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(News.com.au) Fail Pro tip: If you're trying to defuse an artillery round, an acetylene torch is probably not the best tool for "tinkering" with it   (news.com.au) divider line 73
More: Fail, Manila, welders, explosions  
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7880 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jan 2012 at 1:50 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



73 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-01-25 01:53:03 PM
Security cam screengrab:

i.imgur.com
 
2012-01-25 01:53:32 PM
FTA:""There was a procedural lapse in the way they handled this artillery round," Apolinario said."

Ya think?
 
2012-01-25 01:53:39 PM
Better than driving it off the dock with a fork lift...

/still searching for pic
 
2012-01-25 02:00:13 PM
dahmers love zombie: Security cam screengrab:

[i.imgur.com image 480x360]


Damnit. Came here to recommend a large hammer...
 
2012-01-25 02:06:24 PM
dahmers love zombie: Security cam screengrab:

[i.imgur.com image 480x360]



Classic episode, still makes me laugh to tears to this day. Nothing beats mid 50's politically incorrect Warner Bro's cartoons
 
2012-01-25 02:10:19 PM
Stop trolling doc....

www.blogcdn.com
 
2012-01-25 02:13:21 PM
Darwinism at its finest.
 
2012-01-25 02:16:15 PM
FTFA: The sprawling police camp in Taguig, southeast of Manila, used to have a depot for unexploded munitions and vintage bombs but a huge, accidental explosion at the site forced authorities to close it years ago.

Really nothing more to say about that, really.
 
2012-01-25 02:17:34 PM
Did someone invite the Teutuls to this bomb defuse workshop?

/DNRTFA
 
2012-01-25 02:20:27 PM
AN artillery round has accidentally exploded while a welder and police commandos tinkered with it with an acetylene torch, killing four people, including two policemen, in the Philippine capital.

Hey, why can't we say accident anymore?
 
2012-01-25 02:20:35 PM
Ah, the old 'pink mist' scenario.


/good times...
 
2012-01-25 02:21:37 PM
Aardvark Inc.: Ah, the old 'pink mist' scenario.


/good times...



*Elaboration needed*
 
2012-01-25 02:26:33 PM
to be fair.... at least it isn't explosive anymore.
 
2012-01-25 02:29:33 PM
gravebayne2: to be fair.... at least it isn't explosive anymore.

Mission accomplished?
 
2012-01-25 02:33:32 PM
Things that make you go "BOOM".
 
2012-01-25 02:37:13 PM
All of the artillery I am familliar with, and I happen to be an expert being that I was the Ammo Team Chief for our Section, are easily defused and rendered benign by removing the fuse screwed into the top. That is the silver thing on the point in the Daffy Duck cartoon. Now it may make a difference whether it was a round that was fired or was unfired. I would be 100% confident even if falling down drunk that I could safely render it safe. A fired dud, not so much.
 
2012-01-25 02:39:36 PM
QuinnTheFetus: Better than driving it off the dock with a fork lift...

/still searching for pic


No, I think the forklift method would be safer.
 
2012-01-25 02:42:21 PM
images2.wikia.nocookie.net

Please Do Not Tinker With The Dynamite Monkey
 
2012-01-25 02:42:29 PM
Raoul Eaton: QuinnTheFetus: Better than driving it off the dock with a fork lift...

/still searching for pic

No, I think the forklift method would be safer.


static.onemansblog.com
 
2012-01-25 02:42:44 PM
This is why bomb squads purposefully detonate suspicious packages rather than trying to fark around with them. Better to blow it up safely than to attempt to defuse and fail spectacularly.
 
2012-01-25 02:45:51 PM
foxtail: All of the artillery I am familliar with, and I happen to be an expert being that I was the Ammo Team Chief for our Section, are easily defused and rendered benign by removing the fuse screwed into the top. That is the silver thing on the point in the Daffy Duck cartoon. Now it may make a difference whether it was a round that was fired or was unfired. I would be 100% confident even if falling down drunk that I could safely render it safe. A fired dud, not so much.

What if, as appears to possibly be the case, the fuse was stuck hard enough (perhaps through corrosion) that you can't unscrew the fuse with a wrench, like they initially tried to do?

Heating up the metal surrounding a stuck screw-type doohickey is a time honored way of loosening it. I've loosened many a rusted-in bolt myself that way. I could see a brave, but foolhardy, person trying that. Trick would be to not over-warm it. It's kind of like when I was defrosting a freezer *VERY* gently with a putty knife. It worked fine, but when the distaffbopper tried it, despite my warnings to be very gentle, she punctured the coil and ruined the fridge.

Personally, though, I would have just soaked the thing in WD-40 for a month instead.
 
2012-01-25 02:47:32 PM
is it safe now?
 
2012-01-25 02:47:52 PM
foxtail: All of the artillery I am familliar with, and I happen to be an expert being that I was the Ammo Team Chief for our Section, are easily defused and rendered benign by removing the fuse screwed into the top. That is the silver thing on the point in the Daffy Duck cartoon. Now it may make a difference whether it was a round that was fired or was unfired. I would be 100% confident even if falling down drunk that I could safely render it safe. A fired dud, not so much.

Well that removes the NORMAL source of detonation.

If you were to bring in a new source of ignition- a torch- all bets are off. Although, I do know C4 will only burn if exposed to a combustion source as opposed to exploding after being initiated with a blasting cap. The propellant charge in a complete shell could be another matter, however.
 
2012-01-25 02:48:33 PM
The shell "accidentally" exploded while being torched?

Uh, I think that's what they are designed to do. I could be wrong . . .

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-01-25 02:49:46 PM
a friend of mine was stationed in Eastern Turkey, Iserlek AFB? anyway he was in bomb maintance and they had an excess "Daisy cutter" a 15,000 lb bomb and needed to dispose of it. they contracted with a Turkish firm who came in early in the morning to start the defusing work. at Noon they went off to pray, and all the AF guys went to lunch. during lunch the bomb went off. the area around it had all of it's windows broken at a rising 20 degree angle. he sent pictures. at least they were able to dispose of the bomb. his comment on the picture of the exploded bomb dump had "Damn! the explosion contaiment really worked!" it's supposed to minimize damage by directing most of the blast upward.
 
2012-01-25 02:50:28 PM
Freezebyte: *Elaboration needed*

That's what you get turned into if you are standing to close to high explosives when they go off.
 
2012-01-25 02:57:03 PM
OldManDownDRoad: The shell "accidentally" exploded while being torched?

Uh, I think that's what they are designed to do. I could be wrong . . .


They're 'designed' to go off when the trigger is properly activated. Unless you're deliberately trying to lay booby traps, outside of that you want the thing to be as inert as possible. You could have taken that torch to C-4 and the C4 would simply have caught fire and started burning.

The detonator is generally the most explosive/dangerous part, which is why it's supposed to be easily removable. Also, while C4 is a very stable explosive, it's not common in actual munitions(too expensive) as opposed to being used for custom demolition work. Reading between the lines the artillery shell was probably old, and older explosives generally started out less stable and get more so with time.

Freezebyte: *Elaboration needed*

Artillery shells tend to have lots of explosives. If you're right at the shell when it detonates, what are you going to be reduced to?
 
2012-01-25 02:57:55 PM
Time for FARK to add a "Darwin" tag?
 
2012-01-25 02:59:47 PM
dittybopper: Heating up the metal surrounding a stuck screw-type doohickey is a time honored way of loosening it. I've loosened many a rusted-in bolt myself that way. I could see a brave, but foolhardy, person trying that. Trick would be to not over-warm it. It's kind of like when I was defrosting a freezer *VERY* gently with a putty knife. It worked fine, but when the distaffbopper tried it, despite my warnings to be very gentle, she punctured the coil and ruined the fridge.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of. The fuse was stuck, they tried to heat it to get it out.
 
2012-01-25 03:09:14 PM
A block of C4, on top of it, in the middle of a field, wasn't an option?
 
2012-01-25 03:09:34 PM
Loren: dittybopper: Heating up the metal surrounding a stuck screw-type doohickey is a time honored way of loosening it. I've loosened many a rusted-in bolt myself that way. I could see a brave, but foolhardy, person trying that. Trick would be to not over-warm it. It's kind of like when I was defrosting a freezer *VERY* gently with a putty knife. It worked fine, but when the distaffbopper tried it, despite my warnings to be very gentle, she punctured the coil and ruined the fridge.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of. The fuse was stuck, they tried to heat it to get it out.


And it probably was 70 years old or so, a leftover from WW2. The article does refer to a former depot for "vintage" munitions, one they done blowed up good a few years ago.
 
2012-01-25 03:21:41 PM
Protip: There's no space in protip.
 
2012-01-25 03:21:41 PM
Firethorn: Artillery shells tend to have lots of explosives. If you're right at the shell when it detonates, what are you going to be reduced to?

Normal procedure, Firethorn, is to jump 200 feet in the air and scatter oneself over a wide area.
 
2012-01-25 03:24:27 PM
A person can be smart but people tend to be stupid, sometimes in the most extraordinary ways. Watch how stupid these guys are (new link) (new window)
 
2012-01-25 03:33:56 PM
dittybopper: Personally, though, I would have just soaked the thing in WD-40 for a month instead.

WD-40 sucks. Use Kroil.
 
2012-01-25 03:36:56 PM
Fire is used in many cases to dispose of explosives. Many modern explosives will burn without detonating.
 
2012-01-25 03:43:08 PM
What was going through their minds?
Besides shrapnel.
 
2012-01-25 03:44:48 PM
dukwbutter: dittybopper: Personally, though, I would have just soaked the thing in WD-40 for a month instead.

WD-40 sucks. Use Kroil.


Use PB Blaster. You know it's good because the health warning takes up most of the label.

/Kroil is for cutting
//WD-40 is for water displacement
///and lard is for lube
 
2012-01-25 03:46:59 PM
OldManDownDRoad: /Kroil is for cutting

I'm not clear why you say Kroil is for cutting. It's an aircraft lubricant, if I'm not mistaken.
 
2012-01-25 03:49:09 PM
IBelieveYouHaveMyStapler: A person can be smart but people tend to be stupid, sometimes in the most extraordinary ways. Watch how stupid these guys are (new link) (new window)

Hmmm. Your link doesn't open a new window, sir.
 
2012-01-25 03:59:41 PM
Oznog: foxtail: All of the artillery I am familliar with, and I happen to be an expert being that I was the Ammo Team Chief for our Section, are easily defused and rendered benign by removing the fuse screwed into the top. That is the silver thing on the point in the Daffy Duck cartoon. Now it may make a difference whether it was a round that was fired or was unfired. I would be 100% confident even if falling down drunk that I could safely render it safe. A fired dud, not so much.

Well that removes the NORMAL source of detonation.

If you were to bring in a new source of ignition- a torch- all bets are off. Although, I do know C4 will only burn if exposed to a combustion source as opposed to exploding after being initiated with a blasting cap. The propellant charge in a complete shell could be another matter, however.


Things like cordite respond very poorly to direct flame
 
2012-01-25 04:02:05 PM
dittybopper: What if, as appears to possibly be the case, the fuse was stuck hard enough (perhaps through corrosion) that you can't unscrew the fuse with a wrench, like they initially tried to do?
...
Personally, though, I would have just soaked the thing in WD-40 for a month instead.


I'd have gone with dry ice/liquid N₂ to shrink the whaddyacallit that was stuck rather than trying to heat a bomb.

/I'd have used kroil.
//boelube is for cutting
 
2012-01-25 04:03:47 PM
dukwbutter: OldManDownDRoad: /Kroil is for cutting

I'm not clear why you say Kroil is for cutting. It's an aircraft lubricant, if I'm not mistaken.


That was their original pitch, ages ago: Kroil is for Kutting! They sold it to machine shops for drills and lathes - good stuff, I still have an old drip-can on my ancient drill press with the original painted-on label that I refill from new stock.

The "PB vs Kroil" debate on auto restoration forums is as old as the hills. And if that's not tiresome enough, on the machinist forums you've got the "Kroil vs Marvel Mystery Oil" debate.

About the only difference I can see is that PB stinks a lot worse than Kroil does.
 
2012-01-25 04:05:42 PM
base935: A block of C4, on top of it, in the middle of a field, wasn't an option?

Or just pay kids to throw rocks at it and offer the winner a furby.
 
2012-01-25 04:10:19 PM
IBelieveYouHaveMyStapler: A person can be smart but people tend to be stupid, sometimes in the most extraordinary ways. Watch how stupid these guys are (new link) (new window)

$10 says that welder said "I'm not doing this unless you're standing over me when you do it, and you're checking the farking thing with a torch."

/has been in similar situations, with chlorine. My former employer hated me for refusing to deal with that crap.
 
2012-01-25 04:22:02 PM
Goimir: IBelieveYouHaveMyStapler: A person can be smart but people tend to be stupid, sometimes in the most extraordinary ways. Watch how stupid these guys are (new link) (new window)

$10 says that welder said "I'm not doing this unless you're standing over me when you do it, and you're checking the farking thing with a torch."

/has been in similar situations, with chlorine. My former employer hated me for refusing to deal with that crap.


it kills me(well not so much "me" as "them") that during the drive to the machine shop and subsequent discussion about the best way to deal with the thing somebody thought that "lets put the torch on it and see if that loosens it up" sounded like a good idea
 
2012-01-25 04:28:25 PM
Loren: dittybopper: Heating up the metal surrounding a stuck screw-type doohickey is a time honored way of loosening it. I've loosened many a rusted-in bolt myself that way. I could see a brave, but foolhardy, person trying that. Trick would be to not over-warm it. It's kind of like when I was defrosting a freezer *VERY* gently with a putty knife. It worked fine, but when the distaffbopper tried it, despite my warnings to be very gentle, she punctured the coil and ruined the fridge.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of. The fuse was stuck, they tried to heat it to get it out.


As a welder, I use an acetylene torch on a daily basis. The heat diffused through any metal you work with is so ridiculously high, there's no way in hell I am applying a torch to any sealed container, much less a freaking bomb. Simply heating the interior material with a torch causes massive expansion. Even if the explosives didn't combust, a sealed container could definitely kill onlookers once the inner material hit enough pressure to boom. I doubt they went to an actual welding shop, more likely it was just some dude with an old inverter.
 
2012-01-25 04:39:13 PM
croesius: As a welder, I use an acetylene torch on a daily basis. The heat diffused through any metal you work with is so ridiculously high, there's no way in hell I am applying a torch to any sealed container, much less a freaking bomb. Simply heating the interior material with a torch causes massive expansion. Even if the explosives didn't combust, a sealed container could definitely kill onlookers once the inner material hit enough pressure to boom. I doubt they went to an actual welding shop, more likely it was just some dude with an old inverter.

Years ago when I first started working in auto repair, that was one of the first safety things I learned. If someone had a rust hole in their gas tank, they had two options: get a tank from the junk yard or buy a new tank from the dealer. No way in hell were we going to try to braze or weld it. Occasionally you'd hear about guys who tried to weld a tank without first filling it with CO2 or water (the preferred redneck solution) - the explosion and deaths would be written up in the paper.

And I still hear about such explosions when guys try to cut old kerosene or heating-oil tanks in half to make BBQ cookers.

There's a metal shop near me that will cut a tank to make a cooker, but they use this nifty device that looks like a wicked piece of dental floss. Plus they fill the tank with water. Makes a mess, but no one's been hurt yet.
 
2012-01-25 04:39:58 PM
Karac: AN artillery round has accidentally exploded while a welder and police commandos tinkered with it with an acetylene torch, killing four people, including two policemen, in the Philippine capital.

Hey, why can't we say accident anymore?


Because 'accident' implies that there's no-one to blame.
www.maximile.net

/can't believe it took this long
//Hot Fuzz ftw
 
2012-01-25 04:40:19 PM
Voiceofreason01: it kills me(well not so much "me" as "them") that during the drive to the machine shop and subsequent discussion about the best way to deal with the thing somebody thought that "lets put the torch on it and see if that loosens it up" sounded like a good idea

I can see this happening in my head. You have one guy who's the boss's right hand man by virtue of sucking dick, one guy who knows what the fark he's doing, and the old Polish boss.

Goimir Fark Theatre presents...
Stupid Welder Tricks!

boss: and if we can't get it out we use it the torch to warm it up

w: it's a bomb, you're an idiot

boss: you do what I say if you want it job, otherwise I fire you tomorrow

cs: a little heat won't hurt

boss: yes, that is what I talk about. Just 'nough heat to get it loosen

w: enough heat to loosen will be enough to ignite

boss: nonsense, I used to do it Navy work like this all the time

w: for the Soviet Navy or the German Navy?

boss: shut up! You no want to do it I give it the torch to cocksucker over here.

cs lights torch, and blows everyone up.

FIN
 
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