Mugato: They brought the cops in on this? Hate crime? Really?

Incitement to riot? Maybe. Hate crime? No poo...no police.

Nice to see how "the beautiful game" can bring out the worst in the fans.

skinink: Nice to see how "the beautiful game" can bring out the worst in the fans.



The image was of young Mikey Wilson, then five-years-old, taken by Reuters photographer Jasper Juinen. It was taken just before the 2002 UEFA final between Feyenoord and Borussia of Dortmund Germany. Before the match, there was a moment of silence for controversial Dutch Politician Pim Fortuyn. Fortuyn, an outspoken critic of Islam, had been assassinated two days prior. German fans objected to the moment silence. Many Dutch fans, including young Mikey, reacted by flipping the bird. The photo encapsulated the stereotypical image the wild, die-hard, over-the-top fanaticism of European Football hooligans.

From "Know Your Meme"

This is a violation of his First Amendment rights!!!

If that's illegal, Britain is one farked up place.

Its a racist gesture (black people are monkeys...get it? get it?) over here. Perpetrated by chavscum the country over.

Brits (haha, now who's generalizing?) think that pointing out the obvious (eg - someone is black) automatically means that it is a BAD thing said person is black. They are so oversensitized to differences that they protect your own fears by refusing other people the ability to get over differences. Have you lived in England? Black people are occaisonal and segregated. Black is not hate language in English, and Negro is not hate language in Spanish. There is another similar word that is, but I understand that was not the word that was used.


Sticks and stones can break my bones but words shouldn't be that hurtful when you make £2.5 million

skinink: Nice to see how "the beautiful game" can bring out the worst in the fans.

Not just the fans. During a match between these 2 teams in October, one player racially abused another player (new window)resulting in an 8 match suspension. I'm guessing that's why there was extra scrutiny for racial insensitivity for this match.

Agarista: Brits (haha, now who's generalizing?) think that pointing out the obvious (eg - someone is black) automatically means that it is a BAD thing said person is black.

We do?

Slightly trolled, thus the generalization of Brits as an intro.

The point remains that neither Evra nor Suarez thought the comments racist, but in England people are so willing to jump on the 'hate speech' bandwagon that Evra was happy to get Suarez banned.

Agarista: Slightly trolled, thus the generalization of Brits as an intro.

The point remains that neither Evra nor Suarez thought the comments racist, but in England people are so willing to jump on the 'hate speech' bandwagon that Evra was happy to get Suarez banned.

Are you sure Evra didn't think the comments racist?

According to his statement to the FA

http://krod.com/fa-is-wrong-with-decision-on-liverpools-luis-suarez/

Agarista: Brits (haha, now who's generalizing?) think that pointing out the obvious (eg - someone is black) automatically means that it is a BAD thing said person is black. They are so oversensitized to differences that they protect your own fears by refusing other people the ability to get over differences. Have you lived in England? Black people are occaisonal and segregated. Black is not hate language in English, and Negro is not hate language in Spanish. There is another similar word that is, but I understand that was not the word that was used.


Sticks and stones can break my bones but words shouldn't be that hurtful when you make £2.5 million

I think it's dumb to make it a crime, but I would say equating blacks with monkeys is a bit different than pointing out someone is black.

Agarista: According to his statement to the FA

http://krod.com/fa-is-wrong-with-decision-on-liverpools-luis-suarez/

Ah, a blog, second only to Wikipedia in terms of reliability.

I take it you're referring to:

"Evra himself in his written statement to the FA said "I don't think that Luis Suarez is racist". The FA in their opening remarks accepted that Luis Suarez was not racist. So how can the FA levy such a heavy fine or find him guilty?"

They (neither Evra or the FA) were attempting to establish Suarez as a racist. They were trying to determine if he'd committed a racist act. They found he had. From your same excellent source:

"...if there was no evidence that proved that Suarez used racial slurs, some 10 times during the match as Evra claims..."

Do you comprehend the difference?

Dude. The Americans are supposed to be the hypersensitive polically correct butthats, not the Brits. Did something get in the water a few years back?

Marcus Aurelius: That sort of thing is tolerated in the US so long as you don't start throwing poo around.

You've obviously never been to an Oakland Raiders game.

BravadoGT: Can't WAIT until the PC crowd gets their way and the Land of the Free™ gets similar laws here...

Yeah, because it'd be so farking easy to get two thirds of Congress and three fourths of the States to repeal the First Amendment to the Constitution. You're an asshole.

Farming idiots. As if Liverpool didn't have enough issues race wise with the Suarez thing.

Also, the Hillsborough chants from Man Utd fans are still as inappropriate as Munich chants would be towards them.

Hillsborough is also why the Sun's sales in Liverpool are so low, and that's a good thing.

Bathia_Mapes: "Monkey gesture"? Is that some sort of code word for flinging poo?

I jjust tell em they can suck macaaque.

Mugato: rjakobi: Dude. The Americans are supposed to be the hypersensitive polically correct butthats, not the Brits. Did something get in the water a few years back?

There's a "politically correct" sensibility in the US but it's just a lot of shrill people crying about shiat. There's a difference between that and actually having laws against politically incorrect speech.

Is that code for its OK to call Bush a monkey but not Obama?

Dawg47: BravadoGT: Can't WAIT until the PC crowd gets their way and the Land of the Free™ gets similar laws here...

Yeah, because it'd be so farking easy to get two thirds of Congress and three fourths of the States to repeal the First Amendment to the Constitution. You're an asshole.

All that needs to happen is for SCOTUS to carve out a "hate speech" exemption kinda like they have done repeatedly by carving out drug war exemptions involving the fourth amendment. If the courts aren't willing to enforce the constitution this kinda shiat will happen in the US too. Repealing the first wouldn't be necessary.

basemetal: That's a crime over there? Really? That's just pathetic.

Don't you have Hate Crime laws in the US already (new window)? I'm not being a smart arse, I genuinely don't know but the link I provided would seem to indicate you do.

socalnewwaver: to be technically accurate, two players racially abused each other, one was banned, and the other one, despite admitting to using the slur in his own testimony, was not.

Really? What did Evra say that was racist?

basemetal: That's a crime over there? Really? That's just pathetic.

It is only fair dos to show open despise male crackers in Ol' Blighty. And you had better only hate them if they are not active Muslims, Hindus, Poofs, Jews, Pikeys, Gypos, Catholics, needy Sefrican Immigrants, Welsh or dozey pensioners. Otherwise its them who will be sporting a little something extra in their dole packets and you who'll be sporting an ABSO. Its yer basic EUtopia for schemey jobsworths and layabouts who only ask for a bit posher council housing,a decent coke dealer and respect from those who oppress them and their chosen way of life.

Mugato: But since you brought it up for no apparent reason, yes, it is more offensive to depict Obama as a monkey than Bush because of historical racist stereotypes. But I'm sure you knew that.

More offensive? So its shades of grey rather than black and white?

Im In Love With Americans: basemetal: That's a crime over there? Really? That's just pathetic.

Don't you have Hate Crime laws in the US already (new window)? I'm not being a smart arse, I genuinely don't know but the link I provided would seem to indicate you do.

Hate crime not hate speech. You could walk passed a bunch a gay guys and call them queer/fag/whatever not a crime. If you are beating the shiat out of them and call the queer/fag/whatever you could have a hate crime charge added and it could enhance the punishment. YMMV depending where in the US.

socalnewwaver: "to be technically accurate, two players racially abused each other, one was banned, and the other one, despite admitting to using the slur in his own testimony, was not."

Heres the relevant section from the FA hearing (new window):

"Mr Suarez told us that he said "por que, negro?" in response to Mr Evra saying "Don't touch me, South American". At one point in his interview with the FA, Mr Suarez said that Mr Evra used the words "Don't touch me, sudamericano". In his evidence to us, he said that Mr Evra's words were "Don't touch me, South American", all in English."

So Evra didn't use the pejorative term you claim. Whereas Suarez did.

Ow! That was my feelings!: Hate crime not hate speech. You could walk passed a bunch a gay guys and call them queer/fag/whatever not a crime. If you are beating the shiat out of them and call the queer/fag/whatever you could have a hate crime charge added and it could enhance the punishment. YMMV depending where in the US.

OK, thanks.

Ow! That was my feelings!: Hate crime not hate speech. You could walk passed a bunch a gay guys and call them queer/fag/whatever not a crime. If you are beating the shiat out of them and call the queer/fag/whatever you could have a hate crime charge added and it could enhance the punishment. YMMV depending where in the US.

Here they make up weird laws to circumvent and neuter freedoms of speech, press, religion, keeping and bearing arms etc etc etc whenever someone has the audacity to excercise their rights in unapproved and unsupervised manners. The assnuggets from that kansas cult who travel the nation's military funeral circuit with big signs about God and Queers and America and Hell have already had bizarre vague laws passed to stop them from protesting. Which seems nice and wonderful now but not 20 years from now when they use these laws against whomever dares to be unpopular with a local DA and says anything rude within 3 miles of a funeral on a Friday

I like monkeys.

Monkey gestures are ok, but I think spear-chucker or cotton-picker would be more historically relevant.
After all, we only just "think" blacks descended from apes, (recently) as spear-chucker and cotton-picker we have recent proof of.

A Brit making a monkey gesture? What an amateur...

slyde: Monkey gestures are ok, but I think spear-chucker or cotton-picker would be more historically relevant.
After all, we only just "think" blacks descended from apes, (recently) as spear-chucker and cotton-picker we have recent proof of.

agrees