Green. I'm sure glad I didn't post the thing I started to post, which was some comment about how the family's been living in a refugee camp for two years now, but they just had another baby.

Because that would be mean and probably racist.

/No, I don't know what you'd do for fun and stress relief in a refugee camp.

And it's OUR fault for what reason?

I suppose it's the White Man's Burden to go fix the problem, subby?

If only we had distributed more bibles.

This makes me thankful for being non-Haitian.

TV's Vinnie: And it's OUR fault for what reason?

You are responding to what now, exactly?


Also, to Subby: What exactly is the point here? Why has a country with no resources "failed" in experiencing social problems?

It's not called the Daily Fail for nothing.

I feel bad as a black person who's about to eat a Gino's East frozen pizza.
/People donated alot of money but it went into the hands of asshats and douchebags

cryinoutloud: Green. I'm sure glad I didn't post the thing I started to post, which was some comment about how the family's been living in a refugee camp for two years now, but they just had another baby.

Because that would be mean and probably racist.

/No, I don't know what you'd do for fun and stress relief in a refugee camp.

Government funded birth-control would be great. It would save a lot in the long term. A $1,400 vasectomy could save millions.

Haiti's biggest single problem is that it doesn't have a land registry, so no-one really owns any land or can get protection. Tourist businesses won't set up if they can't have the deeds to the land that a hotel is on, farmers won't invest in the long term, businesses won't go there. It's a complete disaster that doesn't need billions of aid, just a few tens of millions and some way to establish land rights, and I shiat you not, within a decade or so it would be quite a prosperous island.

translation: daily mail makes white man van type people feel less guilty about not donating to charity while stirring up a bit of racial resentment.

/ old joke: dilemma headline for a daily mail reader: immigrant kills pedophile

You had me at rape.

I_C_Weener: [i586.photobucket.com image 213x320]

Pretty sure Haiti has had a slight problem with no economy, no goods to sell, and no leadership coupled with failed UN and other aid for decades now. Pretty much the definition of hopeless.

Sorry, but I lolled

/totse and 4chan have killed my soul.

FatalDischarge: cryinoutloud: Green. I'm sure glad I didn't post the thing I started to post, which was some comment about how the family's been living in a refugee camp for two years now, but they just had another baby.

Because that would be mean and probably racist.

/No, I don't know what you'd do for fun and stress relief in a refugee camp.

Government funded birth-control would be great. It would save a lot in the long term. A $1,400 vasectomy could save millions.

I know that and you know that but people that vote and therefore control resources follow the advice of some guy from a couple thousand years ago don't realize that things change and we should adjust our thinking.

markie_farkie: IT'S A LIBERTARIAN AND TEA PARTY PARADISE, I TELL YA!

I see that Obama is still refusing to free all of those people being held in those FEMA camps.

I_C_Weener: [i586.photobucket.com image 213x320]

Pretty sure Haiti has had a slight problem with no economy, no goods to sell, and no leadership coupled with failed UN and other aid for decades now. Pretty much the definition of hopeless.

Well, at least they have a McDonald's. Surely the Haitians can all get jobs there and lift their country up by it's bootstraps.

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm not sure that's a whole lot different than it was before the quake

So was it? Anyone who knows?
I have a hard time believing that any place would not be worse off after a big earthquake.

/the difference being the amount of time it takes to fix things (if at all)

Bomb Head Mohammed: / old joke: dilemma headline for a daily mail reader: immigrant kills pedophile

Laughed at that. Applies to Fox News viewers as well

Barack Obama doesn't care about black people.

I_C_Weener: [i586.photobucket.com image 213x320]

Pretty sure Haiti has had a slight problem with no economy, no goods to sell, and no leadership coupled with failed UN and other aid for decades now. Pretty much the definition of hopeless.

It's good to see an American company like McDonald's can open up shop even in Haiti.

God's been busy with Tebow.

I know imperialism is extremely out of vogue these days, but a small part of me does think that they were better off as a colony!

Maybe a more modern solution would be "mentoring"; a rich western nation takes responsibility for a country (or several in the case of richer nations like the US, UK, France, Germany etc.), sends it troops if needed for peace-keeping, gets it's companies to invest, and whilst isn't running the show, oversees the government, stops corruption and bribery etc.
I know it's western imperialism (although China, Japan, S. Korea etc need to step up as well. Likewise the richer middle-east nations), but I'm pretty convinced that if left to their own devices, there isn't the experience and know-how, at present, to shake out the corrupt criminals and run the country properly, and even when there is, they lack the resources, and so any serious attempt ends up failing spectacularly in a coup, with new criminals coming in.
Colonialism caused most of these problems, so maybe it can fix them too. Well, "mentoring" - let them run the place, it is their country after all. Just keep a firm hand on top of it, to make sure it's done properly.

Liberals: Let's send them an assload of money! It will make us feel better about ourselves while it gives the illusion of compassion and helping!

Conservatives: It won't work. The corrupt politicians and business owners will just keep it for themselves.

Liberals: You racist assholes! You just don't want to help the black people!

Conservatives: Sure we do, but let's go down there and really help. We'll build hospitals and roads and all kinds of useful stuff.

Liberals: NO!!! You're nation building! There's no dignity!

Conservatives: Suit yourselves then.

(Two years later...)

Liberals: Hey! All the corrupt politicians and business men kept the money for themselves! Why didn't this work?

IIRC, hasn't this been a problem for a long time now? They were a shiathole before (no one cared), quake hits (OMG!!! HELP THEM!!!), then as soon as it no longer makes for good television, people stopped caring again. People only give a shiat about the poor and the needy in other countries, but only while it is fashionable, but look at the poor and needy in our own country as vermin who deserved everything they get.

I'm certainly not poor and needy, though. I just don't have as much money as I would like to have, and would kindly accept people giving me some in the meanwhile.

/wait, what?


Oh, wait, one last thing... my Aperture Laboratories work shirt from Thinkgeek was made in Haiti, IIRC. Too lazy to go check.

DiamondDave: Liberals: Hey! All the corrupt politicians and business men kept the money for themselves! Why didn't this work?

Probably because all the money never left the corrupt politicians and business men on this soil to begin with. This afternoon, Limbaugh himself said that "Republicans want to control all of the money". That is not taken out of context, he meant it as a slight against the party. Limbaugh, the poster child of gluttony, hypocrisy, god-loving, Reagan-loving, gay-bashing and everything else the current mainstream Republican stands for, has been starting to call out the Republicans for what they are: greedy, and not giving a shiat about people who don't have the money to buy themselves a voice in government.

Not that I'm the biggest fan of the Democrats, mind you... I just love watching any form of establishment of authority destroy themselves, backstab members of their own team, lie, cheat and steal, just for a taste of power.... so they can get right up to that big red button, think to themselves that they can end millions of lives with a command, and mess their pants just in time to choke down a $10 bottled tap before their interview with the news organization of their choice.

Farking love it.

DiamondDave: Conservatives: Sure we do, but let's go down there and really help. We'll build hospitals and roads and all kinds of useful stuff.

Uh, what? When was that ever seriously suggested? Conservatives don't want to build infrastructure HERE, let alone in the 3rd world where they can't make 200% profit.

No, the conservative response is more often along the lines of "they got themselves into that mess, it's not our responsibility" completely ignoring the long term effects of French colonization. Of course, that doesn't make it just *our* responsibility, but some historical perspective would be nice.

DiamondDave: Liberals: Let's send them an assload of money! It will make us feel better about ourselves while it gives the illusion of compassion and helping!

Conservatives: It won't work. The corrupt politicians and business owners will just keep it for themselves.

Liberals: You racist assholes! You just don't want to help the black people!...

This isn't something you want to do, DiamondDave. We'll point out that Conservatives give more to charity and Conservatives went down to kidnap babies that weren't even in the earthquake zone to take advantage of the disaster, and so on. Do yourself a favor and quit while you're not looking completely asinine.

Baryogenesis: DiamondDave: Conservatives: Sure we do, but let's go down there and really help. We'll build hospitals and roads and all kinds of useful stuff.

Uh, what? When was that ever seriously suggested? Conservatives don't want to build infrastructure HERE, let alone in the 3rd world where they can't make 200% profit.

No, the conservative response is more often along the lines of "they got themselves into that mess, it's not our responsibility" completely ignoring the long term effects of French colonization. Of course, that doesn't make it just *our* responsibility, but some historical perspective would be nice.

Or worse, 'these people sold their country to the devil to gain independence from the French and should be sent no aid'

But ya, throwing money alone won't solve things and long term can hurt things. Plus I've heard less than half of the quake relief pledges ever even got sent, let alone reached the people who needed it. Now they've got a disease outbreak on top of everything else.

May pat Robertson is right.

Wizard Drongo: I know imperialism is extremely out of vogue these days, but a small part of me does think that they were better off as a colony!

Maybe a more modern solution would be "mentoring"; a rich western nation takes responsibility for a country (or several in the case of richer nations like the US, UK, France, Germany etc.), sends it troops if needed for peace-keeping, gets it's companies to invest, and whilst isn't running the show, oversees the government, stops corruption and bribery etc.
I know it's western imperialism (although China, Japan, S. Korea etc need to step up as well. Likewise the richer middle-east nations), but I'm pretty convinced that if left to their own devices, there isn't the experience and know-how, at present, to shake out the corrupt criminals and run the country properly, and even when there is, they lack the resources, and so any serious attempt ends up failing spectacularly in a coup, with new criminals coming in.
Colonialism caused most of these problems, so maybe it can fix them too. Well, "mentoring" - let them run the place, it is their country after all. Just keep a firm hand on top of it, to make sure it's done properly.

Not a bad idea.

Cold country mentality to fix a hot country fark up.

Saw Haiti once, and not by choice. Was visiting potential manufacturers in the D.R., one of which had quoted way below what the others (already obscenely cheap labor) had quoted. I just wasn't buying it, no way they could be that much cheaper and surely we would get farked somehow later on. So they showed me. Midnight caravans of modal containers over the border into Haiti, a few hundred bucks to the soldiers and an absolute hell-hole of a manufacturing "facility", worst I'd ever seen, and I've seen a few.

Some of the biggest names in the business were having their stuff made in that camp. All marked as made in the D.R.

I hate this world.

" inhuman conditions, blamed for driving up violence, rape and pedophilia "



Sounds just like any ordinary Fark thread if you ask me...

What we should have done is invaded, conquered, and appointed a military governor - in the week following the quake. There should have been a five year plan for recovery and a return to local democratic rule. The NGOs should have been placed under strict supervision, and been required to use at least 99% of their donations for whatever purpose the military government dictated the funds be used for - if the NGOs didn't like it, they should have been shown the door.

We should have hired local Haitians to clear debris, reclaim building materials, rebuild infrastructure/housing, etc. - they aren't useless or stupid.

We should have passed out free Norplant-type birth control to any woman that wanted it.

We should have arrested, given drumhead trials to, and executed the profiteers.


Instead, we did what has amounted to nothing, and far too many Haitians are living in a hell on Earth.

Sometimes my friends, it's more humane to crack the whip.

Teach a man to fish, etc. etc.

/Is this thing on?
//Hello??

Sounds like it's run by government unions.

Haiti was one of the first countries to liberate themselves from their colonial master in France. That was over 200 years ago and sadly, they haven't progressed much and infact things have gotten worse. Environmental destruction from deforestation, business leaders and politicians stripping the nation of the funds they generate, foreign aid that does nothing but evaporate due to corruption. Add to it the earthquake disaster last year and Haiti is not a viable country anymore much like Somolia. The only difference is Haiti is located in central america and should be viable if only there was some proper management.

Honestly, as corrupt as the UN is, they really should take over briefly and then assign a protectorate over the area giving the territory to a nation or group of nations to manage until a viable nation can be created (think post WW2 territorial trusts). Yes, it is a little reverse colonialism, but it would be the best shot to try and solve this situation that has been a problem for decades. Restructure Haiti's government, police force, create a registry, infrastructure, maybe move the capital rather than rebuilding it in the middle of the quake zone, and create some semblence of order and an economy. Then in 20 or 30 years, they can be released as a protectorate and have a decent shot as an effective nation. Hell, it couldn't go worse than things are now and over the past 20 years. Or we can continue to sit back and let the rape, robbery, looting, disease, and rape continue and piss relatively small amounts of cash indefinately to ease our conscience for no real benefit.

Time to bring Haiti into the fold like Samoa and Puerto Rico. If we keep adding territories, we may have 57 states one day.

It's always interesting to see how many people assume that poor folks in places like Haiti are having kids because they don't know about birth control.

Well, you're wrong. They know and they don't care--they won't use it anyway. My cousin & her husband are physicians with Doctors Without Borders. They were in Africa for a few years. She would try to get the women to use birth control, while he talked to the men. No go. Why? You have to have sons to be a man. If you are a woman you must give a man sons. If you use condoms, it means one of you is cheating. Besides, the men claim the condom makes it uncomfortable, and the women don't usually take the pill. They are afraid that things like pills, Norplant, etc are part of a plot to kill them off.

They moved to Alaska after trying to save babies, only to have them die while mom was off farking some guy, making another kid. They work with the Alaskan natives now, and while they say alcoholism & drugs are bad, the people are trying hard to get things under control.

TV's Vinnie: And it's OUR fault for what reason?

Um, it's not our fault at all, unless you're posting from Haiti and thus using a different definition for "our" than most internet folks.

Haiti has been case-in-point for international aid doing jack shiat without a solid local government or at least local culture of civic responsibility to back it up for much longer than the time since the earthquake. We (the west) have established this pretty well empirically by trying every form of aid short of a military invasion and the institution of martial law under NATO or something, and nothing has stuck yet.

this whole "new colonialism" thing farkers are suggesting for Haiti?

the US tried that already. of course, the US promised to keep Haitians in positions of power, but that didn't really happen; the US also built the infrastructure with conscripted labor.

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It wasn't a great place before the quake, as well as shiat takes time to fix. Doesn't happen overnight, just ask New Orleans. Everything is back to normal there right guys?