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(Kurzweil AI)   If this guy is right, the MPAA/RIAA are totally screwed because everyone can have their own private Internet   (kurzweilai.net) divider line 56
    More: Cool, RIAA, MPAA, intranets, Inter-process communication, freedom of thought, smallpox, ISPs, Ian Pearson  
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9448 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Jan 2012 at 7:07 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-30 05:06:35 PM
Apparently the singularity has driven him back in time, to the days when bangpaths ruled the world.
 
2012-01-30 05:11:03 PM
Not that it's a bad idea to keep ideas like that circulating around, mind you; networked communication doesn't NEED to be all consumers on leaves begging for access to content on centrally-controlled, highly specialized, co-optable, hubs.
 
2012-01-30 06:21:45 PM
It's not news, it's Farknet?
 
2012-01-30 06:38:31 PM
Pffft. I have a whole drawer of those nets and they haven't done me a bit of good.
 
2012-01-30 06:40:54 PM
Shadowrun 4th edition (and Eclipse phase) explore the concept of 'personal area networks' and entopic displays (i.e. Augmented Reality). If that technology ever becomes economically viable then there's gonna be a LOT of unhappy people in Hollywood.

That said, augmented reality MMO games would totally kick ass.
 
2012-01-30 07:02:01 PM

Sliding Carp: Apparently the singularity has driven him back in time, to the days when bangpaths ruled the world.


It's not even that complicated (or simple, depending on your viewpoint). He's essentially talking about how internet routing works today anyways, provided the packets are encrypted.
 
2012-01-30 07:09:18 PM
Slightly related. Is DCCnet still around?
 
2012-01-30 07:09:31 PM
We're going back to Hotline?
 
2012-01-30 07:13:57 PM

Weaver95: Shadowrun 4th edition (and Eclipse phase) explore the concept of 'personal area networks' and entopic displays (i.e. Augmented Reality). If that technology ever becomes economically viable then there's gonna be a LOT of unhappy people in Hollywood.

That said, augmented reality MMO games would totally kick ass.


you forgot data pools from CP3

*cough*

*looks around*

Yes, I like CP3, okay? Don't any of you dare judge me...
 
2012-01-30 07:15:31 PM

Weaver95: That said, augmented reality MMO games would totally kick ass.


I am witnessing a scene in which LARP players are actually hacking away and throwing lightning bolts at an ogre in a city park. At least they're active, I guess?

I don't mind the idea of AR, but I probably will not adopt it. I just know that, once integration is commercially viable (beyond just pointing your phone's camera at something and seeing a projection on its screen), we'll just end up being inundated by advertising everywhere. No thanks - I do my best to stay unplugged as it stands, I don't want to hear about whatever sale is going on or whatever new movie is in theaters just because I glanced at an otherwise unassuming wall.

I suppose Noscript, Adblock equivalents will exist even in AR.
 
2012-01-30 07:16:42 PM
Man, it's old fart day here on fark. All sorts of ancient standards I haven't heard in years. Protocols of the learned elders of the internet, you might say.
/remembers the net before the web
//before my lawn got crowded. Y'all can bumble around.
 
2012-01-30 07:26:17 PM
Save me from the wannabes. Exactly what do you think will happen when the government makes wearing this "jewelry" illegal? In the day and age of indefinite detention, do you really want to try it?

Farking idiots. If you don't want the government to take down the internet, then get your ass to the voting booth and vote for the candidates that will reduce the power and scope of government. It's not going to happen because it would mean your welfare check evaporating as well. Well, wah. I have little pity for people that didn't understand that a government big enough to give you everything is big enough to take it away as well.
 
2012-01-30 07:28:09 PM
 
d3
2012-01-30 07:30:20 PM
There was a talk at DEFCON 19 this year that covered the same idea. But it involved developing an app for smartphones to do the job. The usefulness was both for disasters (like Katrina to get urgent messages out to medical personnel that might be near by and able to help) and Arab Spring type protests.

They were looking for ideas on how to make the routing happen and people interested to develop the app.
 
2012-01-30 07:30:22 PM
Presently, anyone who wants to can construct a whole network on top of the Internet, hiding all traffic from anyone who isn't 'allowed' into the loop. These Networks could be dynamically created and destroyed with all kinds of novel architectures and protocols that don't even look like protocols.

DARPAnet was too good at its job. Its job was to create a communications network that could sustain major outages (think Nuclear strikes on most hubs) and still manage to find a way to route data. Its multi-layered structure means that you can put any other 'network' on top of the ip stack and make the packets unreadable to any interceptor.

Trying to halt DNS is futile - people who want to pirate would switch to an alternate form of authority, and will erect their own DNS systems that are without a SOA, and simply run on 'consensus'.
 
2012-01-30 07:31:21 PM
His net idea is based on sharing. Everybody thinks sharing is good when somebody else is doing the sharing.
 
2012-01-30 07:33:04 PM
Are they going back to Sneakernet?
 
2012-01-30 07:36:35 PM

millia: Man, it's old fart day here on fark. All sorts of ancient standards I haven't heard in years. Protocols of the learned elders of the internet, you might say.
/remembers the net before the web
//before my lawn got crowded. Y'all can bumble around.


Ahh, bulletin boards, Z-modem, Q-modem, phone couplers and 300 modems. Man I remember when 56k modems came out, not too long after the 14400's. We were cooking then.

All night downloads for porn, and the resulting phone bill because you connected to the wrong exchange.

Good times.
 
2012-01-30 07:42:09 PM

unyon: Sliding Carp: Apparently the singularity has driven him back in time, to the days when bangpaths ruled the world.

It's not even that complicated (or simple, depending on your viewpoint). He's essentially talking about how internet routing works today anyways, provided the packets are encrypted.


I thought point of the article was that didn't need to use encryption because each packet was routed differently, and it was impossible for an outsider to intercept ll packets.

Is the headline correct? Could you/the next MegaUpload simply set up unique one-time networks for everyone as a way of denying culpability?
 
2012-01-30 07:42:58 PM

rubi_con_man: Presently, anyone who wants to can construct a whole network on top of the Internet, hiding all traffic from anyone who isn't 'allowed' into the loop. These Networks could be dynamically created and destroyed with all kinds of novel architectures and protocols that don't even look like protocols.

DARPAnet was too good at its job. Its job was to create a communications network that could sustain major outages (think Nuclear strikes on most hubs) and still manage to find a way to route data. Its multi-layered structure means that you can put any other 'network' on top of the ip stack and make the packets unreadable to any interceptor.

Trying to halt DNS is futile - people who want to pirate would switch to an alternate form of authority, and will erect their own DNS systems that are without a SOA, and simply run on 'consensus'.


I have been asking the question for years: How to eliminate DNS?

The problem with any centralized system is that it is a single point of failure. In the case of Free Speech, that mean government seizure of the DNS servers.This is similar to the same failing centralized planning in economies have, or corporations for that matter. A central authority can never know enough to make all the decisions needed, but it can try to oppress options to the point it has to make few, or no decisions.

An open network, without the need for a central authority like DNS servers is needed. The problem is how to design is. With the idea of a DNS server stuck in our heads it is difficult to think of an alternative.

Add to this, that there needs to be a way for anonymous communication as well.
 
2012-01-30 07:44:42 PM
did anyone else page formatting go all kerfluey? Or is my new laptop farking with me?

/it's DHS, I know it is
 
2012-01-30 07:47:56 PM
Must of been my laptop. Or it's time to check out improvements in Chrome because Firefox is starting to let me down.

/Hate having to switch browsers to look at popular mechanics.
 
2012-01-30 07:50:37 PM
What about my own private Idaho?
 
2012-01-30 07:50:46 PM

Sliding Carp: Apparently the singularity has driven him back in time, to the days when bangpaths ruled the world.


Dammit, I'm not the King geek on FARK.. Yet
 
2012-01-30 07:51:31 PM
Battery powered web/media server.
 
2012-01-30 07:58:15 PM
I've been wondering of there was a way to leverage the Wifi on my routers to network with my neighbors. Do enough of that and you could create a kind-of cool network.

/Would require wireless cards as well as hotspots in each location.
//would probably be horribly inefficient.
 
2012-01-30 08:04:32 PM
Not only will everyone have their own private internet, but they will wear the complete interface on their head.
 
2012-01-30 08:04:57 PM

tomWright: millia: Man, it's old fart day here on fark. All sorts of ancient standards I haven't heard in years. Protocols of the learned elders of the internet, you might say.
/remembers the net before the web
//before my lawn got crowded. Y'all can bumble around.

Ahh, bulletin boards, Z-modem, Q-modem, phone couplers and 300 modems. Man I remember when 56k modems came out, not too long after the 14400's. We were cooking then.

All night downloads for porn, and the resulting phone bill because you connected to the wrong exchange.

Good times.


Once had a $400 phone bill because the machine booted into an earlier profile and dialed into a LA access # for a month and I didn't notice. Just thought, hey, I remember that desktop. Cool. Not cool.
 
2012-01-30 08:17:40 PM
What they're talking about here is basically just Tor but on a micro level. Speed and reliability of the network depend on the concentration and uptime of nodes, which insists on wide-scale adoption only possible through ubiquitous electronic devices - phones. And since major cell providers (at least in the US) also are major ISP's don't expect them to be delighted by the fact that their own devices and networks can be repurposed to compete against themselves.

I don't think the "internet as jewelry" has much grounding in reality. Last I checked, my pinky ring didn't need it's battery recharged every night.
 
2012-01-30 08:21:34 PM

Kiler: What about my own private Idaho?


I think Terry Pratchett has that covered in his upcoming The Long Earth (new window) due in about 6 months
 
2012-01-30 08:31:33 PM

1macgeek: Exactly what do you think will happen when the government makes wearing this "jewelry" illegal? In the day and age of indefinite detention, do you really want to try it?


Charles Stross has a good short story about something like this in his book "Wireless" ("Unwirer" written with Cory Doctorow). Sometimes it really feels like we are getting closer to the premise of his story being true.
 
2012-01-30 08:39:49 PM
It won't work because the routing doesn't scale. Figuring out reasonable routing is a very expensive operation. For something that is constantly changing, the keeping the routing up to date and usable is pretty much impossible.
 
2012-01-30 08:48:20 PM

1macgeek: If you don't want the government to take down the internet, then get your ass to the voting booth and vote for the candidates that will reduce the power and scope of government.


I find it amusing that you think such candidates exist, or at least that they would ever be allowed to run under a major party banner and thus have any chance whatsoever of winning. The system is rigged to hell and gone, there are no functional differences between candidates these days. Only difference is what color they'll wear while farking you over.
 
2012-01-30 09:01:45 PM
Except that someone, actually some corporation, will have to build the things and we know what will happen, they'll put in back doors or other methods to let the government or law enforcement in whenever they want.

If these things are almost there, then someone better patent the system and technology and set up production themselves.
 
2012-01-30 09:16:25 PM
img824.imageshack.us

You can always build a PirateBox. It doesn't have mesh capabilities (yet) but it operates as a simple, anonymous file share that anyone in range can use.
 
2012-01-30 09:17:33 PM

Macular Degenerate: What they're talking about here is basically just Tor but on a micro level. Speed and reliability of the network depend on the concentration and uptime of nodes, which insists on wide-scale adoption only possible through ubiquitous electronic devices - phones. And since major cell providers (at least in the US) also are major ISP's don't expect them to be delighted by the fact that their own devices and networks can be repurposed to compete against themselves.


This.

It's not the endpoint devices that are the problem, it's the long-haul lines and their terminus where the wiretapping, censorship, et. al. can most easily occur. Now if there were a way for packets to dynamically "island-hop" from wireless device to wireless device while still understanding their ultimate destination (routing), we would have a winner. Long-haul isn't solved, along with other traffic and scaling related issues, but you would get a kind of new web feudalism with autonomous systems being pretty much independent of the core 'net as a whole in small or regional areas.

I am not a telecommunications professional though...oh wait, yes I am.
 
2012-01-30 09:27:52 PM
Isn't that what they call a VPN? I recall it was very hot with my provider's salesmen when IPSEC gear first came out. But these days it is much easier to just use a private tracker and encrypt all bittorrent traffic.

/ Haven't bothered to check if ithat is really safe from snooping tho.
 
2012-01-30 09:43:33 PM
AngryDragon:
This.

It's not the endpoint devices that are the problem, it's the long-haul lines and their terminus where the wiretapping, censorship, et. al. can most easily occur. Now if there were a way for packets to dynamically "island-hop" from wireless device to wireless device while still understanding their ultimate destination (routing), we would have a winner. Long-haul isn't solved, along with other traffic and scaling related issues, but you would get a kind of new web feudalism with autonomous systems being pretty much independent of the core 'net as a whole in small or regional areas.

I am not a telecommunications professional though...oh wait, yes I am.

Especially with the rise of geo-tagged IP addresses, packets can now move in a physical direction. THis becomes important with thousands of micro hops, whereas in traditional internet, the path is chosen on more geographically-abstract mechanisms, such as speed, capacity and bandwidth. A packet may now choose a slower, yet more direct path, utilizing hundreds of small hops. Right now, you send an email from Miami to Tampa, odds are good it's going through Philadelphia, Chicago and Kansas City, Space, following major pipes. Micronetworking like this has no major pipes. I call this type of networking "Hobo networking". Packets wander with a vague geographic destination in mind. Time to arrive is indeterminate, but inevitable.
 
2012-01-30 09:54:26 PM

tomWright: did anyone else page formatting go all kerfluey? Or is my new laptop farking with me?

/it's DHS, I know it is


Happened to me to. Like the white background was missing and just had the grey world background underneath text.
 
2012-01-30 10:01:52 PM
You can have ALL the internets...
 
2012-01-30 10:04:14 PM
Isn't Diaspora (new window) supposed to be a step in this particular direction?
 
2012-01-30 10:18:52 PM

1macgeek: Save me from the wannabes. Exactly what do you think will happen when the government makes wearing this "jewelry" illegal? In the day and age of indefinite detention, do you really want to try it?

Farking idiots. If you don't want the government to take down the internet, then get your ass to the voting booth and vote for the candidates that will reduce the power and scope of government. It's not going to happen because it would mean your welfare check evaporating as well. Well, wah. I have little pity for people that didn't understand that a government big enough to give you everything is big enough to take it away as well.


Being the only one who understands must be a long and lonely vigil. We all doff out caps in utter awe of you.
 
2012-01-30 10:20:53 PM
Brilliant! Lets open up control of internet traffic to every ass hat with a laptop. What could possibly go wrong?

This guy is an idiot, Subby is equally stupid for believing him and spreading his stupidity.
 
2012-01-30 10:51:09 PM

1macgeek: Save me from the wannabes. Exactly what do you think will happen when the government makes wearing this "jewelry" illegal? In the day and age of indefinite detention, do you really want to try it?

Farking idiots. If you don't want the government to take down the internet, then get your ass to the voting booth and vote for the candidates that will reduce the power and scope of government. It's not going to happen because it would mean your welfare check evaporating as well. Well, wah. I have little pity for people that didn't understand that a government big enough to give you everything is big enough to take it away as well.


Some people value religious freedom and safe working conditions. There are no current powerful political parties that advocate all three (limited government, worker's rights, religious tolerance). Not only that, but some people support the ideals of democracy, and the ideals of our founding fathers, that government is of the people, by the people, and for the people. The government is supposed to be there to serve it's citizens. If that is not the case, it needs reforms, not crippling. If instead you are supporting Anarchism, a valid ideology, then voting is not likely to help, as there is no strong Anarchist political party, and the existence of one is a contradiction of itself.
 
2012-01-30 11:02:51 PM

JasonOfOrillia: I've been wondering of there was a way to leverage the Wifi on my routers to network with my neighbors. Do enough of that and you could create a kind-of cool network.

/Would require wireless cards as well as hotspots in each location.
//would probably be horribly inefficient.


Check out an airstash.

Battery powere d, fits in your hand. Serve up your own files.
 
2012-01-31 12:15:31 AM
Seems like it's actually a recreation of the original, decentralized internet as it was envisioned, except on a mobile platform.
 
2012-01-31 12:19:12 AM

MrEricSir: [img824.imageshack.us image 382x326]

You can always build a PirateBox. It doesn't have mesh capabilities (yet) but it operates as a simple, anonymous file share that anyone in range can use.


that's pretty neat.
 
2012-01-31 12:36:59 AM

snailbarf: that's pretty neat.


It is. I built one from a cheap-ass router and it's sitting on my desk at work.
 
2012-01-31 12:57:46 AM

snailbarf: MrEricSir: [img824.imageshack.us image 382x326]

You can always build a PirateBox. It doesn't have mesh capabilities (yet) but it operates as a simple, anonymous file share that anyone in range can use.

that's pretty neat.


I know. I have the parts list...I just need to order it, and then build me a couple of 'em.
 
2012-01-31 03:57:57 AM

1macgeek: Save me from the wannabes. Exactly what do you think will happen when the government makes wearing this "jewelry" illegal? In the day and age of indefinite detention, do you really want to try it?

Farking idiots. If you don't want the government to take down the internet, then get your ass to the voting booth and vote for the candidates that will reduce the power and scope of government. It's not going to happen because it would mean your welfare check evaporating as well. Well, wah. I have little pity for people that didn't understand that a government big enough to give you everything is big enough to take it away as well.


aw, how cute. he still thinks that people running for office give a shiat about what the voters want.
 
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