Well I gotta say that the IPA and darker larger markets are pretty much tapped, might as wells start getting into the hefeweizen and wheat beer market. I never see those as much as the others, especially in the microbreweries.

/Suck it haters, I love me some bavarian hefeweizen

The market for start-ups are over unless you have the greatest beer formula ever and will take over the world with it. The MillerCoors, and Buds of the world will produce shiatty light beers. Yuengling will go national at some point, filling the demand for cheap, quality beer. And microbrews will still be around but will be too price restrictive for a national market. I often feel bad for states who can't get a case of real dark lager like Yuengling for cheaper than a case of Coors Light.

I'm 34 and thought I hated beer all these years. Turns out I just hate most beers, especially commercial beers. A friend is looking to start a brewery and brought a bottle of his beer to sample one night at dinner. I would have drank the entire (large) bottle had I not been forced to share. The stuff was amazing. In my mind there are not enough microbreweries since an ideal world would be one where Budweiser, Miller and the rest of that slop would be out-competed by better, smaller beer companies. Of course, us Americans can't ever have good taste in anything on a large scale, so I'll have to be content to hunt down decent breweries on a city by city basis.

WTF Indeed: The market for start-ups are over unless you have the greatest beer formula ever and will take over the world with it. The MillerCoors, and Buds of the world will produce shiatty light beers. Yuengling will go national at some point, filling the demand for cheap, quality beer. And microbrews will still be around but will be too price restrictive for a national market. I often feel bad for states who can't get a case of real dark lager like Yuengling for cheaper than a case of Coors Light.

Also, you have to keep in mind the Budweiser, and to a lesser extent MillerCoors, are also trying to step into the specialty beer market. The advantage being that beers like Shock Top and the Michelob seasonals are about a dollar or two cheaper per sixpack than most microbrews. That will make it even harder for most microbreweries as consumers might care more about the $1.50 price difference than the difference in taste between, say, Shock Top and Great Lakes Holy Moses White Ale.

/All better.
//Have been on a bit of a Tripel kick lately.

Sun Worshiping Dog Launcher: In my mind there are not enough microbreweries since an ideal world would be one where Budweiser, Miller and the rest of that slop would be out-competed by better, smaller beer companies. Of course, us Americans can't ever have good taste in anything on a large scale, so I'll have to be content to hunt down decent breweries on a city by city basis.

That may be true in your mind. Your mind needs to come to Colorado.

/Pretty much any of the bigger cities will do.
//Except Trinidad. You can take that off the list.

Kava is the next big thing. Start investing.*


*I have no idea what I'm talking about.

This market won't be saturated until every neighborhood in Minneapolis had their own brewpub/brewery with attached tap room.

To dream the impossible dreeeeeeeam...

violentsalvation: WTF Indeed: The market for start-ups are over unless you have the greatest beer formula ever and will take over the world with it. The MillerCoors, and Buds of the world will produce shiatty light beers. Yuengling will go national at some point, filling the demand for cheap, quality beer. And microbrews will still be around but will be too price restrictive for a national market. I often feel bad for states who can't get a case of real dark lager like Yuengling for cheaper than a case of Coors Light.

Some markets are tougher than others, but Big beer is continually losing market share, specifically to craft beer. They would lose a whole hell of a lot more if the three-tier system didn't do the opposite as it is intended and allow SABMillerCoorsABInBev to monopolize the system. But no, the market for start-ups is not over, you might not take over the world, but you could fill a regional demand for real beer.

While the big brewers are losing market share, that doesn't necessarily mean new start-ups are in a good position. There's already so much competition in the microbrew market (especially IPAs) that it may be hard for a new company to break in. The Big 3 may be losing business, but that business isn't necessarily going to a startup, The local microbrew of choice is probably sucking off most of that business.

downstairs: That_Dude: While the big brewers are losing market share, that doesn't necessarily mean new start-ups are in a good position. There's already so much competition in the microbrew market (especially IPAs) that it may be hard for a new company to break in. The Big 3 may be losing business, but that business isn't necessarily going to a startup, The local microbrew of choice is probably sucking off most of that business.

I think it depends where you build your microbrewery. Some cities are saturated, others not so much. Up until recently there were very few here in New Orleans. Now 2-3 have sprouted up and are selling pretty well.

That's a fair point, but the reason why the cities with fewer microbreweries have fewer microbreweries is because it is harder to sell craft beers in those places. Also, nearby competitors who decide to move into those cities may have an advantage over start-ups. Still, I can't imagine there are that many microbreweries in the south, and the influx of northerners might change that.

Stabone33: Sun Worshiping Dog Launcher: In my mind there are not enough microbreweries since an ideal world would be one where Budweiser, Miller and the rest of that slop would be out-competed by better, smaller beer companies. Of course, us Americans can't ever have good taste in anything on a large scale, so I'll have to be content to hunt down decent breweries on a city by city basis.

That may be true in your mind. Your mind needs to come to Colorado.

/Pretty much any of the bigger cities will do.
//Except Trinidad. You can take that off the list.

Having just moved back to Colorado, this.

joyride75: This market won't be saturated until every neighborhood in Minneapolis had their own brewpub/brewery with attached tap room.

Or as we call it, Nordeast.

Dafatone: Having just moved back to Colorado, this.

*raises a Trinity Flo IPA on nitro*

downstairs: That_Dude: downstairs: That_Dude: While the big brewers are losing market share, that doesn't necessarily mean new start-ups are in a good position. There's already so much competition in the microbrew market (especially IPAs) that it may be hard for a new company to break in. The Big 3 may be losing business, but that business isn't necessarily going to a startup, The local microbrew of choice is probably sucking off most of that business.

I think it depends where you build your microbrewery. Some cities are saturated, others not so much. Up until recently there were very few here in New Orleans. Now 2-3 have sprouted up and are selling pretty well.

That's a fair point, but the reason why the cities with fewer microbreweries have fewer microbreweries is because it is harder to sell craft beers in those places. Also, nearby competitors who decide to move into those cities may have an advantage over start-ups. Still, I can't imagine there are that many microbreweries in the south, and the influx of northerners might change that.

New Orleans was unique because it had three big local breweries- Abita, Jax, Dixie.

Dixie moved out, Jax is gone, so Abita was the only one left.

Just in the past three years 3-4 new ones have sprouted up.

Of course New Orleans is not really a southern town, even though it happens to be placed there.

Sorry for the mistake, I really shouldn't have conflated New Orleans with the south. Not that I have anything against either New Orleans or the south, it's just that, as you say, they are different.

I have never feared the bubbles in my beer.

//off to a local taproom to fill the growlers for the weekend.

We just had a local distillery open up here.


Link (new window)

and yes we have local Breweries

Link (new window)

Off topic, but the world needs to know- they are now making Bass ale in the us. I was already going to discontinue it as Stone and New Belgium were outselling it 2 cases to 1 6 pack, but when I got a fresh case last week, I knew something was wrong.
The box was american cardboard and didnt say the country of origin of the product inside.
Sure enough, the bottle label says product of usa.
Sad, really.

Has there ever been a time when there was a bigger selection of very high quality reasonably priced beer? When I first turned 21 many years ago the beer aisle was almost an afterthought, maybe 12 feet or so of shelf space against the back wall while pallets and pallets of Miller and Bud filled up the floor in front of it. They'd pack things in so tightly you couldn't wheel a shopping cart between the shelves and the pallets. The only decent beers were imported, very expensive, and sold so rarely that there was a fine coating of dark grey dust on the bottle caps. Now they have separate aisles for imported and domestic beers, neatly arranged by the type of beer, often with special tags describing characteristics of the beer and awards the beer has won. You might find three or four different brands of the specific style of beer you're interested in where a couple of decades ago there'd be none. You don't even think you might be buying old skunky beer that's been sitting on the shelf for 5 years because you haven't had it happen in such a long time or you're too young and therefore fortunate enough to have never experienced it. We really do live in a golden age of beer, fellow Farkers and Farkettes, so raise your glass and thank former President Jimmy Carter for deregulating the beer industry way back in 1979. For were it not for that piece of legislation, quietly signed with no political credit given to the man who signed it, we'd all be drinking Bud Light tonight.

That_Dude: downstairs: That_Dude: While the big brewers are losing market share, that doesn't necessarily mean new start-ups are in a good position. There's already so much competition in the microbrew market (especially IPAs) that it may be hard for a new company to break in. The Big 3 may be losing business, but that business isn't necessarily going to a startup, The local microbrew of choice is probably sucking off most of that business.

I think it depends where you build your microbrewery. Some cities are saturated, others not so much. Up until recently there were very few here in New Orleans. Now 2-3 have sprouted up and are selling pretty well.

That's a fair point, but the reason why the cities with fewer microbreweries have fewer microbreweries is because it is harder to sell craft beers in those places. Also, nearby competitors who decide to move into those cities may have an advantage over start-ups. Still, I can't imagine there are that many microbreweries in the south, and the influx of northerners might change that.

In Texas the reason we don't have more is because InBev bought our legislature, and the distributors can't agree enought to work together and lobby a change.

Also, Microbreweries might be having a tough time, but there is always room for BrewPubs because they add an experience and freshness that you can't get in the market.

I thought bubbles in beer was a good thing. Who drinks flat beer?

I saw that movie:

"That ain't no beer bubble, boy. This HERE's a beer bubble"

Beerguy: Norv Turner: Well I gotta say that the IPA and darker larger markets are pretty much tapped, might as wells start getting into the hefeweizen and wheat beer market. I never see those as much as the others, especially in the microbreweries.

/Suck it haters, I love me some bavarian hefeweizen

Thank you for pointing out that Bavarian hefe is a style all its own.

[barleydine.files.wordpress.com image 336x524]

Who the heck decided to start putting citrus fruit on weissbiers anyway?
No bar I've been to in Germany has done that. Not to mention any self-respecting bartender wouldn't let the head spill over that much. The 500mL line is low enough you can top it off with a nice swirl of the bottle before the final pour.

Regardless, yes - it'd be nice to see more wheat beers over here. There was a nice one from a Muskoka Ontario brewery last summer, but I think it was only seasonal.

dholway: Caeldan: Who the heck decided to start putting citrus fruit on weissbiers anyway?
No bar I've been to in Germany has done that.


Ever have a Berliner Weisse in Germany? It's usually served with a fruit syrup mixed in.

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Now that's just weird!
I've mostly been either around Munich or down towards the Bodensee... so maybe it's a regional thing inside Bavaria (and Baden-Wurttemberg).

Will have to keep an eye out for this next time I'm over there.

You know if you tilt the mug when you fill it you'd have less bubbles

Tingle007: You know if you tilt the mug when you fill it you'd have less bubbles

When I was in Europe/Germany they seemed pretty anal about how much beer (or any beverage) you got. All of the glasses had fill lines and they filled them up to that line (the head didn't count). Getting a head on the beer (as in the pic) was intentional, and I guarantee those people weren't shorted (nor were they getting any "free" beer either0>

HellRaisingHoosier: [i234.photobucket.com image 200x140]
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[i234.photobucket.com image 200x140]
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Word.
3 Floyds is freaking amazing. Sun King pretty damn good too.

But don't forget about Barley Island, The Dirty Helen Brown Ale and Blind Tiger Pale Ale are very good.

Haven't tried any Brugge Brassier. That's in Broad Ripple, right?

dholway: Caeldan: Who the heck decided to start putting citrus fruit on weissbiers anyway?
No bar I've been to in Germany has done that.


Ever have a Berliner Weisse in Germany? It's usually served with a fruit syrup mixed in.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 400x346]

The grain bill for Berliner weisse may be pretty much the same as a hefeweizen, but otherwise the beers have little in common flavor-wise. Berliners are fermented with bacteria as opposed to yeast which gives them a very tart/sour taste, like a saison.

Putting fruit in your glass of beer is strictly verboten in Germany and is just a stupid American invention. The citric acid destroys the wonderful head of a wheat beer and it throws off the banana/clove aroma of the beer. There's no reason to do it if you actually enjoy the beer itself.

Admittedly late to the thread. I could be described as a beer enthusiast, snob, or geek, depending on your perspective. It's true craft beer in the United States has grown tremendously in recent years in terms of sales and in the number of breweries and beers out there. There are hard-to-find beers that sell with a steep markup on the grey market (new window).

That said, I also see a lot of craft beer inventory that never seems to move. For every Canadian Breakfast Stout or Dark Lord, there are many bottles of various pale ales, IPAs, porters, stouts, seasonals, etc. that languish on shelves. I don't know about other craft beer drinkers, but eventually I'm going to settle down and routinely buy my favorite beers in my favorite styles and cut back on trying new beers. With so many craft beers on the market, it takes a darn good beer and/or savvy market positioning to stand out. I wonder if the increased competition in the craft beer market will eventually lead to contraction as breweries struggle to find an audience. It's a growing niche market, but it's still a niche market.

In the meantime, I'll do what I can to support the industry!

Zeno-25: Putting fruit in your glass of beer is strictly verboten in Germany and is just a stupid American invention. The citric acid destroys the wonderful head of a wheat beer and it throws off the banana/clove aroma of the beer. There's no reason to do it if you actually enjoy the beer itself.

If it tastes good to me with fruit, fark the haters. I'mma drink a delicious beer and they will just have to sneer. To say that one thing tastes better than another is really stupid. Taste is a matter of opinion.

/Blue Moon and orange
//nom

The Shatner Incident: Zeno-25: Putting fruit in your glass of beer is strictly verboten in Germany and is just a stupid American invention. The citric acid destroys the wonderful head of a wheat beer and it throws off the banana/clove aroma of the beer. There's no reason to do it if you actually enjoy the beer itself.

If it tastes good to me with fruit, fark the haters. I'mma drink a delicious beer and they will just have to sneer. To say that one thing tastes better than another is really stupid. Taste is a matter of opinion.

/Blue Moon and orange
//nom

If you think Blue Moon is really good wheat beer, by all means go ahead and enjoy it with a slice of orange.

I'm drinking Coors Light with a shot of Peppermint Schnapps.

Beerguy: Caeldan: Beerguy: Norv Turner: Well I gotta say that the IPA and darker larger markets are pretty much tapped, might as wells start getting into the hefeweizen and wheat beer market. I never see those as much as the others, especially in the microbreweries.

/Suck it haters, I love me some bavarian hefeweizen

Thank you for pointing out that Bavarian hefe is a style all its own.

[barleydine.files.wordpress.com image 336x524]

Who the heck decided to start putting citrus fruit on weissbiers anyway?
No bar I've been to in Germany has done that. Not to mention any self-respecting bartender wouldn't let the head spill over that much. The 500mL line is low enough you can top it off with a nice swirl of the bottle before the final pour.

Regardless, yes - it'd be nice to see more wheat beers over here. There was a nice one from a Muskoka Ontario brewery last summer, but I think it was only seasonal.

For what it's worth, I arrived in Aschaffenburg Germany in 1987 and ordered my very first hefeweizen at a local bar. The beer was served with a slice of lemon floating on top. I do not remember the name of the beer, but I do remember that it is the one that made me into a beer nut.

As far as the overspill is concerned you are 100% correct, I just posted that particular pic because it looked delicious.



Berliner Weiße mit Schuß: traditional Berlin Weisse with fruit syrup added.

/I had my first in West Berlin in 1983: good spring/summer drink.

WTF Indeed: The market for start-ups are over unless you have the greatest beer formula ever and will take over the world with it. The MillerCoors, and Buds of the world will produce shiatty light beers. Yuengling will go national at some point, filling the demand for cheap, quality beer. And microbrews will still be around but will be too price restrictive for a national market. I often feel bad for states who can't get a case of real dark lager like Yuengling for cheaper than a case of Coors Light.

LoL

As a craft-brew fan in training....why aren't there more decent reds available in the open market?

WTF Indeed: The market for start-ups are over unless you have the greatest beer formula ever and will take over the world with it. The MillerCoors, and Buds of the world will produce shiatty light beers. Yuengling will go national at some point, filling the demand for cheap, quality beer. And microbrews will still be around but will be too price restrictive for a national market. I often feel bad for states who can't get a case of real dark lager like Yuengling for cheaper than a case of Coors Light.

Yuengling is a chick beer.

Nemo's Brother: Yuengling is a chick beer.

Ah look, the Beer Snob. In it's natural environment, the Beer Snob remains at his local bar drinking beers from the farthest reaches of the world. Proclaiming that only beer made by vestal virgins, deep in the mountains of some shadowy land shall ever cross his lips. No beer of lesser price shall ever be considered good enough to be ingested by the Beer Snob. The Beer Snob can also be found waiting patiently at his door, awaiting the FedEx Overnight from his treasured beer crafter.

WTF Indeed: Nemo's Brother: Yuengling is a chick beer.

Ah look, the Beer Snob. In it's natural environment, the Beer Snob remains at his local bar drinking beers from the farthest reaches of the world. Proclaiming that only beer made by vestal virgins, deep in the mountains of some shadowy land shall ever cross his lips. No beer of lesser price shall ever be considered good enough to be ingested by the Beer Snob. The Beer Snob can also be found waiting patiently at his door, awaiting the FedEx Overnight from his treasured beer crafter.

Most beer snobs I know, myself included, drink American beer and Belgian beer almost exclusively.