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(Daily Kos)   As Occupy Oakland protesters storm city hall the Oakland cops roll out the tank..wtf a tank ? really?   (dailykos.com) divider line 394
    More: Asinine, mass arrest, Alameda, PPL, city halls, storms, YMCA, Oakland  
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5592 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Jan 2012 at 2:51 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-29 04:20:05 PM
i552.photobucket.com

"There was a time when I liked a good riot. Put on some heavy old street clothes that could stand a bit of sidewalk-scraping, infect myself with something good and contageous, then go out and stamp on some cops. It was great, being nine years old."
 
2012-01-29 04:20:10 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-01-29 04:21:39 PM

dudemanbro: I disagree with the beanbag to the genitals part.


I don't either, for the record. Figures of speech, hyperbole, and all that.

Beanbags to the torso in a manner that hurts but is not lethal and will not endanger internal organs? That I unironically fully agree with those particular protesters.

dudemanbro: I also disagree with shooting women in the back with beanbag projectiles from point-blank range, or shooting teargas canisters at people's heads.


I would disagree with shooting tear gas canisters at people's head full-stop, but the shooting in the back could be justified under certain circumstances.

dudemanbro: I can tell you that threatening a population with more violence if they don't back down is not a way to end the protests.


Neither is saying 'Please stop or we'll ask again'
 
2012-01-29 04:21:40 PM
sp1.fotolog.com
 
2012-01-29 04:21:40 PM
When the Tea Party had a rally in a park in my town with thousands of people, they left the park cleaner than they found it. No arrests or trouble whatsoever. The Mayor and Police invited them to come back anytime.

Liberals can't do this. That's what happens when you are a spoiled brat looking for handouts. Or, just trying to steal what you want. Occupy another building now.
 
2012-01-29 04:24:27 PM

Tatsuma: By all means, go ahead. May those bean bags connect well, and often.


Of course Tatsuma would be for goosestepping policies and crushing dissent. What other rhetoric could be expected from a person whose people is attempting genocide?
 
2012-01-29 04:24:40 PM

fusillade762: [i552.photobucket.com image 426x640]

"There was a time when I liked a good riot. Put on some heavy old street clothes that could stand a bit of sidewalk-scraping, infect myself with something good and contageous, then go out and stamp on some cops. It was great, being nine years old."


I wish they were still writing that. It's easily one of my favorite comics of all time.
 
2012-01-29 04:24:55 PM

barneyfifesbullet: When the Tea Party had a rally in a park in my town with thousands of people, they left the park cleaner than they found it. No arrests or trouble whatsoever. The Mayor and Police invited them to come back anytime.

Liberals can't do this.


This is something that really saddens me. I was having a discussion with my friend (we're basically the mirror image in terms of politics, on the center-left and center-right divide) and he agreed with me that it's incredibly sad.

It's one of the things that pushed me out of left-wing activism and toward eventually a more center-right political viewpoint.
 
2012-01-29 04:25:50 PM

Tatsuma: barneyfifesbullet: When the Tea Party had a rally in a park in my town with thousands of people, they left the park cleaner than they found it. No arrests or trouble whatsoever. The Mayor and Police invited them to come back anytime.

Liberals can't do this.

This is something that really saddens me. I was having a discussion with my friend (we're basically the mirror image in terms of politics, on the center-left and center-right divide) and he agreed with me that it's incredibly sad.

It's one of the things that pushed me out of left-wing activism and toward eventually a more center-right political viewpoint.


Utter bullshiat rightist talking points were enough to sway you right? Well, that explains a lot.
 
2012-01-29 04:27:39 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Utter bullshiat rightist talking points were enough to sway you right? Well, that explains a lot.


No, what I saw with my own eyes during literally years of activism and volunteering in left-wing orgs and participating in many many protests.
 
2012-01-29 04:28:46 PM

Tatsuma: barneyfifesbullet: When the Tea Party had a rally in a park in my town with thousands of people, they left the park cleaner than they found it. No arrests or trouble whatsoever. The Mayor and Police invited them to come back anytime.

Liberals can't do this.

This is something that really saddens me. I was having a discussion with my friend (we're basically the mirror image in terms of politics, on the center-left and center-right divide) and he agreed with me that it's incredibly sad.

It's one of the things that pushed me out of left-wing activism and toward eventually a more center-right political viewpoint.


Tell me again, why is the right to bear arms so important? Doesn't it have something to do with overthrowing a corrupt government?
 
2012-01-29 04:30:04 PM

Serious Black: Tell me again, why is the right to bear arms so important? Doesn't it have something to do with overthrowing a corrupt government?


It's important because it's a right granted by the Constitution. I'm not a gun fanatic, though I certainly support that right.

As far as overthrowing a corrupt government, do you really think this is what is happening here?
 
2012-01-29 04:32:22 PM

Tatsuma: Guntram Shatterhand: we're beating up hippies with a militarized vehicle that has no purpose being on American streets.

nothing wrong with beating up hippies, and what do you have against souped-up rvs?


It's called the 1st Amendment, Try reading it you useless sack of shiat.
 
2012-01-29 04:33:07 PM
I love how when the Iranians were doing this kind of stuff (and a lot worse) Tatsuma was cheering them on. But let them protest the actions of Wall st thieves who have corrupted the govt and all of a sudden he's pro tyranny.
 
2012-01-29 04:33:16 PM

barneyfifesbullet: When the Tea Party had a rally in a park in my town with thousands of people, they left the park cleaner than they found it. No arrests or trouble whatsoever. The Mayor and Police invited them to come back anytime.

Liberals can't do this. That's what happens when you are a spoiled brat looking for handouts. Or, just trying to steal what you want. Occupy another building now.


When Fox New's Tea Party held a rally in Oklahoma, their speaker raped a child.
 
2012-01-29 04:35:06 PM

cmb53208: It's called the 1st Amendment, Try reading it you useless sack of shiat.


Free Assembly does not give you the right to throw bottles, metal pipes and burning stuff at cops

Try to think, you potty-mouthed bland username.
 
2012-01-29 04:35:59 PM
"Hit it...again."
 
2012-01-29 04:37:37 PM

Tatsuma: Free Assembly does not give you the right to throw bottles, metal pipes and burning stuff at cops


If the cops had kept their distance nothing would've happened. Except the mayor of Oakland she has no interest in the first amendment, no matter the consequences.
 
2012-01-29 04:39:01 PM

Tatsuma: Serious Black: Tell me again, why is the right to bear arms so important? Doesn't it have something to do with overthrowing a corrupt government?

It's important because it's a right granted by the Constitution.


If the Constitution granted people the right to molest little children, would that be important too?

Tatsuma: As far as overthrowing a corrupt government, do you really think this is what is happening here?


I don't necessarily think the government is so corrupt that it needs to be overthrown, but remember, freedom means letting asshats like Fred Phelps and his clan express themselves how they see fit, not in preventing them from doing it.
 
2012-01-29 04:40:10 PM

Tatsuma: A Dark Evil Omen: Utter bullshiat rightist talking points were enough to sway you right? Well, that explains a lot.

No, what I saw with my own eyes during literally years of activism and volunteering in left-wing orgs and participating in many many protests.


Yeah, you know, this is really true. Tea Party rallys are so much cleaner than OWS protests. There's no disturbing the carefully constructed system that's in place. No jostling, no chaos, oh there's certainly shouting but it's controlled. The time and place of the shouting is specified by the people that sponsor and organize the rallies. They're told where it's acceptable to shout, and they pay plenty of money to make sure they can shout there. The Tea Party can certainly never be accused of rocking the boat and making people sea sick with those nasty unpredictable movements.

OWS doesn't want the system to remain in place, they want it changed. They aren't being directed by a big news network or a bunch of monied interests, they're actual people that need to organize themselves. Their greatest aspiration is not to keep everything in the state in which they found it, to calmly listen and obey to all posted rules and procedures regardless of the intent behind those rules. They are not gathering to complain that the system they're comfortable with is changing, they're gathering to change that systems. Change is messy. Getting rounded up by a coordinated police raid and not being allowed to take your stuff with you does result in a lot of litter. Not paying for the privilege of speaking, and instead speaking because it's a right means that you aren't as organized, don't have access to all of the trash cans and port-a-potties that get placed and maintained for events like Tea Party rallies that are put on via municipal regulations.

If the most important thing in a political movement for you is whether they can keep litter off the street, you probably shouldn't focus on either rallies or protests, picnics are so much nicer.
 
2012-01-29 04:41:55 PM

Tatsuma: Serious Black: Tell me again, why is the right to bear arms so important? Doesn't it have something to do with overthrowing a corrupt government?

It's important because it's a right granted by the Constitution. I'm not a gun fanatic, though I certainly support that right.

As far as overthrowing a corrupt government, do you really think this is what is happening here?


What are you, joking? It's important because it's granted by the Constitution? That isnt a reason. That's like saying charity and kindness to others is important because it was in the bible.

You're missing the point.
 
2012-01-29 04:42:36 PM

Serious Black: Tatsuma: barneyfifesbullet: When the Tea Party had a rally in a park in my town with thousands of people, they left the park cleaner than they found it. No arrests or trouble whatsoever. The Mayor and Police invited them to come back anytime.

Liberals can't do this.

This is something that really saddens me. I was having a discussion with my friend (we're basically the mirror image in terms of politics, on the center-left and center-right divide) and he agreed with me that it's incredibly sad.

It's one of the things that pushed me out of left-wing activism and toward eventually a more center-right political viewpoint.

Tell me again, why is the right to bear arms so important? Doesn't it have something to do with overthrowing a corrupt government?


What at all does the 2nd amendment have to do with Tatsuma's point or having a center-right political viewpoint? No one mentioned guns at all. Its almost like you were trying to strawman an argument that he might necessarily make just because he has a political view slightly different than yours.

The issue here is whether a small segment of a city's population (here ~0.1%) can summarily decide that they speak for the rest, doing whatever, whenever they want - up to and including infiltrating and stealing private property and taking over city streets and city hall. Their support is dwindling, mostly because of stupid antics like this, but yet they still use the rhetoric that they are defenders of our rights to justify their destructive behavior. The job that we pay the police to do is to uphold order and our rights, both of which are trampled upon when those that think they know better than you try to impose on your life this way.
 
2012-01-29 04:42:40 PM

Serious Black: If the Constitution granted people the right to molest little children, would that be important too?


yeah my discussion with you is gonna end up right here, right now.
 
2012-01-29 04:42:44 PM

CorporatePerson: Anyone know who these guys are/why they're doing this?


They are Penn State alums showing their support of JoePa.
 
2012-01-29 04:43:36 PM

Tatsuma: cmb53208: It's called the 1st Amendment, Try reading it you useless sack of shiat.

Free Assembly does not give you the right to throw bottles, metal pipes and burning stuff at cops

Try to think, you potty-mouthed bland username.


From every account I've seen on video and twittered the cops started the violence first. with gas,pepper spray and bean bags.
 
2012-01-29 04:43:37 PM

Tatsuma: Neither is saying 'Please stop or we'll ask again'


If they need to arrest people for breaking laws that's one thing, but heavy-handed cops only encourage violence among the more fringe elements of the protests.
 
2012-01-29 04:43:56 PM

Sir Roderick Glossop: /I wish they'd spend more time getting people to focus on getting rid of corporate welfare and nationalized risk/ privatized profit and less time with this BS


I noticed you have a lot of concern, but not a lot of actual advice.
 
2012-01-29 04:44:29 PM

struct: The job that we pay the police to do is to uphold order and our rights, b


What about the government when it refuses to respect someone's right to free speech, like the mayor of Oakland has done?
 
2012-01-29 04:45:16 PM

IlGreven: Sir Roderick Glossop: /I wish they'd spend more time getting people to focus on getting rid of corporate welfare and nationalized risk/ privatized profit and less time with this BS

I noticed you have a lot of concern, but not a lot of actual advice.


His "actual advice" is the same as everyone else talking like he does: Shut up, go away, shop as usual and avoid panic buying. Somehow, voting will fix everything.
 
2012-01-29 04:46:08 PM

struct: What at all does the 2nd amendment have to do with Tatsuma's point or having a center-right political viewpoint? No one mentioned guns at all. Its almost like you were trying to strawman an argument that he might necessarily make just because he has a political view slightly different than yours.


Yeah that's how it felt to me (oh he said center-right obviously he's a rush limbaugh fan who loves guns and killing brown people!!) but I decided to humor him either way

Then he came back talking about molesting children so I realized my first instincts were right

threadjackistan: what are you, joking? It's important because it's granted by the Constitution?


He's asking why the RIGHT is so important. It's important because that's a right granted by the constitution.
 
2012-01-29 04:46:48 PM

Tatsuma: granted by the constitution.


*headdesk*
 
2012-01-29 04:47:10 PM

Tatsuma: threadjackistan: what are you, joking? It's important because it's granted by the Constitution?

He's asking why the RIGHT is so important. It's important because that's a right granted by the constitution.


No, it's protected by the Constitution because it's important.
 
2012-01-29 04:48:28 PM

Tatsuma: yeah my discussion with you is gonna end up right here, right now.


Afraid of being outed, I see.
 
2012-01-29 04:48:36 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: No, it's protected by the Constitution because it's important.


Semantics, you know what I was talking about.

It's friggin almost midnight and four cups of vodka in.
 
2012-01-29 04:49:08 PM
What an Oakland tank may look like

i.imgur.com
 
2012-01-29 04:49:54 PM

Tatsuma: A Dark Evil Omen: No, it's protected by the Constitution because it's important.

Semantics, you know what I was talking about.

It's friggin almost midnight and four cups of vodka in.


This may be why everyone's saying you're talking like an idiot: Because you're drunk, and you're talking like an idiot. Go to bed.
 
2012-01-29 04:53:06 PM

Tatsuma:

threadjackistan: what are you, joking? It's important because it's granted by the Constitution?

He's asking why the RIGHT is so important. It's important because that's a right granted by the constitution.


I disagree, I think that it is an important right because it allows a populace to enter into armed conflict against people they feel are their aggressors. What a lot of people don't realize is that just because these protestors aren't making the news doesn't mean they are losing support.

If we dont get some sort of meaningful action soon, this thing could get really ugly, really fast.
 
2012-01-29 04:56:21 PM

WhyteRaven74: struct: The job that we pay the police to do is to uphold order and our rights, b

What about the government when it refuses to respect someone's right to free speech, like the mayor of Oakland has done?


Except she hasn't done this in the least. They have the right to exercise their free speech anytime that they want. What they don't have a right to do is to take-over public places that I might use, create dangerous smash-and-grab riots where I walk to work, or take-over government (or private) buildings that I pay my tax dollars to (yes, I live in Oakland). This is simply bullying behavior, trying to impose there will on everyone else, goading the police into making a mistake so that they can then make a youtube video showing how just and righteous their cause is. It's all bullshiat.

I have real respect for the countless activists who marched, petitioned, and won elections for such things as civil rights, union laws, and women's rights. They really sacrificed and worked for what they believed in, often toiling far away from the spotlight for sometimes little notice or even a bullet to their heads for their trouble. These grandstanders? They just want to make themselves feel self-important and victims at the same time. And they invoke the same messages as those earlier heroes did to boost their own egos. Sickening.
 
2012-01-29 04:58:19 PM

WhyteRaven74: Tatsuma: granted by the constitution.

*headdesk*


heh yep
 
2012-01-29 04:59:17 PM

struct: Except she hasn't done this in the least.


When she called out the police in riot gear a couple months ago she did it. When the chief of police quit shortly after he said that was not his idea and made it very clear it was not something he supported or thought was a good idea. There was no reason for her to do it. And all the problems started only after the police showed up in riot gear and started forcing people to disperse. Which there was no need to do.
 
2012-01-29 04:59:47 PM

struct: I have real respect for the countless activists who marched, petitioned, and won elections for such things as civil rights, union laws, and women's rights. They really sacrificed and worked for what they believed in, often toiling far away from the spotlight for sometimes little notice or even a bullet to their heads for their trouble. These grandstanders? They just want to make themselves feel self-important and victims at the same time. And they invoke the same messages as those earlier heroes did to boost their own egos. Sickening.


And people said the same exact damned things about those other protesters.
 
2012-01-29 05:01:33 PM

Knight of the Woeful Countenance:

For the last couple of months, Senator Rumson has suggested that being President of this country was, to a certain extent, about character. And although I've not been willing to engage in his attacks on me, I have been here three years and three days, and I can tell you without hesitation: Being President of this country is entirely about character...


Why the hell are you advocating the word of someone who wants to take our guns away? Don't you know someone like that ain't even human?

Now, back to rooting for cops to beat a bunch of people who believe things I don't half to death!
 
2012-01-29 05:02:37 PM

WhyteRaven74: struct: The job that we pay the police to do is to uphold order and our rights, b

What about the government when it refuses to respect someone's right to free speech, like the mayor of Oakland has done?


since when is breaking into buildings just an expression of free speech that needs to be respected?

Remember, what Gandhi said:

"First they trespassed on the land, and I said nothing since I had no land.
Then they broke into the buildings, and I said nothing since I had no buildings...

Then there was no one left who spoke for me".
 
2012-01-29 05:04:18 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: since when is breaking into buildings just an expression of free speech that needs to be respected?


Remember a couple months ago when the protesters just wanted to hang out in the park and the mayor sent out police in riot gear? Or we could go with NYC refusing to grant permits for public toilets, various other cities refusing to grant permits for the protests.
 
2012-01-29 05:04:36 PM

struct: Except she hasn't done this in the least. They have the right to exercise their free speech anytime that they want.


Stop lying. Or is your definition of "anytime they want" the same as the definition of "anyone they want" that gay marriage opponents give when they say "Those gays can marry anyone they want right now!"
 
2012-01-29 05:04:52 PM

Hobodeluxe: cdn.newsday.com

well they could be some of these guys

Or these guys

Or these guys


Hey. It's a 'Gold Fringed Flag'. Maybe its a group of Tea Partiers or Paul fans (new window)protesting the use of 'Admiralty Law' upon 'Sovereign Citizens'
 
2012-01-29 05:08:23 PM

struct: The issue here is whether a small segment of a city's population (here ~0.1%) can summarily decide that they speak for the rest, doing whatever, whenever they want - up to and including infiltrating and stealing private property and taking over city streets and city hall.


As long as there's someone freezing out in the cold and noone is using that building the police dispersal is and existence of the unoccupied building is nothing but theft defended by an armed gang of state-sponsored terrorists.
It's not theft to take back a raw deal.

struct: Serious Black: Tatsuma: barneyfifesbullet: When the Tea Party had a rally in a park in my town with thousands of people, they left the park cleaner than they found it. No arrests or trouble whatsoever. The Mayor and Police invited them to come back anytime.

Liberals can't do this.

This is something that really saddens me. I was having a discussion with my friend (we're basically the mirror image in terms of politics, on the center-left and center-right divide) and he agreed with me that it's incredibly sad.

It's one of the things that pushed me out of left-wing activism and toward eventually a more center-right political viewpoint.

Tell me again, why is the right to bear arms so important? Doesn't it have something to do with overthrowing a corrupt government?

What at all does the 2nd amendment have to do with Tatsuma's point or having a center-right political viewpoint? No one mentioned guns at all. Its almost like you were trying to strawman an argument that he might necessarily make just because he has a political view slightly different than yours.

The issue here is whether a small segment of a city's population (here ~0.1%) can summarily decide that they speak for the rest, doing whatever, whenever they want - up to and including infiltrating and stealing private property and taking over city streets and city hall. Their support is dwindling, mostly because of stupid antics like this, but yet they still use the rhetoric that they are defenders of our rights to justify their destructive behavior. The job that we pay the police to do is to uphold order and our rights, both of which are trampled upon when those that think they know better than you try to impose on your life this way.


The police do neither.
They are economically in the 99% but they are members of a top-down political institution whose purpose is to protect and serve the profit motive.
I find it ironic that you see the protesters as "imposing" on your life while the cops and the system are doing just that by stealing people's homes (ignoring even the standard economic role of risk in lending) and using armed gangs to keep people out of public spaces.
Your life has already been imposed and colonized by the market and the state. Again, it's not imposition to take back a raw deal.
 
2012-01-29 05:12:21 PM

WhyteRaven74: tenpoundsofcheese: since when is breaking into buildings just an expression of free speech that needs to be respected?

Remember a couple months ago when the protesters just wanted to hang out in the park and the mayor sent out police in riot gear? Or we could go with NYC refusing to grant permits for public toilets, various other cities refusing to grant permits for the protests.


No, I don't remember that.
What I remember is that people wanted to set up camps ("occupy"), complete with kitchens, tents, bathrooms to take over part of the city. They made it clear that they were setting up long term camps.

Don't be dishonest and equate that with a protest event that needed permits and bathrooms for a weekend.

Oh so now the 0WS are just "hanging out in a park"? They could hang out all they want in the park if they followed the park rules that every other person is supposed to follow when just hanging out in the park.
 
2012-01-29 05:13:36 PM
Nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
 
2012-01-29 05:13:49 PM

struct: I have real respect for the countless activists who marched, petitioned, and won elections for such things as civil rights, union laws, and women's rights. They really sacrificed and worked for what they believed in, often toiling far away from the spotlight for sometimes little notice or even a bullet to their heads for their trouble. These grandstanders? They just want to make themselves feel self-important and victims at the same time. And they invoke the same messages as those earlier heroes did to boost their own egos. Sickening.


All of whom took similar direct action.
Even the 8 hour day wasn't effective until a year's litany of sabotage, strikes, and occupations after the official law was passed.
For every person that took a dog bite, there was a Black Panther. For every union strike, there was a sabotage.
The changes that do occur within the system only occur because someone decided to act out of it. Think about where the gay rights movement would be without the initial inflammation of Stonewall.
 
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