FARK.com: (6905484) Ubuntu to use HUD instead of menus. Still no cure for Unity

		Ubuntu to use HUD instead of menus. Still no cure for Unity (zdnet.com)		62
		More: Fail, ubuntu, limping, command lines, voice command, gnome, chickens, Lawrence Taylor, gnu

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3491 clicks; posted to Geek » on 27 Jan 2012 at 9:33 AM | Favorite | share:

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dittybopper

2012-01-27 09:38:50 AM

Could be worse. Could be on the menu for C.H.U.D.s.

jonny_q

2012-01-27 09:42:43 AM

I think Canonical is actively trying to get people to stop using Ubuntu and has been for almost 2 years.

Meh. People are flocking to Mint anyway. In less than a year Mint probably won't even be based on Ubuntu anymore anyway.

/I'll stick with Kubuntu, most likely, so I'll still be in the family.

Cooper420

2012-01-27 09:45:17 AM

Unity!

bhcompy

2012-01-27 09:47:36 AM

Unity is awful. All it did was unify the userbase in moving to other distros

pkellmey

2012-01-27 09:53:16 AM

bhcompy: Unity is awful. All it did was unify the userbase in moving to other distros

It certainly pushed me away. I'm still trying Mint, so I don't know if I'll try going back or not.

way south

2012-01-27 09:58:00 AM

I was too busy computing to care about either.

The Voice of Doom

2012-01-27 10:00:33 AM

Considering how people who aren't [still|already] using a command line tend to freeze in terror as soon as you ask them to type something, this is probably the best way to turn away everybody.

Broom

2012-01-27 10:03:30 AM

What amazes me in interface development is that so few get it.

We want what we want. Each of us. Some of are strictly keyboard-entry types; they do everything from the command line. Others are mouse-click-addicts; I've known people who swear clicking Copy under the Edit menu is quicker than hitting Ctrl+C.

Give us farking options, designers. If you only provide one path to command "X", fark YOU. If you change an intuitive and well-known key combination (Word circa 2003 and Windows 7), fark YOU. If you force a new interface on us, without even a handy overlay for upgraders (Unity), fark YOU.

padraig

2012-01-27 10:03:35 AM

One thing that I liked about Ubuntu, is that it runs fine on my 3-yo laptop. But I'm still on a pre-unity version.
I'd like to try the Mint distro because Hey, new thing!, and I'm still a geek at heart. But my main concern is a PC that works really well.
Is it worth it ?
(Toshiba Satelliis, with a dual-core centrino, I think, and 2gb or RAM).

Marine1

2012-01-27 10:09:22 AM

OpenSUSE with KDE 4. That is all.

/IMO, Windows Explorer/Desktop is still king in the UI department.

PushF12

2012-01-27 10:09:31 AM

Canonical is panicking and scrambling for revenue.

Redhat spanked them in the enterprise space. Landscape never got traction, and corporations don't tolerate pants-on-head mistakes like PulseAudio, MetaTracker, and Unity.

They botched the consumer space too. They couldn't ship a photo editor or multimedia player that worked, were douches about the small amount of music referral money, and every alternative to Ubuntu One was better. (Dropbox, iCloud, etc.)

And who will put Ubuntu into a TV when the Android solution is better in every way?

Marine1

2012-01-27 10:13:28 AM

PushF12: Canonical is panicking and scrambling for revenue.

Landscape never got traction, and corporations don't tolerate ~~pants-on-head mistakes like PulseAudio, MetaTracker, and Unity.~~ Linux in general for desktop use.

FTFY

MusicMakeMyHeadPound

2012-01-27 10:13:43 AM

On a lark I've been using the Unity interface for the past year.

It's not terrible. It's not great either. Its sin seems to be that it forces people used to a different style to learn something new while offering little more than slightly more desktop space.

I'm in favor of experimentation so I tend to be forgiving. This HUD idea looks fun.

Marine1

2012-01-27 10:16:03 AM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: On a lark I've been using the Unity interface for the past year.

It's not terrible. It's not great either. Its sin seems to be that it forces people used to a different style to learn something new while offering little more than slightly more desktop space.

I'm in favor of experimentation so I tend to be forgiving. This HUD idea looks fun.

Making people learn something new is the folly of nerds.

WhackingDay

2012-01-27 10:22:32 AM

Marine1:

Making people learn something new is the folly of nerds.

That's it exactly. There seems to be a philosophy with some developers that because they think this is all cool and fun that everyone else will. It's simply not the case. I cannot see a near future where people are talking to their computers. I know that sci-fi teaches us that this is the future, it's still a long way off.

As a librarian, let me tell you, I'm frickin' tired of "search". Tired. It's now old tech. The days where fuzzy matching and read-ahead searches were cool and snazzy are gone. Having to "search" for Terminal is stupid. Having to type "Firefox" to launch a browser is stupid. Maybe mouse/pointer UIs aren't all that interesting either, but it's better than what they're trying to do.

Doktor_Zhivago

2012-01-27 10:23:04 AM

I like Unity.

/hides face in shame

MusicMakeMyHeadPound

2012-01-27 10:28:10 AM

Marine1: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: On a lark I've been using the Unity interface for the past year.

It's not terrible. It's not great either. Its sin seems to be that it forces people used to a different style to learn something new while offering little more than slightly more desktop space.

I'm in favor of experimentation so I tend to be forgiving. This HUD idea looks fun.

Making people learn something new is the folly of nerds.

Such is the price of progress, I'm afraid.

I'm not one of those "year of the Linux desktop" nuts. If you don't like an idea you're free to move to another style (heck, switching desktop managers in Ubuntu takes about 15 minutes to set up, most of which is downloading time)

Or if you're really lazy, just buy Windows or a Mac.

As Larry Wall likes to say, "There is more than one way to do it."

Or perhaps Bill Waterson via his character Calvin: "Let's go exploring!"

MightyPez

2012-01-27 10:30:52 AM

padraig: One thing that I liked about Ubuntu, is that it runs fine on my 3-yo laptop. But I'm still on a pre-unity version.
I'd like to try the Mint distro because Hey, new thing!, and I'm still a geek at heart. But my main concern is a PC that works really well.
Is it worth it ?
(Toshiba Satelliis, with a dual-core centrino, I think, and 2gb or RAM).

I recently installed Mint as a second partition on my main desktop and on a 2009 macbook. The only futzing I had to do was edit the xorg synaptic config to get the touchpad working correctly. I would have to press down very hard for the touchpad to register movement without that change.

Otherwise it's a nice, easy to use lightweight distro. I should use it more, but I'm a little hobbled when I use it and I work faster when I'm on something I'm use to like OS X or Windows.

CujoQuarrel

2012-01-27 10:34:47 AM

Tried Unity. Sucks ballsies
Tried Mint last night but the one I got was based on Gnome3 (I think) which changed things for no apparent reason.
Going back to a pre-Unity Ubuntu for a while.

The WIMP interface works and works well. If you are going to do something different you must DO SOMETHING BETTER before it's worthwhile for a user to relearn. Why would I want to search for my applications? In Gnome2 they are nicely sorted in menus by type which means I can quickly select what I need without having to remember the name of the tools I have currently installed on that particular machine.

It looks like to me that Ubuntu was trying to move to a more Macish interface. I hate the Mac interface.

I want a Gnome2 Debian distro. What would be the best?

oryx

2012-01-27 10:40:38 AM

Sounds like a lot of using the keyboard.

frepnog

2012-01-27 10:42:37 AM

hey, did some one say Unity?

cdn3.iofferphoto.com

VALIANT RETURNS 5-2-2012!

sarah_t_s

2012-01-27 10:43:02 AM

Marine1:
Making people learn something new is the folly of nerds.

Yes and no. You can push people towards new stuff, slowly and with a very gentle learning curve. Ubuntu is a very poor example in all regards.
Upgrade and *bam* Unity, no hand holding, no 'you just upgraded so we're turning Gnome 2 helper mode on' just 'off you trot'.

Evolution gets replaced with Thunderbird. Fine. WHERE THE HELL HAS MY MAIL GONE? At no point does Ubuntu migrate, offer to migrate or indeed have a mechanism for migrating from it's old mail client that it's had for a number of years to the new one it wants you to use.

I've even seen Ubuntu freak when a grandfathered /home/username directory was restored. Config file changes that it couldn't work out so that app just went weird.

Much hate is spewed at Apple but at least OS X has a hand holding system for those coming to it from Windows. Which would, IMHO, be the right way to go about things.

sprawl15

2012-01-27 10:43:44 AM

With only a few short years of evolution, Unity has been able to conquer this distro, mankind's mightiest creation. Where were we after forty years of evolution? What swamp were we swimming around in, single celled and mindless? What if Unity's creations are superior to us? What will they become in a million years, in ten million years? What's clear is that Unity shouldn't be allowed to play God. She's far too good at it.

sarah_t_s

2012-01-27 10:47:49 AM

CujoQuarrel:
I want a Gnome2 Debian distro. What would be the best?
Erm... Debian? As in actual pure Debian and not one of the siblings? I'm pretty sure you can install whatever version of Gnome takes your fancy.

swahnhennessy

2012-01-27 11:10:51 AM

Doktor_Zhivago: I like Unity.

/hides face in shame

As do I. After years of working with the same interface, a change has been refreshing. I have my small complaints here and there, but overall I am happy with it. And if this HUD idea works, it sounds like it could be awesome.

utah dude

2012-01-27 11:12:28 AM

so they're making linux dumber than those other two operating systems so that it can start being used by more people.

/i'll write my own shell and perl scripts, thanx.

bsharitt

2012-01-27 11:29:45 AM

While not perfect yet, I do like the direction Unity and Gnome 3 are going. I f*cking hate menus(especially "start" menus)and will be happy to see them die.

jonny_q

2012-01-27 11:39:53 AM

bsharitt: While not perfect yet, I do like the direction Unity and Gnome 3 are going. I f*cking hate menus(especially "start" menus)and will be happy to see them die.

If I don't know what something is, I need a menu. If I know what it is, I can search for it. If I know what it is and I use it often. I add a launcher. You shouldn't skip step one.

nyseattitude

2012-01-27 12:00:09 PM

Broom: What amazes me in interface development is that so few get it.

We want what we want. Each of us. Some of are strictly keyboard-entry types; they do everything from the command line. Others are mouse-click-addicts; I've known people who swear clicking Copy under the Edit menu is quicker than hitting Ctrl+C.

Give us farking options, designers. If you only provide one path to command "X", fark YOU. If you change an intuitive and well-known key combination (Word circa 2003 and Windows 7), fark YOU. If you force a new interface on us, without even a handy overlay for upgraders (Unity), fark YOU.

I input everything in binary so I'm getting a kick out of your comments.

JoeJitsu

2012-01-27 12:07:25 PM

I like Mint. Mint, Mint, Mint.

lisarenee3505

2012-01-27 12:10:33 PM

Okay in all seriousness, who aside from developers and folks who feel an overwhelming need to make their lives more difficult (or the lives of their employees if they're rolling out Linux desktops to their whole orginization) actually chooses to use Linux? Face the facts, the world runs on MS Windows, and every other OS is just trying to play catch-up with the market share.

Marine1

2012-01-27 12:15:36 PM

lisarenee3505: Okay in all seriousness, who aside from developers and folks who feel an overwhelming need to make their lives more difficult (or the lives of their employees if they're rolling out Linux desktops to their whole orginization) actually chooses to use Linux? Face the facts, the world runs on MS Windows, and every other OS is just trying to play catch-up with the market share.

It's useful if you want to really customize your experience. I mean, you're right, the Linux desktop isn't as "easy" as Windows, but for basic computing needs, it's just as good (if not better in some respects) than Windows is. I still prefer Windows though.

/the "Year of the Linux Desktop" will never come.

The One True TheDavid

2012-01-27 12:18:45 PM

GUIs are okay but over-fancy GUIs are are kids.

Try Xubuntu (link) for a "traditional" desktop or Fluxbox (link) if you love menus. I switch between them. There are more minimalistic interfaces but still.

Mint & etc. are too busy for me. And Compiz is ridiculous.

The One True TheDavid

2012-01-27 12:25:17 PM

I just found out about Cinnamon (new window) and MATÉ (new window).

They're too busy for me but you kids might like 'em.

MightyPez

2012-01-27 12:39:11 PM

lisarenee3505: Okay in all seriousness, who aside from developers and folks who feel an overwhelming need to make their lives more difficult (or the lives of their employees if they're rolling out Linux desktops to their whole orginization) actually chooses to use Linux? Face the facts, the world runs on MS Windows, and every other OS is just trying to play catch-up with the market share.

For the desktop or laptops, certainly, Linux isn't going to catch on. However companies like IBM are selling Linux solutions as a service (primarily virtualization) and Google has made huge inroads to getting Linux into users hands (Android).

The trick was to remove any semblance of linux and make a nice clean interface that doesn't obstruct Joe User. My mother has an Android phone but should never have to worry about apt dependencies or xorg configuations because Google made sure make those steps completely unnecessary.

cgalant

2012-01-27 12:51:14 PM

+1 for Mint Cinnamon

I've been exclusively using ubuntu-based distributions for a few years now at work. I liked the original Gnome, and was angry when Unity came out but tried it anyway for ~3 months.

Now i'm using Mint 12 with Cinnamon installed and i'm a big fan. It gives the application menus when you need them, doesn't take away window menus, dynamically adds additional desktops when you need them, and with a twitch of the mouse you can tile and select any application on the current desktop or switch desktops. I was a little perplexed by it at first, but you can really get work done with Cinnamon - that's where Unity fails.

OnlyM3

2012-01-27 12:51:58 PM

Marine1

OpenSUSE with KDE 4. That is all.

ummm no.

Since KDE swtiched to "widgets" it realllllly started sucking. The desktop pager ( I use 4 desktops) does not refresh. It frequently shows windows open on desktops that were minimized or closed 5+ minutes ago. Karamba was admittedly flawed, but still miles ahead of these widgets.

Desktop icons are now "Widgets" not icons. WTF is the point of having the "+" "-" on an icon when you hover over it? Half the time that farks up the click intended to open the farking app.

It refuses to allow me to drag a window from one desktop and drag it to another.

If I open then close a lot of aps (Kwrite, gimp, etc...) suddenly the system starts hanging and moving verrrrrrrrrrrry slowwwwly, even when the aps are CLOSED. While Xorg spikes to 90% range. This requires a restart of KDE.

Once every week and a half or so, I have to restart(reboot) completely as the dbus-daemon decides it wants to consume 100% of the processor.

DjangoStonereaver

2012-01-27 01:00:17 PM

sarah_t_s: CujoQuarrel:
I want a Gnome2 Debian distro. What would be the best?
Erm... Debian? As in actual pure Debian and not one of the siblings? I'm pretty sure you can install whatever version of Gnome takes your fancy.

Try the base Linux Mint Debian Edition (they also have versions running LXDE
and XFCE). Its based on Debian Testing; Mint is has set up their own
repositories to filter out breakages, but it hasn't been updated since August
because their developers have been swamped with all the updates to the
desktop and apparently there have been issues with Debian making Gnome3
compatible GTK packages generally available (at least, that is my impression
of why its taking so long). Clem (the project lead) says that it will be a couple
of months until they get their LMDE repositories straightened out but you can
always use Debian's repos directly if you really want updates (I'm happy with
waiting for Mint to get their stuff together to make sure I don't have any
breakages)

The current basic spin is still using Gnome2, but since that is functionally
deprecated they will be moving to either MATE or Cinnamon (probably the
latter since its based on the same GTK version that Gnome3 uses, though
before they announced Cinnamon Clem said that LMDE would be going with
MATE).

Personally, I've used the XFCE edition since last June (when I ditched both
Ubuntu with Unity and my old laptop), and have had only minor problems
mostly due to my own relative inexperience with the finer points of setting up
Linux. I also like that its a rolling release since I'm lazy and hate having to
upgrade/reinstall my OS. It isn't as polished as Mint's main edition, but it is
a damn sight more friendly than a straight Debian install would be.

sarah_t_s

2012-01-27 01:02:40 PM

utah dude: so they're making linux dumber than those other two operating systems so that it can start being used by more people.

Most peoples interaction with Linux is already at the level of 'push button cable box changes channel' they just don't, necessarily, realise they're interacting with some flavour of Linux.

Bit hard to get dumber than that IMHO.

sarah_t_s

2012-01-27 01:08:46 PM

DjangoStonereaver: XFCE & Mint

Nice. Nice. I do hear good things about Mint. I'll stick with Gentoo and... curiously OS X though, I get on better with them and know my way around.

Yes, I too am aware that one of those is considered 'uber geek' and the other a 'Tonka toy OS for children'. I leave to the reader to figure out why a *NIX admin would buy a machine running, basically, BSD and a pretty GUI.

But yeah, if Mint can take Gnome 2 as the person I replied to wanted cool.

RedPhoenix122

2012-01-27 02:21:17 PM

Another Linux thread, and I'm still not sure which flavor I want to switch to.

cman

2012-01-27 02:42:59 PM

As an OS X user currently on my iPad, I am getting a kick out of seeing Linux followers implode upon their beloved OS.

Bschott007

2012-01-27 02:55:52 PM

I loved Ubuntu until unity. I tried unity for 3 months and reverted back to ubuntu 10.10 on my laptop.

A customer brought a Dell Dimension C521 into the store 6 months ago for service but never picked it up, hasn't paid for the service and refuses to return our calls/messages. We've held the PC 3 months past the date when it would revert to the store's ownership (per the service waiver they signed). The owner didn't want it and being the service manager (and partner) I decided to take it home.

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core, 2GB of RAM, Nvidia 8600GT, Lenovo Blu-ray Burner and a 1TB HDD. I dropped in an Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD after I got it home.

Put Linux Ubuntu on it and had nothing but problems with the SB card. It would also stutter when playing movies (DVD or files).

Removed Ubuntu and put Mint on it, connected my two 1TB external hard drives and set it up behind my LCD TV in the living room. It now makes a GREAT Home Theater PC. Mint found the correct drivers for all the hardware, and even the SB card works fine. No stuttering during movies either.

I did a power usage test prior wiping XP and putting on mint, then after putting mint in place of XP, using a Kill-A-Watt meter. I found the PC runs cooler, uses less power, and has no problem playing any of my media.

\Subby

Bschott007

2012-01-27 02:59:19 PM

cman: As an OS X user currently on my iPad, I am getting a kick out of seeing Linux followers implode upon their beloved OS.

There are multiple versions of Linux OS. I got a kick out of watching the implosion of old Mac users when Apple switched from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X. At least with Linux users, we have different variants we can switch to (or even modify any variant you wish, if you have the skills, to suit your needs). Mac users have no such option if Apple decides to do something similar.

fluffy2097

2012-01-27 03:25:05 PM

Bschott007: There are multiple versions of Linux OS.

Having more kinds of poop does not negate the fact you have a pile of poop.

Zachs Kappler

2012-01-27 03:29:01 PM

swahnhennessy: Doktor_Zhivago: I like Unity.

/hides face in shame

As do I. After years of working with the same interface, a change has been refreshing. I have my small complaints here and there, but overall I am happy with it. And if this HUD idea works, it sounds like it could be awesome.

I too, agree that it does some things right like having a search function that can find anything, but it still needs work in the resource and customization department. According to the development roadmap it will be getting more options and even more tweaking in the near future.

millsapian87

2012-01-27 04:19:27 PM

tomcatadam

2012-01-27 04:20:06 PM

I whipped up something very, very similar to this in a class project with Qt.
It was an example of how to take a great idea and give it the worst possible UI with the worst considerations imaginable.

Broom: Give us farking options, designers. If you only provide one path to command "X", fark YOU. If you change an intuitive and well-known key combination (Word circa 2003 and Windows 7), fark YOU. If you force a new interface on us, without even a handy overlay for upgraders (Unity), fark YOU.

Shuttleworth actively disdains/hates the idea of customizability. He said you can have a good, functional and nice-looking design, or you can have things be a bit customizable, but you can never have both and the latter is super-poopy-bad and idontwannadoitwaaaaa.

sasbazooka

2012-01-27 04:28:11 PM

I may be in the minority with it, but I do prefer Unity over Gnome, and prefer KDE over Unity, but there's nothing really useful other than IRC clients, Web Browsers and media managers for KDE....

CLI is still no. 1 in my heart, but it cant render CSS all that well :-P

Broom

2012-01-27 04:37:22 PM

tomcatadam: Shuttleworth actively disdains/hates the idea of customizability.

Google says: Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth.

Bury him with Stephen "No support for Flash" Jobs. I want maximal functionality, not someone else's dream of beauty.

/ Off to look at 3-boob 2-vagina porn...

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