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(CBS News)   You you own an Apple iProduct? Well, then you are a horrible person and you should feel bad   (cbsnews.com) divider line 452
    More: Obvious, biggest companies, Foxconn, iproduct, Shenzhen  
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21359 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jan 2012 at 4:56 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-29 09:57:28 AM
I know it's considered cool and trendy to hate people who are rich and successful, but Steve Jobs is hardly the only person who does this.
 
2012-01-29 10:14:00 AM
Steve Jobs " Sure we only employe 43,000 people in the US, while employing 700,000 people in China and other low wage countries. But that's because we couldn't afford to make or assemble the devices here in the US. We simply couldn't afford it."

The rest of us- "What about the $90 BILLION in cash you are sitting on?"

Jobs "...."
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2012-01-29 10:43:34 AM
Americans and people of the world need to wake up and demand that products be built without the modern equivalent of slavery. They need to protest by not buying those products.

Right now, American jobs are pouring into nations that employ people who work 7 days per week for 30 cents per hour in horrible conditions. They work in dangerous contaminated conditions. They're so overwhelmed they hold mass "suicide protests". They employ children at starvation wages. They have 8 or more people living in a factory dormitory and are ordered not to speak to one another or even share names.

When you pick up that iPad, that Dell laptop, the Lenovo Laptop you're promoting human suffering for profit. It's just that simple. You care part of the problem. This has nothing to do with being angry at successful rich companies. EVERYONE likes to see American companies be prosperous and successful. But if they do so by creating or escalating human suffering, if they do so by contaminating our water and living environments, then they DESERVE our contempt.

Right now, we have politicians in Washington fighting to repeal American child labor laws, eliminate the EPA and eliminate standardized education by eliminating the Dept of Education. Basically the dream is to employ Americans in the same conditions described above. Once the environmental laws are eliminated, once the child labor laws are repealed and once local school officials can be bought off so they release children from the being educated, our factories will consume their little souls for profit.
 
2012-01-29 10:46:43 AM

NFA: Right now, we have politicians REPUBLICANS in Washington fighting to repeal American child labor laws, eliminate the EPA and eliminate standardized education by eliminating the Dept of Education.


This is not a cross-party fight. It is exclusively the Republicans who are trying to turn America back to the 19th century.
 
2012-01-29 10:51:32 AM
No no I don't.
 
2012-01-29 11:07:55 AM

GAT_00: NFA: Right now, we have politicians REPUBLICANS in Washington fighting to repeal American child labor laws, eliminate the EPA and eliminate standardized education by eliminating the Dept of Education.

This is not a cross-party fight. It is exclusively the Republicans who are trying to turn America back to the 19th century.


Not that I am a fan of the Repubs, but Clinton happily accepted kickbacks from the Chinese to look the other way, when it came to their own trade practice.
 
2012-01-29 11:12:14 AM
I I don't feel bad either.
 
2012-01-29 11:20:19 AM
And you paid way to much money for your inferior product.
 
2012-01-29 11:34:11 AM

LordZorch: And you paid way to much money for your inferior product.


But....but...but... it's so hip and trendy. Look at all the A-List celebrities who use it. If I buy one and use it, I'll be just as cool as they are
 
2012-01-29 11:36:06 AM

Trance750: GAT_00: NFA: Right now, we have politicians REPUBLICANS in Washington fighting to repeal American child labor laws, eliminate the EPA and eliminate standardized education by eliminating the Dept of Education.

This is not a cross-party fight. It is exclusively the Republicans who are trying to turn America back to the 19th century.

Not that I am a fan of the Repubs, but Clinton happily accepted kickbacks from the Chinese to look the other way, when it came to their own trade practice.


That's not even close to the same thing as trying to repeal child labor laws. Your false equivalence is bad and you should feel bad.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2012-01-29 11:43:25 AM

GAT_00: This is not a cross-party fight. It is exclusively the Republicans who are trying to turn America back to the 19th century.


I stand corrected.

The problem is that American's keep electing idiots who are not working in our best interest. Republicans and Democrats but truthfully lately it's been nearly 100% Republican attacks on best interest of Americans.
 
bow [TotalFark]
2012-01-29 12:05:46 PM
Mike Daisey was on This American Life, and it was a really good episode.

Check it out (new window)
 
2012-01-29 12:52:55 PM

GAT_00: NFA: Right now, we have politicians REPUBLICANS in Washington fighting to repeal American child labor laws, eliminate the EPA and eliminate standardized education by eliminating the Dept of Education.

This is not a cross-party fight. It is exclusively the Republicans who are trying to turn America back to the 19th century.


well...there's a couple/few democrats who chip in to help the corporations out from time to time but yes - this is largely a GOP led drive to the bottom.

when in doubt always follow the money.
 
2012-01-29 01:02:48 PM
so what equivalent consumer electronics should i buy that doesn't employ similar manufacturing practices?
 
2012-01-29 01:08:30 PM

thomps: so what equivalent consumer electronics should i buy that doesn't employ similar manufacturing practices?


a better question would be - do you really NEED a shiny new iPhone or iPad? I mean i've got a first gen iPad but...I don't actually need it. its a nice toy, and I use it for my tabletop RPG and wargames...but I don't actually need it. my life doesn't depend on having an iPad.
 
2012-01-29 01:13:00 PM

Weaver95: thomps: so what equivalent consumer electronics should i buy that doesn't employ similar manufacturing practices?

a better question would be - do you really NEED a shiny new iPhone or iPad? I mean i've got a first gen iPad but...I don't actually need it. its a nice toy, and I use it for my tabletop RPG and wargames...but I don't actually need it. my life doesn't depend on having an iPad.


no i think mine is the better question. if you are going to single out apple, provide me with an alternative. asking people to abstain completely from laptops and smartphones is pointless.
 
2012-01-29 01:31:39 PM

thomps: no i think mine is the better question. if you are going to single out apple, provide me with an alternative. asking people to abstain completely from laptops and smartphones is pointless.


I didn't say abstain completely, I asked if you really need the shiny new toy or not. the sales pitch is that if we get the shiny new object then hot chicks will bang the f*ck outta you and that you'll be a god amongst men. that's the job of the sales department - to get you to buy their shiny new object.

I'm suggesting that maybe things would be different (and possibly better?) if we stopped listening to the marketing hype and started to really consider how we spend our money. Now - I like my ipad. But before I bought it, I knew it was a shiny toy. I used disposable income for it, and while its actually proved occasionally useful it remains largely a toy. But do I need it? no. Can i live without it? yup. it's not a be all/end all kinda thing for me. I suspect that if more people had similar attitudes, we'd see less frivilous purchases and the eventual elimination of the iCult.

And in case you're wondering - the iCult is what drives a lot of Apple's stock prices these days. that's why people don't buy 'generic brand' tablet computers. they want the iPad because the marketing people at Apple are really good at their jobs.
 
2012-01-29 01:38:02 PM

Weaver95: thomps: no i think mine is the better question. if you are going to single out apple, provide me with an alternative. asking people to abstain completely from laptops and smartphones is pointless.

I didn't say abstain completely, I asked if you really need the shiny new toy or not. the sales pitch is that if we get the shiny new object then hot chicks will bang the f*ck outta you and that you'll be a god amongst men. that's the job of the sales department - to get you to buy their shiny new object.

I'm suggesting that maybe things would be different (and possibly better?) if we stopped listening to the marketing hype and started to really consider how we spend our money. Now - I like my ipad. But before I bought it, I knew it was a shiny toy. I used disposable income for it, and while its actually proved occasionally useful it remains largely a toy. But do I need it? no. Can i live without it? yup. it's not a be all/end all kinda thing for me. I suspect that if more people had similar attitudes, we'd see less frivilous purchases and the eventual elimination of the iCult.

And in case you're wondering - the iCult is what drives a lot of Apple's stock prices these days. that's why people don't buy 'generic brand' tablet computers. they want the iPad because the marketing people at Apple are really good at their jobs.


what does the "iCult" have to do with the labor practices of the tech industry's foreign supply chain?
 
2012-01-29 01:51:53 PM
Anyone who wants to buy a product made my Foxconn should have to breath N-Hexane for a week or three at the levels the workers are exposed to.

If you can still *use* the phone after that, you can buy it.
 
2012-01-29 01:56:00 PM

Weaver95: I didn't say abstain completely... Can i live without it? yup.


So... you're suggesting people should abstain completely?
 
2012-01-29 01:56:37 PM

thomps: what does the "iCult" have to do with the labor practices of the tech industry's foreign supply chain?


did you miss my point about technology marketing....?
 
2012-01-29 01:58:53 PM

Weaver95: thomps: what does the "iCult" have to do with the labor practices of the tech industry's foreign supply chain?

did you miss my point about technology marketing....?


i missed it's relevance to the topic, yes. if anything, apple's larger reliance on marketing than low cost should make it less beholden to upstream supply chain cost reductions than their competitors.
 
2012-01-29 01:59:39 PM

Dinki: Steve Jobs " Sure we only employe 43,000 people in the US, while employing 700,000 people in China and other low wage countries. But that's because we couldn't afford to make or assemble the devices here in the US. We simply couldn't afford it."

The rest of us- "What about the $90 BILLION in cash you are sitting on?"

Jobs "...."


If he employed workers in the US he'd need twice as many (at least) since US workers won't work 12 hour days six days a week.

At $50k a year that would cost $70 billion. A year.

Apples $90 billion cash would be gone in under 18 months and Apple would be losing $40 billion a year and go bust, losing the jobs of the 42,000 people Apple does employ in the US now.

Happy?
 
2012-01-29 02:04:13 PM

Theaetetus: Weaver95: I didn't say abstain completely... Can i live without it? yup.

So... you're suggesting people should abstain completely?


no...i'm saying that before you buy something you should stop and ask yourself WHY you're buying it.
 
2012-01-29 02:09:41 PM
I love all my iShiat. Most of the stuff in your homes and the clothes on your back are probably made in a foreign country by cheap labor in conditions that would not be acceptable here. You probably prop up even more evil every time you buy chocolate.
 
2012-01-29 02:11:54 PM
I don't have any iGadgets but I do use Apple software for the video editing/motion graphics and 3D FX I do because they integrate together so well. But it looks like Apple is abandoning all of that in favor of the iGadgets. No sweat off my sack, I guess. I'll just cut in Avid and use PC products. It won't be as convenient but it they don't need me, I don't need them.
 
2012-01-29 02:13:51 PM

Weaver95: Theaetetus: Weaver95: I didn't say abstain completely... Can i live without it? yup.

So... you're suggesting people should abstain completely?

no...i'm saying that before you buy something you should stop and ask yourself WHY you're buying it.


so i can strap a fleshlight to the back of it (new window) and f*ck it?

/is the fleshlight at least manufactured with fair labor practices?
 
2012-01-29 02:27:23 PM

Weaver95: Theaetetus: Weaver95: I didn't say abstain completely... Can i live without it? yup.

So... you're suggesting people should abstain completely?

no...i'm saying that before you buy something you should stop and ask yourself WHY you're buying it.


... and since you're constantly pushing the "you don't really need it" concept, then under your theory, the logical conclusion is that they shouldn't buy it... In other words, "abstain completely."

Which is fine, if you want to live in a shack off the grid. I mean, sure, no one really needs cars, or digital watches, or a computer. You won't die without it. But I personally don't see the point in such abstention.
 
2012-01-29 02:39:39 PM

Weaver95: Theaetetus: Weaver95: I didn't say abstain completely... Can i live without it? yup.

So... you're suggesting people should abstain completely?

no...i'm saying that before you buy something you should stop and ask yourself WHY you're buying it.


I bought my iPhone for the reason I buy anything. Use it as a multi purpose gadget: phone, game player, music player, video player, Internet player, gps, portable Internet connection clock and alarm.

All I really need is food, shelter and clothing. People who buts apple actually like the product. Has nothing to do about marketing nor being "hip"

That being said: Apples treatment of the Chinese labor is horrible, and I will probabbly not get another iPhone.

Only until the labor force in the world stick together and demand their rights will things change.
 
2012-01-29 02:46:42 PM

Flint Ironstag: If he employed workers in the US he'd need twice as many (at least) since US workers won't work 12 hour days six days a week.

At $50k a year that would cost $70 billion. A year.

Apples $90 billion cash would be gone in under 18 months and Apple would be losing $40 billion a year and go bust, losing the jobs of the 42,000 people Apple does employ in the US now.

Happy?


No he wouldn't, because US workers are 2x as productive. It's why we're still #1 in manufacturing even though we have a hell of a lot less people working in that sector.
 
2012-01-29 02:48:54 PM

Darth_Lukecash: That being said: Apples treatment of the Chinese labor is horrible, and I will probabbly not get another iPhone.


what will you get instead to avoid supporting those types of labor practices?
 
2012-01-29 02:49:05 PM

Theaetetus: ... and since you're constantly pushing the "you don't really need it" concept, then under your theory, the logical conclusion is that they shouldn't buy it... In other words, "abstain completely."


umm...no.

conversation with myself on the ipad:

me: 'i want an ipad.'
other me: 'why?'
me: 'because I want a shiny new toy. it will do toy like things and I will enjoy them.'
other me: 'can we afford it?'
me: 'um...mostly.'
other me: 'ok then. proceed.'

conversation with myself on a new flat screen TV:

me: 'I want a new TV!'
other me: 'why?'
me: 'um...i'm not sure.'
other me: 'we can't afford to spend $400+ on something you can't even figure out if its needed or not.'
me: 'I hate you.'
other me: 'hate is cheap. a new TV isn't. I'm vetoing this one. go play with your iPad.'

see how that works? more people should have conversations like those and don't let slick marketing make their choices for 'em.
 
2012-01-29 02:50:20 PM

thomps: Darth_Lukecash: That being said: Apples treatment of the Chinese labor is horrible, and I will probabbly not get another iPhone.

what will you get instead to avoid supporting those types of labor practices?


why do you care?
 
2012-01-29 02:50:29 PM
All tech products are made by slaves in sweatshops. So buy Apple.
 
2012-01-29 02:52:37 PM

Weaver95: see how that works? more people should have conversations like those and don't let slick marketing make their choices for 'em.


I still kind of want a Nook Tablet, since I refused to buy Apple products before this whole dustup, the iPad is too big for my tastes to be handheld, and I kind of want an eReader and tablet. But, I can't find enough uses for it, or anything close, to justify the cost. My laptop does anything I'd use the Nook for, and if the laptop isn't powerful enough, I go to the desktop.
 
2012-01-29 02:52:42 PM

Weaver95: thomps: Darth_Lukecash: That being said: Apples treatment of the Chinese labor is horrible, and I will probabbly not get another iPhone.

what will you get instead to avoid supporting those types of labor practices?

why do you care?


because i'm also interested in avoiding supporting those types of labor practices when reasonably possible to do so. but i don't see the point in using that as a reason not to buy an iphone if buying a competitor supports similar practices.

i'm not trying to be a dick here, but it doesn't make any sense to avoid apple products in favor of other electronics providers if that question isn't answered.
 
2012-01-29 02:55:25 PM

Weaver95: see how that works? more people should have conversations like those and don't let slick marketing make their choices for 'em.


"me: 'because I want a shiny new toy. it will do toy like things and I will enjoy them.'

Mmmhmmm.
 
2012-01-29 02:56:09 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Flint Ironstag: If he employed workers in the US he'd need twice as many (at least) since US workers won't work 12 hour days six days a week.

At $50k a year that would cost $70 billion. A year.

Apples $90 billion cash would be gone in under 18 months and Apple would be losing $40 billion a year and go bust, losing the jobs of the 42,000 people Apple does employ in the US now.

Happy?

No he wouldn't, because US workers are 2x as productive. It's why we're still #1 in manufacturing even though we have a hell of a lot less people working in that sector.


Will you work 12 hour days six days a week?

And work Like this for those 12 hours? Non stop?

Basically what you are arguing is that Steve Jobs didn't have a clue what he was talking about. That you know more about mass production of electrical goods and cost of labor and productivity than he did.

I'm not the biggest fan of Jobs or Apple but I accept the guy knew what he was talking about.
 
2012-01-29 03:09:33 PM

thomps: i'm also interested in avoiding supporting those types of labor practices when reasonably possible to do so. but i don't see the point in using that as a reason not to buy an iphone if buying a competitor supports similar practices.

i'm not trying to be a dick here, but it doesn't make any sense to avoid apple products in favor of other electronics providers if that question isn't answered.


I think you are being remarkably non-dickish, and agree that that is the most important question for anyone advocating voting with your dollars.
 
2012-01-29 03:14:19 PM

thomps: Weaver95: thomps: Darth_Lukecash: That being said: Apples treatment of the Chinese labor is horrible, and I will probabbly not get another iPhone.

what will you get instead to avoid supporting those types of labor practices?

why do you care?

because i'm also interested in avoiding supporting those types of labor practices when reasonably possible to do so. but i don't see the point in using that as a reason not to buy an iphone if buying a competitor supports similar practices.

i'm not trying to be a dick here, but it doesn't make any sense to avoid apple products in favor of other electronics providers if that question isn't answered.


I don't think you CAN avoid purchasing products manufactured by foxconn. if your product is manufactured in china then odds are that they made it, or they made the parts that went into it.
 
2012-01-29 03:29:34 PM
I'm not sure why there's so much fake outrage about Apple.

Is anyone here old enough to remember when it was discovered that Nike shoes were being manufactured in Asia for a few pennies, and then being sold for $100? How about when GM moved its operations the Mexico, and Asia?

Do you like chocolate? Coffee? Congratulations, you're directly support child slavery.

I challenge anyone here to get dressed, eat breakfast or do just about any task without using something made by someone in slavery conditions. It can't be done.

Sadly, I have little confidence that will change the way Americans shop.

Don't even get me started on our domestic prison slavery manufacturing.
 
2012-01-29 03:43:46 PM
I I don't own an Apple product.
 
2012-01-29 03:46:28 PM

Snarfangel: I I don't own an Apple product.


so you're making a conscious decision to force chinese children to starve and then brag about it online. you make me sick.
 
2012-01-29 04:19:37 PM
aliran.com
 
2012-01-29 04:31:45 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com
I don't own an Apple product!!

(Should I feel smug?)
 
2012-01-29 04:32:16 PM
One needs to remember that they sell their products in nearly every country of the world and those countries are unwilling to subsidize our silly labor laws.

I like to think that I am helping the Chinese by buying stuff from made there. I used to like thinking I was helping Americans, but after Walmart forced everybody to move to China, that feeling went away.
 
2012-01-29 04:37:24 PM
But I'm creative.
 
2012-01-29 04:40:23 PM
I understand Subby's point but I think the article went a little far when it says that all Apple owners are secret racists. I mean, they can't all be racists, right?
 
2012-01-29 04:41:06 PM

EnviroDude: I like to think that I am helping the Chinese by buying stuff from made there. .


nah, you're just dicking them over and subsidizing slave labor.

the difference between us is that I know what Apple is doing and I bought my slave manufactured iPad without remorse while you pretend you have no idea what it is you're supporting and live in fear of ever finding out the truth.
 
2012-01-29 04:44:16 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 244x182]
I don't own an Apple product!!

(Should I feel smug?)


I don't own any Apple products. I'm not a fan of Steve Jobs but I have to admit that the guy knew what he was doing. Any random poster on the internet who claims that "Of course Apple could build the iPhone in the US for the same money" is basically saying they know more than Jobs did about Apple manufacturing. That's like me claiming I could play the guitar better than Dave Gilmour or drive a car better than Jenson Button.
 
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