Boot/throat...continue.

GAT_00: Don't give up now. Hold up until the nuclear program is ended and IAEA inspectors let in. The sanctions are working and might even cause a popular uprising.

This.

fark the Iranian Government, bunch of snakes who would throw their own citizens under the bus to get their way. Enough Persians travel abroad that they know what's really going on.

I'm going to be unpopular and say that the way Obama (and Bush) have handeled Iran has been the most effective use of American diplomacy in years.

this morning on NPR they did a great piece about the way those guys move in and out of the markets and inject their oil/gas revenue into the currency to prop it up.

Lunchlady: I'm going to be unpopular and say that the way Obama (and Bush) have handeled Iran has been the most effective use of American diplomacy in years.

This is wholly Obama's war of choice.

GAT_00: Don't give up now. Hold up until the nuclear program is ended and IAEA inspectors let in. The sanctions are working and might even cause a popular uprising.

Uh, Iran voluntarily invited the IAEA into the country less than 2 weeks ago.

Lord_Baull: Lunchlady: I'm going to be unpopular and say that the way Obama (and Bush) have handeled Iran has been the most effective use of American diplomacy in years.

This is wholly Obama's war of choice.

....wut?

GAT_00: Don't give up now. Hold up until the nuclear program is ended and IAEA inspectors let in. The sanctions are working and might even cause a popular uprising.

I hope you are being sarcastic. I'm sure it will work out just as well as it did in Iraq in the 90's or Cuba for the last 40 years. Sanctions do not work.

BravadoGT: Iran will never agree to anything that would meaningfully disrupting their ability to build their nuke. It's a stall tactic. Might as well open a dialogue with a rattlesnake.

Well, that's really the bottom line, and they have Best Korea to show how to do it right.

Harry_Seldon: BravadoGT: Iran will never agree to anything that would meaningfully disrupting their ability to build their nuke. It's a stall tactic. Might as well open a dialogue with a rattlesnake.

Well, that's really the bottom line, and they have Best Korea to show how to do it right.

Their people have to resort to cannibalism at times, they certainly are not "doing it right". Most Americans don't want another war especially in the middle east so sanctions and negotiations is the way it is.

Headso: Their people have to resort to cannibalism at times, they certainly are not "doing it right".

The elites have plenty of food, and the Republican Guard is well taked care of. The rest is details. If some people need to die of starvation for the greater good of the Islamic Republic of Iran, then Allah must will it.

I'm sure that this time Iran is completely serious about negotiating a solution.

GAT_00: Don't give up now. Hold up until the nuclear program is ended and IAEA inspectors let in. The sanctions are working and might even cause a popular uprising.

Which would be perfect

GAT_00: macil22: Sanctions do not work.

Which is totally why Iran's economy isn't cratering right now and they aren't trying to get the sanctions ended. OH WAIT.

Yeah maybe for the first time in history we will see sanctions actually work... yeah right... keep dreaming.

If it was an R in office and not a D you would be singing a different tune.

GAT_00: macil22: Sanctions do not work.

Which is totally why Iran's economy isn't cratering right now and they aren't trying to get the sanctions ended. OH WAIT.

I've heard of selective blindness, but did you somehow not read the first 3/4 of a single line? Jesus, GAT. Iraq's economy was, and Cuba (and I'll add North Korea's) economies are, crippled by sanctions. Hell, the Norks are pretty much craters inside craters inside craters economically. Yet those regimes were/are demonstrably and thoroughly stable against regime change from within. Even the USSR, with its basically self-imposed sanctions of refusing to trade with the free world, didn't collapse until the Soviet system rotted to the point that food was running out and there was nothing left to lose.

Which is a long way to say, "sanctions don't work." Unless they're because you want to pretend you're doing something to topple a dictator but don't have the balls to do the messy job of actually pushing them over. Or you're cold enough to sanction everything and not puss out when the reports of poor, starving innocent people start showing up.

Oh for Fark sake, I thought I had my thoughts on this issue pretty well inventoried and then GAT_00 has to go off and say something I agree with..... I must have been wrong to begin with.

Lift the sanctions, email the Iranians the blue prints to our nuclear weapons and hell, lets park two of our nuclear subs in "Tehran Harbor" and just leave the keys in the ignition as our seamen stroll off to check out the Persian babes....

BravadoGT: Iran will never agree to anything that would meaningfully disrupting their ability to build their nuke

Even the Secretary of Defense says he doesn't think they're trying to build a nuke.

Panetta admits Iran not developing nukes (new window)

It's just a pretext for saber rattling.

Sanctions don't work, but they do harden the populace - in Iran, the populace that is already growing more liberal without any "help" - against the sanctioning parties. So, hey, if we want to double down on the Iranian Revolution, let's keep the sanctions going. Cause interfering in Iranian politics has worked so farking well so far.

GAT_00: tankjr: GAT_00: Don't give up now. Hold up until the nuclear program is ended and IAEA inspectors let in. The sanctions are working and might even cause a popular uprising.

Uh, Iran voluntarily invited the IAEA into the country less than 2 weeks ago.

And their nuke program?

The nuclear program that Leon Panetta and the Israeli Defense force have both said they don't have?

they're trying to build a nuclear power program. Once that's up and running they could feasibly develop a nuclear weapon within a year ( and they might). But Iran is not a nuclear threat to anybody.

Worry about Pakistan. Worry about loose nukes in the Balkans.

Hell, the fetishization of nuclear weaponry has actually been a boon to us, because there are way more chemical and biological weapons that are way more accessible to way more people, but instead people fixate on nukes and disregard the fact that there's some terrifying shiat being kept in prefab sheds in central Russia with little more than a padlock on the door.

This Iran bullshiat is just a bunch of posturing on the part of Iran (largely a byproduct of some pretty fascinating power struggles within the supreme Council and IRGC), coupled with some pretty devious Likud party histrionics(which are largely point shaving strategies to handicap the 2012 presidential race in favor of the Republicans and away from Obama).

It's a pretty wretched game of three-way chicken, and when all is said is done somebody in charge is going lose their job, whether it be Obama, Netanyahu, or Ahmedinajad. (and frankly I'm putting my money on Obama being the only one of those three guys with the same title come this time next year).

Tellingthem SmartestFunniest 2012-01-26 10:12:21 PM


jpo2269: Oh for Fark sake, I thought I had my thoughts on this issue pretty well inventoried and then GAT_00 has to go off and say something I agree with..... I must have been wrong to begin with.

Lift the sanctions, email the Iranians the blue prints to our nuclear weapons and hell, lets park two of our nuclear subs in "Tehran Harbor" and just leave the keys in the ignition as our seamen stroll off to check out the Persian babes....

do all that but only if we can import the Persian babes instead

Before I could totally agree with you, I would need to see what a "Persian babe" migh look like....

RevCarter: GAT_00: tankjr: GAT_00: Don't give up now. Hold up until the nuclear program is ended and IAEA inspectors let in. The sanctions are working and might even cause a popular uprising.

Uh, Iran voluntarily invited the IAEA into the country less than 2 weeks ago.

And their nuke program?

The nuclear program that Leon Panetta and the Israeli Defense force have both said they don't have?

they're trying to build a nuclear power program. Once that's up and running they could feasibly develop a nuclear weapon within a year ( and they might). But Iran is not a nuclear threat to anybody.

Worry about Pakistan. Worry about loose nukes in the Balkans.

Hell, the fetishization of nuclear weaponry has actually been a boon to us, because there are way more chemical and biological weapons that are way more accessible to way more people, but instead people fixate on nukes and disregard the fact that there's some terrifying shiat being kept in prefab sheds in central Russia with little more than a padlock on the door.

This Iran bullshiat is just a bunch of posturing on the part of Iran (largely a byproduct of some pretty fascinating power struggles within the supreme Council and IRGC), coupled with some pretty devious Likud party histrionics(which are largely point shaving strategies to handicap the 2012 presidential race in favor of the Republicans and away from Obama).

It's a pretty wretched game of three-way chicken, and when all is said is done somebody in charge is going lose their job, whether it be Obama, Netanyahu, or Ahmedinajad. (and frankly I'm putting my money on Obama being the only one of those three guys with the same title come this time next year).

Thank you for the thoughtful analysis. Have an upvote funny comment button thingy deal.

Although I'm not sure that Bebe is gonna be gone. The religious fundies over there are increasing from immigration and its getting scary.

Operation Merlin - how the CIA helped Iran learn how to make a nuclear bomb

The CIA case officer was deeply concerned by the ease with which the Russian had discovered flaws in the designs. He knew that that meant the Iranians could, too, and that they could then fix and make use of the repaired blueprints to help them build a bomb. If so, the CIA would have assisted the Iranians in joining the nuclear club. He grew so concerned about whether he had aided the Iranian nuclear program that he went to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence to tell congressional investigators about the problems with the program. But no action was ever taken.

And the loss of all the CIA's spies in Iran in 2006, a colossal blunder:

The CIA officer had made a disastrous mistake. She had sent information to one Iranian agent meant for an entire spy network; the data could be used to identify virtually every spy the CIA had inside Iran.

Mistake piled on mistake. As the CIA later learned, the Iranian who received the download was actually a double agent. The agent quickly turned the data over to Iranian security officials, and it enabled them to "roll up" the CIA's agent network throughout Iran. CIA sources say that several of the Iranian agents were arrested and jailed, while the fates of some of the others is still unknown.

This espionage disaster, of course, was not reported in the press. It left the CIA virtually blind in Iran, unable to provide any significant intelligence on one of the most critical issues facing the United States -- whether Tehran was about to go nuclear.

In fact, just as President Bush and his aides were making the case in 2004 and 2005 that Iran was moving rapidly to develop nuclear weapons, the American intelligence community found itself unable to provide the evidence to back up the administration's public arguments. On the heels of the CIA's failure to provide accurate prewar intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, the agency was once again clueless in the Middle East. In the spring of 2005, in the wake of the CIA's Iranian disaster, Porter Goss, the CIA's new director, told President Bush in a White House briefing that the CIA really didn't know how close Iran was to becoming a nuclear power.

macil22: GAT_00: macil22: Sanctions do not work.

Which is totally why Iran's economy isn't cratering right now and they aren't trying to get the sanctions ended. OH WAIT.

Yeah maybe for the first time in history we will see sanctions actually work... yeah right... keep dreaming.

If it was an R in office and not a D you would be singing a different tune.

If there was a republican in office we would be at war with Iran.

BravadoGT: Iran will never agree to anything that would meaningfully disrupting their ability to build their nuke. It's a stall tactic. Might as well open a dialogue with a rattlesnake.

... that you've been poking with a stick for two hours.

We're the reason they want a nuke in the first place. It's the only way they can make us stop farking with them.

Slave to Israel.

Sanic123 SmartestFunniest 2012-01-26 11:12:34 PM


macil22: GAT_00: macil22: Sanctions do not work.

Which is totally why Iran's economy isn't cratering right now and they aren't trying to get the sanctions ended. OH WAIT.

Yeah maybe for the first time in history we will see sanctions actually work... yeah right... keep dreaming.

If it was an R in office and not a D you would be singing a different tune.

If there was a republican in office we would be at war with Iran.

Of course.. Everyone knows GWB bombed Iran right before he left office as many on Fark had predicted. Maybe you were not one of those claiming Bush would start a war with Iran before he left office, but there were many. The fact that at minimum were are six years down the road and no bombs have been droped should count for something in the realm of restraint in regards to Iran.

I'm sorry ahmadinejad is to busy sucking off nancy grace...

/what was the question?

Its a toothless embargo. Everyone's ignoring it. The only one its really hurting is Europe, who has nowhere else to replace the oil they get from Iran.

Meanwhile China and India are laughing all the way to the bank, getting huge discounts on Iranian oil.

The real big news with this is India trading oil with Iran using rupees instead of US dollars, and China using rmb for Iranian oil.

Its just another futile attempt to maintain a dying empire. The petro-dollar is on its deathbed.

GAT_00: The sanctions are working and might even cause a popular uprising.

No, they won't. Most Iranians view having a civilian nuclear power program as a source of national pride. Being targeted for sanctions for what they see as a civilian nuclear power program which they believe they are entitled to as part of the NPT while Israel is allowed to have nuclear weapons despite not being part of the NPT nor subject to inspections by the IAEA is perceived, by most Iranians, as deeply unfair.

Many of the people active in the Green Revolution to overthrow the current crop of tyrants running the country have been quite clear that sanctions hurt their cause by increasing support for the regime while creating an anti-US backlash that the regime can use to undermine support for a true democratic state.

But, hey, keep shilling for Obama.

Misconduc: I'm sorry ahmadinejad is to busy sucking off nancy grace...

/what was the question?

fap?

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: GAT_00: The sanctions are working and might even cause a popular uprising.

No, they won't. Most Iranians view having a civilian nuclear power program as a source of national pride. Being targeted for sanctions for what they see as a civilian nuclear power program which they believe they are entitled to as part of the NPT while Israel is allowed to have nuclear weapons despite not being part of the NPT nor subject to inspections by the IAEA is perceived, by most Iranians, as deeply unfair.

Many of the people active in the Green Revolution to overthrow the current crop of tyrants running the country have been quite clear that sanctions hurt their cause by increasing support for the regime while creating an anti-US backlash that the regime can use to undermine support for a true democratic state.

But, hey, keep shilling for Obama.

Also the current Iranian government never signed NPT far as I know. The old government did in 68 but the new government took power in 79. If the current Iranian government never re-signed NPT they don't have to be a part of it. Letting the IAEA in Iran therefore is courtesy given to IAEA.

Dear Iran. Sanctions? What sanctions? We don't have any stinkin' sanctions. Or if we do it's strictly in early development and for peaceful purposes only.

Frederick: That's an interesting take. I confirmed the '68 signing through Wiki. But did not see anything regarding obligations of "new" governments to "old" government commitments. Is the above your opinion only or have you read support elsewhere?

/not arguing just curious

It's opinion.

An revolution pretty much wipes things clean in my book. If the new government dose not re-sign past treaties from the old government I would guess that they don't follow them unless they re-sign. Right now Egypt is backing out of a number of past treaties. We'll see if they are held accountable to past treaties from the old government now won't we?

Nor do I think there is something in NPT the cover what happen if a signer has revolution that over throws the signing government. If NPT has noting to cover this than Iran is out NPT. Any one assuming they will follow what the old government signed is well... You only make a ass out of your self when you assume.

Lord_Baull: Lunchlady: I'm going to be unpopular and say that the way Obama (and Bush) have handeled Iran has been the most effective use of American diplomacy in years.

This is wholly Obama's war of choice.

Are you this ignorant or is that a solid troll?

/wrote thesis on Iran 6 years ago. Went in with the "derp let's bomb them"- finished feeling for the populace there (biased) and advocating a balanced approach of sanctions and diplomacy as the ONLY choice (pragmatic!) Boosh and Obambam have both followed near identical policies, saber rattling and all.

How can we tell if they are worth saving unless we see their women?

Ahm a dinner jacket is one ugly dude; if the women are the same, well, nuke 'em!

erik-k: GAT_00: macil22: Sanctions do not work.

Which is totally why Iran's economy isn't cratering right now and they aren't trying to get the sanctions ended. OH WAIT.

I've heard of selective blindness, but did you somehow not read the first 3/4 of a single line? Jesus, GAT. Iraq's economy was, and Cuba (and I'll add North Korea's) economies are, crippled by sanctions. Hell, the Norks are pretty much craters inside craters inside craters economically. Yet those regimes were/are demonstrably and thoroughly stable against regime change from within. Even the USSR, with its basically self-imposed sanctions of refusing to trade with the free world, didn't collapse until the Soviet system rotted to the point that food was running out and there was nothing left to lose.

Which is a long way to say, "sanctions don't work." Unless they're because you want to pretend you're doing something to topple a dictator but don't have the balls to do the messy job of actually pushing them over. Or you're cold enough to sanction everything and not puss out when the reports of poor, starving innocent people start showing up.

See, I've got this theory that it's not our job to actually go in and change governments. We've been doing that in central and south america, and that hasn't gone real well. We've tried it in the middle east, and well, that went real poorly. As a country we have every right to say "You're a jackhole, and we're not going to trade with you because of it" and if that puts enough pressure on the cause a popular uprising, cool. If it doesn't well, we're still not playing ball because of the aforementioned jackhole.

It's like Ron Paul and Newt at the debate a couple debates ago talking about Cuba. I hate to agree with Paul, but on that particular topic he was right. Newt was all "Why aren't we forcing a cuban spring... i want boots on the ground" and Paul retorted with "None of our business"

America didn't cause the arab spring, and didn't actually do much to support it. People need to fight their own revolutions, generally speaking.

BravadoGT: Iran will never agree to anything that would meaningfully disrupting their ability to build their nuke. It's a stall tactic. Might as well open a dialogue with a rattlesnake.

Disregarding the fact that they have every right to build their own nukes, and it's better to open up a dialogue then let the dumb threats between Iran and Israel continue. Nobody has anything to gain from another Middle East war. Not like Iraq made a bit of difference. Woo hoo, Saddam is dead, now what?

socratesthekidd: America didn't cause the arab spring, and didn't actually do much to support it. People need to fight their own revolutions, generally speaking.

I would argue that, for all its evils and problems, the ouster of Saddam undeniably sowed the seeds for the Arab Spring.