Although I am writing this from my iPad, I am with the we should consume less crowd. Apple fanboi or hater, if you saw the use I get out of my iPad, you would agree that I am getting full value for my money.

That said, when the iPad2 came out, I was amazed at how many people thought I should buy one, for no other reason than, it's new and shiny. My standard reply, I will buy a new one when it's $500 better than the iPad.

But it's got a faster processor...
My iPad did not get slower the day the new one came out.

It's got a camera...
So does my phone.

And on and on...

It will always be this way as long as Dunbar's number/monkeysphere is in effect. Which is to say, forever.

Both of these are old, but nonetheless still apply.

Dunbar's Number (new window)

Monkeysphere (new window)

100 Watt Walrus: Without Fail: cybernia: An iPhone costs approximately $188 to make, they sell them for $660 and up, People get them cheap due to their contracts with cell phone providers. So, if they make them here in the US it would be around $250 per phone? As it is now, they make a 75% profit on each phone. Seems to me they could afford to lose a few percentage points in profit and still do damn well.

Don't confuse Apple users with math. If they could do math they wouldn't pick the most limited and expensive devices to buy.

Does that include shipping from China, shipping to stores, packaging, marketing, etc. It always cracks me up when people think the cost of manufacturing is the only cost in bringing a product to market.

FTFA: "...costs Apple an estimated $188 in materials..."

Yeah, that's what I thought.

In 2009, Apple spent $249 million on advertising. Considering the 75% profit on each phone, I would imagine marketing shipping etc aren't that big a deal .Profits: $80 billion

Flint Ironstag: And your evidence for this figure? Since you are basically saying you know better than Steve Jobs? You know, the guy who built Apple into one of the worlds biggest and most profitable companies? Who had access to the actual, exact, figures?

You are right, and he was wrong. That's what you are saying, right?

Jobs wasn't wrong, Jobs was a complete sociopath (and so is Tim Cook). Either would sell their children to save a few pennies (well, if they admitted the children were theirs). The truth in the late '90s and the truth today are not the same. 15 years ago, when Jobs closed Apple's factories in California and moved them to China, it was a bit cheaper.

That is no longer nearly as true today. Automation has improved dramatically in the past 15 years. Chinese workers, even working in slave-like conditions, cost more than they cost 15 years ago. It's getting very close to the point where machines are cheaper than Chinese workers, even with the near absence of labor and safety law enforcement.

Most importantly, because of dramatic improvements in automation, were Apple products to be built in the US or any other first world nation, most of those 700,000 tiny hands would be replaced with robots.

It is provably possible to build devices every bit as good as Apple's in first world countries with safe labor conditions and excellent qualities of life. Samsung does it in Korea, Nokia does it in Scandinavia, HTC does it in Taiwan, and they sell their devices for LESS than Apple charges. Is the cost premium $10? Is it $65? I believe it's a lot closer to $10, largely because "labor" is not a large cost driver any longer, supply chains are. Were Apple to slowly rebuild that supply chain, I believe the costs would be very close to what they're paying now. Why don't they do it? Probably because it's easier for them to just keep doing what they're doing.

Based on what Samsung is doing in Korea, Nokia in Scandinavia, and HTC in Taiwan are doing, it's provable that Apple could build again in the United States and do so very profitable. Apple doesn't build in the US because they can't afford to, but because they choose not to.

Without Fail: Steve Jobs is dead because he wouldn't let his surgeon operate for 9 months.
I would say that makes him kinda stupid.


From what I did read of the biography he had some farked up eating issues in his life. Weird ass diets,purging,fasting just things that lead me to think that he had some serious control issues going on.

ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: Didnt know foxconn made xboxs as well till now that would explain why they overheat, seeing as though I build PCs and FOXCONN MOTHERBOARDS ARE STRAIGHT shiat. The real problem with apple is the proprietery parts bullshiat, monitor cord breaks u cant go buy any old VGA/DVI cord u have to buy the special Mac cord thats probably 30-50$. And they do have damn near a 400% markup on their macs. I could build a computer with the same specs as a macbook for at lear 1/3 of a macbook if not 1/4. And for u dumb apple fan boys that means there is at least a 300% markup on macs. And they do get viruses too and it is 10x harder to remove a virus from a mac than a windows pc

Do you build your own robots, too? How much does the human hair cost?

Without Fail: Flint Ironstag: Apples profit was $28 billion. The iPhone alone moving to the US would wipe out more than a third of Apples entire profit.

Unless they ADDED $65 to the price and a big MADE IN AMERICA sticker. And I would buy one.

Moran

Actually there's something that everyone is ignoring here.



The one and only reason people are able to afford things like iPhones in the first place is because of the gigantic availability of imaginary money in this country, ie credit. We have a credit bubble which is going to pop, but it keeps being inflated because the middle/lower classes no longer make money to buy products. So we give them credit, to keep the appearance of actually being able to afford things.

One day that bubble will pop and NOBODY is going to be able to afford iphones and ipads anymore (hell, technically they can't afford them now). Then Apple is royally farked.

Now, if production were to be moved back into the states, people in this country would start making real money again, instead of relying on credit. More people would afford the products.

This is the reason why Trickle Down always has been and always will be complete and utter bullshiat. Products do not sell if people have no money to buy them. Moving production of goods completely overseas destroys the middle/lower classes' ability to purchase products and keep an economy alive to a point that we need to create a massive credit bubble just to keep up appearances.

/we are so farked.

ChuDogg: For the record, I dont think Apple should do anything that would make them non competitive. That is the responsibilities of governments, ie: tariffs.

The selling of free trade to citizens of every country and that they wouldn't be competitive without it was one of the biggest con jobs in all of human history.

But it's our duty to prop up the economy of Burma so they can construct a few more Nikes! How else are they going to not be third world.

oroku_saki: Zyng: oroku_saki: Adding to that, this is also why I want to cockpunch Apple worshippers:


Similarly, I believe people who act like things are all black and white should be cockpunched. That image should be used as a texbook example of 'oversimplification'.

If it wasn't for Ritchie, computer technology would have been held back about 30 years. To me, his work did way more for computing than Steve Jobs ever did. Tell me this: without Jobs, what would we be missing in our lives besides iProducts?

Just a few points off the top of my head..

Jobs and Ritchie are in no way equivalent figures. Comparing them doesn't make any sense in the first place.

The world needs smart bussines people to figure out how to actually bring a viable product to market and make it a success. Smart engineers, while important, are far from being the only requirement as your image appears to suggest.

There is no such thing as an "apple worshipper". Brand favoritism has been around much longer than Apple has. For every remotely successful brand there are lots of people who will eagerly buy each new product. Apple happens to be at the top of industry at the moment so they are currently the most popular target for the (also quite large) group of people who enjoy ripping on things that are successful.

RandomRandom: Jobs wasn't wrong, Jobs was a complete sociopath (and so is Tim Cook). Either would sell their children to save a few pennies (well, if they admitted the children were theirs). The truth in the late '90s and the truth today are not the same. 15 years ago, when Jobs closed Apple's factories in California and moved them to China, it was a bit cheaper.

You buy jeans? Bought a refrigerator? Bought a peach? Bought a printer? All these were created in countries and under worse conditions and you have been perfectly happy all this time until recently. Why is that?

Based on what Samsung is doing in Korea, Nokia in Scandinavia, and HTC in Taiwan are doing, it's provable that Apple could build again in the United States and do so very profitable. Apple doesn't build in the US because they can't afford to, but because they choose not to.

That's complete bullshiat. Much of what goes into all these products is manufactured in China. And Nokia and HTC both reported major hits to their profits last quarter.

Where was your fake outrage before?

cybernia: 100 Watt Walrus: Without Fail: cybernia: An iPhone costs approximately $188 to make, they sell them for $660 and up, People get them cheap due to their contracts with cell phone providers. So, if they make them here in the US it would be around $250 per phone? As it is now, they make a 75% profit on each phone. Seems to me they could afford to lose a few percentage points in profit and still do damn well.

Don't confuse Apple users with math. If they could do math they wouldn't pick the most limited and expensive devices to buy.

Does that include shipping from China, shipping to stores, packaging, marketing, etc. It always cracks me up when people think the cost of manufacturing is the only cost in bringing a product to market.

FTFA: "...costs Apple an estimated $188 in materials..."

Yeah, that's what I thought.

In 2009, Apple spent $249 million on advertising. Considering the 75% profit on each phone, I would imagine marketing shipping etc aren't that big a deal .Profits: $80 billion

Organizations have a way of fudging numbers. For example, what is the point of a consumer electronics company to be the only one at the mall with their own friggin store, if not for advertising?

I bet the new store plopped right in the middle of Grand Central is costing a pretty penny.

Ahhh... But that's an "operational cost"

Surool: So, pointing out X-Box and other electronics are made by the same overworked underpaid suicidal oppressed workers makes me an Apple Fanboi?

If you're using that as a rationale to defend buying Apple products, Yes, it absolutely does make you an Apple Fanboi.

It's been pointed out in this thread dozens of times, not every manufacturer builds in slave like factory labor towns in China. A lot of manufacturers still build their products in the first world, with enforced safety laws and high quality of life for employees.

Apple doesn't do this. Apple wrings ever 10th of a cent out of every product. Worse, Apple was the driver of these sorts of manufacturing practices. They were among the first, and today, Apple are the largest.

If Apple actually gave a crap about any of this, they could change it tomorrow, YES, literally Tomorrow. One point the NYT article makes very clear, when Apple says jump, their manufacturing partners say, "how high?". If Apple demanded 40 hour work weeks and real safety inspections, it could happen Tomorrow.

Bla bla bla. Plenty of moral high-grounders here, but its all talk.

The majority of the punters out there (eg democratic majority) don't care. They really really don't mind that Chinese workers are dying in slavery and torture. They just want their shiny new toy, and are quite comfortable overlooking the evils that delivered it. And the same goes for the Apple shareholders, who really don't have a problem going to sleep at night.

This is democratic capitalism in operation. USA! USA! USA!

I own several iPhones. Sorry I'm oppressing the masses, but they were on sale. Also you have to consider what other opportunities are available to those employees. In some places they can either work in a sweatshop or a brothel. I'm obviously not saying there's any real excuse for these mega billion dollar corporations to use slave labor, but the company that'll give employees more compensation and benefits than are required by law or necessitated by competition is a rare unicorn indeed.

ChuDogg: cybernia: 100 Watt Walrus: Without Fail: cybernia: An iPhone costs approximately $188 to make, they sell them for $660 and up, People get them cheap due to their contracts with cell phone providers. So, if they make them here in the US it would be around $250 per phone? As it is now, they make a 75% profit on each phone. Seems to me they could afford to lose a few percentage points in profit and still do damn well.

Don't confuse Apple users with math. If they could do math they wouldn't pick the most limited and expensive devices to buy.

Does that include shipping from China, shipping to stores, packaging, marketing, etc. It always cracks me up when people think the cost of manufacturing is the only cost in bringing a product to market.

FTFA: "...costs Apple an estimated $188 in materials..."

Yeah, that's what I thought.

In 2009, Apple spent $249 million on advertising. Considering the 75% profit on each phone, I would imagine marketing shipping etc aren't that big a deal .Profits: $80 billion

Organizations have a way of fudging numbers. For example, what is the point of a consumer electronics company to be the only one at the mall with their own friggin store, if not for advertising?

I bet the new store plopped right in the middle of Grand Central is costing a pretty penny.

Ahhh... But that's an "operational cost"

They got a sweetheart deal. They're only paying $60/sq ft while the going rate is $200 and they're going to make a few million bucks of "improvements, " most of which will benefit them. The state AG is investigating.

Whenever I hear that 'ol line "Americans just won't do this kind of grueling line work anymore" I think of a few relatives of mine who sold their summer to work on a fish processing boat in Alaska. All the mind numbing monotony and crappy hours with the benefit of being surrounded by fish guts.

Americans can do this work just fine, it'd just cost twice as much.

oroku_saki: Adding to that, this is also why I want to cockpunch Apple worshippers:

Here's why I want to cockpunch know-nothing wanna-be IT people : Tell us who Ken Thompson, Brian Kernighan, Douglas McIlroy, and Joe Ossanna are. Do you even know?

They are the people on the TEAM with Ritchie that created Unix and C. A team of AT&T employees at Bell Labs that created Unix. So if you want to be correct you would say without AT&T nothing listed in that graphic would have happened. To say it wouldn't have happened without Ritchie just makes you look like a Ritchie-worshipping, know-nothing jackhole fanboy. You know, just like the people you want to cockpunch.

Okay, good to know. But I don't feel bad. PCs suck.

Without Fail: They are both organizations designed to let the uniformed uninformed feel superior to everyone else.

No, they are both organizations (in their cases usually referred to as "corporations") designed to make as much money as possible by whatever means necessary. What you are referring to is usually called "marketing". One of the basic goals of any marketing department is to make people feel like they need the product in question. Apple and Fox are obviously both very successful in that respect. As I noted in my last post an unavoidable consequence of this is that a certain group of people will always hate them for it.

Disliking them due to the actual details about the their products is a separate issue. For example I happen to really like apple's hardware design. On the other hand I think their software is inexcusably buggy and, with the exception of certain user interface components, horribly designed. On the subject of fox news I hate them because of all the disgusting filth they constantly spew, not due to the fact that they have a marketing department.

bravian: That's complete bullshiat. Much of what goes into all these products is manufactured in China. And Nokia and HTC both reported major hits to their profits last quarter.

Uh, no. You're spouting complete bullshiat.

China does assembly, China does machinery, China does low-end capacitors and crap parts. China is (not yet) the source of the really high end parts that make up most of the cost of high end electronics.

The expensive, complex parts that make up the majority of the costs of high end electronic devices, the processors, RAM, high-end screens are mostly NOT built in China. They're built in Korea, Taiwan, and the United States and a handful of other (mostly) first world nations. Sometimes the processors are packaged in Malaysia or other lower cost countries, but the chip itself is most often still built in first world countries. For instance - iPhone processors, built in Texas.

When a $500 device is built in China, quite often China is only responsible for some plastic bits. very low end electronic parts (capacitors and such) and the final assembly, perhaps 1% of final cost, often less. I recall that Foxconn charges Microsoft $2 to fully build an Xbox, Foxconn's profit is some tiny part of that $2. IBM charges one hell of a lot more than that for the Xbox processor and their profit percentage is massive compared to the Chinese companies.

The point is, most of the profit in these devices is taken by first world technology companies, China picks up the lowest cost, lowest margin scraps of the business. Of course, China has been desperately trying to use their low cost labor pool to build their supply chains, then to build a manufacturing base for complex electronic parts.

If they can keep their labor competitive with automation, their strategy just might win. But they're not there yet. China does not yet build a lot of the components that make up the majority of the cost of these devices.

RandomRandom: Surool: So, pointing out X-Box and other electronics are made by the same overworked underpaid suicidal oppressed workers makes me an Apple Fanboi?

If you're using that as a rationale to defend buying Apple products, Yes, it absolutely does make you an Apple Fanboi.

Where did I use any of that to defend buying any product? You seem to be the only person buying your slave-made products with a rationalization. You also conveniently left out the more important part of the post:

I was going to suggest all companies hold Chinese manufacturers to a higher standard so all Chinese workers can get fair wages... not just the tiny percentage that make Apple products. You go on using you slave made phone/TV/computer and whine about one company while people are being killed.

X-Box builders were threatening mass suicide a few weeks ago, but you don't care about them, because you can only hate Apple for some weird reason. Only the lives of the workers building iPhones and iPads matter to you... that is a pretty big bucket of irony.

It isn't about one company you retard, it's about the people. If you really gave a sh*t about those people, you'd hold all companies who do this as responsible as you claim Apple should be.

austin_millbarge: SuburbanCowboy: Fender Guitars and New Balance shoes are two companies I can think of which have specific lines that are built in the USA.

Double check on Fender. While I know they have a manufacturing plant in the US, they are only required to have a certain % of the product made in the US to be able to call it an "American" Strat. I forget what the specifics are, but I read on this a while back and it's far from 100% American made.

Not bashing, I own one Fender guitar (a mexican made Strat) and love it.

Actually Fender has four distinct product lines with electric guitars. The Custom shop models, the American made models, the Mexican, or standard models as Fender calls them, and the Squier models made in Japan Korea and now China in the last few decades.

As far as percentage of US product in the American models I would probably assume that the wood parts, and their paint are made here and of course final assembly. Not sure about the hardware ie tuners and bridge and electronics.

bow: Mike Daisey was on This American Life, and it was a really good episode.

Check it out (new window)


Started off well but the man sounds retarded and imperious. Two great tastes that don't taste that great together. I'll read the articles.

7:18 time of exit.

RandomRandom:
Jobs wasn't wrong, Jobs was a complete sociopath (and so is Tim Cook). Either would sell their children to save a few pennies (well, if they admitted the children were theirs).

God damn. Do you know how much Steve Jobs' kid could sell for on ebay to one of these people? What a missed opportunity.

Trance750: I know it's considered cool and trendy to hate people who are rich and successful, but Steve Jobs is hardly the only person who does this.

But he was the one leading a company who talked shiat about other companies and their products while never acknowledging that they ran a slave shop.

What I find shocking is that hand labor is cheaper than automation. They must be really paying shiat wages if someone hasn't automated the process.

Surool: RandomRandom: Surool: So, pointing out X-Box and other electronics are made by the same overworked underpaid suicidal oppressed workers makes me an Apple Fanboi?

If you're using that as a rationale to defend buying Apple products, Yes, it absolutely does make you an Apple Fanboi.

Where did I use any of that to defend buying any product? You seem to be the only person buying your slave-made products with a rationalization. You also conveniently left out the more important part of the post:

I was going to suggest all companies hold Chinese manufacturers to a higher standard so all Chinese workers can get fair wages... not just the tiny percentage that make Apple products. You go on using you slave made phone/TV/computer and whine about one company while people are being killed.

X-Box builders were threatening mass suicide a few weeks ago, but you don't care about them, because you can only hate Apple for some weird reason. Only the lives of the workers building iPhones and iPads matter to you... that is a pretty big bucket of irony.

It isn't about one company you retard, it's about the people. If you really gave a sh*t about those people, you'd hold all companies who do this as responsible as you claim Apple should be.

Brilliant. Lets pay everyone a great wage and work standards that fit with US values, and everything made would cost so much that nobody would buy any of it, and the 'slaves' would seep back into the marginal 3rd world lifestyle they enjoyed before they started making a ridiculous amount of money making little electronic devices indoors, no heavy lifting, etc.

The law of unintended consequences really does cause problems once in a while. I'm still waiting for us to successfully eject all of the illegal immigrants. I figure the next day will be interesting when everyone finds out there are no housekeepers, nannies, restaurant cooks, landscapers or meat packing plant workers. I'll bet $5 if you force a 'Merican to build iphones for $10 an hour, they'll attempt suicide too.

kptchris: derp.

If any of your devices, this includes non-apple technology weren't built with the equivalent of slave labor in china, you couldn't have any tech devices. They would be truly limited to the 1% as any laptop would cost 10k+. LCD TV? 10k+. Any kind of modern technology? Even more expensive than your automobile.

herpaderp a doo.


0/10.

When you mentioned the absurdly high costs, that's when you went out of reality. Even non-Apple expensive stuff made in China suffers - I've bought a couple of Thinkpads ($2800 in 2005, $3100 just last year) and things got worse off with more Chinese involvement.



/Yes, I do have a US-built computer
//IBM's RS/6000 44P-270
///It's a 115lb midrange workstation
////With a more sturdy build than your iDevice

I remember back in the days of the multi-colored iMac, we didn't need high-falutin' reasons to call Apple users poofters! We just called them poofters, and they knew it was the truth!

oroku_saki: When I heard about how Woz was given a pittance for a program he made, only to watch Steve turn around and make a wad of cash with it for himself, that was the moment I really started hoping Steve is getting assraped by Hitler with a spiked cockring in hell.

Funny because between you and Woz, there's one person who forgave Jobs for what he did, the other is just being an angry douchebag.

I havent put my ipad2 down since i bought it. I use it for my job, i read books on it, watch tv, listen to music, play games, it's awesome! So if a few hundred chinamen fling themselves off a buillding so i can buy a cool ipad2 i think thats a small price to pay.

Makes me want to buy another iPhone actually.

spamdog: I remember back in the days of the multi-colored iMac, we didn't need high-falutin' reasons to call Apple users poofters! We just called them poofters, and they knew it was the truth!

Funny you should mention those as that was when I severed all ties with Apple. I spend HUNDREDS of dollars and what they sent me tasted nothing like blueberry.

NFA: Americans and people of the world need to wake up and demand that products be built without the modern equivalent of slavery. They need to protest by not buying those products.

Right now, American jobs are pouring into nations that employ people who work 7 days per week for 30 cents per hour in horrible conditions. They work in dangerous contaminated conditions. They're so overwhelmed they hold mass "suicide protests". They employ children at starvation wages. They have 8 or more people living in a factory dormitory and are ordered not to speak to one another or even share names.

When you pick up that iPad, that Dell laptop, the Lenovo Laptop you're promoting human suffering for profit. It's just that simple. You care part of the problem. This has nothing to do with being angry at successful rich companies. EVERYONE likes to see American companies be prosperous and successful. But if they do so by creating or escalating human suffering, if they do so by contaminating our water and living environments, then they DESERVE our contempt.

Right now, we have politicians in Washington fighting to repeal American child labor laws, eliminate the EPA and eliminate standardized education by eliminating the Dept of Education. Basically the dream is to employ Americans in the same conditions described above. Once the environmental laws are eliminated, once the child labor laws are repealed and once local school officials can be bought off so they release children from the being educated, our factories will consume their little souls for profit.

I assume you post from a library and live in a cave and do not own any electronic equipment?

1macgeek: oroku_saki: Adding to that, this is also why I want to cockpunch Apple worshippers:

Here's why I want to cockpunch know-nothing wanna-be IT people : Tell us who Ken Thompson, Brian Kernighan, Douglas McIlroy, and Joe Ossanna are. Do you even know?

They are the people on the TEAM with Ritchie that created Unix and C. A team of AT&T employees at Bell Labs that created Unix. So if you want to be correct you would say without AT&T nothing listed in that graphic would have happened. To say it wouldn't have happened without Ritchie just makes you look like a Ritchie-worshipping, know-nothing jackhole fanboy. You know, just like the people you want to cockpunch.

GreenAdder: Apple spent the better part of two decades building their brand around condescension and aspersions. Is it any wonder that people have come to resent them?



Clearly people are resentful of Apple.
Apple made more money from iPhones than Microsoft made in total last quarter. That's a lot of resentment.

Shadow Blasko: Anyone who wants to buy a product made my Foxconn should have to breath N-Hexane for a week or three at the levels the workers are exposed to.

If you can still *use* the phone after that, you can buy it.

Make that standard protocol for any person or business that wants to send jobs offshore.

Nabb1: I love all my iShiat. Most of the stuff in your homes and the clothes on your back are probably made in a foreign country by cheap labor in conditions that would not be acceptable here. You probably prop up even more evil every time you buy chocolate.

And flowers. Look into the flower industry. You can start here. (new window)

Let's face it. Something we own or buy is made by exploited labor.

/now baking an organic potato probably grown by Irish dwarf slaves

Weaver95: thomps: no i think mine is the better question. if you are going to single out apple, provide me with an alternative. asking people to abstain completely from laptops and smartphones is pointless.

I didn't say abstain completely, I asked if you really need the shiny new toy or not. the sales pitch is that if we get the shiny new object then hot chicks will bang the f*ck outta you and that you'll be a god amongst men. that's the job of the sales department - to get you to buy their shiny new object.

I'm suggesting that maybe things would be different (and possibly better?) if we stopped listening to the marketing hype and started to really consider how we spend our money. Now - I like my ipad. But before I bought it, I knew it was a shiny toy. I used disposable income for it, and while its actually proved occasionally useful it remains largely a toy. But do I need it? no. Can i live without it? yup. it's not a be all/end all kinda thing for me. I suspect that if more people had similar attitudes, we'd see less frivilous purchases and the eventual elimination of the iCult.

And in case you're wondering - the iCult is what drives a lot of Apple's stock prices these days. that's why people don't buy 'generic brand' tablet computers. they want the iPad because the marketing people at Apple are really good at their jobs.

Why don't you answer his question? Or can you?

Like Apple groupies give a fuvk if people had to die in thethey making of their latest iToy. Theyll be flocking to the next one like flies to shiat even if the whole Foxconn company goes through on their suicide threat and has to flash hire a bunch of new poor souls to push it out. You iFans know it.

Apple would bat an eyelash at the media and promise some kinda supplier assurance program. Hordes of idiots would eat it up and keep driving record breaking profits into this scum of a corporation.

Cant boycott every company that produces an item in sub US standards, but such a lucrative company could afford to humanize their working conditions.

Darth_Lukecash: Weaver95: Theaetetus: Weaver95: I didn't say abstain completely... Can i live without it? yup.

So... you're suggesting people should abstain completely?

no...i'm saying that before you buy something you should stop and ask yourself WHY you're buying it.

I bought my iPhone for the reason I buy anything. Use it as a multi purpose gadget: phone, game player, music player, video player, Internet player, gps, portable Internet connection clock and alarm.

All I really need is food, shelter and clothing. People who buts apple actually like the product. Has nothing to do about marketing nor being "hip"

That being said: Apples treatment of the Chinese labor is horrible, and I will probabbly not get another iPhone.

Only until the labor force in the world stick together and demand their rights will things change.

Are Android phones any better as far a slave labor goes? I'm guessing they may be in the same boat as Apple. Just a guess, mind you.

Weaver95: EnviroDude: I like to think that I am helping the Chinese by buying stuff from made there. .

nah, you're just dicking them over and subsidizing slave labor.

the difference between us is that I know what Apple is doing and I bought my slave manufactured iPad without remorse while you pretend you have no idea what it is you're supporting and live in fear of ever finding out the truth.

Weaver, you often have a lot of interesting things to say, but this post is the ultimate culmination of Powered By Smug(TM) I've seen you write in a very long time. You honestly feel smugly superior to other people because you gladly buy things knowing about the suffering that went into it and assume that no one else does?

You have crossed into Hipsterdom, Weaver.

theflatline:
Apple makes between a 400 and 500 dollar profit per each new iphone sold, they would lose 65 dollars of that if they were made here.

The phone is cheap to make, and then Apple also gets a cut of the data plans that the carriers charge in the US.

So in reality they would still make an obscene profit on the iphone even it were made here, and would make more money by selling it to patriots and hipsters.

Yeah, sure, they make a $500 profit on each $600 phone. I totally buy that.

The MAXIMUM difference between material cost and retail price is under $400 (32GB version), the lowest end version is just under $250. This is the margin, not the profit. Then Apple gets about $20 in subscription fees per carrier-sold phone, almost negligible. Then the iPhone is used to introduce many much lower margin items to consumers, including the App Store, iTunes, Macs, and TVs, as the iPod did before it, in the hunt for the next big thing, subsidizing several failed products already.

You're right that the phone is relatively cheap to make - what it isn't is cheap to design, sell, and service, including the iOS that comes free with each one. Add all those costs and the profit per phone,the word you used, is substantially less. Still enough to end up with a 40% overall gross profit, so it's a valid discussion to have, but throwing wildly inaccurate numbers out there blows your argument away.

What I find more interesting is how much of this labor is so cheap because the facilities don't pay much if any overhead. The Chinese government builds the facilities and provides free electricity and water. That's why you can buy Chinese steel for less than the cost of the raw materials (ore) delivered to a US steel mill: subsidies. With the massive amounts of loans and improper accounting that have been tracked and reported on repeatedly, I don't see how anyone could think this is sustainable. But that's always our problem, right? Who cares about sustainable as long as there is a new product to buy tomorrow. Not a game I'm interested in playing.

austin_millbarge: Dinki: Steve Jobs " Sure we only employe 43,000 people in the US, while employing 700,000 people in China and other low wage countries. But that's because we couldn't afford to make or assemble the devices here in the US. We simply couldn't afford it."

The rest of us- "What about the $90 BILLION in cash you are sitting on?"

Jobs "...."

That's not what he said when asked that question.

Link (new window)

Nice try though.

Foxconn Technology has dozens of facilities in Asia and Eastern Europe, and in Mexico and Brazil, and it assembles about 40 percent of the world's consumer electronics for customers such as Amazon, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Samsung and Sony.

I ain't casting no stones.

Good article.