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(LA Times)   Massive car wreck looks like something out of a bad disaster movie   (latimes.com) divider line 141
    More: Sad, disasters  
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23372 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jan 2012 at 7:47 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-30 12:22:18 AM

PsyPBJBacon: ZAZ: A Gentile in Boca

In the Northeast driving slowly on a fast highway is considered a good time to use flashers. I have seen signs saying "use flashers below 40 mph". The Pennsylvania driver's manual specifically says you should do this.

In Ohio, the hazard lights are used as an excuse to go really fast. I'm not sure it's legal but I see it happen at least once or twice a week.


Federal DOT mandates truck drivers to use hazards on highways under 45mph. In Pennysylvania, supposed to be at 50mph. It's not the hazards that cause these crashes. It is driving too fast for conditions.

I drive this road at least 4 days a week. As a matter of fact, we came through there last night about 3 hrs prior to this accident.

In fog/smoke/crappy visibility SLOW down. If you can't see the zipper and the fog line, get off the road, stay in your vehicle and turn your lights OFF.
 
2012-01-30 12:26:18 AM

A Gentile in Boca: BolloxReader: A Gentile in Boca:
Keep studying big guy.

Start with FL Statute 316.2397 (7).


Federal DOT trumps state laws for commercial truck drivers. In his case, (in a truck) he's right.

/truck driver with 1.8 million miles under my belt.
 
2012-01-30 12:27:15 AM
I blame Project Arrowhead.
 
2012-01-30 12:44:34 AM

KarmaSpork: A Gentile in Boca: BolloxReader: A Gentile in Boca:
Keep studying big guy.

Start with FL Statute 316.2397 (7).

Federal DOT trumps state laws for commercial truck drivers. In his case, (in a truck) he's right.

/truck driver with 1.8 million miles under my belt.


DOT 392.14 & 392.22(a).
Can't seem to find where it says hazard lights make driving in terrible conditions oke-doke. Seems to say if the shiat hits the fan get off the road.

As stated earlier state laws regarding hazard usage differs.

Safe travels.
 
2012-01-30 12:57:20 AM

A Gentile in Boca: KarmaSpork: A Gentile in Boca: BolloxReader: A Gentile in Boca:
Keep studying big guy.

Start with FL Statute 316.2397 (7).

Federal DOT trumps state laws for commercial truck drivers. In his case, (in a truck) he's right.

/truck driver with 1.8 million miles under my belt.

DOT 392.14 & 392.22(a).
Can't seem to find where it says hazard lights make driving in terrible conditions oke-doke. Seems to say if the shiat hits the fan get off the road.

As stated earlier state laws regarding hazard usage differs.

Safe travels.


Karma is right on this one, one of our drivers got a ticket in Tallahassee for using his flashers going up a steep grade, our lawyer got the ticket dismissed under a Fed DoT reg he found somewhere, I don't care enough about the subject to log into work and search the personnel files for the case to find out what statute it was.
 
2012-01-30 12:57:56 AM
Weird. The photos don't seem to correlate with 10 dead. On the other hand, the video in this article doesn't seem to fit with one victim: German autobahn pileup (pops)

It's a pity that road deaths don't get more focus (in terms of action for prevention) because they all happen ones and twos rather than hundreds at a time, although over the year the numbers are high.
 
2012-01-30 12:58:28 AM
Since nobody else will do it:
www.imcdb.org
 
2012-01-30 01:02:51 AM

ecossais: Weird. The photos don't seem to correlate with 10 dead.

.
.
The article makes no attempt to be clear - but it sorta hinted at more than one crash. Bad writing, or they were purposefully being sneaky?
 
2012-01-30 01:04:51 AM

Leskay: ecossais: Weird. The photos don't seem to correlate with 10 dead.
.
.
The article makes no attempt to be clear - but it sorta hinted at more than one crash. Bad writing, or they were purposefully being sneaky?


There were two multi-car pileups on both sides of the interstate.
 
2012-01-30 02:15:48 AM

zxcasd: SoCalSurfer: Sorry, I ate fidels today. My bad, I didn't think it would affect Florida though

Yes, but which Fidel's?

Only Carlsbad can cause a blowup like that.

/Solana snob, even if it isn't on the water like CB.


Funny, the Fidels in Carlsbad is also what popped up in my mind when I read that
 
2012-01-30 02:39:33 AM
FTFA

All lanes of the interstate -- there are three lanes running each direction -- remained closed as investigators began trying to figure out exactly what caused the wrecks

Also

Hazy fog and heavy smoke from a brush fire clouded a north Florida interstate highway overnight, leaving drivers blinded

/maybe it was the fog and smoke?
 
2012-01-30 02:42:41 AM

Zoomaster: FTFA

All lanes of the interstate -- there are three lanes running each direction -- remained closed as investigators began trying to figure out exactly what caused the wrecks

Also

Hazy fog and heavy smoke from a brush fire clouded a north Florida interstate highway overnight, leaving drivers blinded

/maybe it was the fog and smoke?


Usually insurance companies would appreciate a little more detail.
 
2012-01-30 02:44:23 AM
Oh and lawyers. Lawyers like detail too.
 
2012-01-30 03:35:57 AM
The key thing to realize is that the cause of the fire has been reported as potentially arson. If it was arson, then the individual who set the fire is probably liable for felony murder charges as the smoke from the fire was a contribuing cause (in all likelihood) to the wreck. Given the multiple fatalities, if it was arson, this could lead to the death penalty.
 
2012-01-30 05:37:27 AM

rooftop235: JasonOfOrillia: "Man this smoke and fog is heavy"
"Honey, maybe we should slow down"
"Don't worry, I've got it under control"

That's been proven. People tend to actually speed up in fog.


Did you mean "SUV drivers"?
 
2012-01-30 05:42:01 AM

Confabulat: Leskay: ecossais: Weird. The photos don't seem to correlate with 10 dead.
.
.
The article makes no attempt to be clear - but it sorta hinted at more than one crash. Bad writing, or they were purposefully being sneaky?

There were two multi-car pileups on both sides of the interstate.


Rubberneckers on the other side going, "Gee, look kids, a pileup!!"
 
2012-01-30 06:34:51 AM
Always when I read something like this, I wonder why massive pile ups over here with our speed limit free zones aren't as deadly.
 
2012-01-30 06:40:21 AM
Any locals know the status of 75 this morning? Should I plan an alternate route ?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-01-30 08:00:58 AM
craig328: watched the delightful folks from NY slam on the brakes when the clouds opened up on them

I was driving on the Mass Pike through Newton when hail started falling. Some folks decided to park under the overpass. In a travel lane.

If I hit everybody who deserved to be hit I wouldn't have a car. I managed to avoid them, but I was hoping to see a fireball in my rear view mirror.
 
2012-01-30 08:08:04 AM
You know what I've always wondered? Why does fog maintain such density on the high-traffic roads? A car going past you whips up a decent draft, let alone a semi. This should create a "tunnel" of moving air, which should keep the fog from getting so dense you would think.

Well I've found my research project for the day
 
2012-01-30 09:37:28 AM

Darth_Lukecash: if you can't see for shiat- slow down or pull off the road.


that's the problem. some people slow down, some people keep going the same speed. i don't know if the guy in front of me is slowing down or not, but if the guy behind me isn't slowing down and I slow down, i know i am going to be in an accident very soon.
 
2012-01-30 09:43:25 AM
Daedalus27: The key thing to realize is that the cause of the fire has been reported as potentially arson. If it was arson, then the individual who set the fire is probably liable for felony murder charges as the smoke from the fire was a contribuing cause (in all likelihood) to the wreck. Given the multiple fatalities, if it was arson, this could lead to the death penalty.

Nonsense. You can't premeditate death by arson smokescreen.

Manslaughter at the most, time served since yokel can't make bail.
 
2012-01-30 09:44:49 AM
Naesen: You know what I've always wondered? Why does fog maintain such density on the high-traffic roads? A car going past you whips up a decent draft, let alone a semi. This should create a "tunnel" of moving air, which should keep the fog from getting so dense you would think.

Well I've found my research project for the day


Easy.

Because the amount of energy nature is working with dwarfs anything we do as humans.
 
2012-01-30 09:52:03 AM

craig328: TyrantII: Flordia, worst drivers period.

And thats coming from a Masshole.

It rains and you'll go by 15 cars in the ditch because they were still going 90mph thinking everything would work out swell.


Um, that'd be all the Massholes from "up North" as Floridians are quite well acquainted with driving in the rain.

Only accident I was ever in was coming out of Disney World and watched the delightful folks from NY slam on the brakes when the clouds opened up on them. Normal event for those who live there, armageddon for those who don't. They went from 45 to 0 (freakin' zero) on a 3 lane road. I stopped, the folks from Michigan behind me didn't.


THIS. I avoid the Disney zone like the plague. The tourists here are even stupider than the locals. And that's saying quite a bit.
 
2012-01-30 10:07:11 AM

Naesen: You know what I've always wondered? Why does fog maintain such density on the high-traffic roads? A car going past you whips up a decent draft, let alone a semi. This should create a "tunnel" of moving air, which should keep the fog from getting so dense you would think.

Well I've found my research project for the day


Um...think that through a little further. The semi truck makes a "tunnel" of moving air (somewhat true) but, while the truck is displacing the air, a vacuum (or low pressure area) is being formed behind the truck. Air moves from high pressure to low pressure but the air that rushes in to fill the void (the "tunnel") is filled with what?

Hint: the truck is driving through a mass of air containing fog/smoke.
 
2012-01-30 10:10:02 AM

gojirast: THIS. I avoid the Disney zone like the plague. The tourists here are even stupider than the locals. And that's saying quite a bit.


To be fair, the locals (people who've lived in Florida for more than a few years) drive in rain just fine. They kind of have to as during rainy season, it rains pretty much every afternoon. You adjust and get used to it. Even for the tourists, it's not an issue of smart/stupid but more of one of experience.

It'd be like complaining about how a Floridian would drive on ice. Actually, that's kind of a trick question because anytime there's ice on the roads in the South, people just stay home.

/after they clean out the grocery stores of milk and bread
 
2012-01-30 10:35:10 AM

medius: theMightyRegeya: Florida has nothing on South Carolina. I have memories of watching cars going off the road, left and right, during coastal rain showers. The people driving off the road were all from SC

What I don't understand, even though I once lived in the state for a few years, is where all the abandoned cars in NC come from. My final theory was that people in NC are being raptured in waves. An orange sticker on the window from the highway patrol means "another rapture abandoned vehicle".

You know you've crossed into the state when you see the first one, just sitting there, miles from anywhere.

Personally, all my car wrecks happened in Florida. May have hopped a few curbs in NC too, though. And I swear that stationary dumpster came out of nowhere. (Stupidity may have been a factor.)


Stationed at camp lejeune, nc right now. My husband and I have wondered about this for a while. It's even bad on base!


I'm not saying its aliens, but.... It's aliens.
 
2012-01-30 11:24:03 AM

See My Az Go: Any locals know the status of 75 this morning? Should I plan an alternate route ?


I-75 and 441 were both closed this morning. Looks like they just reopened both of them.

/Glad I wasn't headed down to Ocala this weekend.
 
2012-01-30 11:39:21 AM

ZAZ: That's more of a California style accident than a Florida accident. Every few years there's fog in the central valley and visibility goes from perfect to where's-my-hood? in moments as drivers enter a fogbank. Drivers entering fog at speed get some blame here.

Rarely we have big chain reaction wrecks in New England. Unlike California's fog and Florida's smoke, ours are caused by sudden snow squalls that you can't anticipate.

Fog banks over New England roads almost always have at least 200 feet visibility.


The above sentence is one of the biggest reasons that the rest of the country hates Californians... They think they invented everything, even multi-car pileups with multiple deaths...
 
2012-01-30 11:48:19 AM

chookbillion: Pribar: clear_prop: Pics 2 and 3 are of a UPS double trailer. I wonder if the UPS tracker has 'package destroyed in freeway inferno' as a status.

I just checked on something I ordered from Amazon, it had been saying "departed Gainesville, Fl" now it says "We're sorry. We are unable to retrieve tracking information for this shipment at this time." coincidence I wonder?

Oh wow, that's creepy.


I once had my UPS tracker come up with "Package delayed due to train derailment", but it arrived in good condition a few days later...
 
2012-01-30 12:09:58 PM
I'll never understand why people don't slow down in bad weather.
 
2012-01-30 02:08:29 PM

ZAZ: That's more of a California style accident than a Florida accident. Every few years there's fog in the central valley and visibility goes from perfect to where's-my-hood? in moments as drivers enter a fogbank. Drivers entering fog at speed get some blame here.

Rarely we have big chain reaction wrecks in New England. Unlike California's fog and Florida's smoke, ours are caused by sudden snow squalls that you can't anticipate.

Fog banks over New England roads almost always have at least 200 feet visibility.


Drivers slowing down are to blame.
 
2012-01-30 02:09:36 PM

Man On Pink Corner: I guess I don't understand... if you are going so fast that you can't see a wall of smoke ahead in time to slow down for it, you're going too fast, right? If you can't see at all, even after you slow down, you should pull as far off the road as you can get and wait it out, right? Am I right, or am I missing an obvious driving strategy here?


No, if everybody keeps moving, nobody dies. It's when people enter the fog, slam on their brakes and get rearended that the shiat hits the fan.
 
2012-01-30 04:02:22 PM

TyrantII: Daedalus27: The key thing to realize is that the cause of the fire has been reported as potentially arson. If it was arson, then the individual who set the fire is probably liable for felony murder charges as the smoke from the fire was a contribuing cause (in all likelihood) to the wreck. Given the multiple fatalities, if it was arson, this could lead to the death penalty.

Nonsense. You can't premeditate death by arson smokescreen.

Manslaughter at the most, time served since yokel can't make bail.


You don't need premeditation for felony murder. You do an inherently dangerous criminal act (like arson) you can anticipate people may die because of it. This includes setting fires where death results whether by burning, smoke inhalation, accidents in evacuation, heart attack/breathing issues from smoke, etc. It is reasonable to expect when you intentionally set a fire, bad things can happen and you will be held responsible.
 
2012-01-30 06:39:49 PM

dk47: Man On Pink Corner: I guess I don't understand... if you are going so fast that you can't see a wall of smoke ahead in time to slow down for it, you're going too fast, right? If you can't see at all, even after you slow down, you should pull as far off the road as you can get and wait it out, right? Am I right, or am I missing an obvious driving strategy here?

No, if everybody keeps moving, nobody dies. It's when people enter the fog, slam on their brakes and get rearended that the shiat hits the fan.


How do you see a wall of smoke at 3:45 am anyway?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-01-30 07:34:32 PM
Arson of a dwelling is a routine example of felony murder. Arson of a swamp would fall under a different statute. I don't know whether it would be considered inherently dangerous to human life.
 
2012-01-30 08:32:39 PM

Confabulat: Zoomaster: FTFA

All lanes of the interstate -- there are three lanes running each direction -- remained closed as investigators began trying to figure out exactly what caused the wrecks

Also

Hazy fog and heavy smoke from a brush fire clouded a north Florida interstate highway overnight, leaving drivers blinded

/maybe it was the fog and smoke?

Usually insurance companies would appreciate a little more detail.


======

Yes, they all want to pass the buck and make someone else pay. Warren Buffet didn't become a billionair by paying out claims.
 
2012-01-30 09:01:11 PM

Barfmaker: I don't mean to contradict Subby, but to me it looks like something out of a good disaster movie.


Looks like something out of a terrible buddy comedy.
 
2012-01-31 12:18:46 AM

Confabulat: How do you see a wall of smoke at 3:45 am anyway?


You maintain appropriate speed for the conditions, so that you can slow down safely if you run into the #$*(#* smoke monster from LOST.

Basically, here's the deal, folks: as a driver, you are responsible only for what's in front of you. There is nothing you can do about whatever is behind you, so you should always do what's appropriate based on what you see in your own headlights. If that means slowing down quickly and/or pulling off the road, then that's what you do.
 
2012-01-31 01:46:54 AM

ZAZ: Arson of a dwelling is a routine example of felony murder. Arson of a swamp would fall under a different statute. I don't know whether it would be considered inherently dangerous to human life.


Arson is an inherently dangerous activity regardless of whether it is a dwelling or forest land at least in California. There is a death penalty case about to start dealing with the "Old Fire" (new window) in 2003 that started in brush, and ended up burning 900+ homes and killing 5 people. Any time you intentionally light a fire, you are responsible for the outcome whether that is merely paying the costs of extinguishing it or the legal consequences of the damage and death that result. Of course the florida statute might be different and they may have their own criteria for felony murder.
 
2012-01-31 11:53:05 PM
The cops opened the road after having it closed for too much smoke, and 15 minutes later this happened.
 
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