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(Washington Post)   Obama proposes all states require students to stay in school until they are 18. Alabama immediately objects, fears overcrowding of 5th and 6th grades   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 238
    More: Unlikely, obama, sixth grade, State of the Union, student achievement, objects  
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4047 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jan 2012 at 10:50 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-27 09:53:19 AM
This is a good idea if and only if you have some kind of internship or co-op program where your students who are, um, "not college material" can learn a useful trade while receiving credit towards graduation. Make sure they can read, write (enough for a coherent business letter), do basic math, use Word/Excel-type software, and understand civics well enough to explain the basics of government. If that's going to be the end of their formal education, that's plenty, and left over time should be spent making sure the kid has options beyond flipping burgers.

Have a class where you learn to do basic and intermediate home/yard/automotive projects. Have a real "Home Economics" class where cooking is a small focus, but so is how a mortgage works, how credit reports work, how to file their taxes, and how to make a useful household budget.

Even if they only remember half of the above, it will save them tens of thousands of dollars over their lifetime, and qualify them for basic 'real jobs'.

Right now, we graduate tons of students who are neither ready for college, nor the outside world.
 
2012-01-27 10:25:11 AM
When people are educated, the GOP base shrinks. We can't have that.
 
2012-01-27 10:52:42 AM
I really like this idea. Personally, when it comes to school I feel that No Child should be Left Behind.
 
2012-01-27 10:52:43 AM

djkutch: When people are educated, the GOP base shrinks. We can't have that.


They call it "indoctrination"

When you consider knowledge indoctrination because it means people leave your party, maybe you need to examine your priorities.
 
2012-01-27 10:53:54 AM
No better learning environment than rooms overfilled with 17 year old kids that really don't want to be there, right?
 
2012-01-27 10:53:55 AM
Why would Alabama object? Now they have more time to teach creationism.
 
2012-01-27 10:54:09 AM
Require them to stay in school is a start.....but getting teachers to do their job - now that's a horse Union of another color.
 
2012-01-27 10:54:55 AM
fark that. Leave it to the kids who want to be there.
 
2012-01-27 10:54:57 AM

chimp_ninja: Have a class where you learn to do basic and intermediate home/yard/automotive projects. Have a real "Home Economics" class where cooking is a small focus, but so is how a mortgage works, how credit reports work, how to file their taxes, and how to make a useful household budget.

Even if they only remember half of the above, it will save them tens of thousands of dollars over their lifetime, and qualify them for basic 'real jobs'.


We should do all that already anyways.
 
2012-01-27 10:55:24 AM
People need to calm down. Obama just wants to bring order and harmony to 57 different regulatory structures. Just like he wants to esnure the continued smooth operation of the intercontinental railroad connecting them to Asia by terminating in Hawaii, which will of course require protection from the US Marine Corpse.
 
2012-01-27 10:55:44 AM
CPennypacker

djkutch: When people are educated, the GOP base shrinks. We can't have that.

They call it "indoctrination"

When you consider knowledge indoctrination because it means people leave your party, maybe you need to examine your priorities.


Are you talking about liberals or conservatives?
 
2012-01-27 10:56:42 AM

djkutch: When people are educated, the GOP base shrinks. We can't have that.


But maybe more people will be able to figure out how and when to cast a vote.
 
2012-01-27 10:57:11 AM

heinekenftw: chimp_ninja: Have a class where you learn to do basic and intermediate home/yard/automotive projects. Have a real "Home Economics" class where cooking is a small focus, but so is how a mortgage works, how credit reports work, how to file their taxes, and how to make a useful household budget.

Even if they only remember half of the above, it will save them tens of thousands of dollars over their lifetime, and qualify them for basic 'real jobs'.

We should do all that already anyways.


I thought we did. At least around here kids are classed for a "Career Prep" track and sent off to the vo-tech for half the day to learn to fix cars or some other skilled trade. Their math classes and the like are structured to cover the kinds of math they'll be using (mortgage, check book balancing, etc). Plus everyone gets a cooking class.
 
2012-01-27 10:57:22 AM
What chimp_ninja said is all that is needed on this subject.
 
2012-01-27 10:57:36 AM

chimp_ninja: Right now, we graduate tons of students who are neither ready for college, nor the outside world.


The trades have the additional advantage of being difficult to outsource.

Mike Rowe for President. Link (new window)
 
2012-01-27 10:57:40 AM

derpdeederp: CPennypacker

djkutch: When people are educated, the GOP base shrinks. We can't have that.

They call it "indoctrination"

When you consider knowledge indoctrination because it means people leave your party, maybe you need to examine your priorities.

Are you talking about liberals or conservatives?


Only one group sneers at 'intellectuals', you know. Can you guess which group?
 
2012-01-27 10:57:41 AM
Easy solution. If you drop out of high school, you become ineligible for any Federal or State social welfare programs. If you go back and complete your GED, then you can become eligible.
 
2012-01-27 10:58:02 AM
As someone who has moved to Alabama but lived here long enough to soak up enough of the local culture, I can vouch for the accuracy of the headline. If it weren't for the ability for students to drop out, we wouldn't have such an excellent class sizes in our high schools and we wouldn't have such inexpensive contractors to keep the cost of living low.
 
2012-01-27 10:58:22 AM

djkutch: When people are educated, the GOP base shrinks. We can't have that.


I don't think their base has the ability to benefit from education, no matter how long you force it on them.
 
2012-01-27 10:58:54 AM
Oh shiat, I actually thought this was already true for all 50 states. That's actually sad.

chimp_ninja: This is a good idea if and only if you have some kind of internship or co-op program where your students who are, um, "not college material" can learn a useful trade while receiving credit towards graduation.



It wasn't clear from your post if you knew but just to tack on, there are public high schools that do this sort of thing already for this exact reason. Where you have to take your math and English requirements (you can even take those online) while you get your cosmetology license for high school credit.

I have no idea how wide spread programs like this are but I agree they should be pretty universal.

chimp_ninja: Have a class where you learn to do basic and intermediate home/yard/automotive projects. Have a real "Home Economics" class where cooking is a small focus, but so is how a mortgage works, how credit reports work, how to file their taxes, and how to make a useful household budget.



I've got a graduate degree and I would have loved to have had classes like that in high school. Hell, I'd love to take some of those now.
 
2012-01-27 10:59:02 AM
Yay! So instead of the deadbeat losers dropping out, the rest of the students will have to put up with having them around for years and years? That's just what high schools need, more stupid/fat kids unable to pull their weight but forced to be a drag on classrooms day after day after day.

What idiot thought up this ingenious plan?
 
2012-01-27 10:59:19 AM

derpdeederp: CPennypacker

djkutch: When people are educated, the GOP base shrinks. We can't have that.

They call it "indoctrination"

When you consider knowledge indoctrination because it means people leave your party, maybe you need to examine your priorities.

Are you talking about liberals or conservatives?


I'm talking about conservatives. Is that a trick question?
 
2012-01-27 10:59:35 AM
So the gifted childeren are going to be held back?
 
2012-01-27 11:00:49 AM

Wasilla Hillbilly: fark that. Leave it to the kids who want to be there.


THIS.

If you're going to act like a retard about education, you need to suffer the consequences of doing so. It's the ultimate educational experience.

/no, I will not sacrifice my childrens' education for the ones' you failed to parent and your friends' cushy teacher union jobs
 
2012-01-27 11:00:51 AM

Wasilla Hillbilly: fark that. Leave it to the kids who want to be there.


Ding ding ding.

The winner is You.
 
2012-01-27 11:00:53 AM
I think it's the wrong way to attack the problem. Schools in poor areas need more funding (along with meal programs and after school programs), standards across the board need to be tougher, class sizes need to be smaller, and teachers need to actually have some authority in their classrooms.

After that, college needs to be less expenisive and have tougher standards.
 
2012-01-27 11:01:06 AM

beta_plus: People need to calm down. Obama just wants to bring order and harmony to 57 different regulatory structures. Just like he wants to esnure the continued smooth operation of the intercontinental railroad connecting them to Asia by terminating in Hawaii, which will of course require protection from the US Marine Corpse.


Do the teleprompter joke next!
 
2012-01-27 11:01:07 AM

CPennypacker: djkutch: When people are educated, the GOP base shrinks. We can't have that.

They call it "indoctrination"

When you consider knowledge indoctrination because it means people leave your party, maybe you need to examine your priorities.



Umm obviously you've never had OVER A MILLION $ IN THE BANK.
 
2012-01-27 11:01:17 AM
When I was in 7th grade in Illinois, we had a 17 yr old in the class. He sat in the back cracking his knuckles and muttering, "one more year".
 
2012-01-27 11:01:43 AM

chimp_ninja: Make sure they can read, write (enough for a coherent business letter), do basic math, use Word/Excel-type software, and understand civics well enough to explain the basics of government.


Are you saying a high school diploma doesn't accomplish these things?

Oh, and, obligatory:
i41.tinypic.com
 
2012-01-27 11:01:44 AM

chimp_ninja: Have a class where you learn to do basic and intermediate home/yard/automotive projects. Have a real "Home Economics" class where cooking is a small focus, but so is how a mortgage works, how credit reports work, how to file their taxes, and how to make a useful household budget.


What I'd like to see is a 'detecting bullshiat' class. They're shown news media, advertising, credit card offers, and official reports from think tanks while being taught about spin and how to smell out bullshiat.
 
2012-01-27 11:02:04 AM
I just cannot agree with the President on this one. We have to accept that there are some kids, who are just stick-dumb. They should not have to stay in a traditional school, if they can't hack it. When I was in high school in the 70's, kids who just couldn't handle the college prep curriculum were voluntarily transferred the the vocational school,, where they would at least learn a trade. If they couldn't handle that, there usually dropped out. This prevented the waste of taxpayer's money.
 
2012-01-27 11:02:13 AM
Forget Alabama, California has one of the highest dropout rates yet spends the most money on education.

How does that happen?
 
2012-01-27 11:02:41 AM

Gunderson: Easy solution. If you drop out of high school, you become ineligible for any Federal or State social welfare programs. If you go back and complete your GED, then you can become eligible.


Do you take Paypal for your newsletter subscription?
 
2012-01-27 11:02:42 AM

chimp_ninja: This is a good idea if and only if you have some kind of internship or co-op program where your students who are, um, "not college material" can learn a useful trade while receiving credit towards graduation.


This. My high school (which was public) had a program for these kids where for their junior and senior year, they could spend half the day at a vocational/technical school. Even then I was amazed at what the options were. Carpentry, electrician training, etc. When they graduated, they had a huge leg up on the competition.
 
2012-01-27 11:03:36 AM
natazha

When I was in 7th grade in Illinois, we had a 17 yr old in the class. He sat in the back cracking his knuckles and muttering, "one more year".



Let me guess: You taught him long division and he thought you how to breath through your nose?
 
2012-01-27 11:04:00 AM

djkutch: When people are educated brainwashed, the GOP base shrinks. We can't have that.

 
2012-01-27 11:04:04 AM
Yeah, because what we really need are schools burning resources on would-be drop outs who are sure to abstain from disrupting the students who still have a chance.
 
2012-01-27 11:04:13 AM
I assume Obama is going to raise federal taxes to help the already cash-strapped states make up the difference in the increased state education budgets? Oh, you mean he's just going to add more to our already astronomical deficit? Ok, nothing new to see here.
 
2012-01-27 11:04:57 AM
I don't agree with Obama on this one. Education should be available to those who want it, you can't help those who don't.
 
2012-01-27 11:05:11 AM
You know nobody's trying to get rid of vo-tech programs, right? You just can't drop out and do nothing before 18 - you can still go to vo-tech.

And you farking idiots going on about how we need to allow this are unbelievably stupid. Society benefits from better educated children, period. Even the dumbest ones can go to vo-tech and learn to turn a wrench or something - letting them drop out totally is a drag on all of us.
 
2012-01-27 11:06:09 AM

KimNorth: djkutch: When people that are educated brainwashed: the GOP base shrinks. We can't have that.

 
2012-01-27 11:06:37 AM
KimNorth

Forget Alabama, California has one of the highest dropout rates yet spends the most money on education.

How does that happen?

you tell me.....
conservativesoul.us
 
2012-01-27 11:07:15 AM

sprawl15: chimp_ninja: Have a class where you learn to do basic and intermediate home/yard/automotive projects. Have a real "Home Economics" class where cooking is a small focus, but so is how a mortgage works, how credit reports work, how to file their taxes, and how to make a useful household budget.

What I'd like to see is a 'detecting bullshiat' class. They're shown news media, advertising, credit card offers, and official reports from think tanks while being taught about spin and how to smell out bullshiat.


I teach that class at the college level. I gave it a different name though.
 
2012-01-27 11:07:52 AM

Gunderson: Easy solution. If you drop out of high school, you become ineligible for any Federal or State social welfare programs. If you go back and complete your GED, then you can become eligible.


Why?
 
2012-01-27 11:08:44 AM
How do you exactly enforce that anyway? Fine, someone won't drop out, but they just won't show up. What do you do? fine them? Arrest them?
 
2012-01-27 11:08:54 AM

Orgasmatron138: and teachers need to actually have some authority in their classrooms.


WHAT?

And allow that teacher to say mean things about my darling little angel?

Are you out of your mind?
 
2012-01-27 11:09:01 AM

beta_plus: People need to calm down. Obama just wants to bring order and harmony to 57 different regulatory structures.


Is 57 states the new Godwin?
 
2012-01-27 11:09:50 AM
And what if the child is a dropout? Do you fine him for being a dropout? he obviously doesn't make that much money. do you throw him in jail? that seems counterproductive. Do you fine or imprison the parents?

None of this benefits the child at all. Kids need to go to school and get educated and get ready for life but this smacks of the kind of thing where the cure could be much worse than the disease.
 
2012-01-27 11:09:58 AM
If you're in high school and fail a test, teachers should staple a McDonald's application to it when they hand it back to students.

That's way easier than making it a law to stay in school until you're 18.
 
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