Maybe we shouldn't have been lent so much money. The banks were just enablers in a sad story of addiction.

B-B-But Ireland had the lowest Corporate tax rates of all Europe and had total pro-business policies - Didn't these "job creators" shove that money back into the system and make Ireland rich?

I remember a few years ago conservatives were all holding up Irelands low tax pro-business policies as a model for the US.

Actually, submittard, Irelands problems were that they socialized losses. The bank bondholders should have been the ones to lose everything, since they took the risk.

Corvus: B-B-But Ireland had the lowest Corporate tax rates of all Europe and had total pro-business policies - Didn't these "job creators" shove that money back into the system and make Ireland rich?

I remember a few years ago conservatives were all holding up Irelands low tax pro-business policies as a model for the US.

Yeah, I remember that too!

/Lurked in a lot of Freeper threads back in '03-'04.

lockers: The bank bondholders should have been the ones to lose everything, since they took the risk.

Taoiseach Enda Kenny told the World Economic Forum in Davos on Thursday that easy credit "spawned greed".


Easy credit rip-offs!
Good times!
Scratchin' and survivin'!
Good Times!
Hangin in a chow line
Good Times!
Ain't we lucky we got 'em?
Good Times!

/Well, they ARE the blacks of Europe . . .

lockers: Actually, submittard, Irelands problems were that they socialized losses. The bank bondholders should have been the ones to lose everything, since they took the risk.

Iceland did that. And they are doing fine now.

Look for Ireland to default right after Spain/Portugal does 'cause then no one will notice.

My Irish half seems to be perpetually drunk despite my not consuming alcohol in almost 18 years, so I'd say inebiation is a good reason for many of Ireland's problems.

lockers: The bank bondholders should have been the ones to lose everything, since they took the risk.

This. In fact, the whole idea of debt is that it carries risk. A lender should be weighing whatever profit they hope to reap from the interest against the chance of default. And if a country's debt-to-GDP ratio is around 100%, with no sign of a surplus in the near future, the odds of a default should be considered rather high. Of course, soverign debt isn't the same as consumer debt, but nonetheless the maxim of "one must always repay one's debts" is utter bunk.

If I sell heroin to addicts, am I to blame for drug-related social ills?
If I sell AK-47s to street gangs, am I to blame for the resultant use of those weapons?

So then. Banks cannot be blamed for just giving people what they wanted.

mcreadyblue: Iceland did that. And they are doing fine now.

If by "fine" you mean the people are saddled with an extremely high debt they had next to no say in creating and have been forced to undertake painful austerity measures.

ROBO-Jesus: mcreadyblue: Iceland did that. And they are doing fine now.

If by "fine" you mean the people are saddled with an extremely high debt they had next to no say in creating and have been forced to undertake painful austerity measures.

Iceland did not socialize their losses. The still took quite a hit in the aftermath, but they are already recovering since they did not saddle their government with unsustainable debt.

mcreadyblue: Iceland did that. And they are doing fine now.

Iceland's also not on the euro. That gave them a lot more flexibility to enact monetary policy.

ROBO-Jesus: but nonetheless the maxim of "one must always repay one's debts" is utter bunk.

And that is why the cycle of crashes will continue.
Pay your debts, you bums....

As a Mick, I resent this racist headline.

/hic

phenn: As a Mick, I resent this racist headline.

/hic

What? It could've implied that they were drunk on power! You're the racist for assuming it implied they were drunk on alcohol! :-)

lockers: ROBO-Jesus: mcreadyblue: Iceland did that. And they are doing fine now.

If by "fine" you mean the people are saddled with an extremely high debt they had next to no say in creating and have been forced to undertake painful austerity measures.

Iceland did not socialize their losses. The still took quite a hit in the aftermath, but they are already recovering since they did not saddle their government with unsustainable debt.

The citizens of the UK actually paid off the debts of Icelandic banks.

Suckers.

HighOnCraic: phenn: As a Mick, I resent this racist headline.

/hic

What? It could've implied that they were drunk on power! You're the racist for assuming it implied they were drunk on alcohol! :-)

Mrphmuphrmph!

Too much cheap credit caused boom followed by a bust?

Whoa there! That sounds like that stupid, has-to-be-wrong Austrian Business Cycle Theory!

Blathering Idjut: lockers: The bank bondholders should have been the ones to lose everything, since they took the risk.

Also, Spain's official unemployment figures in a country of 46 million say that 5.3 million people are unemployed.

I wonder how that works out percentage wise when you remove everyone too old to work, everyone too young to work, and everyone unable to work. Somewhere between 20 and 30 percent, probably.

lockers: ROBO-Jesus: mcreadyblue: Iceland did that. And they are doing fine now.

If by "fine" you mean the people are saddled with an extremely high debt they had next to no say in creating and have been forced to undertake painful austerity measures.

Iceland did not socialize their losses. The still took quite a hit in the aftermath, but they are already recovering since they did not saddle their government with unsustainable debt.

iceland's debt to gdp ratio rose from 28% in 2007 to 88% now.

before the crisis, it took 60 icelandic kronas to buy a dollar. now it takes 123. inflation is running at over 6% a year, more than double official forecasts. business bankruptcies rose by over 60% in 2011.

but yeah, Iceland is doing just fine!

lockers: Actually, submittard, Irelands problems were that they socialized losses. The bank bondholders should have been the ones to lose everything, since they took the risk.

THIS

BTW, the bondholders involved in Ireland were supposed to get a haircut, but Timothy Geithner, during Bush's third term the Obama Administration went over to Europe and made sure they didn't.

That's kinda why the Irish are going to be debt slaves for at least several generations.

/yay Yankee Slavers!
//you gonna get raped little Irish children
///welcome to the new Gilded Age

Corvus: B-B-But Ireland had the lowest Corporate tax rates of all Europe and had total pro-business policies - Didn't these "job creators" shove that money back into the system and make Ireland rich?

Sure they did, why do you think there was a massive property bubble?

I love the Sinn Fein politician's view that it's unfair on the Irish people to claim they were drunk on credit, because in reality it was more like crack.

I thought it was the socialism that did it. Isn't that what we're told?

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: Corvus: B-B-But Ireland had the lowest Corporate tax rates of all Europe and had total pro-business policies - Didn't these "job creators" shove that money back into the system and make Ireland rich?

Sure they did, why do you think there was a massive property bubble?

I love the Sinn Fein politician's view that it's unfair on the Irish people to claim they were drunk on credit, because in reality it was more like crack.

Personal debt of individuals /= the bailout money of the bondholders. That's different money.

Personal debt /= public debt

You call it a credit crisis....we call it a bar tab.....

The Repeated Meme: You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: Corvus: B-B-But Ireland had the lowest Corporate tax rates of all Europe and had total pro-business policies - Didn't these "job creators" shove that money back into the system and make Ireland rich?

Sure they did, why do you think there was a massive property bubble?

...

Personal debt of individuals /= the bailout money of the bondholders. That's different money.

Personal debt /= public debt

Yes, but you're the one bringing up the bailout, it doesn't really have much to do with the question of why the crash happened.

The policy of low corporate taxes helped attract businesses to Ireland; so there was a lot of cash looking to be invested and an increasing availability of credit. So yes, those "job-creators" did put money into the system (and create jobs). According to Wikipedia, at one point new residential housing construction was responsible for 7% of Ireland's GNP.

But it was a bubble, all that cash and credit pushed prices too high and led to an oversupply. So, no, it didn't make Ireland rich, instead the bubble burst; which was one of the factors leading to the crash and bailout.

Whether the bailout should have happened is a different question.

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: Corvus: B-B-But Ireland had the lowest Corporate tax rates of all Europe and had total pro-business policies - Didn't these "job creators" shove that money back into the system and make Ireland rich?

Sure they did, why do you think there was a massive property bubble?

I love the Sinn Fein politician's view that it's unfair on the Irish people to claim they were drunk on credit, because in reality it was more like crack.

Ye say that like it's a bad thing, mate!

Oh, wait, I read that wrong.