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(Washington Post)   New Gingrich ad suggests that America is headed down the same path as Cuba with their government-run inexpensive health care for all citizens. ¡Viva la Revolución   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 129
    More: Fail, Newt Gingrich, Cuban-Americans, David Rivera, Gingrich ad  
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1239 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Jan 2012 at 3:58 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-30 07:44:05 PM
www.northernsun.com
 
2012-01-30 08:03:18 PM
So the insurance based system is so bad Republican's must lower the bar to Cuba to make favorable comparisons.
In America, we often debate this issue with well meaning citizens arguing for both sides. Ask any Canadian (or "socialist" European) if they would vote for revoking their healthcare system for a more American model.
 
2012-01-30 08:09:17 PM

Mad Scientist: [www.northernsun.com image 288x288]


home.comcast.net
The good guy in charge on Lance Link was named "Darwin".

The 'bad guys' were a Jew acting a German (Baron von Butcher)
A Mexican chauffeur (Creto - his name was basically a play on the word "cretin.")
A Chinese man (Wang Fu)
A Chinese lady (Dragon Woman)
A member of the wealthy aristocracy (The Duchess)
An Islamic murderer (Ali Assa Seen)
And a mad former-Nazi scientist (Dr. Strangemind)

So, If the Onion is prophetic, then Lancelot Link Secret Chimp was freakin' Nostradamus.
 
2012-01-30 08:23:00 PM
Folks like Mr. Gingrich are perfectly OK with "health care via penny jar" - in other words, the only way poor white Christian families will ever get their catastrophic illness cured or injury healed is for anonymous customers to drop coins in a jar at the local convenience store.
"Look, mama, this week we got enough to buy another bottle of pills!"

Trouble is for him, if we were to put in place a health insurance system that took care of those poor white Christian families, we'd have to take care of those icky "other" families, too.
 
2012-01-30 08:27:19 PM
So let me get this straight, The world's most powerful economy continues to sanction, boycott and otherwise deliberately punish it's small struggling neighbor with limited resources for forty years because of past associations with a country that no longer exists. So Newt deems it politically favorable to mock them for not being able to care for their citizen's in the manner that some in the USA can afford. "Bully for You Newt!"
How about a Gingrich ad that suggests that America is headed down the same path as France with their WHO No.1 ranking government-run inexpensive healthcare for all. Oh noes!
 
2012-01-30 08:36:43 PM

Norv Turner: Idk, I'm against healthcare for everyone simply based on the fact that there's too many damn people.


Without healthcare for all we won't have that problem very much longer.
I have no problem with a GOP goal to rid the US of poverty, but when their ultimate solution is to rid the US of poor people that is a different story altogether.
/too far?
 
2012-01-30 08:38:57 PM

Forgot_my_password_again: Lando Lincoln: No, it's true. Go to the World Health Organization website and look up various metrics for world healthcare. Cuba beats the U.S. in some metrics.

I've read the report and the factors they use are questionable.

But that could be a long debate in itself.

Cuba doesn't have a better system, just greater access to a worse one.


Considering that Cuba is dirt farking poor and America is the richest, shouldn't we have a better system and greater access? Is that just asking too much?
 
2012-01-30 08:42:04 PM
Don't you love farce?
My fault I fear.
I thought that you'd want what I want.
Sorry, my dear.
But where are the clowns?
Quick, send in the clowns.
Don't bother, they're here.
 
2012-01-30 08:43:16 PM
DerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerp
DerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerp
DerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerp
DerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerp
DerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerp
DerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerp
DerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerp
DerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerp
DerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerp
DerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerp
DerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerpDerp

/that's all that spews from Newt's mouth
 
2012-01-30 08:49:06 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: randomjsa: Cuba with their government-run inexpensive health care for all citizens.

Oh you mean their government run health care that still gives massive preferential treatment to certain powerful people while the rest of the country gets whatever is left or nothing at all?

Just it will be in this country if we ever decide to screw ourselves with socialism.

That is our system now.

[www.yalibnan.com image 300x376]


Indeed. (new window)
 
2012-01-30 09:20:11 PM

Darth_Lukecash: I distinctively remember democratic party being doom and gloom when running against republican incumbents.


And losing.

Bill Clinton didn't run on doom and gloom and he won, while John Kerry did run on doom and gloom and lost.

Doom and gloom is a losing strategy.
 
2012-01-30 09:25:49 PM
jeebus crisp i wish we had some real socialism in this country
 
2012-01-30 10:02:31 PM

skepticultist: Doom and gloom is a losing strategy.


Shhh. Don't tell them.
 
2012-01-30 10:25:50 PM
img836.imageshack.us
so essentially the same results for 1/20th the price?

...oh no?
 
2012-01-30 10:29:39 PM
Cuba tends to cook ther books on things like Healthcare:

For example Cuba and nmany other countries compute their infant fatality rates differently.

"The primary reason Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than the United States is that the United States is a world leader in an odd category - the percentage of infants who die on their birthday. In any given year in the United States anywhere from 30-40 percent of infants die before they are even a day old.

Why? Because the United States also easily has the most intensive system of
emergency intervention to keep low birth weight and premature infants alive
in the world. The United States is, for example, one of only a handful countries that keeps detailed statistics on early fetal mortality - the survival rate of infants who are born as early as the 20th week of gestation.

How does this skew the statistics? Because in the United States if an infant is born weighing only 400 grams and not breathing, a doctor will likely spend lot of time and money trying to revive that infant. If the infant does not survive - and the mortality rate for such infants is in excess of 50 percent - that sequence of events will be recorded as a live birth and then a death.

In many countries, however, (including many European countries) such severe medical intervention would not be attempted and, moreover, regardless of whether or not it was, this would be recorded as a fetal death rather than a live birth. That unfortunate infant would never show up in infant mortality statistics."


Link (new window)

There is also a human rights cost to Cuban healthcare:

"While Cuba has sent thousands of doctors abroad on official aid missions, it restricts individual foreign travel by physicians, arguing that it has made too heavy investment in training them to see them freely emigrate for higher salaries elsewhere."

Link (new window)
 
2012-01-30 10:37:58 PM

hasty ambush: Cuba tends to cook ther books on things like Healthcare:

For example Cuba and nmany other countries compute their infant fatality rates differently.

"The primary reason Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than the United States is that the United States is a world leader in an odd category - the percentage of infants who die on their birthday. In any given year in the United States anywhere from 30-40 percent of infants die before they are even a day old.

Why? Because the United States also easily has the most intensive system of
emergency intervention to keep low birth weight and premature infants alive
in the world. The United States is, for example, one of only a handful countries that keeps detailed statistics on early fetal mortality - the survival rate of infants who are born as early as the 20th week of gestation.

How does this skew the statistics? Because in the United States if an infant is born weighing only 400 grams and not breathing, a doctor will likely spend lot of time and money trying to revive that infant. If the infant does not survive - and the mortality rate for such infants is in excess of 50 percent - that sequence of events will be recorded as a live birth and then a death.

In many countries, however, (including many European countries) such severe medical intervention would not be attempted and, moreover, regardless of whether or not it was, this would be recorded as a fetal death rather than a live birth. That unfortunate infant would never show up in infant mortality statistics."


Link (new window)

There is also a human rights cost to Cuban healthcare:

"While Cuba has sent thousands of doctors abroad on official aid missions, it restricts individual foreign travel by physicians, arguing that it has made too heavy investment in training them to see them freely emigrate for higher salaries elsewhere."

Link (new window)


Okay, okay. I think I follow you. What you're saying is that we should adopt socialized medicine like every other first-world nation and Cuba, and we should make sure that we maintain strong prenatal care (and extend it to those in the US who don't have insurance) and we allow foreign doctors with exceptional skills to work in the US.

Let's send that to Congress!
 
2012-01-31 01:57:08 AM
ha. You have to keep slaves in good health, or they won't produce for you. Go to Cuba and refuse to show up for a rally in support of Castro and see what happens to you. :)
 
2012-01-31 02:05:21 AM
Just ask southern slaveowners how much they cared about the health of their slaves. A sick/injured slave can't earn massa a larger fortune. If you'd trade al your rights just for the slavemaster giving you some free healthcare you are a farking idiot. Health care is nice and all, but sheesh.
 
2012-01-31 08:08:02 AM
Yup... in the best country on earth, there is always money to have a war, but if you need help back home, you better have the money. Let them die in the streets. Its the capitalist american way.
 
2012-01-31 08:48:01 AM
Every second day I hear a story.. I was doing well but I fell ill and needed treatment for an infection, now my family owes 200 grand.

Your healthcare system is a farking RACKET. The mafia would blush if they tried to pull off anything like it.
 
2012-01-31 09:53:12 AM

gimmegimme: hasty ambush: Cuba tends to cook ther books on things like Healthcare:

For example Cuba and nmany other countries compute their infant fatality rates differently.

"The primary reason Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than the United States is that the United States is a world leader in an odd category - the percentage of infants who die on their birthday. In any given year in the United States anywhere from 30-40 percent of infants die before they are even a day old.

Why? Because the United States also easily has the most intensive system of
emergency intervention to keep low birth weight and premature infants alive
in the world. The United States is, for example, one of only a handful countries that keeps detailed statistics on early fetal mortality - the survival rate of infants who are born as early as the 20th week of gestation.

How does this skew the statistics? Because in the United States if an infant is born weighing only 400 grams and not breathing, a doctor will likely spend lot of time and money trying to revive that infant. If the infant does not survive - and the mortality rate for such infants is in excess of 50 percent - that sequence of events will be recorded as a live birth and then a death.

In many countries, however, (including many European countries) such severe medical intervention would not be attempted and, moreover, regardless of whether or not it was, this would be recorded as a fetal death rather than a live birth. That unfortunate infant would never show up in infant mortality statistics."


Link (new window)

There is also a human rights cost to Cuban healthcare:

"While Cuba has sent thousands of doctors abroad on official aid missions, it restricts individual foreign travel by physicians, arguing that it has made too heavy investment in training them to see them freely emigrate for higher salaries elsewhere."

Link (new window)

Okay, okay. I think I follow you. What you're saying is that we should adopt socialized medicine like every other first-world nation and Cuba, and we should make sure that we maintain strong prenatal care (and extend it to those in the US who don't have insurance) and we allow foreign doctors with exceptional skills to work in the US.

Let's send that to Congress!


I don't think you follow at all. What makes socialized medicine affordable for those contries is the austerity measures imposed to keep it affordable such as the example sited with the care provided with premature babies. France. for example doctors don't record a live birth but a live and viable birth (which also skews their infant mortality numbers) a premature birth less than 26 weeks recieves no extra care because it is not considered a viable birth. This example goes up the line. Socialized medicine is budgeted medicne and when the budget is tight rationing in the order to fthe day.

For example:

NHS cancels more than 100,000 operations in a year because of bed shortages, staffing problems and other non-clinical reasons (new window)

Chaoulli vs. Quebec on June 9, 2005 (new window)


The Supreme Court of Canada ruled that prohibitions on private insurance are invalid since the public system has failed to deliver medical in a timely, reliable way and that Government bans on private health insurance have increased the risk to the life and health of Canadians:

"Access to a waiting list is not access to health care, " the court said in its ruling.

"The evidence in this case shows that delays in the public health care system are widespread and that in some serious cases, patients die as a result of waiting lists for public health care, "

A&E patients left in ambulances for up to FIVE hours 'so trusts can meet government targets' (new window)

Ministers are considering scrapping a public holiday to finance extra health care. (new window)

"The French Government is looking for ways to pay for assistance to elderly people, after thousands died in a summer heatwave."

Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin called a meeting of health-care specialists on Tuesday, asking for their help in drawing up the plan.

They warned the government, whose budget deficit already breaks EU rules, that the new measures would not come cheaply."

"He refused to say which of France's 11 holidays might go, but speculation is focusing on Whit Monday or Victory in Europe day, 8 May.

"It would be, as is done in Germany, a bank holiday on which employees would work in the name of national public solidarity," he said.

"It is one of the possibilities, among many others, to try to find genuine solidarity in the nation."
 
2012-01-31 10:10:36 AM

Ned Stark: [img836.imageshack.us image 594x459]
so essentially the same results for 1/20th the price?

...oh no?


U.S. Life Expectancy: We're Number 1 (new window)

"The difference in life expectancy between the US and Netherlands is often referred to as an example of how superior semi-socialized health care increases life expectancy. At birth, someone living in the Netherlands can expect to live 2.35 years longer than someone born in the US, but at age 65, the difference is reversed,"

Health care isn't the only factor in life expectancy since all manner of things can kill you: crime, war, accident, diet and exercise behavior, etc. When we control for traffic fatalities and homicides, "The US jumps from 15th on the list with a life expectancy of 75.3 to 1st with a life expectancy of 76.9."

img97.imageshack.us

Plus I like charts too:

blogs-images.forbes.com
 
2012-01-31 11:06:44 AM
I'd actually love a cuban healthcare system, better than what we currently have.
 
2012-01-31 01:15:02 PM

hasty ambush: . Socialized medicine is budgeted medicne and when the budget is tight rationing in the order to fthe day.


all medicine is budgeted medicine. there are only so many doctors, pills, nurses, and shots to go around. they have to be rationed. the only difference between the US system and the semi-socialist systems is that instead of rationing it by some rational method allocating care to do the most good/serve the greatest need care goes to the highest bidder.
 
2012-01-31 03:45:56 PM
Look at cost per procedure by country. That'll tell you all you need to know.
 
2012-01-31 03:46:01 PM

Ned Stark: hasty ambush: . Socialized medicine is budgeted medicne and when the budget is tight rationing in the order to fthe day.

all medicine is budgeted medicine. there are only so many doctors, pills, nurses, and shots to go around. they have to be rationed. the only difference between the US system and the semi-socialist systems is that instead of rationing it by some rational method allocating care to do the most good/serve the greatest need care goes to the highest bidder.


I can't think of anyplace where this takes place, or could even in a plausible theory take place. Rich people get better health care from Nome to Rome.
 
2012-01-31 05:36:49 PM

Dinobot: I'd actually love a cuban healthcare system, better than what we currently have.


As long as anybody put you has to pay for it right?
 
2012-01-31 06:16:47 PM

hasty ambush: Dinobot: I'd actually love a cuban healthcare system, better than what we currently have.

As long as anybody put you has to pay for it right?


I'd gladly pay higher taxes if it means a better healthcare system.
 
2012-02-01 02:43:32 PM

Sock Ruh Tease: "The selection of a Republican candidate for the presidency of this globalized and expansive empire is - and I mean this seriously - the greatest competition of idiocy and ignorance that has ever been." - Fidel Castro

 
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