Duh. More money in the hands of the people who will spend it will create demand which creates jobs which creates more demand which creates more demand...etc etc etc...It's not that hard to understand.

Hobodeluxe: Duh. More money in the hands of the people who will spend it will create demand which creates jobs which creates more demand which creates more demand...etc etc etc...It's not that hard to understand.

Apparently it is.

Because if we pay poor people more money, then they won't have any incentive not to be poor.

GaryPDX: People are paid for their skills, not their poorness. Gawd I''m so tired of this socialist bullshiat.

Your right, of course. The people with no marketable skills (at the moment) should only be making 35cents a day in sweatshops... then it'd be PARADISE!

The biggest wage inequality is not having a wage at all. Guess what happens when you cant pay payroll? You don't sacrifice your own salary you just fire enough peeons to free up the money. Guess what happens if you raise minimum wage to $20 an hour? Suddenly businesses either go belly up or fire all but their most valuable employees.

Minimum wage isn't the problem it's PREVAILING wage. make the worker more valuable (education, low unemployment, productivity) then they are forced to pay more or have no employee.

You're, You're, You're...

/F me, I'm tired.

Roook: They'd just spend it on alcohol and drugs.

That's what I'd do.

You sound poor.

Societies fail when people who are willing to work are unable to earn enough to live. The tribe just can't survive if the chief eats everything the hunters bring back.

All the economic theories will not change this fundamental truth.

"The effects of social upheaval are often positive, Salil Shetty, secretary-general of Amnesty International pointed out."

Uh, never mind me. Just testing the filter.

Kazan:
WHERE THE fark CAN YOU LIVE ON $15080/year?

Mumbai

Kazan: Gordian Cipher: [img.sparknotes.com image 320x240]

because everything is that simple. there is no such thing as inelastic demand or undervalued product. NONE!


Tingle007: The biggest wage inequality is not having a wage at all. Guess what happens when you cant pay payroll? You don't sacrifice your own salary you just fire enough peeons to free up the money. Guess what happens if you raise minimum wage to $20 an hour? Suddenly businesses either go belly up or fire all but their most valuable employees.

Minimum wage isn't the problem it's PREVAILING wage. make the worker more valuable (education, low unemployment, productivity) then they are forced to pay more or have no employee.

A) that argument that employment goes down when minimum wage goes up has NEVER BEEN SHOWN TO HAPPEN. EVER.
B) nobody is saying make it $20/hour
C) not everyone can be educated, and not all jobs need educations. someone has to clean the toilets. should someone bust their ass 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year [yes, many people get no paid vacation] for $15080 (pretax)... that's less than my wife and I paid in taxes this year.

WHERE THE fark CAN YOU LIVE ON $15080/year?

Section 8 housing.

GaryPDX: People are paid for their skills, not their poorness. Gawd I''m so tired of this socialist bullshiat.

Most definitately. I would say certain skills that aren't worth a lot but necessary for society to function are getting the shaft. The world does in fact need ditch diggers and if those ditch diggers can't support themselves without holding down 3 jobs, there will be problems. This isn't socialism, it's trying to keep all non-engineers, doctors, investment bankers, and such from coming after all you super important highly skilled rich folk

ertdang: Your right, of course. The people with no marketable skills (at the moment) should only be making 35cents a day in sweatshops... then it'd be PARADISE!

They could dig ditches.

I am Andrew Ryan, and I'm here to ask you a question. Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? 'No!' says the man in Washington, 'It belongs to the poor.' 'No!' says the man in the Vatican, 'It belongs to God.' 'No!' says the man in Moscow, 'It belongs to everyone.' I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... Rapture, a city where the artist would not fear the censor, where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality, Where the great would not be constrained by the small!

/I was poor once, but I was only American poor, not India poor, and definitely not Somalia poor.

I can't remember who it was, just a few years ago, who coined the term, "cheap-labor conservatives," referring to those self-styled 'conservatives' (who usually really aren't), who argue that wage controls are the root of all economic ills, that the fabled 'Market' will solve all social ills. Of course, we've already seen that, a century ago. It sucked. A lot. Not for everyone, of course, but for most people. So no, that does not actually work. It's great to imagine, I'm sure, for those who actually have to pay other human beings for their time and labour, but it's bad for the country as a whole, including the guy paying the wages. Fair wages for fair work, and living wages for all. A robust economy is driven by the movement of money through the system, and higher wages do exactly that.

That's farking genius.

This is why our country is in a world of shiat. Nobody understands economics.

A dollar spent on one thing, means that same dollar can't be spent elsewhere.

it's not like a stack of cash, if not spent paying poor people higher wages, goes into a box somewhere in a closet and sits there for years.

Hobodeluxe: Duh. More money in the hands of the people who will spend it will create demand which creates jobs which creates more demand which creates more demand...etc etc etc...It's not that hard to understand.

...and the rich people will have it all within a year anyway. Why can't they wait a little while?

AdolfOliverPanties: GaryPDX: People are paid for their skills, not their poorness. Gawd I''m so tired of this socialist bullshiat.

Got kids? They go to school? Use the roads? Ever call the police? Like the military? Ever use a library? Wait, never mind that one.

Yep, and the rich folks pay more for the EXACT same services that poor people pay far, far less for. And in a lot of cases, rich peole pay for schools that they never send their kids do.

thalidomide new and improved: A dollar spent on one thing, means that same dollar can't be spent elsewhere.

Actually money doesn't just get spent, it gets spent, then that gets spent etc. After all when someone gets paid a dollar, it doesn't stick in their pocket, it gets spent. And spending on wages is a very good way to get money moving around.

thalidomide new and improved: rich peole pay for schools that they never send their kids do.

Some do. Some don't. And of those who do many are just fine with it.

thalidomide new and improved: the rich folks pay more for the EXACT same services that poor people pay far, far less fo

Also, how does a rich person pay more for roads than a poor person?

Kazan: then it goes in a bank, or so investment that slows the speed of money.

True that.

WhyteRaven74: thalidomide new and improved: the rich folks pay more for the EXACT same services that poor people pay far, far less fo

Also, how does a rich person pay more for roads than a poor person?

Roads aren't services, as far as in the sense that I meant. But, the portion of roads that are paid for with taxes, income or otherwise, Rich people pay more in taxes than poor people. I think roads are mostly paid for with fuel taxes, but I don't think the roads are COMPLETELY paid for with taxes.

Roubini quote in FTA:

He argued that when the highest earners get paid more, they are more likely to save than spend, whereas workers at the lower end of the pay spectrum will spend and put money back into the economy rather than save.

Roubini's obviously smart so I have to assume that he's being 'selective' with this quote (I won't say intellectually dishonest). What do you think happens when people 'save'? Does it get stuffed in the mattress, or is it funneled into investment, via direct investment in small start up companies, equity capital via mutual funds allowing existing companies to expand, fixed income market allowing existing businesses and government to spend, or savings accounts to be converted into loans by banks for any of the above purposes?

We don't want every dollar to be invested - you need demand from consumption. But at the same time you don't want ever dollar earned to be consumed as you need investment to grow an economy. Given trends over recent decades in the United States, we overconsume and should encourage more investment rather than consumption..

Now, if Roubini is referring to just the most recent recession and current economic environment, he is correct. But I don't think this forum was focused on only the present but more on the long term global economy.

WhyteRaven74: thalidomide new and improved: rich peole pay for schools that they never send their kids do.

Some do. Some don't. And of those who do many are just fine with it.

I spend money on private schools. I begrudge having to do so, but I do it anyway. Because otherwise, in the public schools in my world, my kids would grow up learning how to press a button on machine for a living.

/go be poor somewhere else

thalidomide new and improved: Yep, and the rich folks pay more for the EXACT same services that poor people pay far, far less for. And in a lot of cases, rich peole pay for schools that they never send their kids do.

I remember that day like it was yesterday, the day the cops forced a gun in my parents head and forced them to send me to a private school.

thalidomide new and improved: I spend money on private schools. I begrudge having to do so, but I do it anyway. Because otherwise, in the public schools in my world, my kids would grow up learning how to press a button on machine for a living.

You're paying so the other kids can be button pushers instead of trigger pullers.

WhyteRaven74: thalidomide new and improved: A dollar spent on one thing, means that same dollar can't be spent elsewhere.

Actually money doesn't just get spent, it gets spent, then that gets spent etc. After all when someone gets paid a dollar, it doesn't stick in their pocket, it gets spent. And spending on wages is a very good way to get money moving around.

Obviously. A dollar that is given to a poor person because he just wants more money to do the same damn thing he was doing the day before, is a dollar the owner won't spend:

-building his business
-hiring someone else
-buying more or better inventory

And if the guy just pockets it, it's his damned money anyway, what business is it of ours anyway?

All this planning and discussing of what a business owner should do with the dollars his business makes, without even so much as ASKING the business owner, seems eerie, to me.

12349876: thalidomide new and improved: I spend money on private schools. I begrudge having to do so, but I do it anyway. Because otherwise, in the public schools in my world, my kids would grow up learning how to press a button on machine for a living.

You're paying so the other kids can be button pushers instead of trigger pullers.

I get it. I said I begrudge it, I didn't say I'm going all Occupy PTA about it.

GaryPDX: AdolfOliverPanties: GaryPDX: People are paid for their skills, not their poorness. Gawd I''m so tired of this socialist bullshiat.

Got kids? They go to school? Use the roads? Ever call the police? Like the military? Ever use a library? Wait, never mind that one.

Yes I do, 20 and 22 age, boys. They know they are no "owed" something, they work for a living, work for what they build. It ain't rocket surgery.



I've never met an American who feels they were owed something because they are American. I've met Americans that think they are naturally smarter, better looking, faster, strong, etc; but never one that feels they are to be handed anything.

What I think what most Americans want, is a square deal. They want to know that the deck isn't stacked against any progress they may make. Because if the outcome is going to be a lose, there is no point in even attempting to play the game.