gopher321: Hmmmmmmmmm...I think the smart money is still on the U.S naval fleet. Just a hunch tho.



They don't need to win the actual fight, they just need to make it unacceptably costly to continue it. See: how we lost Iraq II, Afghanistan, Vietnam and Korea despite our vastly superior military.

Dear Iranian Boat Swarm:

Sorry. :(

More Iran fellating from the left.


While military commanders were reading Sun Tzu, MSNBC was deep into Rules for Radicals and Mein Kampf.

Somebody Else's Problem.

Quit dragging the U.S. into it. We're tired of being your world police.

Splinshints: gopher321: Hmmmmmmmmm...I think the smart money is still on the U.S naval fleet. Just a hunch tho.



They don't need to win the actual fight, they just need to make it unacceptably costly to continue it. See: how we lost Iraq II, Afghanistan, Vietnam and Korea despite our vastly superior military.

Pyrrhic victory is best victory!

How about we just back the fark away and let Israel handle its own security?

There is nothing to gain by fighting Iran.

The Navy would just declare the strait a free-fire zone and that's be the end of Iran's little exercise.

Articles that get 'experts' to make up doomsday shat drives me scream.

Splinshints: gopher321: Hmmmmmmmmm...I think the smart money is still on the U.S naval fleet. Just a hunch tho.



They don't need to win the actual fight, they just need to make it unacceptably costly to continue it. See: how we lost Iraq II, Afghanistan, Vietnam and Korea despite our vastly superior military.

I don't think the people that get us involved in these things have much of a sense of history. I'm expecting us to "chase" the Russian military into Siberia just before winter any time now.

Why is Iranian government so crazy? The Iranian grad students I work with seem so mellow.

by Scott Peterson

Death row leaves you lots of free time to become a war analyst, apparently.

hyped rhetoric.

Non starter....

Why, a fleet of small craft operating in familiar waters has never defeated an Armada of this size *cough* Spanish *cough*, and I doubt it ever will. Now pass the Salamis.

Persian, please.

300 small fast boats are still no match for a handful of attack helicopters. Mines present a greater problem, but we have minesweeping assets in the area right now. The biggest problem is if Iran starts popping random tankers with shore based Anti-Ship Missiles. We might have difficulty finding and destroying dozens of mobile launchers.

Impasse: Pyrrhic victory is best victory!

Yea, I tried to link to the Wiki article on it but screwed up the HTML. That's why there's a weird-ass gap in my post. It was supposed to have:

That's not the point

at the top....

/ would like to go back to bed now

blondski: Why is Iranian government so crazy? The Iranian grad students I work with seem so mellow.

The impression you have of Iran is fed to you by the American media.

According to an exercise conducted 10 years ago. Kthxforthatsubbybuhbye.

TFA:
"A 2002 US military exercise simulating such a conflict proved devastating to American warships."

So their assertion is based on a 10 year old US exercise where the US suffered badly and a more recent Iranian exercise that went well? It's hard to judge how a real conflict would go based on exercises. Especially a decade old one.

Of course, Iran only needs to make it costly - if they mostly target tankers and avoid major conflict with US/NATO warships they could bring international pressure to broker a favorable peace. That also depends on the US not expanding the conflict to include airstrikes on land targets.

It might also be interesting to see if the other Gulf states get involved. They have no desire to see Iran control the region either.

It seems the global government and its minions have beaten them to the punch on causing serious problems.

I dunno, something tells me that things called "jet fighters" may be heavily involved and the ship may not even need to be physically present in the straight to assert its power.

The Irresponsible Captain: Somebody Else's Problem.

Quit dragging the U.S. into it. We're tired of being your world police.

Except when so many of your citizens are stupid enough to drive sports cars and trucks back and forth to work everyday on the interstate because they moved thirty miles from the office so they could afford a bigger house....

Yea, it's not just "Somebody Else's Problem". Could you imagine the outrage if we really did leave the middle east to its own devices and left them sort it out to the tune of $300/bbl oil and frequent shortages because of blockades and fighting?

Leopold Stotch: The biggest problem is if Iran starts popping random tankers with shore based Anti-Ship Missiles. We might have difficulty finding and destroying dozens of mobile launchers.

I doubt we'd have much sitting there if we weren't sure that it could be defended. Every time I have heard about the terrific fight that some Mid-Eastern nation could put up against us in a conventional fight it ended up looking like one of the spawn-rapefests my son likes dealing me in Black Ops for an hour at a time.

Forget the sea. Why don't they just go over the Alps like Hannibal.

Leopold Stotch: 300 small fast boats are still no match for a handful of attack helicopters. Mines present a greater problem, but we have minesweeping assets in the area right now. The biggest problem is if Iran starts popping random tankers with shore based Anti-Ship Missiles. We might have difficulty finding and destroying dozens of mobile launchers.

This. Mines in the strait, and anti-ship missiles have happened before (Goggle "The Tanker War" in the Iran-Iraq War). We train and drill on this scenario all the time. Yes, it would cause some economic hiccups for a while. However, Iran knows that its neighbors won't stay happy for long if their key exports can't make it out of the region, and if their needed imports can't come in. Also, our forces don't need to traverse the strait to get within striking distance of Iran, and they know this.

So yes, it would be a pain in the neck if they tried to close the strait. Yes, people might die. But it would not last for very long, and it would not be the economic apocalypse.

AverageAmericanGuy: blondski: Why is Iranian government so crazy? The Iranian grad students I work with seem so mellow.

The impression you have of Iran is fed to you by the American media.

Yeah I've always wanted to ask them what it's really like over there vs. what is portrayed over here but I'm too shy.

Devastating result for US in Iranian war game

FTFOh You
/admittedly, they completely whip our photoshopping asses

Tehran has stepped up its bellicose warnings of conflict in the Persian Gulf as potentially crippling new European Union and American sanctions have been approved on Iran's oil exports and central bank.

The US defied the warning of a top Iranian general this week and sent the USS Abraham Lincoln - flanked by British and French warships - through the Strait of Hormuz at the mouth of the Gulf.

Yeah, they're the bellicose ones.

TFA: In any future fight, Iran would likely "avoid escalating the conflict in a way that would play to US strengths in waging mid- to high-intensity warfare - by employing discreet tactics such as covert mine-laying, limited submarine options, and occasional mobile shore-based attacks," writes Mr. Haghshenass, in the study for the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

Rarely have I heard anything so stupid.

Iran is not the dictator of conflict escalation, should such a conflict arise. Mining the straight or bringing direct military force, however limited, is likely to provoke a devastating and completely one-sided response from US forces. Firing a few mortar rounds at a passing ship and saying, "Look, we didn't do anything really serious, so you can't drop MOABs on us," is simply silly. The US can and will use all necessary force to bring a conflict with Iran to a close as quickly as possible.

cgraves67: Why, a fleet of small craft operating in familiar waters has never defeated an Armada of this size *cough* Spanish *cough*, and I doubt it ever will. Now pass the Salamis.

But you see, those big boats of ours carry lots of small boats. And the crews manning those small boats are plenty familiar with the waters of the Persian Gulf.

Oil prices to go up just because of this article

blondski: Why is Iranian government so crazy? The Iranian grad students I work with seem so mellow.

You mean for having a quarter of the worlds oil supply and a central bank that isn't tied into the global system of central banks?

Maybe your treating your coworkers with the do unto others rule. ?

MBooda: Devastating result for US in Iranian war game

FTFOh You
/admittedly, they completely whip our photoshopping asses


Yeah, no. It was our war game and the person in charge of the "enemy" forces destroyed the US fleet in the Persian Gulf. (2002)

The issue with any of those exercises is two fold:

1. On the SSK exercise, it was a crew of career submariners running a nice top of the line Swedish boat. In real life it is some crew who was trained by the Chinese of Russians (who have shiat submarine doctrines), on a Kilo class that has decades of wear and tear on it.

2. With suicide attacks like the boat swarm, it's one thing to do those in drills where the bullets are fake. It's another thing to actually do them when you know your ass is in the first wave and thus going to die.

Iran can get a carrier if they want to. When the carrier is transiting the Straits of Hormuz it would have limited options for evasion and Iran could produce enough firepower out to destroy it. All they do accomplish is:

1. Sink some nuclear reactors right off their coast. Goodbye fishing industry and hello everyone else in the region being pissed at you.
2. Give the US a legit casus belli.
3. Cause oil prices to spike and piss off everyone else in the world. Thus ensuring the other nations either help America kick Iran's head or just keep quiet while we do it.

But carry on with the fear mongering, enh?

Suppose Ahmenadidyourjob lost his reelection? Would that make a difference or would people just transfer their delusions to the next fellow?

I think if it came down to a shooting war, Iran would fold up like the Iraqis did during the Iraq invasion. Our Naval air assets would have no problem getting the Iranian Air Force to defect to another country and we would rule the skies.
Besides, we were up against the supposedly tough Iraq army back in '03 and they were the ones who had fought the Iranians to a standstill back in the 80s.
The mullahs will overplay their hand one day and they will be lucky if they survive it.

Giltric: More Iran fellating from the left.


While military commanders were reading Sun Tzu, MSNBC was deep into Rules for Radicals and Mein Kampf.

Huh? It's highly realistic that Iran could cause major problems for a US fleet in the gulf or in the SOH. Lots of small ships packed with torpedoes, missiles and explosives can wreak havoc on these huge carrier groups. All you need is dedicated sailors willing to risk their lives to get off a shot. And hundreds of small boats.

Someone else said it best on Fark. Aircraft carriers are floating Maginot Lines.

Would we annihilate their C&C centers? Yes. Would we shoot down tons of their aircraft? Yes. Would we sink a bunch of their boats? Yes. But they only need to bring down a single carrier or other huge ship and they have won the PR battle.

blondski: Why is Iranian government so crazy? The Iranian grad students I work with seem so mellow.

How many wars has Iran been involved in since the turn of the century? How many sovereign nations has it carried out military actions in?

Compare that to the USA, and you'll see how baffling it is to an outsider that you think that Iran has the crazy government.

Haven't they already shown that swarming tactics work in Eve Online?

/(really the only difference is there's no infiinite respawn - which makes those kinds of tactics effective but unsustainable in real world situations)

"A senior Iranian lawmaker scoffed that the US "did not dare" to send its ship alone, because of the danger posed by the Islamic Republic."

Yeah, there's a reason why it's called a carrier battle GROUP.

Am I the only person that remembers the Iranians trying this shiat in the late 1980's, the media seems to have forgot that a U.S. ship was hit with a mine in the straits and Reagan retaliated with a series of smackdowns that shut these punks up for a goods 20 years.

I guess Iran could do things to drive up the cost to shipping oil globally and try to hold the world hostage. I also guess we could make Tehran go bye bye in an hour or two with minimal complaining if they do. The glare from a chunk of glass that big would make the mid latitude version of the northern lights and the fallout would drift over Afghanastan and Pakistan as a nice reminder to them.

ZERG RUSH! Kekekekekekekekeke

hydroplane: Am I the only person that remembers the Iranians trying this shiat in the late 1980's, the media seems to have forgot that a U.S. ship was hit with a mine in the straits and Reagan retaliated with a series of smackdowns that shut these punks up for a goods 20 years.

[i568.photobucket.com image 500x324]

If only he did that in Lebanon.

ha-ha-guy: Iran can get a carrier if they want to. When the carrier is transiting the Straits of Hormuz it would have limited options for evasion and Iran could produce enough firepower out to destroy it. All they do accomplish is:


2. Give the US a legit casus belli.

You're assuming that sinking a carrier is the opening act of war. What if the US is already launching strikes on Iran? You think that they're going to hold back on sinking the carrier because it might make them look bad?

The Iranian government loves this sabre-rattling bullshiat, because it always promotes nationalism. Groups of people set their personal differences aside when they perceive a threat from outside the group.

b04155: "A senior Iranian lawmaker scoffed that the US "did not dare" to send its ship alone, because of the danger posed by the Islamic Republic."

Yeah, there's a reason why it's called a carrier battle GROUP.

The imperialist pigs are using their entire military! That's not fair! They should only be allowed to use the Rhode Island National Guard to ensure we win!

The problem is that the tactics used in the wargames are not realistic. You just aren't going to be able to coordinate an attack with hundreds of small ships using only motorcycle couriers and WWII light signals to launch an attack in which all of those ships reach their targets within a few seconds of each other, especially with suicide attacks where people might be a bit hesitant.

If the timing were not that precise or there was any suspicion, those small ships get ripped apart.