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(Herald Tribune (SW Florida))   55-year-old Florida man claiming Indian descent wears war paint, headdresses, and performs sacred dance ceremonies at heritage festivals across the state. Some Native Americans have a problem with this (w/ pic of alleged Indian)   (heraldtribune.com ) divider line
    More: Florida, Native American, Fighting Sioux, cultural heritage, Englewood, festivals, sacred dance, Ed Winddancer  
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24015 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jan 2012 at 1:07 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-29 10:02:29 AM  

wellreadneck: liam76: batcookie: orbister: batcookie:
I never heard of tax free living, the ability to create your own govt, create casinos etc as a 'rock'.

Quite often, the place reserved for that tax free, self-governing, create your own casino living was 'rock'. If it wasn't rock it was a swamp or some other left-over inarable parcel of land.


I am not saying they didn't get a shiat deal 100 years ago, I am saying now it is a good deal and most of their problems are of their own creation.
 
2012-01-29 10:09:29 AM  

batcookie: orbister: batcookie: Sure, you can learn the history and the war dances all day long and claim to be an Indian, but until you've lived with the REAL modern Indian experience, including the bigotry and poverty or having your house burned to the ground because if they were to allow the fire hydrants to be put in, they'll lose their independence as a community...

Are we supposed to feel sympathy for people who refuse to have fire hydrants and then moan when their houses burn down?

"Refuse" sorta gives a misrepresentation of the situation. They don't have the money or resources to have their own system, and the US government says if you use ours, you don't get to be your own sovereign people anymore. They're stuck between a rock and an on-fire place.


If they want to keep pretending they are a "sovereign people" then they get to deal with the consequences.
 
2012-01-29 10:09:29 AM  
Why would I write the comment if I didn't know the guy was not an Indian? Why would I include the picture?

Everybody gives Grey Owl a pass?

Oh and that brilliant segue was all I could come up with in order to post that picture.
 
2012-01-29 10:09:38 AM  

batcookie: orbister: Are we supposed to feel sympathy for people who refuse to have fire hydrants and then moan when their houses burn down?

"Refuse" sorta gives a misrepresentation of the situation. They don't have the money or resources to have their own system, and the US government says if you use ours, you don't get to be your own sovereign people anymore. They're stuck between a rock and an on-fire place.


What about all those brazillions of dollars from casinos?
 
2012-01-29 10:11:29 AM  
I can see why having a white person perform your sacred ceremonies might be extremely annoying. However, fact of the matter is that only a tiny handful of "Native Americans" have enough "Native American" blood to really count, and as long as they're going to stay on their reservations and live by their own rules, their laws don't apply to anyone living off-reservation. I'm perfectly happy to ban this guy as soon as they shut down their casinos.
 
2012-01-29 10:15:32 AM  

Thai_Mai_Xhu: Mayhem of the Black Underclass: I'm about to shed a tear over how harshly he's treating native cultures:
[struckbyenlightning.files.wordpress.com image 310x266]

Pic?
Pic is of Iron Eyes Cody.
Cody was Italian.
Not Indigenous American.


i249.photobucket.com
 
2012-01-29 10:33:17 AM  
farm4.staticflickr.com

Seems legit...
 
2012-01-29 10:37:44 AM  
Sal Serbin: The butt hurt is strong with this one.
 
2012-01-29 10:50:07 AM  
You only have to be like 1/8th Native American to claim it for federal minority status purposes.

If you are 1/8th native American there is a perfectly good chance you could be blond haired blue eyed Hitler's wet dream "aryan" looking.
 
2012-01-29 10:53:25 AM  
Actually the fact the guy looks white as hell means nothing. Consider:

My coworker's parternal grandmother is Cherokee and his paternal grandfather is white. So his father had a white Y chromosome and a Cherokee X. He of course got the Y chromosome from his father. So Cherokee ancestry, but no Cherokee genetics.
 
2012-01-29 11:09:42 AM  
"This sad little lizard told me that he was a brontosaurus on his mother's side. I did not laugh; people who boast of ancestry often have little else to sustain them. Humouring them costs nothing and adds to happiness in a world in which happiness is always in short supply." - RAH
 
2012-01-29 11:28:32 AM  

ha-ha-guy: Actually the fact the guy looks white as hell means nothing. Consider:

My coworker's parternal grandmother is Cherokee and his paternal grandfather is white. So his father had a white Y chromosome and a Cherokee X. He of course got the Y chromosome from his father. So Cherokee ancestry, but no Cherokee genetics.


[notsureifserious.jpg]
 
2012-01-29 11:32:45 AM  

ha-ha-guy: Actually the fact the guy looks white as hell means nothing. Consider:

My coworker's parternal grandmother is Cherokee and his paternal grandfather is white. So his father had a white Y chromosome and a Cherokee X. He of course got the Y chromosome from his father. So Cherokee ancestry, but no Cherokee genetics.


Um. Yeah.

My family all came over here betwixt or after World Wars, so I can just about guarantee a complete lack of Native blood. But I did know a kid who was half Native and half Polish who got mistaken for Chinese all the damn time. He was pretty cool.

Knew two kids in college who were on full rides due to their ancestry - they still had to work their asses off to get in, though, and were both pretty awesome people.
 
2012-01-29 11:58:09 AM  

32oz High Life: kyrg: I know, there is nothing in their cultural past, or present to warrant such feelings.

Crotchrocket Slim: It's not like there's a historical context to the whole thing or anything. It's also a good thing there isn't a cottage industry of charlatans selling "herbal" "medicine" under the guise of being Native American "Medicine Men" while having no ties to any tribe or any ethnobotanical instruction whatsoever. It's a good thing that these things aren't true, as otherwise your post would come off as very ignorant.

I've never really bought into the whole "They were harmed by racism so they have the right to be racist themselves" argument. I mean, I can understand where it comes from, but revenge doesn't really seem like the best solution.


You don't think they'd want to protect themselves from having their identity further raped over by any two-bit asshole who sees the potential for profit? That's a big part of this past and a big part of why proving tribal membership is a huge pain in the ass. Dopey white people stealing Native American cultural ideas and twisting them into Newagey BS makes a lot of very unethical people a LOT of money each year.
 
2012-01-29 11:59:55 AM  
Ward Churchill and the ghost of Grey Owl are insanely jealous.
 
2012-01-29 12:05:57 PM  
Mayhem of the Black Underclass

Funny. The Indian in your picture is actually an Italian guy, chosen to play the role on that ad because he looked the part. (Source: Cracked.com)

When I was a kid, in many ways the American Indian culture was admired. Mainly because of the mass of Cowboy and Indian movies. Kids tended to perceive them as wise warriors who lived off the land. The Boy Scouts used several versions of Indian lore in their system, with one of the highest levels to be achieved as Weebelo (SP). It was a great honor to be selected for that group.

We had an Indian guy and his wife who used to appear at Scout gatherings and he taught a lot of survival skills, did things like discuss Indian lore and -- got himself frozen into a block of ice. Scouts would labor hard to make their own Indian headdresses, clothing and equipment as accurate as possible. Those in Weebelo's studied and performed native dances for special occasions. They learned more extensive wood lore. Some went on survival campouts.

We had the Seminole Indians around town when I was a kid and they sold hand made Cypress out door furniture while dressed in their colorful clothing. Folks bough quite a bit of those chairs because Cypress didn't rot that fast when exposed to the weather and the Indians did a prime job of making them.

Then there were the NA Powwows, which drew a lot of folks to see the colorful costumes, the real tee pee's, native American handiwork and the exotic looking people. Many folks were interested in NA skills.

Political Correctness pretty well squashed that attitude. Suddenly Indians were NATIVE AMERICANS and you had to step carefully so as not to insult or exploit them.

Then came the squabbles over NA rights, the use of their own land and out came documentary after documentary about how badly they had been treated and how badly they treated others. Kids were discouraged from playing Cowboys and Indians. Reports showed Indians living on reservations that looked like slums. More reports displayed squabbles among the NA themselves. Lawsuits were filed over discrimination and out came lengthy, 'accurate' movies about how badly the White Man treated the Indians.

The Seminoles stopped coming into town decades ago. We have some reservations scattered about, but they seem to concentrate on alligator wrestling and such for tourists. Generally, the previous friendly and respectful attitude towards them has changed.

It's been drilled into kids that playing like an Indian is disrespectful. Then we get to hear about how we're stealing their traditional skills and heritage. Lawsuits have been filed.

It gets damn confusing.
 
2012-01-29 12:27:17 PM  
There was a "fatal attraction animal planet" show that had a "native expert and tribe member". Pale as hell, looked like a car salesman dressed in tourist trap indian garb. Name was probably Bob Runningbear Wachowski. He had dyed feathers tied up all over the place and burned some rolled up sage while waving it around in some "ritual". My mother who married a Lumi turned to me and said right now a across the nation one indian watching this show is turning to another and asking "do we do anything like that?, what the hell is he doing?".
 
2012-01-29 12:28:40 PM  
recommended:

img2.imagesbn.com
 
2012-01-29 12:42:04 PM  

AbbeySomeone: IMHO Native Americans are extremely racist and discriminatory.


And stupid. Don't forget really, really stupid.

/1/16th indian
 
2012-01-29 12:45:19 PM  
Everyone knows Indians are horrible drunks and racists
 
2012-01-29 12:47:30 PM  
Holy shiat, another column in the sidebar is farking hilarious:

Just after exiting a classical piano concert, well-dressed people are awaiting the mini-buses that will take them back to their upscale retirement centers when one of them stumbles and falls back, causing a chain-reaction of falls in the elderly crowd as numerous Mozart fans end up sprawled on the sidewalk.

"This terrible domino thing happened. Everybody fell on everybody else,"

"I am flat on my back in bed, I have a fractured pelvis, and the whole damn place should be torn down,"


HAHA! Dumbass old people, farking die already.
 
2012-01-29 12:48:20 PM  
Poor Sal sounds a little butt-hurt. I'm sure it's annoying to see Ed doing his thing at festivals, but I doubt there's a "cease and desist faux activities" law or something, but ianal.

I live in the South, and I think I'm one of the few that has no known Native American heritage. At all.

/German-English mom, 1/2 Serbian dad
//I almost forgot about ol Ward Churchill! Didn't he get fired from UC for having a fake resume?
 
2012-01-29 12:57:46 PM  

batcookie: First JFK says "Hey guys, you know that Treaty of Canandaigua that George Washington signed with you guys saying you can have this land? WELL GUESS WHAT! IT'S KINZUA DAM TIME!


JFK was a racist asshole.
/descendant of Seneca Cornplanters.
 
2012-01-29 01:00:08 PM  
Serbin has Sioux lineage and often protests Winddancer's appearances with signs that read "Liar" and "Cultural Thief."

What a joke. "Oh, how dare he steal our culture of not making ANY technological advances in thousands of years despite living in one of the most resource-rich continents on the planet."

Yeah, he's stealing your "culture" of wearing bird feathers and animal hides while dancing around like an idiot. Great argument.
 
Ehh
2012-01-29 01:12:39 PM  
I'll just leave this here.
 
2012-01-29 01:15:39 PM  
I really love how rez rats suck up to the federal gov's quantum blood theory as if they were show poodles with a pedigree.

Great Granma Sixkiller told me I was Cherokee. According to the old, true traditions, if your mom is Cherokee, then so are you. It's matrilineal.

She told me stories of how her mom hid the family in the Appalachias to avoid walking the Trail of Tears. Years later when the census takers came by her home, she show them the business end of her shotgun to prove she was "white." She knew they used blood quantum to find Indians and put 'em on the reservations.

So, because I have relatives who are smart enough to not trust the government, I get shiat from "purebloods" that I'm not Native.

I tell 'em to go have an insulin shot and a drink.
 
2012-01-29 01:17:04 PM  
www.wearysloth.com

The only good Indian actor I know of.
 
2012-01-29 01:33:25 PM  

batcookie: thespindrifter: batcookie: On the one hand, they celebrate their rich cultural heritage, but on the other hand they don't want to get caught up in that "good Indian" role with whitey expecting them to do rain dances for him at his will. They deal with a great deal of racism still and they are STILL getting shafted by the US Government at every freaking turn. Say what you will about the casinos, but it's the way they get by.

Well, that and being highly adaptive. In Mississippi, the casinoes will/used to? gladly take the title to your house if you wanted more chips. That's one way to get your land back: one property at a time :)
Then there is the Niagara Mohawks; when they don't get their way, they just start an awesome tire fire on the NY State Throughway on the section that runs smack-dab through the middle of Seneca land.
So there's that. They just have to be creative, and the rest is details.

The Niagara Mohawks... good example. The shiat they put up with from the government trying to steal their land is way worse. It's not about getting their way, it's about getting these hostile white invaders to leave them alone, STILL, centuries later. First JFK says "Hey guys, you know that Treaty of Canandaigua that George Washington signed with you guys saying you can have this land? WELL GUESS WHAT! IT'S KINZUA DAM TIME!" Then they have to fight to prevent that same administration for stealing yet MORE of their land to build a highway... 'cause we always need more of those. Then they go "hey, stealing their land to build a dam was so fun the first time... let's do it again!" so they built the St Lawrence Seaway which, while great for the US economy, has hurt the reservation's ability to independently exist, raising the water levels and actually submerging parts of their land, thus decreasing agricultural opportunities, and changing the oxygen levels in the water therefore preventing fish from normally spawning, so the fishing opportunities have also decreased, and even t ...


I lived next to that reservation, I went to school with many kids from the tribe. I hung out with them on the reservation often. I would hear this same tired bullshiat first hand except it'd be at 3pm from both drunk parents, neither of whom have a job or have looked for one for years. Natives blaming the white man for their problems is a farking sport.
 
2012-01-29 01:35:29 PM  

Coyote Doyenne: if your mom is Cherokee, then so are you. It's matrilineal.


Mom's mom's mom survived the trail, and went through the Carlisle School system.
Mom's Mom married a Seneca.
Dad's mom was a jewish black slave.
Dad's dad was white.
I'm a Heinz 57.
 
2012-01-29 01:35:48 PM  
Looks like someone is getting back at us for those infected blankets.

lh5.googleusercontent.com
 
2012-01-29 01:37:29 PM  

insertsnarkyusername: Natives blaming the white man for their problems is a farking sport.


Grandfather graduated PSU with a dual degree in agriculture and business. Started his own dairy, and owned thousands of acres when he died. He wasn't a show off Injun. He hid in plain site. He just didn't go to church except for his wife's funeral.
 
2012-01-29 01:42:53 PM  
Who cares? It sounds like this guy, "real" native american or not, respects their culture and does his best to represent it in an authentic, positive manner. That's a lot more than can be said for many of the registered native americans on reservations today.
 
2012-01-29 01:49:34 PM  

ha-ha-guy: Actually the fact the guy looks white as hell means nothing. Consider:

My coworker's parternal grandmother is Cherokee and his paternal grandfather is white. So his father had a white Y chromosome and a Cherokee X. He of course got the Y chromosome from his father. So Cherokee ancestry, but no Cherokee genetics.


Except for the 50% from his mother.
 
2012-01-29 01:53:51 PM  

vudukungfu: insertsnarkyusername: Natives blaming the white man for their problems is a farking sport.

Grandfather graduated PSU with a dual degree in agriculture and business. Started his own dairy, and owned thousands of acres when he died. He wasn't a show off Injun. He hid in plain site. He just didn't go to church except for his wife's funeral.


Maybe I seem angry about but I live next to another reservation now. This whole system seems set up to trap them, keep them there and keep them from making a life for themselves. It's a damn shame, even the kids with obvious talent are discouraged from leaving or go to the local indian college for school. I've heard parents telling their kids not to think about college because the tribe is what is important. Then go back to eating government food and watching tv.
 
2012-01-29 01:54:50 PM  

sovietski: Poor Sal sounds a little butt-hurt. I'm sure it's annoying to see Ed doing his thing at festivals, but I doubt there's a "cease and desist faux activities" law or something, but ianal.

I live in the South, and I think I'm one of the few that has no known Native American heritage. At all.

/German-English mom, 1/2 Serbian dad
//I almost forgot about ol Ward Churchill! Didn't he get fired from UC for having a fake resume?


Oh yeah! Winston Churchill had Cherokee (I think) on his mother's side. I'd forgotten about that. Who looks less Indian than Winston Churchill?
 
2012-01-29 01:55:17 PM  
How war paint is applied in Florida:
www.geekeshop.com
 
2012-01-29 01:59:33 PM  

chookbillion: ha-ha-guy: Actually the fact the guy looks white as hell means nothing. Consider:

My coworker's parternal grandmother is Cherokee and his paternal grandfather is white. So his father had a white Y chromosome and a Cherokee X. He of course got the Y chromosome from his father. So Cherokee ancestry, but no Cherokee genetics.

Except for the 50% from his mother.


Oops. I have no reading comprehension.
 
2012-01-29 02:16:18 PM  
Y'know, unless someone's running a scam, this fight sounds really damn retarded.
 
2012-01-29 02:26:37 PM  

Zombalupagus: I just want to put this out there:

If you have even one drop of Cherokee blood in you then you can claim Cherokee if you have the desire to do so.


On the other hand, you cannot claim you were descended from a Cherokee princess.
 
2012-01-29 02:29:08 PM  
I always did get a kick out of the folks who had 1/10,000 of some race from some very distant ancestor and identified themselves solely as this. My background comes from Muskogee, Cherokee, German, Norwegian, and Scandinavian and I think all of those are pretty awesome. Now pardon me, but in the next 26 minutes I've got to call up some ancestral spirits to assist my well organized and brutally efficient raid into Ireland tonight.
 
2012-01-29 02:57:00 PM  
Are you sure you're Indian?

Are you sure you're not... Dutch?

Link (new window)
 
2012-01-29 02:59:12 PM  
I'm your average American mutt: half German, quarter French, and part Irish and English. My English ancestors immigrated in the 16th century, and legend has it Native American blood was introduced at some point down the line. But it was centuries ago and the history went through those times when you did not acknowledge it, and so far as I know the tribal information was lost. My chin and high cheekbones together suggest it, but I certainly do not go around claiming it, and only ever mention it selectively within that specific conversation topic. It's too touchy a subject for many folks.
 
2012-01-29 03:05:03 PM  

Tainted1: I've got to call up some ancestral spirits to assist my well organized and brutally efficient raid into Ireland tonight.


Fine, but then you'll have to put up with hundreds of years of them writing sad songs and poetry about the troubles you'll inflict.
 
2012-01-29 03:15:06 PM  

Tainted1: ancest


Isn't that the truth, though? I've got some Cree waaaay back in my ancestry, but I don't really consider that part of my background since it's so miniscule. Instead I identify with being of Norwegian/Irish descent.
 
2012-01-29 03:53:11 PM  

vudukungfu: I'm a Heinz 57.


That is excellent! I've also got a good bit of Scotch/Irish in me, too. Just like any good Cherokee.

And, what the show poodles never realize: it's the Heinz 57's who will survive.

/fistbump
 
2012-01-29 03:58:02 PM  
He is not of the pure bloodline! He must be stopped. Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer!
 
2012-01-29 04:10:16 PM  

Coyote Doyenne: vudukungfu: I'm a Heinz 57.

That is excellent! I've also got a good bit of Scotch/Irish in me, too. Just like any good Cherokee.

And, what the show poodles never realize: it's the Heinz 57's who will survive.

/fistbump


And another. The Scotch/Irish/Cherokee is my mother's family. We all come out looking Irish or Cherokee (I have Irish color but the Cherokee build). Father was Cajun (with more Cherokee and who the hell knows or cares what else) with a German father.

I prefer to just check "mixed", the list is long and well-blended.

I married a Spanish/Mestizo Hispanic. My kids say they have too many boxes to check for race or culture. One took a series of tests that didn't have a "Mixed" option and made him pick only one. He took each test and rotated what race/culture he chose checking all his options at least once. They hate to disrespect any specific grandparent.

One of my children looks like a typical Native/Hispanic cross and is dark for both sides of the family. We did have a little bit of discrimination once when she was in school. Hilarity ensued when an angry "white"-looking professional parent showed up. Doctor's also kept marking her as "adopted" dammit. She looks just like my sister on the Cherokee side (who got that color)!
 
2012-01-29 04:17:40 PM  
I come from a long line of fair-haired, blue-eyes folks and yet we can quite definitively trace our ancestry to multiple Native American tribes, freed Virginia slaves, and 17th century Angolans. The truth is that most people descended from immigrant groups or peoples from well-trafficked areas could do the same if they were lucky enough to have extensive family records survive through the generations. Modern notions of race are absurd.

/Was told to leave a tribal cemetery when I was a kid because of my hair color. Too bad my mom spoke more fluent Ojibwe than the dark-haired arbiter of all things authentic.
 
2012-01-29 04:26:29 PM  

Oldiron_79: You only have to be like 1/8th Native American to claim it for federal minority status purposes.

If you are 1/8th native American there is a perfectly good chance you could be blond haired blue eyed Hitler's wet dream "aryan" looking.


Yeah, me and my siblings are 1/8 Blackfoot, and my brother has dark blond hair & blue eyes. My sis and I have brown hair and eyes but we're really pale (we're like 1/2 German too). Living in S. Texas everyone looks at me and thinks Mexican. I'd like to be able to prove the tribal connection just so I don't look like a poseur, but my g'mother was never issued a birth certificate so the attempts to trace my family tree stop short with her.

I get Indians not wanting white people to appropriate their culture. My mom apparently thought my blood was enough license for her white ass to pursue "Native American" culture. Of course it was that silly mishmash of pseudospiritualism that hippies are so fond of, so it just embarrassed me.
 
2012-01-29 04:29:13 PM  

rnatalie: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 386x503]

Actually, I thought the indians were descendants of the thirteenth tribe of Kobol.


I have a sneaking suspicion that that book will also show that "Ed Winddancer" translates roughly to "new age hippie douche-nozzle." But I could be wrong...
 
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