And don't mind the mistakes in the prior comment.

RexTalionis: bulldg4life: None of you can talk until you read Old Man and the Sea.

Seriously, there were chapters about his hands holding rope.

Have you ever read The Jungle? I cannot believe that Old Man and the Sea could be that much worse than The Jungle, the most tediously melodramatic book ever written.

It can't be the most tediously melodramatic book ever written, because that's The Shipping News. Farking Annie Proulx.

Tax Boy: chimp_ninja: RexTalionis: Also, why does everyone hold The Great Gatsby out as some sort of exemplary example of the great American novel? I thought it was a massive bore.

Obligatory quote on the topic:
"Professor Winchester also said something about there being no modern epics like Paradise Lost. I guess he's right. He talked as if he was pretty familiar with that piece of literary work, and nobody would suppose that he never had read it. I don't believe any of you have ever read Paradise Lost, and you don't want to. That's something that you just want to take on trust. It's a classic, just as Professor Winchester says, and it meets his definition of a classic-something that everybody wants to have read and nobody wants to read."-Mark Twain, "Address at the Dinner of the Nineteenth Century Club" speech, 1900
High school 'required reading' lists should be looking for the maximum product of the quality of a given book times the number of students who will actually read it. It turns out that there have been a large number of fantastic books written within the last 50 years which speak to the same themes as "the classics", yet are much easier for modern readers to relate to.

I'm a reasonably avid reader, but I was assigned Paradise Lost in (public) high school, and I never came close to reading it.

Other obligatory quote:

Don't write this down, but I find Milton probably as boring as you find Milton. Mrs. Milton found him boring too. He's a little bit long-winded, he doesn't translate very well into our generation, and his jokes are terrible.

[Bell rings, students rise to leave]

But that doesn't relieve you of your responsibility for this material. Now I'm waiting for reports from some of you... Listen, I'm not joking. This is my job!

/tl;dr

At UMF I took my Shakespeare classes with a Milton scholar. We read Paradise Lost, and it's good to know what influenced literature down the line--to see the artistic evidentiary chain. Same with the Bard--to understand that he was the popular artist of his day. Same with Melville--he was very much the popular novelist. Same with Twain. Studying the literature that was, you fill in that chain, and it comes alive.

One of the reasons that I love Kenneth Branagh's productions, is that as a RSC member, he brings the Bard alive, and in the way that they're meant to be brought alive. As living, breathing plays, and with actors that give them the nuance and the vigor they deserve. Not read in a bored monotone by a dozen teenagers in a classroom, but as plays. You get to hear the language as it was, and realize, that those folks were fair similar. To see the ties to those people.

That's the importance of studying that literature. To reinforce those ties. Ties to our language. Ties to our culture. Ties to our people.

/I know, a long post in response to a joke, but dammit, that Milton is hard to access says something about the language and how it's changed, as much as where we are today.

Tremolo: Felgraf: At least he wasn't a "The Bluest Eye'.

... I swear to god, I think the high school was trying to get us all on anti depressants. My high school reading lists have absolutely destroyed my ability/desire for depressing endings. Bittersweet is still okay, but the "HAHA ALL HOPE IS LOST SEE LOOK HOW REALISTIC THIS IS EVERYONE DIED MISERABLE" sort of ending just... no. That makes me want to just throw the book.

Leseee-As I Lay Dying, All Quiet on the Western Front, The Bluest Eye, Song of Solomon, Things Fall apart (no, wait, that was middle school), just... augh. Why do we have this believe in western culture that tragedy=High art?

That's funny, All Quiet on the Western Front and The Bluest Eye are two of my favorite books that I had to read for a class. It's beyond "high art," can you imagine a book about German soldiers in World War 1 ending in any other way? What the story about an abused, unattractive, and insane black girl in segregated America? It speaks to humanity in the face of atrocity.

It was likely because it was just a litany of books just like that, and perhaps because I'm a pretty empathetic person (overly so, I imagine). I found it genuinely upsetting, even if they weren't real people. I think the constant parade of books like that made it difficult to look at the deeper meanings, because it was just. So. Depressing. And, I don't know. The Bluest Eye seemed just.. especially cruel, for almost no reason. Perhaps that's realistic: "everyone sucks and almost everyone this girl turns to help will just screw her up worse. Like her dad. Who rapes her . /And her mom, who beats her until she miscarries because of it. Because she hates her. For getting raped. Or that weird-ass-guy who turns out to be a pedophile." It just.. I suppose I don't like stories where it seems like someone has been picked to be the cosmic chew toy that has pretty much only bad things happen to them, and no one *really* even sticks up for them . Perhaps I'm remembering wrong. I mostly recall the girls in the story just being observers (they do try to 'plant flowers' for her, and admittedly at their age they can't do much else...)

fark, even Jim Robinson (and I imagine a story told from his perspective *would* be a bit depressing) had a man choose to risk life and limb to give him a fair day in court. Even if he did ultimately wind up convicted of a crime he didn't comment, and shot trying to escape, there was still two sides of humanity shown. There were people that wanted to kill him just for who he was, but there were also people willing to take risks (and in the time period of To Kill a Mockingbird, I would imagine choosing to defend a black man in a rape trial would be a *pretty big risk) because it was the right thing to do.

Again, maybe I'm just too empathetic, or perhaps I just didn't like them. Dunno.

skullkrusher: The jargon I can understand but do you really need very complex sentences?

I won't necessarily say "need," though I personally tend to use more complex language and will be long-winded when appropriate in a technical report.

Some journal articles do write abrupt, short sentences for the purposes of clarity and brevity. Some scientific journals are largely composed of articles written in such a fashion. Again, it all goes back to the audience.

A Dark Evil Omen: RexTalionis: bulldg4life: None of you can talk until you read Old Man and the Sea.

Seriously, there were chapters about his hands holding rope.

Have you ever read The Jungle? I cannot believe that Old Man and the Sea could be that much worse than The Jungle, the most tediously melodramatic book ever written.

It can't be the most tediously melodramatic book ever written, because that's The Shipping News. Farking Annie Proulx.

I vaguely remember The Shipping News, and you're right, it is a terribly (with emphasis on terrible) melodramatic book. However, The Jungle was basically 400 pages of nonstop disaster. The Eastern European guy and his young bride decide to come to the US, where they forced to work in slums where their kids die of starvation and disease, their friends fall into vats of cooking meat and get cooked alive. His wife was sold off to become a prostitute. His relatives all die terrible deaths. And then, the protagonist goes insane, goes off wandering, meets up with socialists and ends the book with a massively long speech about how socialism is great.

Awful. AWFUL.

So for Republican outrage is this too high and "Elitist" or too low and "Idiotic"?

skullkrusher: Seems to me that unnecessarily long sentences ridden with clauses would run contrary to the point.

Oh, and yes, I wouldn't "fluff" a journal article with wasted language. I will go into great detail and create looong sentences and paragraphs, but don't tend to ramble.

RexTalionis: I vaguely remember The Shipping News, and you're right, it is a terribly (with emphasis on terrible) melodramatic book. However, The Jungle was basically 400 pages of nonstop disaster. The Eastern European guy and his young bride...

I actually liked The Jungle. I nearly chose Jurgis as my Fark login.

Corvus: So for Republican outrage is this too high and "Elitist" or too low and "Idiotic"?

tenpoundsofcheese: You can still be an elist snob while talking down to your base.

OH IT'S BOTH!!! How could I miss that?

skullkrusher: would make for more boring reading.

I'm speaking of technical journals that literally publish reports of scientific or statistical studies. Yeah, they are boring by design.

hubiestubert: That's the importance of studying that literature. To reinforce those ties. Ties to our language. Ties to our culture. Ties to our people.

/I know, a long post in response to a joke, but dammit, that Milton is hard to access says something about the language and how it's changed, as much as where we are today.

I think the general idea that classic literature is boring is pretty toxic. A lot of it is boring and dense and difficult to understand, but then I see the same complaints being leveled at, well, Shakespeare and it makes me want to tear my hair out. Shakespeare is great! Macbeth was the single best thing I read in high school English, classic or modern.

To be honest, my two favorite cinematic versions of Shakespeare are the 1999 Titus with Anthony Hopkins and the '96 Romeo + Juliet with Leo DiCaprio and Claire Danes. Very very different both from each other and from any "standard" versions of the respective plays, but they brought the material - as written - to life in ways that still blow other plays and movies right out of the water. It's a tragedy that classic novels can't be reignited in the same way without fundamentally changing them.

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Cletus C.: Admit it Obamaniacs, you weren't sure whether this required a derisive retort or a hearty endorsement.

thefarkamireading.jpg

He's saying LOL LIBS R DUM

Do people think 8th grade level is low for a speech like this?

It seems like that's what people are saying isn't a newspaper average like 6th grade level. I doubt most people complaining even read anything that is much higher than a 6th grade level. It doesn't mean you're stupid.

bulldg4life: I love The Sun Also Rises and A Farewell to Arms is a great book.

But, a dude on a little dingy chasing a fish while seemingly going nuts....pass

I've never understood the allure of Hemingway. The dude writes whole pages about inane little details that don't even matter, his dialog is short, choppy sentences, and all of his characters are emotionally distant and cold.

As someone who genuinely likes Hemingway, what about those books did you enjoy?

/serious question

bulldg4life: None of you can talk until you read Old Man and the Sea.

Seriously, there were chapters about his hands holding rope.

My favorite Hemingway novel was I Would F*ck This Persnickety Whore But My Dick Don't Work. Also: Bulls..

culebra: I hope that this is an indicator that the GOP is prepared to underestimate Obama's intelligence heading into the general election.

I think it's a fair bet, considering they have overestimated their own intelligence while playing to the lowest common denominator, every day. It's like spring training for failure.

A Dark Evil Omen: hubiestubert: That's the importance of studying that literature. To reinforce those ties. Ties to our language. Ties to our culture. Ties to our people.

/I know, a long post in response to a joke, but dammit, that Milton is hard to access says something about the language and how it's changed, as much as where we are today.

I think the general idea that classic literature is boring is pretty toxic. A lot of it is boring and dense and difficult to understand, but then I see the same complaints being leveled at, well, Shakespeare and it makes me want to tear my hair out. Shakespeare is great! Macbeth was the single best thing I read in high school English, classic or modern.

To be honest, my two favorite cinematic versions of Shakespeare are the 1999 Titus with Anthony Hopkins and the '96 Romeo + Juliet with Leo DiCaprio and Claire Danes. Very very different both from each other and from any "standard" versions of the respective plays, but they brought the material - as written - to life in ways that still blow other plays and movies right out of the water. It's a tragedy that classic novels can't be reignited in the same way without fundamentally changing them.

They were the popular media of their day. They were the blockbusters of the time. Shakespeare was a literary rock star. Melville was an amazingly prolific and popular guy, because he wrote theses amazing travelogues for these exotic places. And let's face it, the opening to Moby Dick is phenomenal still today. Rich, evocative, witty, it's a brilliant and snarky way to open a book. A lot of folks treat literature as some sort of sacred Highest of Holies, but literature is about what has been popular enough to remain.

Literature is alive, and we need to treat its teaching as such as well.

/stoopid Language Arts degree...

Mikey1969: Diogenes: BillCo:

[img40.imageshack.us image 640x512]

From the pic: "The right to bare arms against the government"

Thank GOD! It's really not pleasant to wear a turtleneck in the middle of summer when i want to talk to my gov't official. It's nice to see that I can bare my arms now.

It depends on when you meet with them, and its relation to Labor Day...

hubiestubert: A Dark Evil Omen: hubiestubert: That's the importance of studying that literature. To reinforce those ties. Ties to our language. Ties to our culture. Ties to our people.

/I know, a long post in response to a joke, but dammit, that Milton is hard to access says something about the language and how it's changed, as much as where we are today.

I think the general idea that classic literature is boring is pretty toxic. A lot of it is boring and dense and difficult to understand, but then I see the same complaints being leveled at, well, Shakespeare and it makes me want to tear my hair out. Shakespeare is great! Macbeth was the single best thing I read in high school English, classic or modern.

To be honest, my two favorite cinematic versions of Shakespeare are the 1999 Titus with Anthony Hopkins and the '96 Romeo + Juliet with Leo DiCaprio and Claire Danes. Very very different both from each other and from any "standard" versions of the respective plays, but they brought the material - as written - to life in ways that still blow other plays and movies right out of the water. It's a tragedy that classic novels can't be reignited in the same way without fundamentally changing them.

They were the popular media of their day. They were the blockbusters of the time. Shakespeare was a literary rock star. Melville was an amazingly prolific and popular guy, because he wrote theses amazing travelogues for these exotic places. And let's face it, the opening to Moby Dick is phenomenal still today. Rich, evocative, witty, it's a brilliant and snarky way to open a book. A lot of folks treat literature as some sort of sacred Highest of Holies, but literature is about what has been popular enough to remain.

Literature is alive, and we need to treat its teaching as such as well.

/stoopid Language Arts degree...

Shakespeare was a nobody in his day.

MFL: Wasn't this the same speech he gave last year....and the year before?

No.

Leo Bloom's Freakout: On the topic of film adaptations of Shakespeare, I like almost everything Kenneth (you may remember me as Gilderoy Lockheart from the 3rd Harry Potter movie) Branagh has done (please do not watch Loves Labour's Lost.... I have no idea why that happened). Though if you watch only one, it's tough his Hamlet is amazing and I felt as relatable as the Daines/DiCaprio Romeo and Juliet (weak sauce of Shakespeare writing, watch Othello for the adult version of that story) or possibly Much Ado About Nothing for wonderfully witty banter well delivered.

Branagh's Much Ado About Nothing is maybe one of the best adaptations for film, ever. Funny, sexy, and just plain fun. It shows why Brian Blessed is such a marvel of a stage actor to American audiences, and it's hard to not fall in love, a little bit, with Emma Thompson every time you see it.

The spirit of the play, and the language comes through. Too many folks figure that Shakespeare is supposed to be refined. He's full of bawdy jokes, full of fun.

"'Tis good to lie between a maid's legs..." The language has moved on a bit since then, but the spirit lives on, and we need those connections.