unlikely: Or at least make sure I'm in the right thread

(hug)

Over/Under 75 errors for Cabrera at 3B this year?

Oooh, oooh, let me manage a team in the AL Central! "Alright boys, tonight we're playing the Tigers. Hit the ball on he ground down the third base line. Done and done, I'll be at the bar."

Still early, and this is all speculation, but...

I think Cabby and Fielder are going to split 1b/DH duty. It really depends on how well Cabby can actually play 3b these days. it's unlikely he'll outperform Inge defensively, and he does have more range than most people give him credit for, but I just don't see it working out for him there. Verlander said on an ESPN interview earlier today that the team can compensate for having too much talent. I can't help but agree with that. They'll figure something out. The Verlander/Fister combo, on top of the offensive capabilities, is going to be a scary team. It's hard to see any team winning the AL central other than the Tigers.

rag819: Over/Under 75 errors for Cabrera at 3B this year?

Oooh, oooh, let me manage a team in the AL Central! "Alright boys, tonight we're playing the Tigers. Hit the ball on he ground down the third base line. Done and done, I'll be at the bar."

And yet they're still the favorites in the division. God, I wish my team's division were easier.

/NL East.

Miggy is a third basemen by trade. This year he will likely rotate between 1B/DH/3B, as long as he is dedicated to getting in shape he should be fine.

Go Tribe!

TheNyquilKid: Miggy is a third basemen by trade. This year he will likely rotate between 1B/DH/3B, as long as he is dedicated to getting in shape he should be fine.


Yup, I found your problem right here.

Miggy needs to stay off the booze first.

Maybe he should take the LenDale White diet (new window).

Damn it...Why can't Inge just hit .260?

Get those bowlin balls rollin detroit

build those championships by top dollaring the fat asses

now that done mean de fattie can't excel in baseball like deydo in football

I spose its the money

if they were kids I'd notice, but wouldn't comment

The Tigers made a colossal mistake of gigantic historical proportions. My carefully constructed sabermetrics and statistical outlay portray a rapid decline in Prince Fielder's production over the duration of this contract. I've got nothing against y'all in Detroit bit y'all done farked up on this albatros of a deal.

I think they are trying to build a defense that can't allow a ball to escape the infield.

Baseball's first gravity defense.

Leyland's not an idiot, one of those guys will be the full-time DH by May 1. And he won't be happy about it. Just wait until Martinez gets back, then it gets interesting.

Close2TheEdge: Can somebody explain to me how the Detroit Tigers are not a small market team and can afford huge contracts like this? DO they really draw that much at Comerica Park? Isn't the city, like 1/3 the size it orginally was?

The metro-Detroit area (suburbs) actually has some of the wealthiest areas in this country. While the city of Detroit may be a stinking cesspool of scum and villany, the 'burbs surrounding it are full of middle-class, upper-middle-class, and plain filthy rich people that love Detroit sports teams. How else do you explain the Lions selling out every home game during a season where they didn't win a single one?

I grew up in those suburbs, and although I left years ago, I still have family all over the area. Most people that live in the 'burbs harbor a secret love for the city of Detroit and want to see it prosper again, and gladly spend their money on the only positive things to come out of Detroit: the Wings, Tigers, Lions, and Pistons.

Close2TheEdge: Can somebody explain to me how the Detroit Tigers are not a small market team and can afford huge contracts like this? DO they really draw that much at Comerica Park? Isn't the city, like 1/3 the size it orginally was?

Detroit is not a small market team. The "market" is larger than just the Detroit dma, it's the entire state.

And their attendance has been pretty solid over the past few years. I had season tickets a few years ago and weeknight games would be packed...

And don't forget that when hockey season ends, the redwing fans have no other place to get Labatt tall boys for $8.75, so they sit out in Kaline's corner wearing their datsyuk jerseys.

Close2TheEdge: Can somebody explain to me how the Detroit Tigers are not a small market team and can afford huge contracts like this? DO they really draw that much at Comerica Park? Isn't the city, like 1/3 the size it orginally was?

There's at least 5 million people within an a 90-minute drive of downtown Detroit. Another 3 or 4 million in the rest of the lower peninsula. Not exactly NYC, but big enough.

wxboy: There's at least 5 million people within an a 90-minute drive of downtown Detroit. Another 3 or 4 million in the rest of the lower peninsula. Not exactly NYC, but big enough.

And you'd be suprised at how many people in and around Windsor, Ontario go to see games. I was in Windsor a year ago and there was Tigers jerseys everywhere.

jakomo002: wxboy: There's at least 5 million people within an a 90-minute drive of downtown Detroit. Another 3 or 4 million in the rest of the lower peninsula. Not exactly NYC, but big enough.

And you'd be suprised at how many people in and around Windsor, Ontario go to see games. I was in Windsor a year ago and there was Tigers jerseys everywhere.

This. I had a teacher from Windsor who was a huge Detroit Red Wings/Tigers/Lions fan, and she said everybody else was, too. Toronto is too far for them.

TheNyquilKid: Miggy is a third basemen by trade. This year he will likely rotate between 1B/DH/3B, as long as he is dedicated to getting in shape he should be fine.

It looks like he's putting in a good effort to get there:



Link (new window)

The Tigers offense is going to be farking unstoppable in 2013 when V Mart is healthy.

Close2TheEdge: Can somebody explain to me how the Detroit Tigers are not a small market team and can afford huge contracts like this? DO they really draw that much at Comerica Park? Isn't the city, like 1/3 the size it orginally was?

What else is there to do in Michigan? There's beautiful lakes and crippling depression. Odds are it's a lot like, say, Green Bay: Everyone is in to the Lions/Tigers/etc

As for Fielder/Cabrera, just put one at DH, preferrably Fielder(I think he's the worse fielder?). Hell, if you think Inge sucks that bad that you're willing to lose runs compared to just DHing one of them and playing Cabrera @ 3rd in NL parks/when someone really needs a rest, don't you have a 3rd base prospect or something you can at least try there?

It's balanced alright. Both guys on the corners have gloves made of concrete.

Gonz: rag819: Over/Under 75 errors for Cabrera at 3B this year?

Oooh, oooh, let me manage a team in the AL Central! "Alright boys, tonight we're playing the Tigers. Hit the ball on he ground down the third base line. Done and done, I'll be at the bar."

"Oh, and figure out a way to score about 17 runs, because that beer-league softball team is gonna hit about 10 homers tonight."

Seriously- they're like a run-and-gun football team. The defense sucks? So what? Unless you can score like a basketball team, you're in trouble.

Bunt down the 3B/1B lines all night? Homers aren't the only way to score in baseball you know.

Also, this is NOT like ANY type of football because there is a major fundamental difference. Baseball players all play offense and defense (except AL pitchers/DH's) so it is important for each individual to be balanced. Football each player specializes in one or the other, so you don't have to worry if your Big Name Free Agent RB can also play shutdown man-coverage.

The fact is that for the first time since 2006 the Tigers will have a 3rd baseman who will hit above .220. Defensively Inge has a .961 fielding percentage while Cabrera had .951, granted at 1st. Bunting situation will still scare the bejesus out of me.

teknophile4385: TheNyquilKid: Miggy is a third basemen by trade. This year he will likely rotate between 1B/DH/3B, as long as he is dedicated to getting in shape he should be fine.

It looks like he's putting in a good effort to get there:

[i.imgur.com image 306x410]

Link (new window)

That is him SLIM? He still looks like a ham

Pratty: As for Fielder/Cabrera, just put one at DH, preferrably Fielder(I think he's the worse fielder?).

The problem, of course, is getting someone to agree to DH. There's a reason why you only have a handful of great career DHers(or near enough) like Martinez and Ortiz. Hell, Garret Anderson wasn't a particularly good fielder and not the best hitter, but he put up a huge stink every time he DHed(and he hit better when he played the field). Adam Dunn has done the same. Players have pride, and being a DH when you're not old and busted like Frank Thomas and Jim Thome were/are at the time they DHed hurts their pride.

Close2TheEdge: Can somebody explain to me how the Detroit Tigers are not a small market team and can afford huge contracts like this? DO they really draw that much at Comerica Park? Isn't the city, like 1/3 the size it orginally was?

Most of the other people who have replied to you are correct, but one other thing to remember: Mike Illitch, who owns the Tigers, also owns the Red Wings. Having a hockey team that prints money gives you more to spend on your baseball team.

Hmm... Inge's .197/.263/.283 "offense" and average, obscenely overrated defense... or Cabrera's .344/.448/.586 and below average defense?

Yeah, something tells me that the fact that Cabrera's batting average is 60 points higher than Inge's SLUGGING PERCENTAGE means this will be a net win for the Tigers...

Pratty: What else is there to do in Michigan?

Never been to Michigan, have you?

Miguel looks good. I have no worries now.

Close2TheEdge: Can somebody explain to me how the Detroit Tigers are not a small market team and can afford huge contracts like this? DO they really draw that much at Comerica Park? Isn't the city, like 1/3 the size it orginally was?

This chart is from baseball-almanac.com using 2000 census data, but it cannot be too off. The Tigers are 8 of 30, not small market at all. I would think small market really starts at Minnesota and down. I am extremely delighted in how successful the Brewers have been recently, given their market size.

Markets of more than 10 million people
--------------------------------------------------------

21,199,865 New York Mets, New York Yankees
16,373,645 Los Angeles Angels, Los Angeles Dodgers

Markets of 5-10 million people
--------------------------------------------------------

9,157,540 Chicago Cubs, Chicago White Sox
7,608,070 Baltimore Orioles, Washington Nationals
7,039,362 Oakland Athletics, San Francisco Giants
6,188,463 Philadelphia Phillies
5,819,100 Boston Red Sox
5,456,428 Detroit Tigers
5,221,801 Texas Rangers

Markets of 3-5 million people
--------------------------------------------------------

4,682,897 Toronto Blue Jays
4,669,571 Houston Astros
4,112,198 Atlanta Braves
3,878,380 Florida Marlins
3,554,760 Seattle Mariners
3,251,876 Arizona Diamondbacks

Markets of 2-3 million people
--------------------------------------------------------

2,968,806 Minnesota Twins
2,945,831 Cleveland Indians
2,813,833 San Diego Padres
2,603,607 St Louis Cardinals
2,581,506 Colorado Rockies
2,395,997 Tampa Bay Devil Rays
2,358,695 Pittsburgh Pirates

Markets of 1-2 million people
--------------------------------------------------------

1,979,202 Cincinnati Reds
1,776,062 Kansas City Royals
1,689,572 Milwaukee Brewers

Ow My Balls: Damn it...Why can't Inge just hit .260?

Inge ain't the 3rd sacker he used to be. Bum knees, getting older.

/Rick Porcello last seen calling a suicide prevention line after learning of Migs move to 3rd.

mc_madness: The Tigers made a colossal mistake of gigantic historical proportions. My carefully constructed sabermetrics and statistical outlay portray a rapid decline in Prince Fielder's production over the duration of this contract. I've got nothing against y'all in Detroit bit y'all done farked up on this albatros of a deal.

I didn't do ANY analysis, and I wholeheartedly concur. Fielder wouldn't be the first guy to completely tank on a big money, long term guaranteed contract.

9beers: Pratty: What else is there to do in Michigan?

Never been to Michigan, have you?

No, but my mom grew up there and hated it, so that tends to interfere with my views.

/My grandma loved it there though
//Hasn't lived there in a long time though

roc6783: Close2TheEdge: Can somebody explain to me how the Detroit Tigers are not a small market team and can afford huge contracts like this? DO they really draw that much at Comerica Park? Isn't the city, like 1/3 the size it orginally was?

This chart is from baseball-almanac.com using 2000 census data, but it cannot be too off. The Tigers are 8 of 30, not small market at all. I would think small market really starts at Minnesota and down. I am extremely delighted in how successful the Brewers have been recently, given their market size.

Wanna take another stab at that one?

TheNyquilKid: Miggy is a third basemen by trade

If "he used to play it" counts, then so is Jim Thome. Cabrera had 5 errors in 14 games in '08 when the Tigers last had him at 3rd base, and his range was pretty clearly below average as a full-time 3rd baseman in '07 with the Marlins. He's considerably larger and less mobile now. About the best you can really hope for out of him now is that he's not as bad as Ryan Braun was there a few years ago -- if he plays 3rd every day it will be an upset if he's not clearly the worst defender at the position in all of baseball.

This year, because they don't HAVE to put him there to get another bat in the lineup at DH, I assume they'll pick and choose the games where he plays 3rd and where he plays 1B or DH -- easier to get away with him there with Verlander or Scherzer (fly ball guys with high K-rates) starting. Porcello and Fister will probably want to wring Leyland's neck if they stick Cabrera at 3rd when they're pitching. Next year they won't have much choice because I doubt Martinez is going to catch much, if at all, at his age and coming off a major knee injury.

As opposed to figuratively tipping it over?

Fielder will become a HUGE problem for the team if he has to DH. He's a Scott Boras-represented player, and Boras knows that DH full-timers don't get as much money as their counterparts. Boras will do anything to make sure his players are the most overpayed, including counseling them to be vocal assholes or even manufacturing issues within the media.

Partner that up with Prince having an ego nearly as huge as his flabby man-titties, and I see the term "locker room cancer" being bandied about rather openly within 3 years.

Given that he's essentially untradeable (unless there's some sort of opt out clause for one or both parties), that means that either V-Mart or Migs will end up being either traded to free up some money or get prospects, or they'll end up leaving because they don't want to be on the same field as Lord Humongous.

Admittedly, Leyland is good at managing overpriced primadonnas, but I don't think he can handle this clusterfark long-term.

TheNyquilKid: Miggy is a third basemen by trade. This year he will likely rotate between 1B/DH/3B, as long as he is dedicated to getting in shape he should be fine.

You might want to tap the brakes there, just a little bit.

Cabrera was 20th out of 22 qualifying Major League third basemen in....

wait for it....

wait for it...

2007 .

We're a long way from '07 and saying he's a 3rd baseman by trade is a mighty big stretch these days. He doesn't even look like the same player as he did when he was at 3rd in Florida.

I think Detroit has some problems; some good to have & some not so good to have.

Adding Fielder definitely makes an already strong line-up even better, but forces them to find a fit, which isn't necessarily a bad problem to have.

As you said, Cabrera will probably split time at 3B/1B/DH. The problem is, Cabrera simply isn't a good defensive player, regardless of position. If it doesn't work out, you may very well see him in LF. He's played there before. They have some options at 3rd with Inge & Kelly if Cabrera stinks it up, but it significantly weakens their line-up with the two hitting .197 and .245, respectively. Their best bet is to hope like hell that Cabrera can handle 3rd until Castellanos is ready to come up. It sorta comes down to how what weight Cabrera can hit and field at, and be comfortable. Odds are against it, but we'll have to wait and see how it all shakes out.

Fielder will, in all likelihood, split time at 1B/DH, but that's way too much money to pay for a player that isn't full-time at a position. Still, whether Fielder is in a position or not, Detroit will have the weakest infield in the AL by miles, from a defensive perspective.

Whether or not they can mix & match, push the right buttons and make the most of the options they do have in 2012 is the question.

Next year? Not so much for them in terms of options. Martinez will be back & they'll have to find a place for Cabrera to play. At the very least, they're going to find it really hard to trade Martinez; coming off that injury with 2 years left on his deal & they will be looking to off-load some payroll.

And now they've let The Baseball Anti-Christ into their house and have paid way too much for Fielder; a move they will definitely regret making... and sooner rather than later. Historically, Detroit carries around $100 to $110 million on the high side of things in player payroll. Now they've got about $65 million tied up in 3 players for the 2012 season. They just can't & won't sustain that. They're not the Yankees.

I see a fire-sale in the D in 2013.

Sillygoth: Fielder will become a HUGE problem for the team if he has to DH. He's a Scott Boras-represented player, and Boras knows that DH full-timers don't get as much money as their counterparts. Boras will do anything to make sure his players are the most overpayed, including counseling them to be vocal assholes or even manufacturing issues within the media

It's a 9 year deal with no opt-outs apparently (23 million for each of the first two years, 24 million per for each of the last 7). I don't think maximizing his money 9 years down the road will be much of a concern, as I'm sure Boras knows that Fielder will definitely be a DH by that time if he can still hit.

The Fielder contract is bad news for my Reds. It pretty much means they have to pony up this kind of money for Votto and I dont think they can afford to keep them, pushing them right back into mediocrity because they traded away their best first base prospect in the off season.