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(Daily Kos)   Newt previews the finishing move he'll use against Romney in the next debate. ULTRA COMBO   (dailykos.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Ultra Combo, Swiss bank accounts, stump speeches, Paul Tsongas, Health Care, International, Mitt Romney, newts, Daily Kos  
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4791 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Jan 2012 at 3:51 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-26 06:26:07 PM  

thamike: Knara: When you're debating serious topics

Let me know when the Republicans start doing this.


Oh, they're debating serious topics, they're just doing it very poorly.
 
2012-01-26 06:33:18 PM  

Knara: PanicMan: DamnYankees: I just hope tonight is less boring than the last one.

CNN is allowing audience participation.

Unfortunately.

I for one don't think our debates should even have large audiences. This isn't "Whose Line is It Anyway?", it's a debate to pick who they want to be their candidate for POTUS.

Play to the electorate once you're the nominee. When you're debating serious topics, I want you paying attention to each other and the subject at hand, not trying to peg out the Applause-O-Meter.


I think it's great. Who says political debate is supposed to be pristine and bloodless? Ever seen footage of British Parliament? (or any other country's parliament?)

In the modern era of SuperPACs spending hundreds of millions on campaign commercial litzkreigs , and where every candidate is coached by debate consultants and just mindlessly regurgitate canned, market tested lines ..... the more organic, off the cuff and spontaneous the environment the better. Being President is a mentally and psychologically difficult job, and it's not performed in a vacuum. Let's see who has the temper. Let's see who reacts to being heckled. Anything to get these candidates to show even a glimpse of their real personalities and away from their canned responses.
 
2012-01-26 06:34:57 PM  

thamike: Knara: When you're debating serious topics

Let me know when the Republicans start doing this.


Gay marriage is serious! It could destroy American families in an unspecified and never mentioned way!
 
2012-01-26 06:38:33 PM  

jackthezomber: Lando Lincoln: jackthezomber: Lando Lincoln: jackthezomber: Geotpf: Besides, can you just imagine an Obama/Gingirch debate? It'll be much better television than a Obama/Romney snoozefest.

Yeah, i can picture it great. It mostly consists of Obama crying.

From laughter, sure.

that's so creative. no one has said that in the thread so far.

Okay, okay. Please elaborate on some things that Newt could say to Obama that would make him cry. We'd all love to hear them.

You're an utter failure and the American people don't want you.


And just like every other time he opens his mouth, Newt would be generously lying. (new window)
 
2012-01-26 06:38:51 PM  

InmanRoshi: Seriously, how freaking flawed is Romney when he can't take a firm lead with all of his resources behind him? I don't think he's really that more electable than Gingrich. I think they're both equally unelectable, it's just that Romney's unelectability doesn't show up in the media narratives and on punditry paper, it always shows up on voting day with the voters. He's like the 6'4" 250 lbs. linebacker who looks great in the uniform and runs like the wind, but can't shed a block or make a tackle to save his life.


Both candidates are terrible, but I don't really think we can say that Romney's negatives show up on election day when there have only been 3 contests this year. Newt won South Carolina the only way he knows how to win anything-through appeals to ignorant emotion. I don't believe this is going to work in Florida and it sure as hell isn't going to fly in Ohio or California for that matter. Newt may indeed win Texas, but it doesn't matter so much any more since that primary isn't scheduled for Super Tuesday.

This is all opinion, of course, but weighing all the factors including polls, Intrade, and the histories of the candidates, I think it's unlikely that Newt pulls it out (heh) in Florida. Those kiddos who love the way Newt makes them feel are going to be really disappointed next Tuesday, just like they have with every other "Not Romney" during these primaries.
 
2012-01-26 06:38:52 PM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: I don't know if my liver can handle many more of these debates.

/Being sort of serious here.


Do what I do. I keep a rum and coke and a glass of water in front of me and rotate the drinks. I have to. I only weigh 113 lbs. If I drank the rum and coke every time on of them said something stupid I would died of alcohol poisoning.
 
2012-01-26 06:41:17 PM  

InmanRoshi: I think it's great. Who says political debate is supposed to be pristine and bloodless? Ever seen footage of British Parliament? (or any other country's parliament?)


Slightly different audience between addressing/debating in Parliment and in front of a general audience.

And that's not even covering the fact that, for example, the House of Commons may be high energy, but it's by and large *respectful* even when things get heated. That respect is *enforced* by the Speaker who is more than happy to send you into time-out if you cross the line.

As a small example of the difference, take a look back (and tonight, again) and see how many people actually refer to the President as "President Obama". See how many ad hominems the participants throw at the POTUS instead of sticking to the issues. That's the difference and think we should be trying to act better.

You can be high energy without catering to the lowest common denominator and maintaining a sense of class. These "debates" aren't even pretending to be anything of the sort. Though I wish Brian Williams had been tougher, I greatly appreciated that his rules caused lines that were obviously practiced with pauses *specifically for applause* inserted into them to fall flat and sound awkward.
 
2012-01-26 06:43:54 PM  
img685.imageshack.us
Dirty, commie CNN readers.
 
2012-01-26 06:47:36 PM  
FTFA: Yes, I know some of this is bullshiat: Paul Tsongas wasn't the most liberal candidate, and Mitt Romney wasn't running to Ted Kennedy's left. But if you're Mitt Romney, a Republican primary debate isn't when you don't want to be explaining why you were voting in the Democratic primary in 1992 or how it was only on some issues that you were trying outflank Kennedy.

See that's the magic of it. Newt knows you don't have to be 100% truthful with the audience he is pandering to. It just has to sound good, stir their emotions, and be what they want to hear. Michelle Bachman took it a little too far and pulled "facts" out of her ass which she got called out on. Newt is too smart for that, he wraps his bullshiat in a smidgen of fact and when called out he will focus on that on tiny bit of truth while attacking the entity calling him out.

I will give Newt credit, he said he was going "nuclear" on Mitt and he successfully did more than I ever imagined. Newt might be a sociopath, but he is a very cunning sociopath. With Sarah Palin's blessing too, dude could actually pull it off. As a "family values" candidate at that.
 
2012-01-26 06:53:29 PM  
What is President Gingrich going to do when he has to persuade the G8 of something? Bring along his own peanut gallery to woop woop for him?
 
2012-01-26 06:53:48 PM  

Knara: Unfortunately.


Agreed. The whole thing is frankly embarrassing.
 
2012-01-26 06:54:04 PM  
So an old rich white man is tooling on an old admittedly richer white man for being rich.

This is a fun primary.
 
2012-01-26 06:57:13 PM  
i276.photobucket.com

Newt's momentum has stalled and he's desperate to get it back on track. Unfortunately for him, South Carolina looks like something of an anomaly. Sure, he could swing it back in his favor, but it's more likely that he overplays his hand. That's because, after watching Newt's antics over the last two decades, two things are clear. One: Newt Gingrich is genuinely sociopathic. Two: Newt Gingrich is a farkup because he is blinded to his own shortcomings (see One).

I know, I know...he has wealthy backers, the primaries are unpredictable, Mitt Romney is basically just as lame...but trust me on this-Newt loses Florida. This is coming from a guy who would love to see Newt get shredded in the general, but one has to be realistic.

Graphic courtesy of 538.com (new window)
 
2012-01-26 06:58:47 PM  

heavymetal: FTFA: Yes, I know some of this is bullshiat: Paul Tsongas wasn't the most liberal candidate, and Mitt Romney wasn't running to Ted Kennedy's left. But if you're Mitt Romney, a Republican primary debate isn't when you don't want to be explaining why you were voting in the Democratic primary in 1992 or how it was only on some issues that you were trying outflank Kennedy.

See that's the magic of it. Newt knows you don't have to be 100% truthful with the audience he is pandering to. It just has to sound good, stir their emotions, and be what they want to hear. Michelle Bachman took it a little too far and pulled "facts" out of her ass which she got called out on. Newt is too smart for that, he wraps his bullshiat in a smidgen of fact and when called out he will focus on that on tiny bit of truth while attacking the entity calling him out.

I will give Newt credit, he said he was going "nuclear" on Mitt and he successfully did more than I ever imagined. Newt might be a sociopath, but he is a very cunning sociopath. With Sarah Palin's blessing too, dude could actually pull it off. As a "family values" candidate at that.


Palin has already endorsed Gingrich.

Gingrich/Palin, 2012?
 
2012-01-26 06:58:56 PM  

heavymetal: I will give Newt credit, he said he was going "nuclear" on Mitt and he successfully did more than I ever imagined. Newt might be a sociopath, but he is a very cunning sociopath. With Sarah Palin's blessing too, dude could actually pull it off. As a "family values" candidate at that.


Newt could get caught in a devil's threeway with HD footage watermarked from a top network and still somehow convince the teatards that he was in fact being framed by the RINOs within the party and that doubters were gay commie athiests like Mittens...

/ question their loyalty and all that...
 
2012-01-26 06:59:53 PM  

I Said: I love this primary season

The best way this ends:

Romney loses, after all the money he spent, AND gets a 30% or more tax rate for his troubles

Newt is so battered that Obama beats him with enough popularity to carry big dem wins in the House and Senate

Dems take House and Super Majority in Senate again

This time they actually unify


Nothing can stop them now! Nothing. Unless...

i226.photobucket.com

/Hello, all you happy people.
 
2012-01-26 07:03:40 PM  

culebra: [i276.photobucket.com image 480x348]

Newt's momentum has stalled and he's desperate to get it back on track. Unfortunately for him, South Carolina looks like something of an anomaly. Sure, he could swing it back in his favor, but it's more likely that he overplays his hand. That's because, after watching Newt's antics over the last two decades, two things are clear. One: Newt Gingrich is genuinely sociopathic. Two: Newt Gingrich is a farkup because he is blinded to his own shortcomings (see One).

I know, I know...he has wealthy backers, the primaries are unpredictable, Mitt Romney is basically just as lame...but trust me on this-Newt loses Florida. This is coming from a guy who would love to see Newt get shredded in the general, but one has to be realistic.

Graphic courtesy of 538.com (new window)


Nationally, Newt has opened up a lead. And Newt's demonstrated "ceiling" is much higher than Romney's.

i44.tinypic.com">

What's more, nationally, Romney's trajectory is decidedly down. His aura of inevitability is pierced. Obama came in third in New Hampshire, and still won. Gingrich will, at the least place a solid second in Florida. This race is still wide open.
 
2012-01-26 07:05:05 PM  

jackthezomber: Grand_Moff_Joseph: jackthezomber: Grand_Moff_Joseph: jackthezomber: pwhp_67: Aren't you one of the idiots who said we were "terrified" of Palin?

How'd that one work out for ya?

that race was mccain's to lose. palin did her part, mccain didn't draw in the independents.

OK, now you've stopped trying entirely. That's too absurd to even try to refute.

i love when i've argued a lib to a standstill. they always try to deflect by accusing me of absurdity.

Truth hurts.

So you admit that you've been argued to a standstill? I'll accept your apology whenever you're ready.


I'm not sure what I need to apologize for. I simply refused to continue to entertain your vapid trolling by responding with the facts/charts needed to completely destroy your assertion that 2008 was McCain's to lose.

But I tell you what, I'll give you one more shot. Produce empirical, unbiased evidence that 2008 really was McCain's to lose, with or without Palin. We'll all wait here.
 
2012-01-26 07:08:00 PM  

clambam: Far be it from me to give advice to a republican, but Mitt's reply should be "You are a liar, you have always been a liar, you are lying right now, everything that comes out of your mouth is a lie including the words 'and' and 'the,'you should have gone to jail for what you did to earn a House censure, you have always put your own interests ahead of both party and country and you're doing so now, you will surely burn in hell for what you did to your first two wives, see you at the polls."


Sad thing is, I could see Rick Santorum saying that, but Romney would just smile while looking both disdainful and nervous.

Somebody really needs to tell Gingrich off in public. The persecuted-by-the-left act reminds me of an alcoholic justifying going on another bender.
 
2012-01-26 07:08:12 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: jackthezomber: Grand_Moff_Joseph: jackthezomber: Grand_Moff_Joseph: jackthezomber: pwhp_67: Aren't you one of the idiots who said we were "terrified" of Palin?

How'd that one work out for ya?

that race was mccain's to lose. palin did her part, mccain didn't draw in the independents.

OK, now you've stopped trying entirely. That's too absurd to even try to refute.

i love when i've argued a lib to a standstill. they always try to deflect by accusing me of absurdity.

Truth hurts.

So you admit that you've been argued to a standstill? I'll accept your apology whenever you're ready.

I'm not sure what I need to apologize for. I simply refused to continue to entertain your vapid trolling by responding with the facts/charts needed to completely destroy your assertion that 2008 was McCain's to lose.

But I tell you what, I'll give you one more shot. Produce empirical, unbiased evidence that 2008 really was McCain's to lose, with or without Palin. We'll all wait here.


you think I'm your monkey? palin brought the base, mccain was supposed to bring the middle. what's so complicated about this???
 
2012-01-26 07:11:25 PM  

bugontherug: Nationally, Newt has opened up a lead.


Appealing to national numbers at the beginning of the primaries is foolhardy at best. If Newt doesn't win Florida, where he currently trails, his road to the nomination is severely impinged. He'll win Georgia and probably Texas, but his current support is colored by his performance in the deep south.It will dissipate as the GOP coalesces around Romney. The primaries are more of a "one step at a time" kind of thing.

I don't think it's wrong to believe that Newt will prevail. I just think it's the wrong prediction. Romney's ceiling may be pretty low but Gingrich's floor is literally abysmal. He's about to take the plunge, once again.
 
2012-01-26 07:17:27 PM  
Goldman isn't a private bank home lender.
 
2012-01-26 07:20:33 PM  

culebra: Appealing to national numbers at the beginning of the primaries is foolhardy at best. If Newt doesn't win Florida, where he currently trails, his road to the nomination is severely impinged. He'll win Georgia and probably Texas, but his current support is colored by his performance in the deep south.It will dissipate as the GOP coalesces around Romney. The primaries are more of a "one step at a time" kind of thing.


Thing is, GOP support is no longer coalescing around Romney. It's doing the opposite, since Newt made him bleed in South Carolina.

Newt doesn't need to win Florida, since he's viewed as the underdog--like Obama in New Hampshire in 2008. All he needs to do to stay alive is finish a strong second.
 
2012-01-26 07:26:04 PM  

chuggernaught: thamike: Knara: When you're debating serious topics

Let me know when the Republicans start doing this.

Gay marriage is serious! It could destroy American families in an unspecified and never mentioned way!


The question on America's mind is "is our children smoking homosexual?"
 
2012-01-26 07:27:20 PM  

bugontherug: culebra: Appealing to national numbers at the beginning of the primaries is foolhardy at best. If Newt doesn't win Florida, where he currently trails, his road to the nomination is severely impinged. He'll win Georgia and probably Texas, but his current support is colored by his performance in the deep south.It will dissipate as the GOP coalesces around Romney. The primaries are more of a "one step at a time" kind of thing.

Thing is, GOP support is no longer coalescing around Romney. It's doing the opposite, since Newt made him bleed in South Carolina.

Newt doesn't need to win Florida, since he's viewed as the underdog--like Obama in New Hampshire in 2008. All he needs to do to stay alive is finish a strong second.


Ehhh, not really. Take a look at that 538 article posted today. Support for Newt is starting wane. And putting Newt on the ticket in the general is suicide for whoever is on top of the ticket.
 
2012-01-26 07:27:23 PM  
This is what it's all about, right here--establishment elites vs. the people:

"Many of you have probably noticed a number of attack ads and all sorts of junk, and that's what it is," Gingrich told a crowd in Mount Dora. "This is the desperate last stand of the old order throwing the kitchen sink, hoping something sticks."

They're trying to "drown us in enough mud, raised with money from companies and people who foreclosed on Floridians," Gingrich claimed. "Remember the Republican establishment is just as much as an establishment as the Democratic establishment, and they are just as determined to stop us. ... This is a campaign for the very nature of the Republican Party and the very opportunity for a citizen conservatism to defeat the power of money and to prove that people matter more than Wall Street."
 
2012-01-26 07:28:57 PM  

Knara: Ehhh, not really. Take a look at that 538 article posted today. Support for Newt is starting wane. And putting Newt on the ticket in the general is suicide for whoever is on top of the ticket.


Support for Romney started to wane a week ago, and is still waning--sharply.
 
2012-01-26 07:30:09 PM  

bugontherug: This is what it's all about, right here--establishment elites vs. the people:


In what world is Gingrich not an establishment Repub?
 
2012-01-26 07:37:07 PM  
I think Newt-mentum can give him the GOP nod in Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Oklahoma, Tennessee, West Virginia and you know he carries Georgia. I want Newt to win the nomination. I'm jaded, but I don't think you fully appreciate the power of blind ignorance, hate , racism and lapses of reality that make up the conservative voting block of the bible belt and particularly here in the confederacy. Even with the 'help' from the left, Newt has been a Teflon Don so far with the base. He will definitely get the fallout votes once Ron Paul fanatics pack it in. Every network including Fox and far more GOP and right wing talking heads & political pundits have been telling us to 'stick a fork in' Newt because he is so done and Romney will eventually get the nod. The handlers just can't get their dogs to let go of the red meat that is Newt Gingrich! Again, I don't mind he wins, I see this as a plus for Fartbongo. Some of you may be mistaken, that the right wing 'trolls' are some kind of rare, unique minority. I see them and work by them every farking day.

motherjones.com

To divinity and beyond!
 
2012-01-26 07:38:24 PM  

bugontherug: Thing is, GOP support is no longer coalescing around Romney.


This is a predictable pattern that has repeated itself throughout the primaries. The base gets enamored of someone besides Romney, they flail, and there's Mitt: waiting with arms wide open. They'll come crawling back when they realize what the score is.

bugontherug: Newt doesn't need to win Florida,


I disagree. Newt is going to have a hell of a time winning outside of the south and nothing so far in the primaries/caucuses that have already happened indicates otherwise. What combination of wins do you envision as giving Gingrich enough delegates to win? Yeah, yeah, the delegate award process isn't set in stone, but just in a purely mathematical context, what combination of wins do you think delivers the nomination to Gingrich? It's one thing to say he "leads nationally". It's quite another to describe how he will actually prevail. Unless he sweeps Florida, California and Texas, it's highly unlikely. He'll almost certainly take Georgia and Alabama, which have winner take all and (somewhat) proportional delegate award systems, respectively. Texas hasn't decided whether to go winner take all, so it could help Newt out a lot, potentially.

Until he wins outside of the south, Gingrich looks like smoke and mirrors. In the end though, we're both just extrapolating based on very little, We will have to wait and see. However, the idea that Newt can win is highly contingent on the notion that he can win outside of the deep south, which he has yet to prove.
 
2012-01-26 07:49:46 PM  

heinekenftw: bugontherug: This is what it's all about, right here--establishment elites vs. the people:

In what world is Gingrich not an establishment Repub?


In world where Dubya was a Texas a successful businessman and DC outsider; Romney was a job creator; Kerry was a coward and Obama is an out of touch elitist.
 
2012-01-26 07:50:02 PM  
Wait, I'm trying to understand this. So, Newt turned his wife into a witch? Did she get better?

Cheers.
 
2012-01-26 07:53:23 PM  
If Newt Gingrich wants to turn the GOP primaries into "I Love The '90s," I as a Democratic spectator utterly welcome it. Yes, let's have a talk about how well your government shutdown maneuver went. Let's talk about how many House seats you LOST during a midterm with an opposition President, about the ethics investigation, the $300k you were compelled to pay, the resignations you were forced into making.

Actually, getting to dust off the phrase "Contract With America" might actually be a net good move for Gingrich, as he's actually done fark-all in politics for the past 14 years.
 
2012-01-26 07:55:41 PM  

poot_rootbeer: as he's actually done fark-all in politics for the past 14 years.


Ah yes! But don't you see it makes him such an outsider! Who cares if he was balls-deep in the establishment for years and ended up being such a piece of excrement that the GOP excommunicated him! He's such a breath of fresh air!
 
2012-01-26 08:00:57 PM  

Opiate of the Lasses: what if the other guy does pull out the win? You would basically be excommunicating yourself from the party.


This is Mitt's second attempt to run for President on the GOP ticket, and he doesn't have any other political job lines up to fall back into. If he doesn't win this nomination, his political career's over anyway. Why not go for the throat?

Other than that he's a dull grinning android of a person.
 
2012-01-26 08:02:25 PM  

I Said: Single-payer healthcare is passed


Not if President Obama has anything to say about it.

"That's why our health care law relies on a reformed private market, not a Government program."
 
2012-01-26 08:12:29 PM  

Flaming Yawn: That seems a bit blunt. How about:

"Newt, no one but you seems to think the American people might be "stupid". Do you have a point to make, or are you just showing us how glibly you can string together a bunch of hot button phrases, applause lines, and half-truths in one rant?"


Much better than mine. I would like to poiint out that, although I am a registered Republican (I vote for the worst. most beatable candidate in the primaries and it's so easy to say no when they call and ask for money), I am not a republican and I sincerely hope Obama is reelected. In fact, the message the Democrats need to start getting out is "It's not enough to return Obama to the White House. He needs a Democratic control of Congress so he can put an end to obstructionist republican tactics and implement the policies you just elected him to implement."

If you live in a district with a Teabagger rep, even if you're disgusted by both parties, it behooves you get out on election day and vote the moron out of office.
 
2012-01-26 08:17:38 PM  
oh the hugemanatee
 
2012-01-26 08:27:57 PM  

culebra: Both candidates are terrible, but I don't really think we can say that Romney's negatives show up on election day when there have only been 3 contests this year. Newt won South Carolina the only way he knows how to win anything-through appeals to ignorant emotion. I don't believe this is going to work in Florida and it sure as hell isn't going to fly in Ohio or California for that matter. Newt may indeed win Texas, but it doesn't matter so much any more since that primary isn't scheduled for Super Tuesday.


When you're talking about a reflection of what the average GOP voter looks like across the nation, New Hampshire is much more of an anamoly than South Carolina is. New Hampshire is a libertarian leaning, largely socially liberal Northeastern state. They're really not indicative of most "red states" where the heart of the GOP beats.

Mitt trending up the last few days is nothing unexpected, as he has a gigantic lead and has reportedly spent $20 million dollars carpet bombing Newt in negative campaing ads in Florida. The thing is that the debates are the great equalizer, as they were in South Carolina when Romney outspent Newt 2:1 and still lost every county but two after Newt pwned him in the debates. I also don't see a way that Romney blows Newt out on Super Tuesday when the states include Georgia, Oklahoma and Tennessee. Florida has a unique mix of demographics, but the rest of the South isn't going to vote for a Mormon, moderate from Massachussets over a conservative candidate from the South. It's simply not going to happen.

All in all I think Mitt is still the favorite, but it's probably going to go the distance. I just think in the wake of the spectacle of all the anti-Mitts, people lost track of what a truly pathetic campaigner Mitt is. When it comes to bang per buck, and what he's gotten out of all the money and machinery he's had behind him in his political career and what little he has to show for it, he might be the worst politician I've seen in my lifetime. I mean, Guilianni's 2008 race was a complete debacle of wasted opportunity, but at least he has a track record in New York to stand on. Mitt always comes out as the "favorite" and underperforms time and time again.
 
2012-01-26 10:04:41 PM  

InmanRoshi: I just think in the wake of the spectacle of all the anti-Mitts, people lost track of what a truly pathetic campaigner Mitt is.


If the economy is doing well and people haven't lost their jobs due to people like Mitt Romney, then Mitt might do better. As it stands, Mitt Romney is the poster child for what's wrong with our country right now. To prove how out of touch with America he is, he decided to run for President in a year when he really, really should not have.
 
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