I liked the SOTU for the most part, but that was a really stupid idea. Given the fact that virtually every state is slashing higher ed budgets past the bone, telling schools that they can't raise tuition or they'll suffer federal aid cuts indicates a fundamental lack of understanding.

Don't get me wrong -- tuition is going up at ridiculous rates. There's no doubt of this. However, the REASON it's going up isn't because of some conspiracy on the part of universities to screw with students. It's because they're getting less in the way of operating expenses from other places. My school has taken about a 30% cut in state funds over the last three years. Not the pretend "cuts in the proposed increases" -- we're getting 30% less in state funds than we did three years ago. While our population is increasing. So either the Fed steps in and fills that gap, or we increase tuition. Or we reduce the size of the institution (which will result in lower funding, which starts the cycle over again).

And don't even try the "professors are paid so much OMG" argument. The ones who make the big bucks are the ones that pull in ten times their salary in grants. ADMINISTRATORS are overpaid. COACHES are overpaid. We faculty aren't the problem.

The thing you miss with the football coaches is that the major Div I-A college football system is the defacto Number 2 sports league in the U.S. (in a recent poll, College Football was tied with baseball at 13% behind the NFL at 36% with the question to sports fans "If you had to pick one sport, which would be your favorite"). Honestly, it is like major universities are operating a professional football league as a side company off of the schools, except that they don't pay the players anything other than free tuition (which is a pretty good perk if they take advantage of it right). So, those coaches are being paid because of the level that their successful programs bring money in, and nothing more. If you don't "overpay" the coaches, you also probably don't get the insane TV and other revenues from the Football program.

I'd like to tear down the student loan system, scrub the evil from it, and then rebuild it.

The biggest problem right now is that politicians have always cut funding for education in time of economic troubles. And they never seem to put money back in.

dletter: The thing you miss with the football coaches is that the major Div I-A college football system is the defacto Number 2 sports league in the U.S. (in a recent poll, College Football was tied with baseball at 13% behind the NFL at 36% with the question to sports fans "If you had to pick one sport, which would be your favorite"). Honestly, it is like major universities are operating a professional football league as a side company off of the schools, except that they don't pay the players anything other than free tuition (which is a pretty good perk if they take advantage of it right). So, those coaches are being paid because of the level that their successful programs bring money in, and nothing more. If you don't "overpay" the coaches, you also probably don't get the insane TV and other revenues from the Football program.

schools and education are the sideline - the college system these days is all about pumping out star football players and making money for the school.

Weaver95: I'd like to tear down the student loan system, scrub the evil from it, and then rebuild it.

How about a 1% national sales tax that pays tuition for any student at any accredited school who graduates from high school with a C+ average or better.

Weaver95: I'd like to tear down the student loan system, scrub the evil from it, and then rebuild it.

I'm not sure about the student loans being "evil" I think the main problem is that the promise of a "better life" that a degree offers no longer exists.

That and when you that non executive salaries have stagnated for the last 30 years, means the average parent cannot afford to put enough away for college.

It is absolutely true that many states look to higher funding as the first place to get cut, and they have done a major disservice to colleges and universities across the country as a result. Should a lot of that funding be restored? absolutely...if you could get states to stop wasting the funds on other useless crap, or *gasp* raise some revenue to compensate.

BUT...

Schools need to severely rethink their priorities, and where the students' tuition money goes. In other words, stop building 5-star hotel dorms and $50 million dollar high fashion department buildings, and invest it in subsidized textbooks and campus network hardware. Stop building million dollar weight rooms for the football team and paying the coach NFL level salary bonuses just to play in the Bowl each year. Invest that money into increased teacher salaries and financial aid opportunities.

Darth_Lukecash: Weaver95: I'd like to tear down the student loan system, scrub the evil from it, and then rebuild it.

I'm not sure about the student loans being "evil" I think the main problem is that the promise of a "better life" that a degree offers no longer exists.

That and when you that non executive salaries have stagnated for the last 30 years, means the average parent cannot afford to put enough away for college.

that certainly doesn't help. I'm lucky - computers are as much a hobby for me as they are a career and I got in on the deal relatively early. But even that's no longer a safe bet these days.

This whole system is a house of cards propped up by federal money.
Every time a college raises its tuition it is in effect begging the feds for more money... because tuitions have long since become unaffordable for mere mortals, and any further increase will be paid out almost entirely in the form of student loans and grants.

At some point there will be sufficient pressure from the right (austerity!), the left (debt is slavery!) or both to prompt the passage of some sort of Student Loan Reform Act which will greatly reduce the amount of federal tuition assistance available.
That's when everything will turn to smoke...

Weaver95: I'd like to tear down the student loan system, scrub the evil from it, and then rebuild it.

What, exactly, do you think is wrong with the current federal student loan program? Keep in mind that the government completely kicked out all the private lenders in 2010.

dahmers love zombie: We faculty aren't the problem.

Well sadly sometimes faculty is the problem and you know it. Professors who use grant money to line their own pockets. Lazy Professors with tenure that don't pull their weight leaving underpaid and overworked adjuct faculty and grad students to pick up the slack. Professors who game the system. i know there are good profs out there. But I just finished grad school with a MFA and I can tell you that the profs that gave a damn were maybe 30%. And ALL of them were embroiled in petty bullshiat conflict within their department and the campus at large. Campus Colleges are like Medieval Italian city-states and it is very detrimental to students who have to deal with dysfunctional departments. Dysfunctional to the point that you cant get the classes you need to graduate within a 6 year time frame because of how poorly the department is run.

The whole thing is an awful mess in part because of tenured faculty and staff whose only motivation is to minimize their workload.

Mind you I don't know what the answer is but I know it's going to take massive reform at every level to make higher education viable. Grad students got their access to Stafford loans cut this year which is going to end the gravy train of free instructors.

quickdraw: Grad students got their access to Stafford loans cut this year which is going to end the gravy train of free instructors.

No they didn't. Direct Loans (Stafford were the only privately held but government backed loans) are the same amount. There is no longer a subsidy associated with them.

NuttierThanEver: How about a 1% national sales tax that pays tuition for any student at any accredited school who graduates from high school with a C+ average or better.

No, sorry, too much of my tax money already goes to public schools that I never used, and never will use.

serpent_sky: No, sorry, too much of my tax money already goes to public schools that I never used, and never will use.

I don't drive, so I feel the same way about roads.
I've got a gun, too, so I feel the same way about defense.

NuttierThanEver: Weaver95: I'd like to tear down the student loan system, scrub the evil from it, and then rebuild it.

How about a 1% national sales tax that pays tuition for any student at any accredited school who graduates from high school with a C+ average or better.

The idea has merit in theory, but there are already too many people with useless liberal arts degrees as it is. Tuition breaks should be limited to professions that are actually in demand.

serpent_sky: NuttierThanEver: How about a 1% national sales tax that pays tuition for any student at any accredited school who graduates from high school with a C+ average or better.

No, sorry, too much of my tax money already goes to public schools that I never used, and never will use.

You do realize that an educated proletariat is more likely to work hard to improve their lot in life and a lot less likely to show up at your mansion with pitchforks and torches when the revolution comes?

/let them eat vouchers.

NuttierThanEver: Weaver95: I'd like to tear down the student loan system, scrub the evil from it, and then rebuild it.

How about a 1% national sales tax that pays tuition for any student at any accredited school who graduates from high school with a C+ average or better.

That's a terrible idea rooted in the misbelief that everybody needs a college education. That same mentality is why we have hordes of unemployed Bisexual Asian Studies majors occupying various cities, crying about their debt. Your proposal would just shift the burden from just those students to all taxpayers.

I might have listened if you'd said B+ or better. Giving smart people money to make them smarter is a good investment, but even then I'd say to only consider it on what I tend to call "real" fields of study. Computer Science major making straight As? Give that guy some money. Sanskrit major making straight As? Meh.

NuttierThanEver: You do realize that an educated proletariat is more likely to work hard to improve their lot in life and a lot less likely to show up at your mansion with pitchforks and torches when the revolution comes?

I'm pretty sure my house isn't a mansion, unless it has a whole lot of rooms that I have yet to discover. I barely get by, though, and have no interest in paying a single cent more in taxes for anything

Weaver95: I'd like to tear down the student loan system, scrub the evil from it, and then rebuild it.

Part of the reason schools charge so much is because the students can pay it...if they borrow from the government and then pay that back over the next 25 years. Dry up the borrowing, you dry up the demand which in turn drives down the price.

However, the result of that is fewer educated people.

My thought...just spit balling here...is revenue sharing. All NCAA sports profits go into a pool and then are shared among all NCAA schools equally...to be used solely to cover all those costs raising the tuition rates.

That way, everyone profits from the fact that Ohio State's football program, while not completely unresponsible for crime in Columbus, it does bring in a pretty penny.

serpent_sky: NuttierThanEver: You do realize that an educated proletariat is more likely to work hard to improve their lot in life and a lot less likely to show up at your mansion with pitchforks and torches when the revolution comes?

I'm pretty sure my house isn't a mansion, unless it has a whole lot of rooms that I have yet to discover. I barely get by, though, and have no interest in paying a single cent more in taxes for anything

Then you'll get the decaying society you deserve

NPR is a liberal rag, not to be trusted.

Right, "conservatives?"

dittybopper:

A radio broadcasting organization a 'rag'? I thought the epithet 'rag' was limited to print media. After all, you can't wipe your ass with radio waves, and trust me, as a ham, I've *TRIED*.

You're a delicious pork product?

edmo: cnngps.files.wordpress.com

so if i'm reading this right, the separation between public and private school tuition started around 2001. so...recession-based state funding cutbacks or islamo-fascism?

Weaver95: I'd like to tear down the student loan system, scrub the evil from it, and then rebuild it.

I don't think we should be lending money to kids who aren't smart enough to get scholarships. I don't get the whole "we want an educated populace" thing. We're talking about dummies here. Education is wasted on them. All these nitwits going to college have done nothing but devalue a college education

rumpelstiltskin: Weaver95: I'd like to tear down the student loan system, scrub the evil from it, and then rebuild it.

I don't think we should be lending money to kids who aren't smart enough to get scholarships. I don't get the whole "we want an educated populace" thing. We're talking about dummies here. Education is wasted on them. All these nitwits going to college have done nothing but devalue a college education

they make borderline nitwits like me look fantastic by comparison though. i say let them stay.

Darth_Lukecash: The biggest problem right now is that politicians have always cut funding for education in time of economic troubles. And they never seem to put money back in.

there has been virtually unlimited money.
that might be the problem.
higher education has even outpaced medical inflation by a huge margin on the backs of loans guaranteed by the fed (which means anyone on earth can get one for almost anything from anywhere) that cannot even be discharged in the event of bankruptcy by the student. the rate of inflation is almost impossible to fathom.
everything in this country is a f*cking racket.
this is the best thing obama has done. (gay thing was nice as well).