I got 'em all right except Poland. Never heard of it.

Wife-B-Gone: I like how the Poles said "yep, that's about right" to their own stereotypes.

My personal favourite confession being "Anti-Semitic? Us? No, we only hate Jews a little bit more than the rest of you hate them." That and the accompanying article stating a survey there in which more than half the respondents complained about an evil Jewish conspiracy to run the world.


/Aside - there isn't one. Trust me, I am 100% Jewish and if there was I would personally join up and be far too busy manipulating your foolish little lives for my own profit and pleasure to be wasting my time living on pot noodles, worrying where my next rent payment is coming from and talking bollocks on Fark.

I though Europeans were too socially advanced for this sort of petty nationalism?

what the hell is it with europeans and the weird obsession over lounge chairs? Do germans sneak out at midnight and reserve them or something?

Reminds me of the old joke: In heaven, the cooks are French, the Germans build the machines, the Swiss run the banks, everybody gets an Italian lover, and the police are English. In hell, the cooks are English, the French build the machines, the Italians run the banks, everybody gets a Swiss lover, and the police are German.

/Stereotypes might be outdated, but you get the idea.

The Dutch see everyone as strangely, not Dutch.
The Germans think they are superior to everyone in the World; particularly Greeks are sub-human in their view and they see the French as stylish, but dirty.
The French and Italian are horribly jealous of one another like two sorority girls.
The French think the Germans are poorly dressed, but highly efficient robots with no taste in anything except for cars.

I could go on and on. Obviously nearly all of them view Americans as pig ignorant yahoos and the English as drunken skanks.

well, that was farking lame, thanks subby!

These are the kinds of things that cross my mind when I consider a "United States of Europe" - they are, more or less, where the US was around the time of the Civil War - citizens were loyal to their own state (especially Virginians) way more than the idea of a country.

The US is more of a country now than a collection of states, regardless of what the original intent might have been - we may mock each other but we come together when the shiat hits the fan - I wonder if Europe will ever get there.

Fizpez: they are, more or less, where the US was around the time of the Civil War - citizens were loyal to their own state (especially Virginians) way more than the idea of a country.

lol. your american centrism is *adorable*.

aaaand youre like totally wrong.

and why should they "get there" and be one country? they dont want to be one country.

Actually, WWII started because the Europeans wouldn't listen to America right after WWI. Then they have the nerve, the audacity, the unmitigated *GALL* to complain about us showing up late for WWII.

If you had listened to us back in 1919, you wouldn't have had a problem 20 years later.

Father_Jack: and why should they "get there" and be one country? they dont want to be one country.

Not now that the south has sandbagged the Euro economy, they don't.

Gordon Bennett: Wife-B-Gone: I like how the Poles said "yep, that's about right" to their own stereotypes.

My personal favourite confession being "Anti-Semitic? Us? No, we only hate Jews a little bit more than the rest of you hate them." That and the accompanying article stating a survey there in which more than half the respondents complained about an evil Jewish conspiracy to run the world.


/Aside - there isn't one. Trust me, I am 100% Jewish and if there was I would personally join up and be far too busy manipulating your foolish little lives for my own profit and pleasure to be wasting my time living on pot noodles, worrying where my next rent payment is coming from and talking bollocks on Fark.

Get a job, Tzipi hippie

_{/Really, "pot noodles" is another name for ramen noodles? I hadn't heard that before..}

I'm going to use the phrase "macho night birds" as much as possible in the coming weeks.

Father_Jack: Fizpez: they are, more or less, where the US was around the time of the Civil War - citizens were loyal to their own state (especially Virginians) way more than the idea of a country.

lol. your american centrism is *adorable*.

aaaand youre like totally wrong.

and why should they "get there" and be one country? they dont want to be one country.

I don't give a rats ass if they "get there" or not - it's an idea that some politicans of Europe seem to push for every now and again - which is quickly dismissed by the next set of politicians. There was a series of articles earlier this week pertaining to a stronger European supreme court with oversight capability for budgets - sure sounds a lot more like a single central power to me.

As for being "wrong" - care to elaborate?

Fizpez: These are the kinds of things that cross my mind when I consider a "United States of Europe" - they are, more or less, where the US was around the time of the Civil War - citizens were loyal to their own state (especially Virginians) way more than the idea of a country.

The US is more of a country now than a collection of states, regardless of what the original intent might have been - we may mock each other but we come together when the shiat hits the fan - I wonder if Europe will ever get there.

The differences between people from, say, Massachusetts and Alabama are nothing compared to the differences between people from, say, Germany and Greece. It's not comparable. They know that. They do not aspire to emulate the model of the United States.

At least that's what my German friend tells me.

WWII started due to the punitive measures the allies imposed on Germany after WWI, which lead to the collapse of the economy and the rise of the Nazi party.

WWI happened because a bloke called Archie Duke shot an ostrich 'cause he was hungry.

You know who else liked to have too honest opinions of his fellow europeans?

pute kisses like a man: are there any ethnically singular areas in america?

Broadly speaking, yes. There is a joke here in Hagersown MD that you really aren't from here unless your surname ends in "baugh" or "berger".

Jerkwater: Fizpez: These are the kinds of things that cross my mind when I consider a "United States of Europe" - they are, more or less, where the US was around the time of the Civil War - citizens were loyal to their own state (especially Virginians) way more than the idea of a country.

The US is more of a country now than a collection of states, regardless of what the original intent might have been - we may mock each other but we come together when the shiat hits the fan - I wonder if Europe will ever get there.

The differences between people from, say, Massachusetts and Alabama are nothing compared to the differences between people from, say, Germany and Greece. It's not comparable. They know that. They do not aspire to emulate the model of the United States.

At least that's what my German friend tells me.

I agree completely - it's very likely you wouldnt have to look very hard to find someone what lived in a different state at some point in their life or, at the very least, had parents that did.

My point, not well made I guess, was not that they SHOULD emulate the United States but that it might be, culturally speaking, impossible to emulate.

didnt mention the best parts of europe.. Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark

fireclown: what the hell is it with europeans and the weird obsession over lounge chairs? Do germans sneak out at midnight and reserve them or something?

Yes, and the fat German businessmen pretend that they're acrobats, forming pyramids and frightening the children, barging into the queues...

Gordon Bennett: Wife-B-Gone: I like how the Poles said "yep, that's about right" to their own stereotypes.

My personal favourite confession being "Anti-Semitic? Us? No, we only hate Jews a little bit more than the rest of you hate them." That and the accompanying article stating a survey there in which more than half the respondents complained about an evil Jewish conspiracy to run the world.


/Aside - there isn't one. Trust me, I am 100% Jewish and if there was I would personally join up and be far too busy manipulating your foolish little lives for my own profit and pleasure to be wasting my time living on pot noodles, worrying where my next rent payment is coming from and talking bollocks on Fark.

You have pot noodles? Luxury. We used to dream of pot noodles. What we had was some twigs and if we where lucky, maybe a bit of bark for dessert. Pot noodles, ha!

WWII started due to the punitive measures the allies imposed on Germany after WWI, which lead to the collapse of the economy and the rise of the Nazi party.

WWI happened because a bloke called Archie Duke shot an ostrich 'cause he was hungry.


I LOL'd, but I agree as well. I find it interesting how history points to the WW1 Germans as essentially being evil pre-Nazis, when their society was one of the more tolerant, open, and prosperous of the day. There was less anti-semitism in WW1-era Germany than in much of Europe (or America, for that matter), and many Jews held high ranking positions throughout their military.

The Germans got blamed for all of the bad things that WW1 caused, and as a result lost their collective feeling of worth and prostrated at the feet of a maniac who promised a return to the glory days, if they would only sign away their souls. If the allied powers had been a little less patriotic and vindictive in 1919, it's arguable that WW2 either wouldn't have ever happened, or would have been substantially different.

pute kisses like a man: while, here, which cities are older than 200 years? how many families have staying in one place that long?

My grandmother would be happy to take you to the cemetaries on Cape Cod and walk you back through her family a couple of hundred years.

Of course she lives in New Hampshire now and her grandchildren are all in Texas and California.

Fizpez: Father_Jack: Fizpez: they are, more or less, where the US was around the time of the Civil War - citizens were loyal to their own state (especially Virginians) way more than the idea of a country.

(snip)

As for being "wrong" - care to elaborate?

Comparing mid 19th century US internal politics and the run up the civil war to contemporary european politics, and trying to compare states rights sentiment in an american context to western european international politics is such a ridiculous comparision it just doesnt even deserve explanation. how could you even think theyre the same on any sort of meaningful level? internal vs international relations, the differnce between states rights within the US, and independent nations trying to figure out how to come together into supranational organizations.... these just arent the same things at all.

europe doesnt want to be one nation nor should it. its too many histories cultures and languages. it can never be one nation. nor could it become a single nation state.

the problems europes facing currently in its financial arena with the common currency should be kept seperate from the idea of political unity and a "european" future for european.s the European Union has been a fantastic success: right of movement for its citizens within the EU, common trade without tarrifs, right to live in any european union country for any member, common "bill of rights" for citizens of the EU, connecting courts and police and other agencies... these things are all great. and work. It created a great common market and its been a great facilitator of trade.

what DOESNT work is when you tie their economies together with a common currency.

european political union makes sense. European monetary union doesnt.

you could tie, say, the germans dutch french belgians together in a common currency, sure. But theres no sense at all in tying these solid, honest, relatively similarly functioning economies with similar values on taxation, role of govt, similarly educated work forces, similarly structured economies to countries like.... greece? with its poor institutional quality, legacy of corruption, non transparent governmental institutions etc... its highly questionable as well to do so with a country like italy which has a relatively speaking developed economy, but to borderline developing countries like greece or the others in the balkans (which admittedly has not been done) its foolishness.

its sacrificing good economics on the altar of political vision; a triumph of self-delusional political solidarity over economic reality.

EU? fantastic idea. more please.
Euro? no thanks.

Tyrone Slothrop: WWII started due to the punitive measures the allies imposed on Germany after WWI, which lead to the collapse of the economy and the rise of the Nazi party.

WWI happened because a bloke called Archie Duke shot an ostrich 'cause he was hungry.

Well, possibly. But the reason for the whole thing was that it was too much effort NOT to have a war.
You see, there was a tiny flaw in the plan. It was bollocks.

/Got all of them right!

fireclown: what the hell is it with europeans and the weird obsession over lounge chairs? Do germans sneak out at midnight and reserve them or something?

That's the stereotype - at least here in Holland. They get up super-early, put their towels on a lounge chair, then go get breakfast. And they still have your grandfather's bicycle.

Last year, Amsterdam became over 50% allochtoon, meaning at least one of your parents was not born in the Netherlands.

If Wilson had continued to keep the U.S, out of war (despite the casus belli of unrestricted submarine warfare and the Zimmermann telegram), WWI might really have been the war to end wars. Perhaps Europe would have been exhausted by the whole war thing by the start of the 1920's, and a peace treaty without the French demanding the equivalent of 100,000 tons of gold would have been signed.

Or maybe we would have merely saved 117,000 American lives, and kept another 200,000 in one piece. It's all good.

/American entry into WWI was clearly justified, but with the benefit of hindsight I think it would have been smarter for the United States to sit that one out, unless the Germans tried something even more stupid, like invading Manhattan..

Fizpez: These are the kinds of things that cross my mind when I consider a "United States of Europe" - they are, more or less, where the US was around the time of the Civil War - citizens were loyal to their own state (especially Virginians) way more than the idea of a country.

The US is more of a country now than a collection of states, regardless of what the original intent might have been - we may mock each other but we come together when the shiat hits the fan - I wonder if Europe will ever get there.

No. Europe is absolutely nothing like the U.S. was around the time of the Civil War. There is no, nor will there ever be, any "United States of Europe".

Father_Jack:
european political union makes sense. European monetary union doesnt.

you could tie, say, the germans dutch french belgians together in a common currency, sure. But theres no sense at all in tying these solid, honest, relatively similarly functioning economies with similar values on taxation, role ...

Well, although it did take a while for the US to get a single national currency, the economies of the various states were very different at the time, so I don't think that rules out the workability of monetary union. I think the main mistake is that we've got a single currency (and all the Eurozone countries were on a single virtual currency for quite a few years before the cash was unified) but not a centralized monetary policy. Add to that all the corruption in Greece and it's a recipe for failure.

I sure do love not having to hang onto francs and marks and whatnot, though.

why do americants always wanna united statesify every region of the world?
and you wonder why the world doesnt like americants

ontariolightning: didnt mention the best parts of europe.. Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark

So your saying that the descendants of my ancestors are teh awesome? I can live with that.

//bumps Scandinavia up a couple notches on the travel list.

ontariolightning: why do americants always wanna united statesify every region of the world?
and you wonder why the world doesnt like americants

Easy, there, nuck.

It's because the federated US model, especially pre-Civil War, is the closest thing to compare the current state and direction of Europe.

dersk: ontariolightning: why do americants always wanna united statesify every region of the world?
and you wonder why the world doesnt like americants

Easy, there, nuck.

It's because the federated US model, especially pre-Civil War, is the closest thing to compare the current state and direction of Europe.

Europe is a whole continent, US is not a continent .. see the difference

World War II was America's fault. Enterting WW I was idiocy. The Prussians were not the Nazis. They would have split western France and things would have ended there.

ontariolightning: dersk: ontariolightning: why do americants always wanna united statesify every region of the world?
and you wonder why the world doesnt like americants

Easy, there, nuck.

It's because the federated US model, especially pre-Civil War, is the closest thing to compare the current state and direction of Europe.

Europe is a whole continent, US is not a continent .. see the difference

Not really, since the EU doesn't cover all of Europe and most modern geographers talk about Eurasia, since the Urals are an artificial border. At any rate, how would that possibly have any effect on how good a comparison the two models are? Your comment seems completely irrelevant to me.

whos talking about the EU? if you seriously think euros will accept what Merkel & Sarkozy want you do not understand europe, euros would revolt

ontariolightning: didnt mention the best parts of europe.. Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark

Well, if you're a white woman and like flirting with fascism, sure.





/half-danish

ontariolightning: whos talking about the EU? if you seriously think euros will accept what Merkel & Sarkozy want you do not understand europe, euros would revolt

Have you spent the last 18 years living in Europe?

And, if I wasn't clear, I'm not saying that Europe should follow the model of the US - I'm saying that the US makes the best model for comparison and what ifs.
And the entire discussion thread has been in the context of the current EU monetary crisis - have you not been paying attention?

dersk: ontariolightning: whos talking about the EU? if you seriously think euros will accept what Merkel & Sarkozy want you do not understand europe, euros would revolt

Have you spent the last 18 years living in Europe?

And, if I wasn't clear, I'm not saying that Europe should follow the model of the US - I'm saying that the US makes the best model for comparison and what ifs.
And the entire discussion thread has been in the context of the current EU monetary crisis - have you not been paying attention?

has it? i just see a bunch of stuff about world war 1 & 2..

Euro countries also have more history than the US did before they became a country.. Euros also have vastly different cultures... it would never work to become like the US

Snarfangel: /Really, "pot noodles" is another name for ramen noodles? I hadn't heard that before.

It's a specific brand of particularly nasty British ramen that comes in its own cup, and in true honesty not one I would recommend. I do actually eat a fair amount of ramen though, but will usually plump for the packets imported from Korea or Japan in a noodle bowl that I bought in the Japan Centre. Better quality. Oddly the only non-Asian ones I've had that were at all nice were Polish.

I don't know why I felt the need to share that, but if we all were to ask such questions Fark would be nothing more than a list of uncommented links.

fireclown: what the hell is it with europeans and the weird obsession over lounge chairs? Do germans sneak out at midnight and reserve them or something?

It's a stereotype that isn't necessarily entirely false. German tourists have a reputation for waking up very early in the morning to reserve a chaise longue at the beach by covering it with a towel, then going back to sleep for a few more hours. We, on the other hand, are known for waking up and going to the beach only to discover every chair covered with German towels. Which we will either respect or fling onto the sand with a xenophobic comment about two word wars and one world cup. Unless we're Scottish or Welsh in which case it's just the two wars.

Snarfangel: American entry into WWI was clearly justified, but with the benefit of hindsight I think it would have been smarter for the United States to sit that one out, unless the Germans tried something even more stupid, like invading Manhattan..

I could see it as being inevitable given that at the time the Americans were beginning to emulate the European model of global conquest and colony-building. It was around that time when they colonised Hawaii and other Pacific islands, built a colony in China, sent their militaty into Latin America to set up friendly governments and overthrow hostile ones, and less than twenty years since they started a war with Spain in order to grab some land from that particular fading power.

In hindsight those wars were very very good for the Yanks. They built their industry to unprecedented heights, unified the nation, strengthened their economy and managed to get through it all without having any cities bombed flat. Granted, sending inexperienced soldiers out to fight Germans who had been fighting in the trenches and in aerial combat for a couple of years and knew better how to survive wasn't the brightest of ideas.

Typical of America to try to sit out of world wars that matter but fight the meaningless ones with pissant countries

seriously anyone who thinks euros are going to once again be forced into being dominated by the Germans are batshiat crazy

ontariolightning: seriously anyone who thinks euros are going to once again be forced into being dominated by the Germans are batshiat crazy

You're a crappy troll or a minor idiot. Either way your Internet personality sweats mediocrity.

YixilTesiphon: ontariolightning: seriously anyone who thinks euros are going to once again be forced into being dominated by the Germans are batshiat crazy

You're a crappy troll or a minor idiot. Either way your Internet personality sweats mediocrity.

you're not a Tesiphon, you're more like a very annoying Jar Jar Binks