ALL religion is strange. but, holy shiat, that's pretty farked up.

Don't worry, there aren't that many old Jews in Florida.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Please HuffPo: there's enough wrong with Romney that you don't have to rag on him about his religion.

But they haven't even gotten to the part where they had to re-write their book to gloss over the belief that black people are cursed by Cain's heritage and that Native Americans are spawns of Satan.

And this is different from how a cult behaves... how?

Codenamechaz: But they haven't even gotten to the part where they had to re-write their book to gloss over the belief that black people are cursed by Cain's heritage and that Native Americans are spawns of Satan.

that's what i want to ask romney. because that was official LDS doctrine up until 1978 when romney was a very grown-up 31 years old. was he appalled by this? was he ok with this?

FlashHarry: because that was official LDS doctrine up until 1978 when romney was a very grown-up 31 years old.

And it's still the doctrine of the Tea Party.

MaudlinMutantMollusk: And this is different from how a cult behaves... how?

Population and "white-ness"

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Please HuffPo: there's enough wrong with Romney that you don't have to rag on him about his religion.

But but Muslims!

/you are right

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Please HuffPo: there's enough wrong with Romney that you don't have to rag on him about his religion.

This is a dumb thing. Are there only a certain number of things we can find "wrong" with a candidate before we have to stop? Some sort of "wrongness quota" that I am not aware of?

I motion that we start baptizing dead Mormons in the faith of The Fark.

/in Drew we drunkenly Post

Thought they stopped doing this after the cat was let out of the bag a while back?

/Google Image the inside of a mormon temple
//Maybe it was just me who was freaked the fark right out.

Well, that makes sense. I was always worried about all the people that couldn't be saved by Jesus because they lived before him. Baptize the dead. Problem solved. I suppose God can pull someone out of Hell anytime He please.

Is there a way to get on a list or something?

So Willard Romney follows religious practices similar to Muslims?

It seems crazy that this guy is a Mormon and running for President of the United States. If he wins it raises a lot of questions, like:

- How can you make a horse and buggy bulletproof?

- If he's forbidden to use technology, who is going to answer the red phone at 3:00am?

- Why has no one asked him where his beard is?

Any Mormon may baptize any person posthumously. Church members have performed the ritual on Buddha, Catholic popes, 9/11 hijackers, William Shakespeare, Joan of Arc, Elvis Presley, President Obama's mother and even reportedly Jesus Christ. In 2002, the managing director of the Mormon's family and church history department told The New Yorker magazine that as many as 200 million dead people had been baptized as Mormons.

Please tell me they baptized Mohammad. I will be very disappointed if they didn't.

Baptize Christopher Hitchens, and in a couple years, Stephen Hawking, that'll show 'em!

basemetal: Any Mormon may baptize any person posthumously. Church members have performed the ritual on Buddha, Catholic popes, 9/11 hijackers, William Shakespeare, Joan of Arc, Elvis Presley, President Obama's mother and even reportedly Jesus Christ. In 2002, the managing director of the Mormon's family and church history department told The New Yorker magazine that as many as 200 million dead people had been baptized as Mormons.

Please tell me they baptized Mohammad. I will be very disappointed if they didn't.

I thought they had to have a birth and death certificate- or some way of proving when they were born and died (grave stone, etc).

Ben Enya: Thought they stopped doing this after the cat was let out of the bag a while back?

/Google Image the inside of a mormon temple
//Maybe it was just me who was freaked the fark right out.

wow, it's like the world's WASPiest interior decorator took a giant shiat

The really sad thing is that the LDS have been asked more than once to cease performing baptisms for deceased Jewish people. They stopped for awhile and then started doing the baptisms again.

I find that type of behavior highly disrespectful of another religion's core beliefs.

Bathia_Mapes: The really sad thing is that the LDS have been asked more than once to cease performing baptisms for deceased Jewish people. They stopped for awhile and then started doing the baptisms again.

I find that type of behavior highly disrespectful of another religion's core beliefs.

yeah, but isn't that sort of the core of an awful lot of religions? "this is the only true religion" and all that? spread the religion as far as you can, convert people, etc? except, ironically, for jewish people.

/free hats!

davidphogan: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Please HuffPo: there's enough wrong with Romney that you don't have to rag on him about his religion.

I dunno...

When Newsweek magazine asked Romney if he personally had performed posthumous baptisms on anyone, author Jonathan Darman wrote, "he looked slightly startled and answered, 'I have in my life, but I haven't recently.' The awareness of how odd this will sound to many Americans is what makes Romney hesitant to elaborate on the Mormon question."

I'd say it's valid to report on something he himself has talked about before.

Never mind the fact that he did> at some point.

Further, what does" recently" mean to him? I could say " haven't had a hamburger recently" -- even though I had one on Saturday afternoon for lunch. But it's not as recent as the fact that I had vegetable soup for lunch today. It's a vague word that can be applied in many different ways.

Sorry to interrupt your argument by discussing the article, but did you guys realize Cesar Chavez, Tupac Shakur, Harry Caray, Alexander The Great, Joey Ramone, and George Carlin are all Mormons?

Krymson Tyde: Sorry to interrupt your argument by discussing the article, but did you guys realize Cesar Chavez, Tupac Shakur, Harry Caray, Alexander The Great, Joey Ramone, and George Carlin are all Mormons?

Jesus Christ, too, apparently. now that's balls.

FlashHarry: Krymson Tyde: Sorry to interrupt your argument by discussing the article, but did you guys realize Cesar Chavez, Tupac Shakur, Harry Caray, Alexander The Great, Joey Ramone, and George Carlin are all Mormons?

Jesus Christ, too, apparently. now that's balls.

Yeah, I suppose that's going all in.

This thread is, like, the worst.

What in the name of fark happened in this thread already?

Mitt Romney's problem with evangelical Christian voters has been well documented.

Whoa, I didn't know he had a problem with Tim Tebow. He must be a fan of the Raiders.

CapnBlues: Bathia_Mapes: The really sad thing is that the LDS have been asked more than once to cease performing baptisms for deceased Jewish people. They stopped for awhile and then started doing the baptisms again.

I find that type of behavior highly disrespectful of another religion's core beliefs.

yeah, but isn't that sort of the core of an awful lot of religions? "this is the only true religion" and all that? spread the religion as far as you can, convert people, etc? except, ironically, for jewish people.

/free hats!

To a certain extent, yes. However, only Mormons perform baptisms for the dead. They perform baptisms via proxy. A member of the LDS church goes to the temple and is baptized in the deceased person's name to ensure that person will enter the kingdom of God. In most cases they're performing these baptisms without the permission of the deceased person's family.

From Wikipedia: n 2008, the American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors, announced that, since the Church had repeatedly violated previous agreements, it would no longer negotiate with the Church to try to prevent vicarious baptism. Speaking on the anniversary of Kristallnacht, Ernest Michel, a Holocaust survivor who reported on the Nuremberg Trials, speaking as the honorary chairman of the American Gathering of Holocaust Survivors, called on the LDS Church to "implement a mechanism to undo what they have done", and declared that the LDS Church had repeatedly violated their agreements, and that talks with Mormon leaders were now ended. Jewish groups, he said, would now turn to the court of public opinion for justice. Michel called the practice a revision of history that plays into the hands of Holocaust deniers, stating: "They tell me, that my parents' Jewishness has not been altered but ... 100 years from now, how will they be able to guarantee that my mother and father of blessed memory who lived as Jews and were slaughtered by Hitler for no other reason than they were Jews, will someday not be identified as Mormon victims of the Holocaust?

kingoomieiii: This thread is, like, the worst.

Especially since he troll war is taking away from discussion about an actual issue -- the fact that Romney admitted he absolutely HAS performed Mormon baptisms on dead people from other faiths.

I don't like the idea of picking on the guy for his religion, but that right there is really, really messed up.

Bathia_Mapes: To a certain extent, yes. However, only Mormons perform baptisms for the dead. They perform baptisms via proxy. A member of the LDS church goes to the temple and is baptized in the deceased person's name to ensure that person will enter the kingdom of God. In most cases they're performing these baptisms without the permission of the deceased person's family.

yeah, I know what it's about, thanks. I just don't see how that's any weirder or more offensive than any other faith. it's just less familiar.

kingoomieiii: What IS your name? I've been saying "Gato" in my head. Which doesn't help the "black animals" assumption (not one I hold).

It's actually an acronym, combined with just adding a couple of numbers since just GAT was taken. So I think of it as G-A-T-0-0, sounding each one out individually. And those are zeros, not the letter, which some people use.

And at this point, I like it better with leaving what GAT stands for alone. It doesn't matter much anyway.

In 2002, the managing director of the Mormon's family and church history department told The New Yorker magazine that as many as 200 million dead people had been baptized as Mormons

While I agree that is pretty strange, it really only wrankles people who have a deep devotion to their own crazy religious beliefs and actually believe they'll be "looking down" at someone doing that to their body. Honestly, I don't care if 100 people of different religions "baptize" me after I die..... I'm dead, like I'm even going to know!

And honestly, if you are a "true believer" that your version of the afterlife is "correct".... why do you care if someone does a meaningless (in your perspectives eyes) posthumous Baptism on you? You don't believe what they believe is true anyway. People are just way too uptight.

GAT_00: kingoomieiii: What IS your name? I've been saying "Gato" in my head. Which doesn't help the "black animals" assumption (not one I hold).

It's actually an acronym, combined with just adding a couple of numbers since just GAT was taken. So I think of it as G-A-T-0-0, sounding each one out individually. And those are zeros, not the letter, which some people use.

And at this point, I like it better with leaving what GAT stands for alone. It doesn't matter much anyway.

Great Ape Trust? It's Great Ape Trust, isn't it.

kingoomieiii: GAT_00: kingoomieiii: What IS your name? I've been saying "Gato" in my head. Which doesn't help the "black animals" assumption (not one I hold).

It's actually an acronym, combined with just adding a couple of numbers since just GAT was taken. So I think of it as G-A-T-0-0, sounding each one out individually. And those are zeros, not the letter, which some people use.

And at this point, I like it better with leaving what GAT stands for alone. It doesn't matter much anyway.

Great Ape Trust? It's Great Ape Trust, isn't it.

*flings poo*

Apparently that is how you bring a thread to a screeching halt.

GAT_00: Apparently that is how you bring a thread to a screeching halt.

The Mormon practice of posthumously "baptizing" non-Mormons is absolutely disgusting. Discuss.

kingoomieiii: The Mormon practice of posthumously "baptizing" non-Mormons is absolutely disgusting. Discuss.

personally, if anyone baptizes me postmortem, i'm going to come back and haunt the shiat out of them.

Codenamechaz: But they haven't even gotten to the part where they had to re-write their book to gloss over the belief that black people are cursed by Cain's heritage and that Native Americans are spawns of Satan.





No, actually that first part is folklore (new window) that has never been official part of LDS doctrine--like the popular notion that black people were somehow not vigilant enough in the War against God (also never part of doctrine or policy even though non-LDS think it is), and actually the Amerindians (according to doctrine) are descended from the Lamanites (part of the ancient Israeli system of tribes before the Assyrian invasion). Regrouping the descendents of the lost tribes is in the LDS an important aspect of preparing for the second coming of Christ. When you're going to ridicule people's religion, you could at least give the appearance of knowing what you're talking about (new window) by doing some actual research (new window). There have always been Black Mormons and Black ordained Elders in the Church too like Elijah Able (new window):



And that goes for the reporter too, who essentially is spouting salacious half-truths with no context. For example, the LDS Church believes in nearly universal salvation--so Jews don't need to be "saved" any more than anyone else. Vicarious baptism is designed to give spirits in the post-mortal realm an opportunity to be missionized, just as people are on Earth by mortal missionaries. The entire Mormon religion depends on spirits and persons on Earth and after-death having the freewill to choose or reject missionization. In fact, according to LDS doctrine the conflict over freewill or predestination was itself a cause of the rebellion against God by Satan.

There are tons of good academic books on Mormons and race out there. Read one.

kingoomieiii: GAT_00: Apparently that is how you bring a thread to a screeching halt.

The Mormon practice of posthumously "baptizing" non-Mormons is absolutely disgusting. Discuss.

Again, I go back to my think.... I think it is "kooky", but, if you are not Mormon, you are one of two things:
1. Non-religious/agnostic/atheist/etc.... so, you probably don't/barely believe in God and/or afterlife, so, why do you care if someone performs a meaningless "ceremony" towards your body after you are dead and won't know anyway?
2. Some other religious belief.... which, as well, if you don't believe Mormonism to be a "true" religion, then, their Baptism is an "empty" and meaningless act, right? The only way you could be offended is if you actually believed them performing the baptism actually caused something else to happen to you in the afterlife, but, you can't, if you have that strong of religious belief. Otherwise, your belief is not as strong as you think.