FARK.com: (6903855) Russia unveils fifth-generation Kalashnikov assault rifle

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		Russia unveils fifth-generation Kalashnikov assault rifle (english.pravda.ru)		114
		More: Interesting, Russia, automatic rifles, Kalashnikov assault rifles, Russian army, grenade launcher, Interfax, JSC Izhmash, generation Kalashnikov

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DanZero

2012-01-26 12:31:01 PM

scottydoesntknow

2012-01-26 12:44:11 PM

And I still don't see it being as reliable as the 47.

jbuist

2012-01-26 12:53:18 PM

scottydoesntknow: And I still don't see it being as reliable as the 47.

It's pretty much the same on the inside. The three round burst mode is the only internal change that I know of.

Everything else:
- New stock
- New sight
- Hinged dust cover
- Grenade launcher
- Charging handle on the left side

MaxxLarge

2012-01-26 12:55:23 PM

scottydoesntknow: And I still don't see it being as reliable as the 47.

I never have heard of a way
Of breaking a bloody AK.
Got sand? Then go fill it.
Got water? Won't kill it.
It still spits out murder all day.

ecmoRandomNumbers

2012-01-26 12:59:57 PM

Me likey.

But can it be dropped in the mud and still fire?

QuinnTheFetus

2012-01-26 01:07:34 PM

Can it still snipe from the hip like in CS?

/lol

8 inches

2012-01-26 01:09:21 PM

As I've said on here for the past couple of months, invest in Smith and Wesson - SWHC. The stock is going through the roof right now and should continue through the end of the year.

J. Frank Parnell

2012-01-26 01:10:08 PM

jbuist: The three round burst mode is the only internal change that I know of.

I'm not really a gun expert, but being able to use both 5,45х39 and 7,62х51 ammo seemed pretty remarkable to me.

MorePeasPlease

2012-01-26 01:10:37 PM

MaxxLarge: I never have heard of a way
Of breaking a bloody AK.
Got sand? Then go fill it.
Got water? Won't kill it.
It still spits out murder all day.

t1.gstatic.com

ChuDogg

2012-01-26 01:11:37 PM

In my experience the durability of the 47s and 74s was vastly overrated, at least the ones being used in afghanistan and iraq

taurusowner

2012-01-26 01:12:44 PM

Did they finally fix the inherent operating flaws of the design? Charging handle on the wrong side, magazines you need to pull out instead of drop free, no bolt lock-back, safety in an awkward position, Everything about the AK design required the shooter to use both hands, and change his shooting grip entirely to operate it. That is bad in a combat environment. With a design like the M4, magazines can be dropped and changed, the weapon can be charged and fired, and locked back, and the safety can be used all while keeping the shooting stance and grip the same and on target, and most of the can be done quicker and one handed.

Man On Fire

2012-01-26 01:12:54 PM

anybody got a link that isn't a badly translated pravda article?

scottydoesntknow

2012-01-26 01:13:58 PM

jbuist: scottydoesntknow: And I still don't see it being as reliable as the 47.

It's pretty much the same on the inside. The three round burst mode is the only internal change that I know of.

Everything else:
- New stock
- New sight
- Hinged dust cover
- Grenade launcher
- Charging handle on the left side

It's one more piece that can fail in the field. You know the motto: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And 47's are one of the hardest to break.

Ehh

2012-01-26 01:16:11 PM

So, hinged dust cover and Picatinny rails good, three-round burst thingee probably bad.

/when you are nearsighted or it is dark and you need a well-mounted scope to absolutely, positively waste every m-effer in the room...

Claka

2012-01-26 01:16:12 PM

Everybody will be using it until they nerf it with a patch

Shaggy_C

2012-01-26 01:19:32 PM

Designers enhanced the ergonomics of the new rifle. The controls of the weapon (the lock, the selector of the kind of fire, the clip latch, the bolt latch) became available for one hand, which a person holds the weapon with.
...
The operating rod handle of the AK-12 can be mounted either on the left or on the right, which makes the weapon comfortable for both left-handed and right-handed people.

AKIMBO AK

pute kisses like a man

2012-01-26 01:20:06 PM

taurusowner: Did they finally fix the inherent operating flaws of the design? Charging handle on the wrong side, magazines you need to pull out instead of drop free, no bolt lock-back, safety in an awkward position, Everything about the AK design required the shooter to use both hands, and change his shooting grip entirely to operate it. That is bad in a combat environment. With a design like the M4, magazines can be dropped and changed, the weapon can be charged and fired, and locked back, and the safety can be used all while keeping the shooting stance and grip the same and on target, and most of the can be done quicker and one handed.

FTA

Designers enhanced the ergonomics of the new rifle. The controls of the weapon (the lock, the selector of the kind of fire, the clip latch, the bolt latch) became available for one hand, which a person holds the weapon with...

The operating rod handle of the AK-12 can be mounted either on the left or on the right, which makes the weapon comfortable for both left-handed and right-handed people.

I think that the upgrades are all to improve the controls and ergonomics. the article also said, it's supposed to go through some more consulting people with military and other personnel to make final adjustments

/ i don't know much about guns. but i drtfa

pute kisses like a man

2012-01-26 01:22:08 PM

Shaggy_C:

AKIMBO AK

lol, we copy/pasted and redacted the same text.

jedihirsch

2012-01-26 01:22:37 PM

Not much different from the AK 100 series (101-108), and considering the poor sales of the 100 series (regular armies use 74 variants and Spetnaz uses the AK-74U or the Nikonov AN-94) , this is probably a financial loser, as no one would buy the 100 series and no one will buy this

New AK-12
world.guns.ru

Old AK 107
world.guns.ru

and the 108
world.guns.ru

And all of them have similar rates of fire, size, weight, etc. Its nothing to brag home about

JesseL

2012-01-26 01:32:39 PM

J. Frank Parnell: jbuist: The three round burst mode is the only internal change that I know of.

I'm not really a gun expert, but being able to use both 5,45х39 and 7,62х51 ammo seemed pretty remarkable to me.

You can't use both in the same gun. They have variants in both those chamberings.

petsfed1

2012-01-26 01:34:31 PM

The Russians retired the AK-47 in the 50s, so clearly they thought it was broke. Of course, the AKM (which replaced it) was mostly a manufacturing update, rather than a total weapon update. Still, the AKM was retired from frontline service in the 70s, when the Russians realized that a soldier can carry more bullets if each one weighs less, so they switched to the AK-74, which is what's still used today.

J. Frank Parnell

2012-01-26 01:41:13 PM

JesseL: You can't use both in the same gun. They have variants in both those chamberings.

Ok, i was having trouble imagining how that might work.

jafiwam

2012-01-26 01:41:52 PM

FTA:

Designers enhanced the ergonomics of the new rifle. The controls of the weapon (the lock, the selector of the kind of fire, the clip latch, the bolt latch) became available for one hand, which a person holds the weapon with.

That's too bad, that's a deal-breaker for me. I like to mount my rifles on my dick rather than holding them in my hands.

fappomatic

2012-01-26 01:42:46 PM

Looks like someone at JSC Izhmash has a satellite feed to Discovery Channel.

DirkTheDaring

2012-01-26 01:47:36 PM

It is the preferred weapon of your enemy. And it makes a distinctive sound when fired at you. So remember it.

Rickenbacker

2012-01-26 01:49:04 PM

DanZero: [www.examiner.com image 400x600]

Whew. I almost fired off an angry "that ain't right" rant before I got the joke.

/first i was_then i lol'd.jpg

mortimer_ford

2012-01-26 01:49:44 PM

ChuDogg: In my experience the durability of the 47s and 74s was vastly overrated, at least the ones being used in afghanistan and iraq

I once took two 27s and made a 54.

CeroX

2012-01-26 01:50:34 PM

jedihirsch

2012-01-26 01:53:48 PM

petsfed1: The Russians retired the AK-47 in the 50s, so clearly they thought it was broke. Of course, the AKM (which replaced it) was mostly a manufacturing update, rather than a total weapon update. Still, the AKM was retired from frontline service in the 70s, when the Russians realized that a soldier can carry more bullets if each one weighs less, so they switched to the AK-74, which is what's still used today.

No. Russia retired the 47 when the 74 came out (but some reserve units still use the 47). The AKM was an AK-47 designed for NATO ammo to give out to rebels in countries that used NATO ammo, so the commie rebels could steal ammo without worrying about resupplying from the soviets. The 74 is in several variants either 5.45x39 and 7.62x39. Some used the same AK-47 ammo and some used the new lighter round. It also had nothing to do with carrying more bullets, it had to do with 5.45 having a higher lethality rate (rips through more flesh, the same reason why NATO switched to 5.56) than a 7.62 (which has a higher knockdown rate). It was to rip through more flesh, not to carry more ammo

justanotherfarkinfarker

2012-01-26 01:54:51 PM

Too bad they can't really import them to the US. Folks here would buy em up.

Unimpressed Man

2012-01-26 02:01:51 PM

taurusowner: With a design like the M4, magazines can be dropped and changed, the weapon can be charged and fired, and locked back, and the safety can be used all while keeping the shooting stance and grip the same and on target, and most of the can be done quicker and one handed.

I concur with your criticism of the AK series rifles, but I am curious how you are going to manage charging or locking back the bolt on an M4 while you have the same shooting stance and stay on target.

/knows there are modifications that can be made for a forward charging handle
//germans think about these things during the design phase instead of biatching about it after

JesseL

2012-01-26 02:02:25 PM

ChuDogg: In my experience the durability of the 47s and 74s was vastly overrated, at least the ones being used in afghanistan and iraq

Anything beaten on by barbarians in the desert for 30+ years with no proper maintenance will start to suffer. AKs will still handle it better than most anything else.

Marine1

2012-01-26 02:03:55 PM

justanotherfarkinfarker: Too bad they can't really import them to the US. Folks here would buy em up.

Semi-auto versions are available. Nice weapons, too. Not as accurate as your run-of-the-mill AR but indestructible. When we are all gone, the next race of "intelligent" creatures on this planet will be killing each other with those things. I think the new one is butt-ugly though, and I don't really see too much that was wrong with the AK that needed fixing, at least for the kinds of armies that would buy it (not the best trained, nor the best funded).

Also, GUN PORN THREAD!

JesseL

2012-01-26 02:05:37 PM

Unimpressed Man: taurusowner: With a design like the M4, magazines can be dropped and changed, the weapon can be charged and fired, and locked back, and the safety can be used all while keeping the shooting stance and grip the same and on target, and most of the can be done quicker and one handed.

I concur with your criticism of the AK series rifles, but I am curious how you are going to manage charging or locking back the bolt on an M4 while you have the same shooting stance and stay on target.

/knows there are modifications that can be made for a forward charging handle
//germans think about these things during the design phase instead of biatching about it after

If it's empty it locks itself back. If you're doing a tac reload you don't need to lock it back.

Outside of loading the first round or running through SPORTS on a jam, you shouldn't need to use the charging handle at all.

JesseL

2012-01-26 02:07:25 PM

Marine1: Also, GUN PORN THREAD!

Cybernetic

2012-01-26 02:11:47 PM

What the hell is a "mexometer"?

Edziak

2012-01-26 02:11:52 PM

Let's hope they fixed the reliability issues.

chechcal

2012-01-26 02:12:30 PM

(click to link to animation)

It might use the balanced recoil system from the AK-107 to eliminate recoil. Basically you have two equal masses moving in opposite directions to eliminate recoil felt by the shooter.

cousndick

2012-01-26 02:13:05 PM

Impressed

tallen702

2012-01-26 02:18:47 PM

Severely disappointed. I was expecting this:
img15.imageshack.us

Flipper47465

2012-01-26 02:21:18 PM

Looks like the Russians started ordering parts from TAPCO

irishjihad

2012-01-26 02:31:13 PM

jedihirsch: petsfed1: The Russians retired the AK-47 in the 50s, so clearly they thought it was broke. Of course, the AKM (which replaced it) was mostly a manufacturing update, rather than a total weapon update. Still, the AKM was retired from frontline service in the 70s, when the Russians realized that a soldier can carry more bullets if each one weighs less, so they switched to the AK-74, which is what's still used today.

No. Russia retired the 47 when the 74 came out (but some reserve units still use the 47). The AKM was an AK-47 designed for NATO ammo to give out to rebels in countries that used NATO ammo, so the commie rebels could steal ammo without worrying about resupplying from the soviets. The 74 is in several variants either 5.45x39 and 7.62x39. Some used the same AK-47 ammo and some used the new lighter round. It also had nothing to do with carrying more bullets, it had to do with 5.45 having a higher lethality rate (rips through more flesh, the same reason why NATO switched to 5.56) than a 7.62 (which has a higher knockdown rate). It was to rip through more flesh, not to carry more ammo

Umm . . . no.

glassbottomboatcaptain

2012-01-26 02:33:40 PM

Great, more bullshiat headshots.

Unimpressed Man

2012-01-26 02:34:10 PM

JesseL: Unimpressed Man: taurusowner: With a design like the M4, magazines can be dropped and changed, the weapon can be charged and fired, and locked back, and the safety can be used all while keeping the shooting stance and grip the same and on target, and most of the can be done quicker and one handed.

I concur with your criticism of the AK series rifles, but I am curious how you are going to manage charging or locking back the bolt on an M4 while you have the same shooting stance and stay on target.

/knows there are modifications that can be made for a forward charging handle
//germans think about these things during the design phase instead of biatching about it after

If it's empty it locks itself back. If you're doing a tac reload you don't need to lock it back.

Outside of loading the first round or running through SPORTS on a jam, you shouldn't need to use the charging handle at all.

With the possible exceptions of unloading without firing every round in the rifle or changing ammunition types when you have not fired every round in the rife.

I was simply trying to point out that you cannot in fact charge the rifle or lock the bolt back while maintaining a sight picture.

/forward charge handle
//germans

dittybopper

2012-01-26 02:35:04 PM

Marine1: Also, GUN PORN THREAD!

Me with my pride and joy at the Shandaken Primitive Biathlon:

i41.tinypic.com

Here it is with The Gun That Shall Be Mine:

i54.tinypic.com

The Gun That Shall Be Mine, with its sword bayonet:

i51.tinypic.com

JesseL

2012-01-26 02:35:58 PM

irishjihad: jedihirsch: petsfed1: The Russians retired the AK-47 in the 50s, so clearly they thought it was broke. Of course, the AKM (which replaced it) was mostly a manufacturing update, rather than a total weapon update. Still, the AKM was retired from frontline service in the 70s, when the Russians realized that a soldier can carry more bullets if each one weighs less, so they switched to the AK-74, which is what's still used today.

No. Russia retired the 47 when the 74 came out (but some reserve units still use the 47). The AKM was an AK-47 designed for NATO ammo to give out to rebels in countries that used NATO ammo, so the commie rebels could steal ammo without worrying about resupplying from the soviets. The 74 is in several variants either 5.45x39 and 7.62x39. Some used the same AK-47 ammo and some used the new lighter round. It also had nothing to do with carrying more bullets, it had to do with 5.45 having a higher lethality rate (rips through more flesh, the same reason why NATO switched to 5.56) than a 7.62 (which has a higher knockdown rate). It was to rip through more flesh, not to carry more ammo

Umm . . . no.

Wow, I'm sorry I skipped that post earlier. I don't think jedihirsh could have got that more completely wrong.

Hagenhatesyouall

2012-01-26 02:37:31 PM

ChuDogg: In my experience the durability of the 47s and 74s was vastly overrated, at least the ones being used in afghanistan and iraq

Ditto.

MythDragon

2012-01-26 02:43:03 PM

J. Frank Parnell: JesseL: You can't use both in the same gun. They have variants in both those chamberings.

Ok, i was having trouble imagining how that might work.

Like this:
cache.gawkerassets.com

And those guns don't just fire the slug, it fires the whole bullet! (that's 65% more bullet right there for ya.)
/We're done here.

akula

2012-01-26 02:44:56 PM

taurusowner: Did they finally fix the inherent operating flaws of the design? Charging handle on the wrong side, magazines you need to pull out instead of drop free, no bolt lock-back, safety in an awkward position, Everything about the AK design required the shooter to use both hands, and change his shooting grip entirely to operate it. That is bad in a combat environment. With a design like the M4, magazines can be dropped and changed, the weapon can be charged and fired, and locked back, and the safety can be used all while keeping the shooting stance and grip the same and on target, and most of the can be done quicker and one handed.

A Taurus owner complaining about another gun's flaws?

Seriously, though, most of those drawbacks, and they are drawbacks, aren't as bad as you'd think. You don't pull the bag free, you use the bottom end of the fresh one to bang the mag release, then you rock in the new one (there's a reason AK mags are built like billy clubs), and then you use your off hand (if you're a righty) to reach under the gun and rack the charging handle. Granted, it's cumbersome, but you can do it right quick if you practice. A last round bolt hold open and release would help, but TFA said nothing about that. Ambi controls are apparently being introduced, which is easy enough. Same with improved sights (one of the major drawbacks to AK accuracy is crappy sights).

You're still going to have a fair amount of mass moving around in there though (even if they went with that overly complex dual mass system), and that isn't going to help long range accuracy much. But then again, you're shooting minute of opponent, not for minute of angle.

Director_Mr

2012-01-26 02:45:38 PM

justanotherfarkinfarker: Too bad they can't really import them to the US. Folks here would buy em up.

Who says they can't really import them?

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storecategory105.aspx

As long as you convert them to single shot, they're as legal as any other rifle.

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