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(Yahoo)   Fed Chairman Bernanke thinks we may need another stimulus. This reminds me of that quote about doing something over and over again expecting different results   (finance.yahoo.com) divider line 154
    More: Fail, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, Federal Reserve, federal funds rate, core inflation, inflation targeting, RBC Capital Markets, stimulus, Chairman of the Federal Reserve  
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1717 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jan 2012 at 12:12 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-26 08:57:48 AM  
Further quantitative easing isn't going to do any good when purchasing power is still too weak and uncertain market conditions don't warrant investment and expansion. Plus, banks find it more profitable to invest in speculation than to extend credit to manufacturers. That why QE1 and QE2 (about $1.2 trillion in total) have only further served to financialize the economy.
 
2012-01-26 09:11:16 AM  

Sybarite: That why QE1 and QE2 (about $1.2 trillion in total) have only further served to financialize the economy.


What does this even mean.
 
2012-01-26 09:18:55 AM  
No amount of stimulus will improve anything while fully half the lawmakers out there and a fairly alarming percentage of employers are actively working overtime to try to make sure nothing gets even a tiny bit better on Obama's watch.
 
2012-01-26 09:21:10 AM  

DamnYankees: What does this even mean.


Jesus was an extraterrestrial.
 
2012-01-26 09:24:17 AM  
If some is good, more is better right?

I think this is how Paula Dean ended up with diabutterus.
 
2012-01-26 09:24:39 AM  

Sybarite: That why QE1 and QE2 (about $1.2 trillion in total) have only further served to financialize the economy fianchet the bishop.


Sorry, Pet Peeve.
 
2012-01-26 10:26:35 AM  

Sybarite: Further quantitative easing isn't going to do any good when purchasing power is still too weak and uncertain market conditions don't warrant investment and expansion.


It's the right thing to do to help prevent deflation, which I suspect the Fed governors are seeing around the corner if they fail to act. So there's that.

//I'm shocked that people are still treating this economy like it isn't in a depression. Shocked.
 
2012-01-26 10:38:18 AM  

DamnYankees: Sybarite: That why QE1 and QE2 (about $1.2 trillion in total) have only further served to financialize the economy.

What does this even mean.


It means our entire economy is based on this:
upload.wikimedia.org

and this:
upload.wikimedia.org


Which is very, very dangerous. Just look at Italy's economy:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-01-26 11:03:44 AM  

DamnYankees: Sybarite: That why QE1 and QE2 (about $1.2 trillion in total) have only further served to financialize the economy.

What does this even mean.



Quantitative easing is just increasing the quantity of money supply or easing credit conditions in the hope of stimulating the stagnant economy. The Fed injects a per-determined quantity of money into the commercial banks in return for the purchase of their financial assets, which consist largely of government bonds. In effect, it's printing money. But what's really important is what the banks do with this injection of cash. Well, for the banks it is more profitable to buy and sell stock, bonds, securities, currencies, etc. than it is to extend credit to manufacturers. As a result, they're fueling the bubble-and-burst cycle that got us into this mess in the first place The two rounds of QE are we've seen significant bubbling in certain asset prices over the last couple of years. It has also continued to increase the inequality of wealth distribution as this asset gaming has primarily benefited the financial elites and not the rank-and-file working Americans; profits are up, but real wages and salaries aren't.
 
2012-01-26 12:16:39 PM  
Isn't Europe going through QE right now (causing our markets to go up)? Does anybody know of a public source of info that keeps up with it the same way POMO are recorded on the Fed's website, or do you have to be an insider to take advantage of it?
 
2012-01-26 12:16:40 PM  
In real terms, another stimulus isn't going to do shiat unless it comes in the form of a couple thousand dollar check sent to everyone in the country.
 
2012-01-26 12:17:05 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org

You mean that quote that's complete pseudo-intellectual bullshiat?
 
2012-01-26 12:17:36 PM  
Subby is right. We should bot try another stimulus like the last ones. We should try a REALLY BIG ONE instead.
 
2012-01-26 12:17:37 PM  
I hate that quote. Every time I saw through a board, I'm doing the same thing over and over again (pushing & pulling the saw) and yes, eventually I expect a different result: a cut board. Every time I practice a piece, I'm doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result: an improvement in how I play. Every time I run a Starcraft II challenge level again and again I'm hoping for a different result - okay, that last one might mean I'm a little crazy.
 
2012-01-26 12:18:31 PM  

Sybarite: Further quantitative easing isn't going to do any good when purchasing power is still too weak and uncertain market conditions don't warrant investment and expansion


Agreed. We need a return or the WPA.
 
2012-01-26 12:18:45 PM  
BERNANKE!
He owes me 20 bucks!

"Hey Barney"...
 
2012-01-26 12:19:40 PM  

draypresct: I hate that quote. Every time I saw through a board, I'm doing the same thing over and over again (pushing & pulling the saw) and yes, eventually I expect a different result: a cut board. Every time I practice a piece, I'm doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result: an improvement in how I play. Every time I run a Starcraft II challenge level again and again I'm hoping for a different result - okay, that last one might mean I'm a little crazy.


So you are saying, practice makes perfect.
 
2012-01-26 12:19:48 PM  

Sybarite: Plus, banks find it more profitable to invest in speculation than to extend credit to manufacturers.


We could loan money directly to manufacturers and just contract with several banks to administer the loans program for a fee, but that's apparently socialism.
 
2012-01-26 12:20:46 PM  
YAY! Another round of thievery from the Banksters.
 
2012-01-26 12:21:08 PM  

Somacandra: Sybarite: That why QE1 and QE2 (about $1.2 trillion in total) have only further served to financialize the economy fianchet the bishop tickle the dragon's tail.

Sorry, Pet Peeve.


Sorry. I really am.
 
2012-01-26 12:21:17 PM  

DrRatchet: Sybarite: Further quantitative easing isn't going to do any good when purchasing power is still too weak and uncertain market conditions don't warrant investment and expansion

Agreed. We need a return or the WPA.


THIS, but as with the original WPA it will only happen when the threat of violent revolution becomes plausible in the eyes of the elite.

/I give it two years
 
2012-01-26 12:21:22 PM  
Subby troll fail. The stimulus saved a large number of jobs. Did it save them all - hell no. Was it the most efficient way to correct the problems in the economy - hell, no. Did pumping billions and and billions into the economy do absolutely nothing like subby and his Rebublitard trolls say - hello no.
 
2012-01-26 12:22:00 PM  
QE1
and
QE2 Electric Boogaloo
 
2012-01-26 12:22:46 PM  

DrRatchet: Sybarite: Further quantitative easing isn't going to do any good when purchasing power is still too weak and uncertain market conditions don't warrant investment and expansion

Agreed. We need a return or the WPA.


Kinda seems like what we should have done in the first place. Transfer money to the lower/middle class, get something actually accomplished, and allow people to keep some dignity by viewing themselves as workers rather than dependents.

If we do another stimulus this is what it should be. Not tax cuts and handouts to big donors.

/also if we could find the money first, then spend it that would be nice. Maybe by cutting military spending, eliminating waste and unneeded programs, and raising taxes (although I think ending capital gains exemptions and removing loopholes/deductions would be better).
 
2012-01-26 12:22:50 PM  

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: //I'm shocked that people are still treating this economy like it isn't in a depression. Shocked.


They mostly do that because it is not, in fact, in a depression.
 
2012-01-26 12:23:14 PM  
If market sage Bernanke can provide a list of specific conditions under which his stimulus would be considered an abject failure of Keynesian ideas, and, if those conditions are met, that he would surrender the ludicrous idea that infinite free credit is probably not all that good of an idea, I would support his proposal.

If he is unwilling to provide those conditions, and unable to predict how markets will react to free money, then why should anyone listen to him?
 
2012-01-26 12:23:32 PM  

holybull99: Subby troll fail. The stimulus saved a large number of jobs


saved? Where? In Europe?


i lol
 
2012-01-26 12:24:32 PM  
Where's all the free stuff the Dens want to give me?
Let's all be millionaires...print more money.
 
2012-01-26 12:25:50 PM  

DamnYankees: Sybarite: That why QE1 and QE2 (about $1.2 trillion in total) have only further served to financialize the economy.

What does this even mean.


Wall Street uses QE to pull financial clout from manufacturing and production into the Wall Street Casino, by diluting the Dollar.
 
2012-01-26 12:26:51 PM  

Snarfangel: draypresct: I hate that quote. Every time I saw through a board, I'm doing the same thing over and over again (pushing & pulling the saw) and yes, eventually I expect a different result: a cut board. Every time I practice a piece, I'm doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result: an improvement in how I play. Every time I run a Starcraft II challenge level again and again I'm hoping for a different result - okay, that last one might mean I'm a little crazy.

So you are saying, practice makes perfect.


YES! Practicing the same thing again and again does not equal crazy, as the quote would have you believe.
 
2012-01-26 12:27:00 PM  

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: It's the right thing to do to help prevent deflation, which I suspect the Fed governors are seeing around the corner if they fail to act. So there's that.


Actaully, inflation has been pretty decent over the past few years (new window). I don't think that they are too worried about deflation, per se. I think that they are more concerned about the sluggish economic growth and its impact on our trillion dollar deficits.
 
2012-01-26 12:27:18 PM  

draypresct: I hate that quote. Every time I saw through a board, I'm doing the same thing over and over again (pushing & pulling the saw) and yes, eventually I expect a different result: a cut board. Every time I practice a piece, I'm doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result: an improvement in how I play. Every time I run a Starcraft II challenge level again and again I'm hoping for a different result - okay, that last one might mean I'm a little crazy.


If you are making incremental improvements each time then you aren't doing the same thing. The quote would better be applied to a saw motion with a saw that has no teeth or a musician who is not getting any better at that song and may need to try some skills excercises or something.
 
2012-01-26 12:27:50 PM  
Yes. that said quote should possess any truth requires totally unsophisticated intention, means and methods. Very simplistic, just like anyone using it, excepting submitter.

As to Sybarite's - the worm is turning. Some of the first signs - the financial sectors bonuses going down, employment inching up, home sales climbing out of their hole. Another hit on the money bong might actually be unnecessary, but in light of the the rest of the western worlds economic condition, might be a good thing.
 
2012-01-26 12:28:19 PM  
Send everyone 300K. That should do it.
 
2012-01-26 12:29:19 PM  

IrateShadow: In real terms, another stimulus isn't going to do shiat unless it comes in the form of a couple thousand dollar check sent to everyone in the country.




at this point I would take $314, and a coupon to Hoss's
 
2012-01-26 12:29:23 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-01-26 12:31:01 PM  

EnviroDude: holybull99: Subby troll fail. The stimulus saved a large number of jobs

saved? Where? In Europe?


i lol


Not Europe, China.
 
2012-01-26 12:31:24 PM  

IrateShadow: In real terms, another stimulus isn't going to do shiat unless it comes in the form of a couple thousand dollar check sent to everyone in the country.


Or have it be the size of the World War 2 spending, without the majority of the production not going into bombs, bullets, and tanks, but things that improve life here at home, like roads, the electrical grid, and other infrastructure.
 
2012-01-26 12:31:52 PM  
You've hit that nail 3 times already. Do you really think another hit will make a difference?

/if at first you don't succeed, just insane
//nitwits
 
2012-01-26 12:35:15 PM  

netcentric: IrateShadow: In real terms, another stimulus isn't going to do shiat unless it comes in the form of a couple thousand dollar check sent to everyone in the country.



at this point I would take $314, and a coupon to Hoss's


At least Bush gave money to the people. He is more Dem than Obama.
 
2012-01-26 12:35:33 PM  

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: Sybarite: Further quantitative easing isn't going to do any good when purchasing power is still too weak and uncertain market conditions don't warrant investment and expansion.

It's the right thing to do to help prevent deflation, which I suspect the Fed governors are seeing around the corner if they fail to act. So there's that.

//I'm shocked that people are still treating this economy like it isn't in a depression. Shocked.


I'm not an economist, but I think this is correct. I doubt another stimulus is going to fix anything, but thanks to the way the first was handled and the (lack) of response from industry and the banks, I'm willing to believe another one is probably going to be needed to keep what we've got faltering along course without dipping back down. The real answer has to come from the various manufacturers and economic institutions themselves, but they'd rather eek another couple of years of profit than retool or change policy for the longer haul. Sadly, people are just going to harp about it not 'fixing' anything and consider it a waste of their hard-earned tax-payer money.
 
2012-01-26 12:35:58 PM  

HeadLever: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: It's the right thing to do to help prevent deflation, which I suspect the Fed governors are seeing around the corner if they fail to act. So there's that.

Actaully, inflation has been pretty decent over the past few years (new window). I don't think that they are too worried about deflation, per se. I think that they are more concerned about the sluggish economic growth and its impact on our trillion dollar deficits.


Inflation has been decent because of the QE's. You see that dip on '09? Thats bad. Imagine what would happen to the markets if hiding your money under the matress (or in a safe if you are a bank) is better than investing in economic growth.
 
2012-01-26 12:36:20 PM  
Yeah! At least two more years (and likely 4 more years) of printing worthless currency and keeping 0% interest rates so banks can get cheap money to loan to Wall Street and the 'job creators'. Thank you supply-side Jesus that hedge funds, Forex currency changers, and commodity speculators can drive up prices and present phony-ass inflation indexes to keep us in I-phones and I-pads. Never mind a stagnant economy that that punishes savings and rewards over-spending. Yeah! America! How bout' instead of forwarding that next "Fartbongo is a n*bong" email, you stupid motherfarkers look at the giant cities and projects being built in China who are enjoying an 8% GDP! Or that the Euro which was originally valued at about 77 cents (USD) is now $1.30. Or Australian dollar is now equivalent to or surpasses the US dollar. (Same as the Canadian dollar)

Well I guess as soon as we can get to QE3 or Germany finally caves in to less than one per cent interest, the better off we'll all be. One of the guests on CNBC (which is sure sounding more and more like Fox News lately BTW) said we are basically just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic after it hit the iceberg. ... his segment seemed to have little comment from desk anchors and certainly was noticeably shorter than the other guests being interviewed at DAVOS!
 
2012-01-26 12:36:47 PM  
Mindset of U.S. Congress since 2001

1) Economy not doing as well as desired
2) No problem, borrow money.
3) Oh no, lots of old industries that pay our election money are threatened by new technology, like art and software!
4) Lets make forms of communication illegal to combat this problem, ignore those small businesses, they are pirates.
5) Hrm, the economy is worse now, LETS BORROW MORE!
6) Go to 1
 
2012-01-26 12:38:46 PM  

plcow: draypresct: I hate that quote. Every time I saw through a board, I'm doing the same thing over and over again (pushing & pulling the saw) and yes, eventually I expect a different result: a cut board. Every time I practice a piece, I'm doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result: an improvement in how I play. Every time I run a Starcraft II challenge level again and again I'm hoping for a different result - okay, that last one might mean I'm a little crazy.

If you are making incremental improvements each time then you aren't doing the same thing. The quote would better be applied to a saw motion with a saw that has no teeth or a musician who is not getting any better at that song and may need to try some skills excercises or something.


You're inserting conditions that aren't in the quote. The quote: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Your version "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again under the same conditions and experiencing no incremental improvement etc. and expecting different results"

The original quote applies to practicing, working out, sawing (yes, using a saw with teeth). It applies to anything where your actions are the same each time yet you expect a different result. It's an excuse to quit.

/Can you tell I have snarky kids who have tried using this?
//Can't imagine where they got it from.
 
2012-01-26 12:39:41 PM  
Printing more money obviously does not manipulate prices on any real basis (especially long-term), and the FRB knows the inflation/deflation threat is minimal at best. Additionally, printing money and releasing it into the system through the banks in exchange for tiny interest rates - risk free or garbage assets only helps the banks bottom lines and does nothing for the overall economy except to fluctuate minor currency changes/prices.
Last I heard the US economy was still mostly consumer driven, and much so by the lower and middle class spending.
So how do you make an effective stimulus, perhaps putting money into the hands of those that drive the economy, like the poor and middle class who will spend it on crap, as opposed to the wealthy who will hoard it or put it in the market.
So this is another stealth bank bailout.
Thanks Ben,thank you so much.
 
2012-01-26 12:40:39 PM  

Big Man On Campus: Mindset of U.S. Congress since 2001

1) Economy not doing as well as desired
2) No problem, borrow money.
3) Oh no, lots of old industries that pay our election money are threatened by new technology, like art and software!
4) Lets make forms of communication illegal to combat this problem, ignore those small businesses, they are pirates.
5) Hrm, the economy is worse now, LETS BORROW MORE!
6) Go to 1


You forgot
"But...TERRORISTS!"
 
2012-01-26 12:42:02 PM  
That the Fed wants it should be enough to let us know that we should oppose it.
 
2012-01-26 12:42:06 PM  

IrateShadow: In real terms, another stimulus isn't going to do shiat unless it comes in the form of a couple thousand dollar check sent to everyone in the country.


Settle down, comrade. Just handing over money to regular people is socialism, and socialism is the evilest thing on the planet. What we need to do is hand over massive amounts of money to the Job Creators (blessed be their name) and allow them to loan that money back to the government for a profit. That's how free market capitalism works. I wouldn't expect a smelly hippie like you to understand. You just want to sit around in your drum circle and have the government hand you a check. You want free government money? Get a bank charter. Until then, STFD and STFU. I'd say GBTW, but we all know that freeloaders like you don't actually have jobs.
 
2012-01-26 12:43:34 PM  

DamnYankees: Sybarite: That why QE1 and QE2 (about $1.2 trillion in total) have only further served to financialize the economy.

What does this even mean.


1st and 2nd (previous) rounds of Quantitative Easing (stimulus packages) have resulted in growth in the financial sector of the US markets, but not in the (arguably more important) manufacturing and services sectors.
 
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