If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(CBS News)   You you own an Apple iProduct? Well, then you are a horrible person and you should feel bad   (cbsnews.com) divider line 452
    More: Obvious, biggest companies, Foxconn, iproduct, Shenzhen  
•       •       •

21358 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jan 2012 at 4:56 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



452 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-01-29 06:29:49 PM

Dinki: Jobs "...."


Ha! I get it. Because he's dead!
 
2012-01-29 06:30:27 PM
I don't buy the latest iCrap because that cuts into my booze and fishing budget. The latest iCrap allows others to bother me while I'm fishing. The latest iCrap fails if I get it wet unlike my fishing tackle. When the latest iCrap craps out, it is expensive to replace and stressful unlike when I lose a lure. I'm out at most $7 for a fancy bass plug. The latest iCrap cannot feed your family whereas I can by going fishing.

The results are in. Fishing > electronic gadgets
 
2012-01-29 06:30:53 PM

Darth_Lukecash: Weaver95: Theaetetus: Weaver95: I didn't say abstain completely... Can i live without it? yup.

So... you're suggesting people should abstain completely?

no...i'm saying that before you buy something you should stop and ask yourself WHY you're buying it.

I bought my iPhone for the reason I buy anything. Use it as a multi purpose gadget: phone, game player, music player, video player, Internet player, gps, portable Internet connection clock and alarm.

All I really need is food, shelter and clothing. People who buts apple actually like the product. Has nothing to do about marketing nor being "hip"

That being said: Apples treatment of the Chinese labor is horrible, and I will probabbly not get another iPhone.

Only until the labor force in the world stick together and demand their rights will things change.


A great stance, but make sure to let Apple know the reason why you're doing this. The more consumers speak out about this stuff, the bigger the impact will be.
 
2012-01-29 06:30:57 PM

theflatline: Pollexter: Flint Ironstag: This article, posted above, says building the iPhone in the US would add $65 to each phone. On the iPhones current sales of 37 million in the last three months of 2011 that works out to $10 billion a year extra cost. And that is just the iPhone, not counting the iPad or iPod, or the Macs.
Add them in and suddenly Apple's $28 billion profit is gone. Apple are making a loss.
And that's not counting the cost of building the US facilities and, as the article makes clear, somehow overcoming the logistics and infrastructure available in China.

Here's a novel idea: they could raise the cost of the products to cover the increased costs. They could couple this with a HUGE marketing push highlighting that America's most capable company loves this nation enough to make the phones here, create a huge influx of jobs for Americans, and tell the Chinese to kindly go attempt to enter the 21st century in a manner that does not turn their citizens into slaves.

Naaah, we could never stand for paying another $65 for an iPhone in exchange for that. Nope, better just stick with what's working now.

Apple makes between a 400 and 500 dollar profit per each new iphone sold, they would lose 65 dollars of that if they were made here.

The phone is cheap to make, and then Apple also gets a cut of the data plans that the carriers charge in the US.

So in reality they would still make an obscene profit on the iphone even it were made here, and would make more money by selling it to patriots and hipsters.


$65 per iPhone comes to $10 billion a year. And that's just the iPhone, not the iPad, iPod, Macs, Powerbooks, the accessories etc.

Apples profit was $28 billion. The iPhone alone moving to the US would wipe out more than a third of Apples entire profit. Moving all their products to the US would have Apple losing money each year.
 
2012-01-29 06:32:11 PM
Every time this story "breaks," I sit amazed this shiate isn't being done by robots already.
 
2012-01-29 06:33:27 PM

RandomRandom: The thing is, Apple could easily afford to build their devices in the United States.


No. They. Can't. The New York Times says they can't.

The bottom line is simply this : What Apple can accomplish in fifteen days in China would take NINE MONTHS to happen here. To even consider bringing back manufacturing to the US would be suicide for Apple, and it simply isn't going to happen. Everyone who claims Apple can bring those jobs back is high, stupid, or just a damned fool not worth listening to.

So... which one are you?
 
2012-01-29 06:34:16 PM
I don't care.

sent from my iPhone
 
2012-01-29 06:34:35 PM

Flint Ironstag: Apples profit was $28 billion. The iPhone alone moving to the US would wipe out more than a third of Apples entire profit.


Unless they ADDED $65 to the price and a big MADE IN AMERICA sticker. And I would buy one.

Moran
 
2012-01-29 06:34:45 PM

austin_millbarge: Dinki:
The rest of us- "What about the $90 BILLION in cash you are sitting on?"

Jobs "...."

That's not what he said when asked that question.


This quote from the article was particularly interesting: Apple's executives had estimated 8,700 industrial engineers were needed to oversee and guide the 200,000 assembly-line workers eventually involved in manufacturing iPhones. The company's analysts had forecast it would take up to nine months to find that many qualified engineers in the United States.

If we don't have the quantity of industrial engineering talent-- and good luck getting the ones that are qualified to leave their existing jobs for an unknown-- then we're not going to be able to compete for these jobs no matter how productive the engineers are. It's really hard to find qualified candidates for technical positions in this country which is why we end up importing a lot of talent for the jobs we do have.
 
2012-01-29 06:35:54 PM
Its chinese people being mistreated, whenever real people get mistreated let know and I will act outraged.
 
2012-01-29 06:36:03 PM

d34dr0d3n7: Every time this story "breaks," I sit amazed this shiate isn't being done by robots already.


humans are cheaper. plus, if humans break you can make another one that looks just like the first one and its all good.
 
2012-01-29 06:36:21 PM
Why is it so hard to imagine that people take advantage of others in some form of slavery?

It has been the norm ALL throughout human history, in every culture, place, and time in our history.

I think it is diluted to think that things have changed or ever will. Humans are garbage, peace, love and freedom my ass. It's do, stfu or die.
 
2012-01-29 06:36:31 PM

1macgeek: RandomRandom: The thing is, Apple could easily afford to build their devices in the United States.

No. They. Can't. The New York Times says they can't.

The bottom line is simply this : What Apple can accomplish in fifteen days in China would take NINE MONTHS to happen here. To even consider bringing back manufacturing to the US would be suicide for Apple, and it simply isn't going to happen. Everyone who claims Apple can bring those jobs back is high, stupid, or just a damned fool not worth listening to.

So... which one are you?


The bottom line is simply this : The article has many false assumptions and is wrong.
 
2012-01-29 06:38:01 PM

Flint Ironstag: downtownkid: Flint Ironstag: downtownkid: Flint Ironstag: Dinki: Steve Jobs " Sure we only employe 43,000 people in the US, while employing 700,000 people in China and other low wage countries. But that's because we couldn't afford to make or assemble the devices here in the US. We simply couldn't afford it."

The rest of us- "What about the $90 BILLION in cash you are sitting on?"

Jobs "...."

If he employed workers in the US he'd need twice as many (at least) since US workers won't work 12 hour days six days a week.

At $50k a year that would cost $70 billion. A year.

Apples $90 billion cash would be gone in under 18 months and Apple would be losing $40 billion a year and go bust, losing the jobs of the 42,000 people Apple does employ in the US now.

Happy?


That may well be the dumbest post ever written. Do yourself a favor, don't apply for a job as an economist.

So which particular facts do you disagree with? Or do you think just name calling is just as good as arguing facts?

This article, posted above, says building the iPhone in the US would add $65 to each phone. On the iPhones current sales of 37 million in the last three months of 2011 that works out to $10 billion a year extra cost. And that is just the iPhone, not counting the iPad or iPod, or the Macs.
Add them in and suddenly Apple's $28 billion profit is gone. Apple are making a loss.
And that's not counting the cost of building the US facilities and, as the article makes clear, somehow overcoming the logistics and infrastructure available in China.

So which actual facts or figures are you going to disagree with? Or are you just going to call me names?


Not too good with facts, are you? First, i didn't call you names. I stated that your post was stupid. Which it was.

Economics is an incredibly complex field. If you want to leave it at: "manufacturing Apple products in the US would be prohibitively expensive", I might grant you that. But saying "If he employed workers in the US he'd need ...



No, dude, it is not that only one of your assertions is wrong. I thought that pointing out the complete lack of reality behind your first claim would be enough to make it clear that they are all equally fallacious. I'm trying to let you off easy here. You want to keep going? You are pulling numbers from different articles and making broad assumptions to support your thesis, that is completely stupid. Only a jackass would keep claiming the factuality of such statements.

The most cursory reading of your posts shows your penchant for pulling meaningless numbers out of your ass. Again, your general concept may be correct but your head is waaaay up your ass when it comes to using actual data to support it.
 
2012-01-29 06:39:14 PM

pippi longstocking: . Humans are garbage, peace, love and freedom my ass. It's do, stfu or die.


that's just the tea party. I think the only thing you really can affect is what's going on in your immediate area. which is what people should do no matter what god you follow.
 
2012-01-29 06:39:49 PM

1macgeek: RandomRandom: The thing is, Apple could easily afford to build their devices in the United States.

No. They. Can't. The New York Times says they can't.

The bottom line is simply this : What Apple can accomplish in fifteen days in China would take NINE MONTHS to happen here. To even consider bringing back manufacturing to the US would be suicide for Apple, and it simply isn't going to happen. Everyone who claims Apple can bring those jobs back is high, stupid, or just a damned fool not worth listening to.

So... which one are you?


They are lying to you. The cost of labor per unit, whether food, sneakers, or electronics, is effectively nil.
 
2012-01-29 06:39:53 PM

Smeggy Smurf: I don't buy the latest iCrap because that cuts into my booze and fishing budget. The latest iCrap allows others to bother me while I'm fishing. The latest iCrap fails if I get it wet unlike my fishing tackle. When the latest iCrap craps out, it is expensive to replace and stressful unlike when I lose a lure. I'm out at most $7 for a fancy bass plug. The latest iCrap cannot feed your family whereas I can by going fishing.

The results are in. Fishing > electronic gadgets


That's why I have a 4x4 truck(Ford Made in St. Louis) , a surfboard(Rusty Made in the US), and a mountain bike (sadly I couldn't find a mountain bike that was made without Chinese parts). Who needs the latest gadget?
 
2012-01-29 06:40:59 PM

Flint Ironstag: theflatline: Pollexter: Flint Ironstag: This article, posted above, says building the iPhone in the US would add $65 to each phone. On the iPhones current sales of 37 million in the last three months of 2011 that works out to $10 billion a year extra cost. And that is just the iPhone, not counting the iPad or iPod, or the Macs.
Add them in and suddenly Apple's $28 billion profit is gone. Apple are making a loss.
And that's not counting the cost of building the US facilities and, as the article makes clear, somehow overcoming the logistics and infrastructure available in China.

Here's a novel idea: they could raise the cost of the products to cover the increased costs. They could couple this with a HUGE marketing push highlighting that America's most capable company loves this nation enough to make the phones here, create a huge influx of jobs for Americans, and tell the Chinese to kindly go attempt to enter the 21st century in a manner that does not turn their citizens into slaves.

Naaah, we could never stand for paying another $65 for an iPhone in exchange for that. Nope, better just stick with what's working now.

Apple makes between a 400 and 500 dollar profit per each new iphone sold, they would lose 65 dollars of that if they were made here.

The phone is cheap to make, and then Apple also gets a cut of the data plans that the carriers charge in the US.

So in reality they would still make an obscene profit on the iphone even it were made here, and would make more money by selling it to patriots and hipsters.

$65 per iPhone comes to $10 billion a year. And that's just the iPhone, not the iPad, iPod, Macs, Powerbooks, the accessories etc.

Apples profit was $28 billion. The iPhone alone moving to the US would wipe out more than a third of Apples entire profit. Moving all their products to the US would have Apple losing money each year.


So you raise the price. You know. Economics.
 
2012-01-29 06:41:59 PM
blah blah blah...

nearly every major consumer electronic product is made in the same type of places, some by the same companies that produce the apple products.

Xbox 360s and other microsoft electronics, PS3s, various phones, tablets, e-readers, handheld gaming devices, flat panel tv's etc. etc. etc.

Why single out the apple brand without at least stating that?
 
2012-01-29 06:44:09 PM

pippi longstocking: Why is it so hard to imagine that people take advantage of others in some form of slavery?

It has been the norm ALL throughout human history, in every culture, place, and time in our history.

I think it is diluted to think that things have changed or ever will. Humans are garbage, peace, love and freedom my ass. It's do, stfu or die.


Somebody at one point said that if slavery was abolished the price of tobacco and cotton would be $10,000 per unit, they'd all go out of business, and cats and dogs would hold hands and pigs would fly.

It didn't.
 
2012-01-29 06:45:56 PM

Without Fail: The bottom line is simply this : The article has many false assumptions and is wrong


Which you, of course, listed in painstaking detail.
 
2012-01-29 06:47:37 PM

1macgeek: Without Fail: The bottom line is simply this : The article has many false assumptions and is wrong

Which you, of course, listed in painstaking detail.


Your Fark handle says that your IDENTITY is based on the Apple products you buy.

Why don't you go to the 'Mothership' and have some KoolAid, zealot?
 
2012-01-29 06:47:47 PM

farkeruk: Heron: Oh, ok. So it's totally fine to encourage US corporations to use child labor in toxic conditions just so long as they aren't doing so in US territory. Oh wait; I guess we need to make that the 50 States, considering how many "Made in the USA" textiles come out of sweatshops in American Samoa.

I have no faith in Apple's concern about child labour. Jobs may have made amazing products, but he was also a son of a biatch as a human being. China is a corrupt country. And I know what inspection companies are about - a rubber stamp, but they also mean that you can create some distance between the brand and the quality of the inspections. If someone realises that they don't do their job well, you can say how terrible it is and then fire them.


I was responding to Gat's post that the raft of laws encouraging outsourcing to low labor protection states was "completely different" morally from directly using child labor. Frankly, I don't see the significant ethical difference between telling a factory owner "you can use child labor" and "you can use child labor, but do it off shore". If anything it seems to me like a deceptive dodge that allows you to keep portraying yourself as a humanitarian despite your comfort with abusive labor practices.

Regarding inspection corps, I think they can be effective. Third party and government inspections were very successful at ensuring compliance in the US up until we started gutting the relevant oversight agencies and trivializing punishment for violations back in the 80s. To be effective, however, they need to have real teeth, and they need to get their funding and authority from third party's with a real interest in ensuring good conditions. If your government is in bed with the factory owners (or in China's case, is, more often than not, the factory owner via CCP membership), or if the inspection agencies rely for their funding on the industry they inspects (like the financial ratings agencies), or if your inspectors have no real power to make taking shortcuts more expensive than abiding by the rules (like US inspectors regarding everything from imports, to airplanes, to mines, to food), then they are, as you say, a farce. This is why an active civil society willing to use protests, votes, and their wallets to ensure healthy and fair working conditions, is so important.
 
2012-01-29 06:48:21 PM

ChuDogg: They are lying to you. The cost of labor per unit, whether food, sneakers, or electronics, is effectively nil.


Which is why you would have learned, had you actually read the article, this was pointed out. What the article takes more pains to point out, and which zooms completely over your head with the ferocity of a jet fighter on full afterburner, is the opportunity costs.
 
2012-01-29 06:50:40 PM

1macgeek: RandomRandom: The thing is, Apple could easily afford to build their devices in the United States.

No. They. Can't. The New York Times says they can't.

The bottom line is simply this : What Apple can accomplish in fifteen days in China would take NINE MONTHS to happen here. To even consider bringing back manufacturing to the US would be suicide for Apple, and it simply isn't going to happen. Everyone who claims Apple can bring those jobs back is high, stupid, or just a damned fool not worth listening to.

So... which one are you?


Korea builds devices in the first world, so does Nokia and HTC, and they do it at lower price points than Apple. It is provable that Apple could - if they wanted - build their devices in the US, and do so profitably.

If they build it, they will come. Apple drives this business. If they wanted to build in the US, they could build in the US. Could they move everything overnight? No, it would cost them a huge amount to move everything overnight, perhaps even as much as $65 per phone.

They wouldn't move everything overnight, they'd do it incrementally. Were they to slowly move manufacturing to heavily automated factories in the US, perhaps starting with some halo device, a supply chain would very quickly appear. They wouldn't need twice as many workers as they have in China, they'd probably need half as many, or less. Automation is becoming so good that only the trickiest of assemblies truly need to be done by hand.

If Apple were to build even a single device in the US, just one - the supply chain would quickly follow. An incremental move back the the US would cost Apple very little. As the NYT article points out, the real cost isn't labor, it's the supply chain. That supply chain could be brought back - any Apple device could be build in the US, and probably for a tiny premium over what it costs them in China.

If a supply chain were slowly rebuilt in the US, the premium wouldn't be anywhere near $65 per phone, once shipping costs were removed, I doubt it would be much more than $10, perhaps less.
 
2012-01-29 06:50:50 PM

msupf: Why single out the apple brand without at least stating that?


Because writing ANYTHING about Apple gets headlines. Shocking headline = more page hits.

Everyone does it. Go to Marketwatch.com and see how many stock articles written just mention Apple even if it has nothing to do with them just so they can get page hits from it.
 
2012-01-29 06:52:30 PM

1macgeek: ChuDogg: They are lying to you. The cost of labor per unit, whether food, sneakers, or electronics, is effectively nil.

Which is why you would have learned, had you actually read the article, this was pointed out. What the article takes more pains to point out, and which zooms completely over your head with the ferocity of a jet fighter on full afterburner, is the opportunity costs.


And was based on the false assumptions that these devices would have to be built just as they are in China.

Example: The article states that there are no metro areas with enough manpower.

DECENTRALIZE!

More than one factory would fix that. The other arguments are equally stupid.
 
2012-01-29 06:56:15 PM

lennavan: Dinki: Steve Jobs " Sure we only employe 43,000 people in the US, while employing 700,000 people in China and other low wage countries. But that's because we couldn't afford to make or assemble the devices here in the US. We simply couldn't afford it."

The rest of us- "What about the $90 BILLION in cash you are sitting on?"

Jobs "...."

This came up on the Shark Tank the other day. Some guy from North Carolina had a product that was profitable, he wanted to scale up so he needed an investor. Every single shark asked him to produce it overseas, the guy (seriously near tears) said he wanted to use his product to help his community that was hurting from the down economy. He wanted it to be made in the U.S. knowing that meant less profits. Every single shark turned him down saying they'd want to make it overseas. They even brought up Apple as an example of how to do it. Nice to know American investors and businesses want to keep China's economy going.


Well China is their shangra-la; the perfect example of what the unrestricted, state-sponsored free-market can do. Never forget that there is a healthy dose of ideology in the happy China-boosting of US business and Financial elites. To those people, a government that ignores environmental degradation, allows you to fire without compensation workers maimed in your plant, encourages you to ignore safety for the sake of profit, helps you persecute those who speak out against conditions, and arrests, marginalizes, or kills anyone who attempts to organize other workers in protest, is a government that pursues "smart policies". Think about that the next time you watch Charlie Rose and see some Goldman-Sachs flunky praising the CCP.
 
2012-01-29 06:57:37 PM
You don't need a full boycott to make Apple pay attention- they currently say that 62% of their suppliers are not in compliance with their own standards. Just boycott their next big product launch one day for every percentage that they are out of compliance.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/jan/29/apple-faces-boycott- w orker-abuses
 
2012-01-29 07:04:41 PM

bhcompy: Flint Ironstag: theflatline: Pollexter: Flint Ironstag: This article, posted above, says building the iPhone in the US would add $65 to each phone. On the iPhones current sales of 37 million in the last three months of 2011 that works out to $10 billion a year extra cost. And that is just the iPhone, not counting the iPad or iPod, or the Macs.
Add them in and suddenly Apple's $28 billion profit is gone. Apple are making a loss.
And that's not counting the cost of building the US facilities and, as the article makes clear, somehow overcoming the logistics and infrastructure available in China.

Here's a novel idea: they could raise the cost of the products to cover the increased costs. They could couple this with a HUGE marketing push highlighting that America's most capable company loves this nation enough to make the phones here, create a huge influx of jobs for Americans, and tell the Chinese to kindly go attempt to enter the 21st century in a manner that does not turn their citizens into slaves.

Naaah, we could never stand for paying another $65 for an iPhone in exchange for that. Nope, better just stick with what's working now.

Apple makes between a 400 and 500 dollar profit per each new iphone sold, they would lose 65 dollars of that if they were made here.

The phone is cheap to make, and then Apple also gets a cut of the data plans that the carriers charge in the US.

So in reality they would still make an obscene profit on the iphone even it were made here, and would make more money by selling it to patriots and hipsters.

$65 per iPhone comes to $10 billion a year. And that's just the iPhone, not the iPad, iPod, Macs, Powerbooks, the accessories etc.

Apples profit was $28 billion. The iPhone alone moving to the US would wipe out more than a third of Apples entire profit. Moving all their products to the US would have Apple losing money each year.

So you raise the price. You know. Economics.


So more people go with the cheaper alternative. You know. Economics. Sure, a relatively marginal group may pay the higher price, the majority would probably not. Apple was failing when they offshored their manufacturing. There's a reason that was so, and it wasn't their marketing.
 
2012-01-29 07:05:17 PM

Without Fail: And was based on the false assumptions that these devices would have to be built just as they are in China.

Example: The article states that there are no metro areas with enough manpower.

DECENTRALIZE!

More than one factory would fix that. The other arguments are equally stupid.


You're exactly right.

With the latest in automation, no where near as many workers would be needed to build devices in the US. Apple and Foxconn use lots of tiny hands to put screens in devices, but machines can ususally do the same job, cheaper. , Well, cheaper in places that actually enforce labor safety laws. In China, it's still a little bit cheaper to use lots of tiny hands.

A number of US manufacturing companies have started moving production back the US, because their Chinese partners were stealing their plans and producing counterfeit devices, sometimes even running cleans, making extras on the same factory line on secret night shifts.

Manufacturing automation and machine vision systems have improved dramatically over the past decade. China's labor advantage is quickly slipping away. The supply chain that was built on top of the cheap labor is their current leg up, but supply chains can be rebuilt.

If Apple wanted to build in the US, they could do it, quite easily. It would take time, but an incremental move really wouldn't cost them much, especially considering the savings they'd recoup in shipping and time to market.
 
2012-01-29 07:05:24 PM

urban.derelict: [lh4.googleusercontent.com image 300x376]

Steve came back to Apple with its abysmal 18-month supply of just churning out computers which no one was buying and streamlined the company and its products down to a simple 4 machines, using legally-allowed overseas manufacture in order to keep up in the market and compete the same as every other company tried to do, and he did it with a product line that far surpasses competitors in style.

He wasn't the only one to attempt this; however he was the most successful. You can't single out Steve without pointing fingers at the CEOs of all the major oil cartels, the CEOs of Walmart, Dell, BMW, etc.


And where was Windows producing its Software when Gates was still running the place as Jobs was off-shoring to China? Then there's that whole Gates foundation thing; for all his brilliance, Jobs wasn't exactly known for his philanthropy. You ask me, the favorite "villain" of Mac fanboys the world over was a far more ethical industrialist than your guru ever was. You want him to be a Tesla, but really, he was a Ford through and through.
 
2012-01-29 07:06:29 PM

RandomRandom: Samsung made the screen - in Korea.
Samsung made the processor - in Korea.
Samsung made the flash RAM- in Korea.
Final assembly of the device was done - in Korea.


Are you sure about that? If they can make the entire thing in South Korea that's awesome. But my old Samsung LCD monitor wasn't entirely made in South Korea, and I know at least (some?) of their phones are a mix of Chinese and Korean parts.


Apple fans cannot honestly say "everyone else does this too". Firstly, that doesn't make it right, and secondly, it's a lie.

It's far from a lie, maybe a slight exaggeration but not a lie. I absolutely agree that it shouldn't be this way. But let's not suddenly forget the past decades of liberalized capitalism (Alan Greenspan, the rise of "free trade," etc) and instead blame this entire system of worker exploitation on one company. That's not right either.

The article in question doesn't even provide a compelling reason for targeting Apple over any other country in the industry aside from "they want to be an industry leader." Talk about weak reasoning.

And sure, I agree that what these companies are doing isn't entirely right, but it's legal. When companies (or people, for that matter) do things that are wrong but legal, why not change the law?


If you want a tablet or phone that is not built by slave labor, you can definitely buy one today. A damn good one.

Maybe, but let's not gloss over the difference between "a shiatty, horrible, dangerous job" and "slavery." If we got on a time machine and went back to the industrial revolution in America and told the workers that as far as we could tell they were indistinguishable from slaves, I can't help but to imagine that they'd be very offended; same goes for the workers at Foxconn.

The This American Life episode on this subject is worth a listen. It's grim yet insightful; there's a sense of why people want to work these awful jobs, which isn't easy to understand for those of us living in a very different world.
 
2012-01-29 07:07:51 PM
You you own an Apple iProduct? Well, then you are a horrible person and you should feel bad

You you own an Apple iProduct? Well, then you are a horrible person and you should feel bad

You you own an Apple iProduct? Well, then you are a horrible person and you should feel bad

/Doh!!!
 
2012-01-29 07:08:25 PM

urban.derelict: [lh4.googleusercontent.com image 300x376]

Steve came back to Apple with its abysmal 18-month supply of just churning out computers which no one was buying and streamlined the company and its products down to a simple 4 machines, using legally-allowed overseas manufacture in order to keep up in the market and compete the same as every other company tried to do, and he did it with a product line that far surpasses competitors in style.

He wasn't the only one to attempt this; however he was the most successful. You can't single out Steve without pointing fingers at the CEOs of all the major oil cartels, the CEOs of Walmart, Dell, BMW, etc.


Steve Jobs stopped all corporate charitable contributions when he returned to Apple.
Since his death they have started again.

Steve Jobs max net worth $7 billion.


Bill Gates cured polio in India. Malaria and AIDS in other nations.

Bill Gates max net worth $60 billion.


WHERE IS YOUR HIPSTER GOD NOW?
 
2012-01-29 07:09:08 PM

RandomRandom: Without Fail: And was based on the false assumptions that these devices would have to be built just as they are in China.

Example: The article states that there are no metro areas with enough manpower.

DECENTRALIZE!

More than one factory would fix that. The other arguments are equally stupid.

You're exactly right.

With the latest in automation, no where near as many workers would be needed to build devices in the US. Apple and Foxconn use lots of tiny hands to put screens in devices, but machines can ususally do the same job, cheaper. , Well, cheaper in places that actually enforce labor safety laws. In China, it's still a little bit cheaper to use lots of tiny hands.

A number of US manufacturing companies have started moving production back the US, because their Chinese partners were stealing their plans and producing counterfeit devices, sometimes even running cleans, making extras on the same factory line on secret night shifts.

Manufacturing automation and machine vision systems have improved dramatically over the past decade. China's labor advantage is quickly slipping away. The supply chain that was built on top of the cheap labor is their current leg up, but supply chains can be rebuilt.

If Apple wanted to build in the US, they could do it, quite easily. It would take time, but an incremental move really wouldn't cost them much, especially considering the savings they'd recoup in shipping and time to market.


Not to mention the latest fabricators/3D printers. No matter what material you're working in, these days there's probably a reprogrammable automated laser cutter than can process it to a far greater precision than 10000 hand laborers ever could, and do it faster.
 
2012-01-29 07:09:20 PM

MrEricSir: When companies (or people, for that matter) do things that are wrong but legal, why not change the law?


People say that a lot. "If you don't like the law, why not change it?". Because that's not possible?
 
2012-01-29 07:09:25 PM

Heron: urban.derelict: [lh4.googleusercontent.com image 300x376]

Steve came back to Apple with its abysmal 18-month supply of just churning out computers which no one was buying and streamlined the company and its products down to a simple 4 machines, using legally-allowed overseas manufacture in order to keep up in the market and compete the same as every other company tried to do, and he did it with a product line that far surpasses competitors in style.

He wasn't the only one to attempt this; however he was the most successful. You can't single out Steve without pointing fingers at the CEOs of all the major oil cartels, the CEOs of Walmart, Dell, BMW, etc.

0/10 again.

Microsoft doesn't make hardware retard. (And the hardware they do make now? China...)

And where was Windows producing its Software when Gates was still running the place as Jobs was off-shoring to China? Then there's that whole Gates foundation thing; for all his brilliance, Jobs wasn't exactly known for his philanthropy. You ask me, the favorite "villain" of Mac fanboys the world over was a far more ethical industrialist than your guru ever was. You want him to be a Tesla, but really, he was a Ford through and through.

 
2012-01-29 07:10:22 PM

Heron: And where was Windows producing its Software when Gates was still running the place as Jobs was off-shoring to China?


0/10. Not going to get any bites with this one.
 
2012-01-29 07:10:22 PM
I stopped at the point where they agreeably pay twice as much for the same damn thing that performs the same exact set of functions. And is probably made on the same assembly line by the same workers and from the same parts.

It is kind of fun to try and pin them down on what they mean when they try and justify the purchase by saying things like "Its more elegant", "more fun" and "easier to use". After two or three iterations where they never become more specific about what makes it more elegant, fun or easier and you dont let it go, they get mad and yell a lot.
 
2012-01-29 07:11:35 PM

Mugato: People say that a lot. "If you don't like the law, why not change it?". Because that's not possible?


So you don't live in a country with democratic elections? I don't follow.
 
2012-01-29 07:12:29 PM
Wow. I knew the bright, shiny, "stick-it-to-the-man" facade would fall after Steve Jobs died, I just never thought it would fall this fast.

Bet the advertising firms that preached "marketing is law" are having fits about now.
 
2012-01-29 07:13:21 PM

bow: Mike Daisey was on This American Life, and it was a really good episode.

Check it out (new window)


Man that was really depressing...
 
2012-01-29 07:15:14 PM
I loved this part:

""Why are we talking about Apple here as opposed to, say, Microsoft or Dell or Samsung or any of the other companies that contract with the Foxconns of the world?" Teichner asked."

Probably because those guys charge reasonable prices and ordinary profits. They dont double or triple the profit they make off the backs of hard working Chinese.
 
2012-01-29 07:16:33 PM

MrEricSir: Mugato: People say that a lot. "If you don't like the law, why not change it?". Because that's not possible?

So you don't live in a country with democratic elections? I don't follow.


Because there are a bunch of other people in the community who DO like the law, and want it to stay, and are quite willing to outvote the person who doesn't like the law every time a referendum is called.

/democracy is great, until people decide to have individual opinions... then a socialist dictatorship run by ME is better
 
2012-01-29 07:16:55 PM

thomps: no i think mine is the better question. if you are going to single out apple, provide me with an alternative. asking people to abstain completely from laptops and smartphones is pointless.


Really? I've managed to get a long just fine without them, I don't need a phone that surfs porn, I need it to call people or text, plain and simple. And I build my own computers, wtf would I need a laptop for, so I can be entertained by a computer when I'm out in the woods or on a boat? That's time for unplugging, an activity that has completely gone out of style into the narcissistic world of the iGen.
 
2012-01-29 07:16:56 PM

Flint Ironstag: downtownkid: Flint Ironstag: Dinki: Steve Jobs " Sure we only employe 43,000 people in the US, while employing 700,000 people in China and other low wage countries. But that's because we couldn't afford to make or assemble the devices here in the US. We simply couldn't afford it."

The rest of us- "What about the $90 BILLION in cash you are sitting on?"

Jobs "...."

If he employed workers in the US he'd need twice as many (at least) since US workers won't work 12 hour days six days a week.

At $50k a year that would cost $70 billion. A year.

Apples $90 billion cash would be gone in under 18 months and Apple would be losing $40 billion a year and go bust, losing the jobs of the 42,000 people Apple does employ in the US now.

Happy?


That may well be the dumbest post ever written. Do yourself a favor, don't apply for a job as an economist.

So which particular facts do you disagree with? Or do you think just name calling is just as good as arguing facts?

This article, posted above, says building the iPhone in the US would add $65 to each phone. On the iPhones current sales of 37 million in the last three months of 2011 that works out to $10 billion a year extra cost. And that is just the iPhone, not counting the iPad or iPod, or the Macs.
Add them in and suddenly Apple's $28 billion profit is gone. Apple are making a loss.
And that's not counting the cost of building the US facilities and, as the article makes clear, somehow overcoming the logistics and infrastructure available in China.

So which actual facts or figures are you going to disagree with? Or are you just going to call me names?


An iPhone costs approximately $188 to make, they sell them for $660 and up, People get them cheap due to their contracts with cell phone providers. So, if they make them here in the US it would be around $250 per phone? As it is now, they make a 75% profit on each phone. Seems to me they could afford to lose a few percentage points in profit and still do damn well.

Link (new window)
 
2012-01-29 07:19:46 PM
I just want to know what the actual production costs are per unit. That iPhone does not cost $00 to make in China. Not even a tenth of that. anyone that pays 900% markup for a shiny toy deserves the emptiness that is being created in their lives.
 
2012-01-29 07:20:01 PM
 
2012-01-29 07:20:08 PM
Have fun managing a sweatshop!

Link (new window)
 
Displayed 50 of 452 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report