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(Computerworld)   Is wireless bandwidth starting to run out of ro   (computerworld.com) divider line 38
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3574 clicks; posted to Geek » on 26 Jan 2012 at 2:20 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-26 12:44:51 AM
Yes.

Well no. It's not starting.

It's been on that path for a while.
 
2012-01-26 12:59:54 AM
I mean it kind of already did once and that's why they took broadcast TV down to nice tight digital streams. And as it does so again they're just going to add towers and reduce tower footprints and all that extra will be taken up by backhaul...

I wonder if I ought to go ahead and read the article before I post all this
 
2012-01-26 01:28:49 AM
Yes, and we should all freak out and panic instead of looking at it rationally.
 
2012-01-26 02:10:14 AM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

how much bandwidth is currently allocated to radio and tv?
farkem
take the bandwidth back which we need and tell them we decided that we want to use it for free internet for the citizens.

no really
it is our bandwidth, fark em


on the other hand, what is wrong with low power and TONS more cells?
what if people had cells in their houses attached to land lines
oh never mind
 
2012-01-26 02:24:05 AM
No, cheap bandwidth for cheap radios is running out. There are lots of ways to get more data out of the airwaves, its just a matter of making more complex radios that can do the magic.
 
2012-01-26 02:24:26 AM
So... at what point do we admit capitalism failed us, the internet is an essential commodity and we ask the government to build us an internet infrastructure akin to the interstate highway system? Because I'm kinda sick of pretending we're a first world country while reading speeds places like South Korea get.
 
2012-01-26 02:40:55 AM

lennavan: So... at what point do we admit capitalism failed us, the internet is an essential commodity and we ask the government to build us an internet infrastructure akin to the interstate highway system? Because I'm kinda sick of pretending we're a first world country while reading speeds places like South Korea get.


I'm so sick of liberals complaining about capitalism: the failure so big it launched America into sole world hegemony. I know the CNNs and MSNBCs and all those other acronyms in the media brainwash you a lot so it's understandable but just TRY to think every once in a while. You envy South Korea? Really?? Have you ever BEEN to Korea? The whole place smells like fish for pete's sake. If you think that's something to emulate just keep it up buster, you'll get the government you deserve.
 
2012-01-26 02:42:18 AM
Gosh, let me think. Are we running out of room? Yes. Is the reason that programmers and designers are fairly retarded about how they utilize that space? Absolutely! Is it because all large companies create software by putting 10000 monkeys in a room and have them pound their foreheads against keyboards until they come out with some bloated piece of crap that is enormously inefficient to the point that a third grader make it several orders of magnitude more efficient? Yes, yes, yes!

That means you script kiddies and off-shore dumbf**ks.

Jeezus, you guys suck.
 
2012-01-26 02:58:12 AM
But what about fus and dah?
 
2012-01-26 03:20:45 AM
The solution is smaller cells: instead of one (relatively) high powered transceiver covering a given area, break it up into dozens of smaller areas with dozens of smaller towers with smaller transceivers.
 
2012-01-26 03:32:18 AM

Hueg_Redd: it launched America into sole world hegemony.


Every major power on the planet bombing everyone else's industrial capacity back into the Iron Age - save ours - helped somewhat. Jus' sayin.
 
2012-01-26 03:37:21 AM
It's the carriers' own damn fault for playing up all of the amazing things people would be able to do with their smartphones. In the months leading up to Verizon's 4G launch, they had a big ad campaign that told people they'd be able to stream video, download HD movies, and all sorts of other things that would have people hitting even Verizon's largest available monthly cap in a matter of hours. But it's all about short term gains. They sold a level of service they can't possibly provide, locking millions and millions [/segan] of people into multi-year contracts but, since there's no penalty to Verizon for doing this, why wouldn't they? Worst case, a few customers cancel their service and Verizon gets their $350 ETF which cover's Verizon's cost for most smartphones.
 
2012-01-26 03:51:28 AM
" which would require a costly build-out (as much as $40 billion to double capacity) of cell towers and base stations"

Which is what they should be doing a lot of.
 
2012-01-26 04:05:30 AM

jtown: It's the carriers' own damn fault for playing up all of the amazing things people would be able to do with their smartphones. In the months leading up to Verizon's 4G launch, they had a big ad campaign that told people they'd be able to stream video, download HD movies, and all sorts of other things that would have people hitting even Verizon's largest available monthly cap in a matter of hours. But it's all about short term gains. They sold a level of service they can't possibly provide, locking millions and millions [/segan] of people into multi-year contracts but, since there's no penalty to Verizon for doing this, why wouldn't they? Worst case, a few customers cancel their service and Verizon gets their $350 ETF which cover's Verizon's cost for most smartphones.


Amusingly, Sagan never actually said "billions and billions." (Well, except when he acknowledged the phrase's fame. Then he said it.)
 
2012-01-26 04:19:55 AM

Hueg_Redd: lennavan: So... at what point do we admit capitalism failed us, the internet is an essential commodity and we ask the government to build us an internet infrastructure akin to the interstate highway system? Because I'm kinda sick of pretending we're a first world country while reading speeds places like South Korea get.

I'm so sick of liberals complaining about capitalism: the failure so big it launched America into sole world hegemony. I know the CNNs and MSNBCs and all those other acronyms in the media brainwash you a lot so it's understandable but just TRY to think every once in a while. You envy South Korea? Really?? Have you ever BEEN to Korea? The whole place smells like fish for pete's sake. If you think that's something to emulate just keep it up buster, you'll get the government you deserve.


Do you wanna kill someone?
 
2012-01-26 06:18:03 AM

fisker: Do you wanna kill someone?


Of course I do. But I don't see how that's relative.

On a completely unrelated note, we should meet sometime.. to um discuss your ideas.. I've got someplace nice and secluded picked out. You know, so that our conversation can be uninterrupted.

/post meant to be menacing
//ended up sounding gay
///nttawwt
 
2012-01-26 07:31:09 AM
wait, bandwidth is a limited resource, who knew?

personalpages.manchester.ac.uk
 
2012-01-26 08:08:17 AM
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-01-26 08:09:18 AM

Hueg_Redd: the failure so big it launched America into sole world hegemony


That is a complete and utter misunderstading of history and the geopolitics of US ascendancy in the 20th century- an ascendancy that has transitioned into a decline at this point. Further, as the original poster failed to point out, "capitalism" did not build the phone networks or the electrical grid- the government did. The market was not meeting the needs of the public, so the government stepped in to satisfy them.

rosebud_the_sled: Is the reason that programmers and designers are fairly retarded about how they utilize that space? Absolutely!


Actually, they tend to be pretty smart. Here's the thing: I could spend months of my life optimizing my network calls to minimize traffic and shrink packet sizes. Or, I can let a high-level API do the work for me, and accept a certain level of inefficiency. Programmer time is vastly more valuable than processor time, RAM or network bandwidth. Users demand more of applications- we could make everything frighteningly efficient if we ditched GUIs. It's easier to develop for too.
 
2012-01-26 08:12:36 AM

asciibaron: wait, bandwidth is a limited resource, who knew?

[personalpages.manchester.ac.uk image 560x415]


Me. What we should do is make all those whining about the lack of space learn Morse. You can fit roughly 80,000 Morse signals in the same bandwidth as a single 802.11b/g/n channel. That would leave us with *PLENTY* of bandwidth.
 
2012-01-26 08:15:33 AM
While I was reading that I couldn't help but think the author of that article was paid by a large mobile carrier to write it. Injecting fear into the market makes it easier to turn a profit than actual innovation.
 
2012-01-26 08:22:03 AM

scapes23: While I was reading that I couldn't help but think the author of that article was paid by a large mobile carrier to write it.


There was a Fake Steve Jobs post recounting a call between FSJ and an AT&T exec, and it basically was FSJ's saying, "I've given you a gift- people are lining up around the block to use your product! You can build out your networks and get guaranteed returns on this. What the hell's the problem?" and the AT&T exec pointing out, "That will do nothing for our quarterly numbers."

You read through that article, and while it's got a tone of fear, all I see is opportunity. The genie is out of the bottle- people are hooked on the Internet, and they're going to want that Internet through a mobile service. And they're lining up to pay for it. Don't biatch and moan that you're just too damn successful- go out there and build capacity because you're going to be able to sell it!
 
2012-01-26 08:29:28 AM

t3knomanser: rosebud_the_sled: Is the reason that programmers and designers are fairly retarded about how they utilize that space? Absolutely!

Actually, they tend to be pretty smart. Here's the thing: I could spend months of my life optimizing my network calls to minimize traffic and shrink packet sizes. Or, I can let a high-level API do the work for me, and accept a certain level of inefficiency. Programmer time is vastly more valuable than processor time, RAM or network bandwidth. Users demand more of applications- we could make everything frighteningly efficient if we ditched GUIs. It's easier to develop for too.


I would actually say that it isn't necessarily the programmers and designers, but the people who want to get an actual marketable product in a reasonable time, or want an application written within a reasonable amount of time.

I could spend much of my time optimizing the stuff I write*, but spending hours to get a few extra fractions of a second, or at most a handful of seconds, quicker processing time just isn't worth it, and often I'm limited by the I/O bottlenecks anyway, so it just doesn't make sense unless there is some pressing reason for it. I can't spend too much time on any one project, as I have other things always waiting in the wings. If I don't get to those projects in a reasonable amount of time, the people asking for them won't care that I spent time writing the most efficient software for other people amd/or departments.

That's just the reality of the situation. Back when I was programming for fun, I could spend forever tweaking my software. I can't do that when I've got project deadlines set by outside forces.

*Sometimes I wish I could spend more time optimizing it, too.
 
2012-01-26 08:36:59 AM

DON.MAC: No, cheap bandwidth for cheap radios is running out. There are lots of ways to get more data out of the airwaves, its just a matter of making more complex radios that can do the magic.


Government enforced TV/terrestrial radio only bands are capitalism?
 
2012-01-26 08:41:25 AM

divx88: " which would require a costly build-out (as much as $40 billion to double capacity) of cell towers and base stations"

Which is what they should be doing a lot of.


Agreed. Demand only goes up, cell carriers are an outdated business model that's based on never changing, the Music Industry of tech. They have to update. Just wish there were more competition (please Google?) in the mobile internet game.
 
2012-01-26 08:59:42 AM
Oh no! The sky is falling! Quick, everyone pay 3 times as much for data! That'll fix it!
 
2012-01-26 09:17:10 AM

Hueg_Redd: lennavan: So... at what point do we admit capitalism failed us, the internet is an essential commodity and we ask the government to build us an internet infrastructure akin to the interstate highway system? Because I'm kinda sick of pretending we're a first world country while reading speeds places like South Korea get.

I'm so sick of liberals complaining about capitalism: the failure so big it launched America into sole world hegemony. I know the CNNs and MSNBCs and all those other acronyms in the media brainwash you a lot so it's understandable but just TRY to think every once in a while. You envy South Korea? Really?? Have you ever BEEN to Korea? The whole place smells like fish for pete's sake. If you think that's something to emulate just keep it up buster, you'll get the government you deserve.


Actually, my post said I envy South Korea's government built internet system.

But go ahead and pretend I wrote something else, no one else will notice that my post remains fully in tact, quoted immediately above this post.
 
2012-01-26 09:34:52 AM

Hueg_Redd: lennavan: So... at what point do we admit capitalism failed us, the internet is an essential commodity and we ask the government to build us an internet infrastructure akin to the interstate highway system? Because I'm kinda sick of pretending we're a first world country while reading speeds places like South Korea get.

I'm so sick of liberals complaining about capitalism: the failure so big it launched America into sole world hegemony. I know the CNNs and MSNBCs and all those other acronyms in the media brainwash you a lot so it's understandable but just TRY to think every once in a while. You envy South Korea? Really?? Have you ever BEEN to Korea? The whole place smells like fish for pete's sake. If you think that's something to emulate just keep it up buster, you'll get the government you deserve.


I'm so sick and tired of Conservatives bashing socialism. If they think of living under Obama as president is so "communist," then they have no idea of what living is like in places like South Korea. (Hahahah "buster")

/Sorry
//I had to feed the troll.
 
2012-01-26 09:52:35 AM

namatad: no really
it is our bandwidth, fark em


It's MY bandwidth and I need it NOW!
wmbriggs.com
 
2012-01-26 11:12:02 AM
Editor: "We need a new scarcity story."

Reporter: "How about oil?"

E: "Oil is old news. No one cares about it."

R: "Well how about cell phones and wireless. Kids love that stuff."

E: "Great! But how can we make it sound menacing?"

seriously, thisisnt a major problem. Part of the whole FCC management is to minimize signal conflict. Low power local wireless is another issue. But congestion in those bands aren't really worth considering from problem standpoint because they usually stem from user created issues.

This may shock many of you to know collisions happen all the time.
 
2012-01-26 11:15:19 AM

Cyrusv10: Hueg_Redd: lennavan: So... at what point do we admit capitalism failed us, the internet is an essential commodity and we ask the government to build us an internet infrastructure akin to the interstate highway system? Because I'm kinda sick of pretending we're a first world country while reading speeds places like South Korea get.

I'm so sick of liberals complaining about capitalism: the failure so big it launched America into sole world hegemony. I know the CNNs and MSNBCs and all those other acronyms in the media brainwash you a lot so it's understandable but just TRY to think every once in a while. You envy South Korea? Really?? Have you ever BEEN to Korea? The whole place smells like fish for pete's sake. If you think that's something to emulate just keep it up buster, you'll get the government you deserve.

I'm so sick and tired of Conservatives bashing socialism. If they think of living under Obama as president is so "communist," then they have no idea of what living is like in places like South Korea. (Hahahah "buster")

/Sorry
//I had to feed the troll.


If a liberal trying to troll conservatives only trolls other liberals... Is it a victimless troll?
 
2012-01-26 11:51:10 AM

lennavan: So... at what point do we admit capitalism failed us, the internet is an essential commodity and we ask the government to build us an internet infrastructure akin to the interstate highway system? Because I'm kinda sick of pretending we're a first world country while reading speeds places like South Korea get.


The thing is though... they did. If you tracert from somewhere in California to somewhere in New York (as far away as possible from each other but still in the same land mass) it won't go globe trotting nor will the ping time be the glacial response you'd expect when satellite and microwave towers get involved.

So it's got to be fibre yeah? Coast to coast fibre. Probably has repeaters situated within easy expansion of all those little poondock ass backwards villages that can't get broadband 'just in case' and it made sense so an engineer could drive to the repeaters and fix.

Pretty much everywhere went crazy with fibre in the 80's as it was so farking cheap. So it's there. You're just not allowed to use it and until your government does what ours did to British Telecom over things like Local Loop Unbundling you're going to get bent over.
 
2012-01-26 12:18:59 PM
Drill baby, drill.
 
2012-01-26 12:27:18 PM

lennavan: So... at what point do we admit capitalism failed us, the internet is an essential commodity and we ask the government to build us an internet infrastructure akin to the interstate highway system? Because I'm kinda sick of pretending we're a first world country while reading speeds places like South Korea get.


actually Korea is the perfect model of HOW we SHOULD have dealt with PUBLIC AIRWAVES
1) they sold the rights for CHEAP
2) they required the companies to DELIVER, timey service, no, "we are talking time to build towers bullshiat" no squatting on spectrum. use it or lose it!!
3) they required good cheap service.
4) there is LOTS of competition.
5) they are also a TINY country, area wise, about the size of indiana ....


what did we do?
1) we had bidding wars for spectrum, which led to INSANE COSTS for companies to buy the spectrum
2) some of those compnaies squatted on the spectrum or never delivered
3) the COST was passed on to the consumer
4) there were no bandwidth/costs requirements so we the consumer got screwed because the government sold the airwaves the WRONG WAY

a) competition and low cost spectrum = win for the consumer
b) no or low competition and high cost spectrum = epic fail for the consumer

why dont the cities and states own the spectrum
and sell it for cheap in extra for universal, high bandwidth, cheap service?

cause some politician got RICH sell spectrum
sigh
 
2012-01-26 07:15:42 PM
blog.tmcnet.com
Begun the bandwidth wars have.
 
2012-01-26 11:43:09 PM

Mrbogey: Cyrusv10: Hueg_Redd: lennavan: So... at what point do we admit capitalism failed us, the internet is an essential commodity and we ask the government to build us an internet infrastructure akin to the interstate highway system? Because I'm kinda sick of pretending we're a first world country while reading speeds places like South Korea get.

I'm so sick of liberals complaining about capitalism: the failure so big it launched America into sole world hegemony. I know the CNNs and MSNBCs and all those other acronyms in the media brainwash you a lot so it's understandable but just TRY to think every once in a while. You envy South Korea? Really?? Have you ever BEEN to Korea? The whole place smells like fish for pete's sake. If you think that's something to emulate just keep it up buster, you'll get the government you deserve.

I'm so sick and tired of Conservatives bashing socialism. If they think of living under Obama as president is so "communist," then they have no idea of what living is like in places like South Korea. (Hahahah "buster")

/Sorry
//I had to feed the troll.

If a liberal trying to troll conservatives only trolls other liberals... Is it a victimless troll?


No. Both cancel each other out. Haven't you seen Bill Maher? For crying out loud!
 
2012-01-27 07:57:02 AM
Looks like I got that 1000 ft spool of CAT6 just in time. $5 a foot, line starts here.
 
2012-01-27 08:47:55 PM
Personally I don't understand why people want to do all that crap on their phones anyway. Check email, surf the web, view pictures, watch a movie... all on some 2 x 3 inch screen? No thanks.
 
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