m2313: I find it ironic that you see the protesters as "imposing" on your life while the cops and the system are doing just that by stealing people's homes (ignoring even the standard economic role of risk in lending)

How are people's homes being stolen? I thought that the banks held the liens on those homes and therefore owned them if the people living in the homes were not paying the mortgage. Isn't that how it works?

Or are you saying that the police are going to people who actually OWN their homes and stealing them?! Wow, I didn't know that. Maybe we should tell the police...no wait, they are in on it. Does the FBI know?

IlGreven: struct: Except she hasn't done this in the least. They have the right to exercise their free speech anytime that they want.

Stop lying. Or is your definition of "anytime they want" the same as the definition of "anyone they want" that gay marriage opponents give when they say "Those gays can marry anyone they want right now!"

Nope, but thanks for equating me to a gay marriage opponent. What is it with OWS supporters, is it so hard to disagree with you on one point without being labelled with a host of views you don't support? Maybe this is why the movement is having so much trouble getting support, it can't stay on message.

As to your question, there has not been a single instance where they were denied the right to lawfully protest. No one's blog has been shut down, no newspaper editorialists have been imprisoned. So enough of the Dennis the Peasant routine. The burden of proof is on you to show one lawful protest that was turned down. Had they wanted to protest lawfully in large numbers, like those annoying tea-partiers, by all means do it. Just don't take over our public squares, shiat on them, and hand them back asking us to thank you for fighting for our rights. The OWS doesn't speak for me or for a majority of people.

tenpoundsofcheese: SNIP

You're late the trolling, that'll cut down on your score you know.

MrEricSir: Guess what? I counter-harassed that company until they gave up and will never donate another dime to the ACLU again. Too bad, because I like what they stand for -- except for that part about treating donors like shiat.

That's why I gave to them through the combined federal campaign. Do I want to give the organization my information... no I don't think I do!

m2313: struct: I have real respect for the countless activists who marched, petitioned, and won elections for such things as civil rights, union laws, and women's rights. They really sacrificed and worked for what they believed in, often toiling far away from the spotlight for sometimes little notice or even a bullet to their heads for their trouble. These grandstanders? They just want to make themselves feel self-important and victims at the same time. And they invoke the same messages as those earlier heroes did to boost their own egos. Sickening.

All of whom took similar direct action.
Even the 8 hour day wasn't effective until a year's litany of sabotage, strikes, and occupations after the official law was passed.
For every person that took a dog bite, there was a Black Panther. For every union strike, there was a sabotage.
The changes that do occur within the system only occur because someone decided to act out of it. Think about where the gay rights movement would be without the initial inflammation of Stonewall.

I agree with you mostly, and civil disobedience has its place. My point is there is an effective and non-effective way of doing it. Which of the actions that you mentioned were most effective? Did the Black Panthers sway anyone not already swayed by them? Did sabotage really accomplish anything? No. We remember names like MLK, Rosa Parks, Cesar Chavez, Harvey Milk - not those that get on a stage, shiat on it, and scream look at me to boost their own egos.

m2313: It's one of the things that pushed me out of left-wing activism and toward eventually a more center-right political viewpoint.

Tell me again, why is the right to bear arms so important? Doesn't it have something to do with overthrowing a corrupt government?

What at all does the 2nd amendment have to do with Tatsuma's point or having a center-right political viewpoint? No one mentioned guns at all. Its almost like you were trying to strawman an argument that he might necessarily make just because he has a political view slightly different than yours.

The issue here is whether a small segment of a city's population (here ~0.1%) can summarily decide that they speak for the rest, doing whatever, whenever they want - up to and including infiltrating and stealing private property and taking over city streets and city hall. Their support is dwindling, mostly because of stupid antics like this, but yet they still use the rhetoric that they are defenders of our rights to justify their destructive behavior. The job that we pay the police to do is to uphold order and our rights, both of which are trampled upon when those that think they know better than you try to impose on your life this way.

The police do neither.
They are economically in the 99% but they are members of a top-down political institution whose purpose is to protect and serve the profit motive.
I find it ironic that you see the protesters as "imposing" on your life while the cops and the system are doing just that by stealing people's homes (ignoring even the standard economic role of risk in lending) and using armed gangs to keep people out of public spaces.

saying moronic things like this probably doesn't reflect well on the people you travel with, if you want to know the truth.
the risk was that the loan might not be repaid, not that the lender might not be able to obtain title to the property that the funds were used to buy because you've decided life is unfair.
best just keep your mouth shut.

Contribution Corsair: tenpoundsofcheese: SNIP

You're late the trolling, that'll cut down on your score you know.

You're bad the grammer, but label sayof someone's valid point as trolling doesn't make your argument any stronger.

There are still "occupy" people?

relcec: saying moronic things like this probably doesn't reflect well on the people you travel with, if you want to know the truth.
the risk was that the loan might not be repaid, not that the lender might not be able to obtain title to the property that the funds were used to buy because you've decided life is unfair.
best just keep your mouth shut.


Which explains why banks were bailed out and even given money on interest and other cash they never had to begin with. Meanwhile, the rich are getting tax cuts and catered to, while the poor and middle class are told "austerity", turned out of their homes, and held to pay for a crisis caused by systemic fraud and bullshiat from above.
If there's a debtor prison where both prisoners are supposedly equal, but the rich man is pampered, then released and handed cash, how do you expect the second poor prisoner to react?
It seems everyone's hellbent on class warfare. On the idea that one must pay ones debt, when in 2008 and since then, that whole line was seen to be a charade. You can't expect someone to just go "okay I'll go along with it" when not too long ago before their very eyes, someone else got off completely free.
Somehow it's okay to turn people out of their homes (or on a global scale, like the IMF) drain public resources and even access to food in the name of debt so Chase or whoever doesn't lose too much on a loan. fark people right? It's just the numbers that matter!

topcon: There are still "occupy" people?

Yes - despite all the propaganda, police brutality, and government interference, there are still people out there protesting the wholesale selling of their, and your, future.

Dude, I don't think you understand the context of Oakland. A group of people storming down the street throwing rocks through windows in Oakland is "petty vandalism", and strings of murders don't even make the paper. Trust me, if it got to the point where it's called "storming city hall" by the media, in any other location in the world the army would have been called in weeks ago.

Contribution Corsair: tenpoundsofcheese: SNIP

You're late the trolling, that'll cut down on your score you know.

same pay, so it doesn't matter.

m2313: relcec: saying moronic things like this probably doesn't reflect well on the people you travel with, if you want to know the truth.
the risk was that the loan might not be repaid, not that the lender might not be able to obtain title to the property that the funds were used to buy because you've decided life is unfair.
best just keep your mouth shut.


Which explains why banks were bailed out and even given money on interest and other cash they never had to begin with. Meanwhile, the rich are getting tax cuts and catered to, while the poor and middle class are told "austerity", turned out of their homes, and held to pay for a crisis caused by systemic fraud and bullshiat from above.
If there's a debtor prison where both prisoners are supposedly equal, but the rich man is pampered, then released and handed cash, how do you expect the second poor prisoner to react?
It seems everyone's hellbent on class warfare. On the idea that one must pay ones debt, when in 2008 and since then, that whole line was seen to be a charade. You can't expect someone to just go "okay I'll go along with it" when not too long ago before their very eyes, someone else got off completely free.
Somehow it's okay to turn people out of their homes (or on a global scale, like the IMF) drain public resources and even access to food in the name of debt so Chase or whoever doesn't lose too much on a loan. fark people right? It's just the numbers that matter!

you apparently have plenty arguments you could emphasize that aren't ridiculous on their face. go with those.

FormlessOne: topcon: There are still "occupy" people?

Yes - despite all the propaganda, police brutality, and government interference, there are still people out there protesting the wholesale selling of their, and your, future.

who is the future being sold to? and who is selling it?

besides the massive debt that 0bama keeps piling up.

tenpoundsofcheese: 0bama

com on, dude, that's getting pretty stale

ultraholland: tenpoundsofcheese: 0bama

com on, dude, that's getting pretty stale

yeah, but Boner, I mean Boehner is also stale.

computer autocorrects....0bama...0bama...0bama...darn, autocorrect.

Link (new window)

Quan said that at one point, many forced their way into City Hall, where they burned flags, broke an electrical box and damaged several art structures, including a recycled art exhibit created by children.

"City Hall is closed for the weekend. There is no excuse for behavior we've witnessed this evening," City Council President Larry Reid said during a news briefing Saturday. "It's just unacceptable and makes absolutely no sense for the type of behavior we've seen on the streets in the city of Oakland today."

Oakland Councilman Ignacio De La Fuente, echoed Reid's sentiments and said that what was going on amounts to "domestic terrorism."

My reaction... Does Occupy really think that destroying City Hall is acceptable? Does Occupy really think that they will gain support from mainstream people by exhibiting behavior like this?

Most people at this point simply want these Occupy people locked up. Occupy is now America's most useless and meaningless protest movement.

tenpoundsofcheese: who is the future being sold to? and who is selling it?

who is the future being sold to?

and who is selling it?

Tatsuma: cmb53208: It's called the 1st Amendment, Try reading it you useless sack of shiat.

Free Assembly does not give you the right to throw bottles, metal pipes and burning stuff at cops

Try to think, you potty-mouthed bland username.

You're right, it's OK to make mass arrests becuase 5 out of 100 people threw bottles at cops. And golly, nothing says 'credibility' like the Oakland PD.

Since you don't liek the 1st Amendment, perhaps you should head back to Israel and get a job beating Palestinians who get too lippy for your tastes. Or you could hit our taxpayers up for more cash because anti-semitism that's why.

gblive: Link (new window)

Quan said that at one point, many forced their way into City Hall, where they burned flags, broke an electrical box and damaged several art structures, including a recycled art exhibit created by children.

"City Hall is closed for the weekend. There is no excuse for behavior we've witnessed this evening," City Council President Larry Reid said during a news briefing Saturday. "It's just unacceptable and makes absolutely no sense for the type of behavior we've seen on the streets in the city of Oakland today."

Oakland Councilman Ignacio De La Fuente, echoed Reid's sentiments and said that what was going on amounts to "domestic terrorism."

My reaction... Does Occupy really think that destroying City Hall is acceptable?

Obviously yes, otherwise they wouldn't do it.

oes Occupy really think that they will gain support from mainstream people by exhibiting behavior like this?

Obviously yes, since they are so proud of this. They are standing up to the mean old government and meany police.

Most people at this point simply want these Occupy people locked up.
I bet most people in jails wouldn't want these dirty, self-righteous people any where near them. They have standards you know.

Occupy is now America's most useless and meaningless protest movement.
But they want to cancel all debt, so if it looks like that will get that done, I need to take out a lot more loans.

DrD'isInfotainment: tenpoundsofcheese: who is the future being sold to? and who is selling it?

who is the future being sold to?[gashead.net image 460x276]

and who is selling it?
[images.politico.com image 605x328]

Your first picture mentions debt. And you don't mention Obama. Full farking retard

struct: Contribution Corsair: tenpoundsofcheese: SNIP

You're late the trolling, that'll cut down on your score you know.

You're bad the grammer, but label sayof someone's valid point as trolling doesn't make your argument any stronger.

I got lazy, happens when you're on the can and posting. But tenpounds is petty decently known as a troll =p just welcoming him to the party in a way. Occupy threads are fun to read for that reason if you don't intend to be serious face since about half the posts end up going into Poe's Law territory.

DrD'isInfotainment: tenpoundsofcheese: who is the future being sold to? and who is selling it?

who is the future being sold to?[gashead.net image 460x276]

and who is selling it?
[images.politico.com image 605x328]


wow, two people who are not in office are selling our future? how do they do that?

Does 0bama not know this and can't he stop these two private citizens from taking on all that debt from the Chinese?!?!

cmb53208: Since you don't liek the 1st Amendment, perhaps you should head back to Israel and get a job beating Palestinians who get too lippy for your tastes. Or you could hit our taxpayers up for more cash because anti-semitism that's why.

Breaking the law
First amendment

pick one, idiot.

cmb53208: Tatsuma: cmb53208: It's called the 1st Amendment, Try reading it you useless sack of shiat.

Free Assembly does not give you the right to throw bottles, metal pipes and burning stuff at cops

Try to think, you potty-mouthed bland username.

You're right, it's OK to make mass arrests becuase 5 out of 100 people threw bottles at cops. And golly, nothing says 'credibility' like the Oakland PD.

Since you don't liek the 1st Amendment, perhaps you should head back to Israel and get a job beating Palestinians who get too lippy for your tastes. Or you could hit our taxpayers up for more cash because anti-semitism that's why.

This post is confusing as hell. Again, people are projecting a ton of different views because someone disagrees on one particular point of view? Was Oakland about Palestine? Nope. So where in your bizarre little, small minded rant does it make any sense equating the two? Is it that hard to hold views more complex than you disagree with me so everything you say must be wrong?

And yes, it is alright to arrest a hundred of rioters if they are out, you know, rioting. They broke into a private building, tried to break into City Hall, then threw rocks at police. It was not just 5 of them.

gblive: My reaction... Does Occupy really think that destroying City Hall is acceptable? Does Occupy really think that they will gain support from mainstream people by exhibiting behavior like this?

The cops went in first (and I don't mean now, I mean going back to the Scott Olsen incident and if we're not talking Occupy, there's an Oakland cop who's already out of jail on what was essentially first degree murder [shooting a person in the head execution style while they were on the ground and pretty much cuffed].)
Normally, I wouldn't expect armed thugs beating and tear gassing peaceful people to be handled with the same peaceful response in the future. Seems like that is playing out.
See Syria.
Much more intense situation but the principle is the same. Once the protesters realized they were gonna get hit no matter what they did they started hitting up army defectors and fighting back.
Or the "peaceful" revolution in Egypt where people burned down police stations.
The police invited the protesters to play ball, and now they're taking them up on the offer. At least the protesters have the restraint not to kill officers execution style on train platforms so far.

Contribution Corsair: struct: Contribution Corsair: tenpoundsofcheese: SNIP

You're late the trolling, that'll cut down on your score you know.

You're bad the grammer, but label sayof someone's valid point as trolling doesn't make your argument any stronger.

I got lazy, happens when you're on the can and posting. But tenpounds is petty decently known as a troll =p just welcoming him to the party in a way. Occupy threads are fun to read for that reason if you don't intend to be serious face since about half the posts end up going into Poe's Law territory.

Yeah, I actually regretted that right after I posted it. At the risk of Godwining myself, I hate being the grammer Nazi (because I fark up grammer (ar?) all the time).

struct: Contribution Corsair: struct: Contribution Corsair: tenpoundsofcheese:
Yeah, I actually regretted that right after I posted it. At the risk of Godwining myself, I hate being the grammer Nazi (because I fark up grammer (ar?) all the time).

You're gonna hate me any time I'm at work then, R, T, and W randomly will not work right unless I literally SLAM the key down hard, while all the other keys have a feather touch.

IlGreven: I noticed you have a lot of concern, but not a lot of actual advice.

The advice I have is pretty boring. Make informed choices about voting, hold elected officials accountable, have rational discussions with people with whom you disagree so you can change their minds, work hard and get a seat at the policy table. Basically, it boils down to the belief that one does more good if one rows the boat instead of rocking it.

Doesn't feel as good as striking a defiant pose or throwing a chunk of cinderblock through a window or shouting "Pig" at some overweight 40 year old with a moustache and an associate's degree, but it's more effective in the end.

BravadoGT: [cdn.newsday.com image 600x400]

"God bless them for their spontaneity. It's young, it's spontaneous, it's focused and it's going to be effective."

--Nancy Pelosi

Protests: Always fun until the Free Mumia folks show up.

IlGreven: Sir Roderick Glossop: /I wish they'd spend more time getting people to focus on getting rid of corporate welfare and nationalized risk/ privatized profit and less time with this BS

I noticed you have a lot of concern, but not a lot of actual advice.

I think a lot of people focus on the silly aspects of Occupy and have that same response so here are a few solid actions I support.

Problem: Financial incentives are skewed and corrupt because of risky, fast-money bets that the government had to pay for
Solution: Regulate the derivatives market, place an upper limit on leverage, and expand the SEC's role to prosecute securities fraud

Problem: Debt has been increasing every year for the past decade, while tax rates have been cut every year for the past decade
Solution: Allow the Bush Tax Cuts to expire as the bill was written, and implement a temporary tax to pay for the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, like the US has always done

Problem: Socioeconomic inequality stems from unequal influence that corporate interests have on legislators
Solution: Pass a Constitutional amendment that explicitly caps corporate financing of election acitivities, formally reversing the Citizen's United ruling. Pass the STOCK act.

RoyFokker'sGhost: muck4doo:

Carrying out the white man's burden.

Yup. If you can find some, check out the interviews from the Oscar Grant protest/riot last year. All the real residents of Oakland are all 'It's a stupid verdict and it's bullshait, but what can you expect?'. Disappointed and bitter, but not screaming 'Black Rage!'. The only ones talking about the 'criminal injustice system' and 'fascism', and 'the police need to be disbanded' are the white kids down from Berkeley in the Bob Marley dred-catchers and the Che t-shirts.

Oh, I know. They can all go home now and pat themselves on the back for helping the little people who can't help themselves.

Frank N Stein:
Breaking the law
First amendment

pick one, idiot.

Can you point to one thing that provoked the response from the Oakland PD? Can you give me one good reason I should trust those goons?

Tatsuma: dudemanbro: Yeah stupid hippies, let's round them up, send them to camps and make 'em work for once in their lives! Work makes you free! Or you know what? Fark 'em, we'll just gas 'em to death! Then we'll roll over the rest of the losers in our awesome souped-up rv's and make everyone do what we want!

I was being sarcastic.

Hooded hooligans who are throwing bottles, burning flares and metal pipes are police officers are not in any way protesting, or upholding their constitutional rights, and deserve every bean bag to the genitals they will get.

Am I the only one who really can't tell when tatsuma is joking and when he's being serious until after he is called out for crossing the line and claims it was a joke?

struct:
This post is confusing as hell. Again, people are projecting a ton of different views because someone disagrees on one particular point of view? Was Oakland about Palestine? Nope. So where in your bizarre little, small minded rant does it make any sense equating the two? Is it that hard to hold views more complex than you disagree with me so everything you say must be wrong?

And yes, it is alright to arrest a hundred of rioters if they are out, you know, rioting. They broke into a private building, tried to break into City Hall, then threw rocks at police. It was not just 5 of them.

There's nothing confusing about my post: I responding to a goof that doesn't like the 1st Amendment and feels that Israel can do no wrong. Secondly, the break-in to City Hall I think was understandable: Quan has thus far taken no responsibility for her actions against the last Occupy protests, and the Oakland PD is such a piece of shiat that the feds are about to take it over. When it comes to credibility, the Oakland PD has ZERO.

The only thing that the Occupy people did wrong here is that they didn't get a hold of Quan and tar and feather her

cmb53208: tar and feather her

"The only thing they did wrong was not murder her"

Wow.

ArtosRC: Tatsuma: yeah my discussion with you is gonna end up right here, right now.

Afraid of being outed, I see.

Welcome to Tats's ignore list.

Smackledorfer: Am I the only one who really can't tell when tatsuma is joking and when he's being serious until after he is called out for crossing the line and claims it was a joke?

I just figured he was happy the US was moving towards a more Israeli means of dealing with dissent so he'd have more justification for how his government treats their own unwanted ethnic group.

So, what is occupy Oakland?

CorporatePerson: Anyone know who these guys are/why they're doing this?

The answer to both your questions: They are douche bags

Frank N Stein: cmb53208: tar and feather her

"The only thing they did wrong was not murder her"

Wow.

How is tarring and feathering murder dumbass?

Hey look. It's the full list of derping points from the other Occupy thread.

A Dark Evil Omen: cmb53208: Frank N Stein: cmb53208: tar and feather her

"The only thing they did wrong was not murder her"

Wow.

How is tarring and feathering murder dumbass?

The modern perception is that tar and feathering was horrific because what is referred to as "tar" today is bitumen, which is only liquid at skin-searing temperatures. When tar and feathering was a thing, however, they used pine tar.

Fair enough, Jean Quan should get the pine tar, that's what I meant.