives included, that were against the Patriot act and other expanses of the executive branch.
 
2012-01-31 11:14:04 AM  
Thank you right wingers for your never ending stream of pants-shiatting fear of terrorists. A decade later, you are the gift that keeps on giving.

OBM is probably laughing in his grave. He's dead, but that one attack is still kicking democracy's ass.
 
2012-01-31 11:15:12 AM  
Once an administration opens up a Pandora's Box that makes it LEGAL for the Executive to wiretap, detain, incarcerate and spy on its' own citizens, EVERY single subsequent administration is going to use that power for its' own purposes.

I mean, the Patriot Act is never going to be un-signed. There's not going to be a day when the US government announces "We win! The war on terror is over! Let's go back to making it illegal for the government to ignore our rights when it's convenient for them! Woohoo!".
 
2012-01-31 11:15:45 AM  

NewportBarGuy: Seems pretty f*cking clear. Too bad any executive can override that order.


Assassination implies non-military action. These are killing authorized under the 9/11 AUMF.

chimp_ninja: It's not mentioned anywhere in the full version of that Executive Order. Anyone know?


One would imagine it applies to any targeted killing by the executive without judicial approval (via trial and conviction) or congressional approval (via declaration of war, specific statutory authorization, etc). The vagueness of the definition is a trick to cover as much as possible; specific restrictions are easily gotten around.
 
2012-01-31 11:15:58 AM  
not even the star chamber could sentence people to death.

/and this has f*ck all to do with the patriot act (which passed 98-1 in the senate). that's just an attempt to pass the buck for this to anyone but the guy in the whitehouse doing the assassinating.
 
2012-01-31 11:16:14 AM  

Jake Havechek: If he tried, you clowns would say he's soft on terrorism. The USA PATRIOT Act should never have been passed.


So its all assholes and clowns today? I agree with your asshole clown mouth too. And yet, there is no effort to remove it.
 
2012-01-31 11:16:14 AM  

jakomo002: I mean, the Patriot Act is never going to be un-signed.


You're absolutely right. It will never be un-signed... because that's not a real thing.
 
2012-01-31 11:17:42 AM  
You know, I have plenty of problems with that statement, but I also agree that nobody on the right has the right to say anything about this statement. If Obama was a Republican, and you know, white, there would be zero protest from the right about this. Hell, they'd be cheering it.

Which basically leaves only people like me to denounce the fact that the President has NO right, NONE, to order the death of people without trying them, when they are not actively fighting Americans. That is not how the world's rules work.
 
2012-01-31 11:19:02 AM  

GAT_00: Which basically leaves only people like me to denounce the fact that the President has NO right, NONE, to order the death of people without trying them, when they are not actively fighting Americans. That is not how the world's rules work.


Does this include bombing Taliban supply depots?
 
2012-01-31 11:19:36 AM  
Lulz

I_C_Weener answers to the name "asshole".
 
2012-01-31 11:22:11 AM  
actualhuman; You're absolutely right. It will never be un-signed... because that's not a real thing.

Sure it is. The US has unsigned a bunch of treaties. Canada too. We just unsigned Kyoto a few weeks back.
 
2012-01-31 11:23:06 AM  

sprawl15: Does this include bombing Taliban supply depots?


How is it that you can't see that's not the same thing? Al-Awlaki was in no way an immediate threat. There is zero reason, none, that he could not have been tracked down and put on trial. If he was what everyone says he was, then the trial would be a slam dunk and he would be executed.
 
2012-01-31 11:23:13 AM  
I'm all in favor in making war on individuals. It's practical now that we have precision weapons. I'd rather we killed leaders than make war on populations.

If I was running things, I'd neutralize Iran's air defenses (or whoever else is threatening us), then fly Drones over the country all day long, taking out any Mercedes car, or helicopter, or government official out in the open. Not a massive effort, just a persistent, non-stop, effort. Far better than invasions, sanctions, etc. When the ruling class has to spend all its time hiding, and not having ANY fun being in charge, they'll make a deal. And the population doesn't have to suffer. Simples.

/Chavez? Dead!
//Makmood Imanutjob? Dead!
///Mugabe? Dead!
 
2012-01-31 11:23:59 AM  

I_C_Weener: Sleeping Monkey: Sounds more like Offense Security

The best defense is a good Predator Drone program.


I suggested that to my local high school football team, and they looked at me like I was crazy.
 
2012-01-31 11:24:36 AM  
You mean Defense Security Leo Panini?
 
2012-01-31 11:24:50 AM  

GAT_00: sprawl15: Does this include bombing Taliban supply depots?

How is it that you can't see that's not the same thing?


You're jumping to a false conclusion.

Answer the question.
 
2012-01-31 11:25:07 AM  

GAT_00: You know, I have plenty of problems with that statement, but I also agree that nobody on the right has the right to say anything about this statement. If Obama was a Republican, and you know, white, there would be zero protest from the right about this. Hell, they'd be cheering it.

Which basically leaves only people like me to denounce the fact that the President has NO right, NONE, to order the death of people without trying them, when they are not actively fighting Americans. That is not how the world's rules work.


sure, the only possible objections someone that is to the right of you on the political spectrum could possibly have against presidential hit squads targeting american citizens without trial are based on their racism. thanks for the contribution.
 
2012-01-31 11:25:10 AM  
This is one of those things that mixes my head up and it's difficult to explain without making people angry. (Male input re: a specific abortion being another)


Here's my best shot: It's like the death penalty. I don't like it. I don't think it is the government's position to be killing it's people. However, there are times that, if we are practitioners, it is administrable. [murky soft amorphous words chosen intentionally]

I don't like the US participating in assassinations. However, if we are doing it... then assassinating a leader of a foreign party who has openly admitted to planning and participating in events that lead to the deaths of American citizens and soldiers and to openly discussing plans for future events.
 
2012-01-31 11:25:20 AM  

GAT_00: sprawl15: Does this include bombing Taliban supply depots?

How is it that you can't see that's not the same thing? Al-Awlaki was in no way an immediate threat. There is zero reason, none, that he could not have been tracked down and put on trial. If he was what everyone says he was, then the trial would be a slam dunk and he would be executed.


How about Osama? Was he also murdered by the evil Obama Regime of Death?
 
2012-01-31 11:26:29 AM  
I'm saying nothing. I like the President. I like all Presidents.
 
2012-01-31 11:27:26 AM  

I_C_Weener: Jake Havechek: We went over this when the USA PATRIOT Act was passed. Now people suddenly care. Fark you all, go back to sleep.

Translation: "Now that it's my team, I no longer care."


Technically isn't it; now that it is Fartbongo's team, libs don't care and GOP does the 180 and it is an outrage?
 
2012-01-31 11:27:36 AM  

DarwiOdrade: You mean Defense Security Leon Panini Pancetta?

 
2012-01-31 11:27:42 AM  
I remember when stuff like this would get the president labeled a nazi.

Now it gets . . . the previous president labeled a nazi.

I wonder what changed.
 
2012-01-31 11:28:53 AM  

jakomo002: actualhuman; You're absolutely right. It will never be un-signed... because that's not a real thing.

Sure it is. The US has unsigned a bunch of treaties. Canada too. We just unsigned Kyoto a few weeks back.


*faceplam* Unsigned is not a verb.
 
2012-01-31 11:29:09 AM  

stebain: This is one of those things that mixes my head up and it's difficult to explain without making people angry.


Wow, you're... me.

In principle, I don't like the President having the power to order someone killed. In practice, if you tell me that an American citizen who self-identified as a member of Al-Qaeda played catch with a Hellfire from a Predator, I'm not going to even write a strongly worded email to the White House.

I'm not OK with it, but... I'm kinda OK with it.
 
2012-01-31 11:29:27 AM  

sprawl15: GAT_00: sprawl15: Does this include bombing Taliban supply depots?

How is it that you can't see that's not the same thing?

You're jumping to a false conclusion.

Answer the question.


And you're jumping to a false equivalence and demanding I answer a question with no relevance, though a nice strawman.

Philip Francis Queeg: How about Osama? Was he also murdered by the evil Obama Regime of Death?


He should have also been brought back and put on trial. It's even easier to prove that since we actually had him.

relcec: sure, the only possible objections someone that is to the right of you on the political spectrum could possibly have against presidential hit squads targeting american citizens without trial are based on their racism. thanks for the contribution.


Because anyone to the right of me wouldn't have a single problem if it was a Republican. Please don't pretend that is anything but the truth.
 
2012-01-31 11:29:32 AM  

A Dark Evil Omen: DarwiOdrade: You mean Defense Security Leon Panini Pancetta Bruschetta?


/hungry
 
2012-01-31 11:30:21 AM  

monoski: I_C_Weener: Jake Havechek: We went over this when the USA PATRIOT Act was passed. Now people suddenly care. Fark you all, go back to sleep.

Translation: "Now that it's my team, I no longer care."

Technically isn't it; now that it is Fartbongo's team, libs don't care and GOP does the 180 and it is an outrage?


Yep. But I've been consistent.
 
2012-01-31 11:31:56 AM  

Gonz: stebain: This is one of those things that mixes my head up and it's difficult to explain without making people angry.

Wow, you're... me.

In principle, I don't like the President having the power to order someone killed. In practice, if you tell me that an American citizen who self-identified as a member of Al-Qaeda played catch with a Hellfire from a Predator, I'm not going to even write a strongly worded email to the White House.

I'm not OK with it, but... I'm kinda OK with it.


Yep. It just isn't right...except for when it is applied the right way. Same with OBL. It was an execution not an arrest. Wrong? Yes. Right? Also yes.
 
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