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(Yahoo) Interesting This handy little run-down of top marginal and capital gains tax rates under presidents from FDR to the present might help explain why we used to have money to build roads and fight wars and stuff, and now we don't   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 301
More: Interesting, FDR, Eisenhower, human beings, Americans, End of World War II in Europe, capital gains taxes, Lyndon B. Johnson, Tax Policy Center  
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6931 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Jan 2012 at 1:49 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



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Kazan [TotalFark]
2012-01-25 12:06:47 PM
let's return to bill clinton rates

Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income: over $250,000: 39.6% - over $288,350: 39.6%

Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: 29.19% - 21.19%
 
Magorn [TotalFark]
2012-01-25 12:16:35 PM
Kazan: let's return to bill clinton rates

Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income: over $250,000: 39.6% - over $288,350: 39.6%

Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: 29.19% - 21.19%

That's crazy talk. Don't you rememeber that under his evil socialist regieme all the Job Creators went on stike and fled the country and tax revenues (as perfectly predicted by the Laffer Curve, PBUH) fell so dramatically that we had a huge negative budget deficit and Alan Greenspan was deeply worried we might stop selling 20 year treasury bills because we wouldn't need to borrow anymore money?

You want to go back to THAT nightmare of peace and prosperity?
 
Norv Turner
2012-01-25 12:28:48 PM
Magorn: Kazan: let's return to bill clinton rates

Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income: over $250,000: 39.6% - over $288,350: 39.6%

Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: 29.19% - 21.19%

That's crazy talk. Don't you rememeber that under his evil socialist regieme all the Job Creators went on stike and fled the country and tax revenues (as perfectly predicted by the Laffer Curve, PBUH) fell so dramatically that we had a huge negative budget deficit and Alan Greenspan was deeply worried we might stop selling 20 year treasury bills because we wouldn't need to borrow anymore money?

You want to go back to THAT nightmare of peace and prosperity?

Wow, laffer curve....I'm an Econ major and we spent all of 10 seconds covering that theory
 
Kazan [TotalFark]
2012-01-25 12:34:35 PM
Norv Turner: Wow, laffer curve....I'm an Econ major and we spent all of 10 seconds covering that theory

and yet the republicans believe it to be the gospel truth, and that there is no such thing as being on the right side of the laffer peak. everything is on the left side.
 
miss diminutive
2012-01-25 12:55:30 PM
WHAAAARRGARRRBLLL class warfare WHAAAARRGARRRBLLL!!
 
SphericalTime [TotalFark]
2012-01-25 01:07:03 PM
John F. Kennedy
Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income over $400,000: 91%

Gerald R. Ford
Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: 36.5% - 39.875%

Barack Obama
Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income: over $372,950 - over 388,350: 35%
Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: 15%

Decrease from max: Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income: -56%
Decrease from max: Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: -24.875%

That's sad.
 
Red Shirt Blues [TotalFark]
2012-01-25 01:16:57 PM
Yet not one mention on how a taxpayer arrives at their taxable income figure.
 
Red Shirt Blues [TotalFark]
2012-01-25 01:18:17 PM
Magorn: Kazan: let's return to bill clinton rates

Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income: over $250,000: 39.6% - over $288,350: 39.6%

Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: 29.19% - 21.19%

That's crazy talk. Don't you rememeber that under his evil socialist regieme all the Job Creators went on stike and fled the country and tax revenues (as perfectly predicted by the Laffer Curve, PBUH) fell so dramatically that we had a huge negative budget deficit and Alan Greenspan was deeply worried we might stop selling 20 year treasury bills because we wouldn't need to borrow anymore money?

You want to go back to THAT nightmare of peace and prosperity?

I would also like crude oil to dip below 10.00 bucks a barrel again.
 
quickdraw [TotalFark]
2012-01-25 01:20:47 PM
img692.imageshack.us
 
quickdraw [TotalFark]
2012-01-25 01:31:52 PM
gah sorry - that was very quick and dirty. Gets the point across though.
 
Magorn [TotalFark]
2012-01-25 01:46:32 PM
quickdraw: [img692.imageshack.us image 600x463]

Wow the Chart makes it really obvious. Where did we once find the political will to make the rich pay thier share, and when did we lose it?
 
WizardofToast
2012-01-25 01:51:06 PM
quickdraw: [img692.imageshack.us image 600x463]

I was told my taxes would go sky high under Obama. Yeaaah they haven't learned about good old Ike.
 
TyrantII
2012-01-25 01:54:56 PM
Norv Turner: Magorn: Kazan: let's return to bill clinton rates

Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income: over $250,000: 39.6% - over $288,350: 39.6%

Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: 29.19% - 21.19%

That's crazy talk. Don't you rememeber that under his evil socialist regieme all the Job Creators went on stike and fled the country and tax revenues (as perfectly predicted by the Laffer Curve, PBUH) fell so dramatically that we had a huge negative budget deficit and Alan Greenspan was deeply worried we might stop selling 20 year treasury bills because we wouldn't need to borrow anymore money?

You want to go back to THAT nightmare of peace and prosperity?

Wow, laffer curve....I'm an Econ major and we spent all of 10 seconds covering that theory

NONONO.

Everyone who slept through econ 101 is a economics major! Free markets wargble!
 
Irving Maimway
2012-01-25 01:55:25 PM
oldnewsissoexciting.jpg

Really, this is nothing new, I'm really surprised this doesn't get shown more often and in bolder colors. Ike was darn near a freaking communist compared to Grover Norquist's minions.
 
pacified
2012-01-25 01:55:27 PM
AND keep in mind, all these "JOB CREATORS" never pay a dime of Social Security and Medicare taxes on their "income". that's another 10% of taxes that WORKING PEOPLE pay that the GILDED CLASS does not.
 
Saiga410
2012-01-25 01:55:29 PM
I will listen to any roll back to x date tax rates as long as they are willing to accept the other rates of the day instead of only being interested in the top rate.
 
Knara
2012-01-25 01:56:15 PM
Magorn: quickdraw: [img692.imageshack.us image 600x463]

Wow the Chart makes it really obvious. Where did we once find the political will to make the rich pay thier share, and when did we lose it?

When poor/middle-class conservatives were convinced simultaneously that social issues mattered more than anything else *and* that the only thing preventing them from moving up in life was liberals socialists.

/yes, I realize the two statements in that sentence are contradictory in some ways
 
threadjackistan
2012-01-25 01:56:21 PM
Magorn: quickdraw: [img692.imageshack.us image 600x463]

Wow the Chart makes it really obvious. Where did we once find the political will to make the rich pay thier share, and when did we lose it?

It was around the point that the rich discovered that by bribing the people that print the money, they could afford to bribe everyone else that needed to be bribed.
 
Karac
2012-01-25 01:58:08 PM
Magorn: quickdraw: [img692.imageshack.us image 600x463]

Wow the Chart makes it really obvious. Where did we once find the political will to make the rich pay thier share, and when did we lose it?

It appears it was lost sometime during the Reagan years. Must've been the alzheimers; maybe Bill should've checked under the cushions in the couch before Ron and Nancy moved out.
 
Lando Lincoln [TotalFark]
2012-01-25 01:58:49 PM
I like the Ford plan. Let's go with that one.
 
Saiga410
2012-01-25 01:59:12 PM
Karac: Magorn: quickdraw: [img692.imageshack.us image 600x463]

Wow the Chart makes it really obvious. Where did we once find the political will to make the rich pay thier share, and when did we lose it?

It appears it was lost sometime during the Reagan years. Must've been the alzheimers; maybe Bill should've checked under the cushions in the couch before Ron and Nancy moved out.

Bill who?
 
The_Six_Fingered_Man
2012-01-25 02:01:05 PM
Everyone ITT realizes that a major change to the Internal Revenue Code came in 1986, right? And that is why some of the tax rates were lowered so dramatically in exchange for the elimination of a whole host of provisions that favored the rich?
 
whitman00
2012-01-25 02:01:35 PM
I was told it's a spending problem... Have I been mislead?

It appears if you cut trillions off the income side, the government ends up creating a giant debt...
Hmmm. Interesting concept.

/How did we have all those jobs and growth from the 50s to the 90s when the Job Creators™ were being so abused by the tax system?
 
soy_bomb
2012-01-25 02:02:04 PM
No chart showing the colossal increase in Federal spending on things that are not building roads and fighting wars?
 
PanicMan
2012-01-25 02:02:32 PM
So raise taxes.
 
apoptotic
2012-01-25 02:02:35 PM
quickdraw: [img692.imageshack.us image 600x463]

Thank you for doing that. My first thought when I clicked the link to TFA was "handy little rundown? where's the graph?".
 
CPennypacker
2012-01-25 02:03:40 PM
Saiga410: I will listen to any roll back to x date tax rates as long as they are willing to accept the other rates of the day instead of only being interested in the top rate.

That's fine, as long as they add more brackets to the top with even higher rates to account for the changes in income due to inflation as well as the astronomical incomes the wealthiest earn now relative to then.
 
Giltric
2012-01-25 02:04:10 PM
Wow so this means the Rockerfellers were trillionaires instead of billionaires since the government kept 90% of the Rockerfellers money?

Something tells me a chart doesn't tell the whole story.
Anyone want to be a little more honest?

Top rate charts make great FW: FW: FW: FW: FW: FW: FW: FW:'s
 
Karac
2012-01-25 02:05:07 PM
Saiga410: Karac: Magorn: quickdraw: [img692.imageshack.us image 600x463]

Wow the Chart makes it really obvious. Where did we once find the political will to make the rich pay thier share, and when did we lose it?

It appears it was lost sometime during the Reagan years. Must've been the alzheimers; maybe Bill should've checked under the cushions in the couch before Ron and Nancy moved out.

Bill who?

Doh. Brainfarted and forgot Bush the Elder. Not that his 3% raise following a 42% drop mattered anything more than breaking the no new taxes pledge.
 
Red Shirt Blues [TotalFark]
2012-01-25 02:05:27 PM
SphericalTime: John F. Kennedy
Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income over $400,000: 91%

Gerald R. Ford
Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: 36.5% - 39.875%

Barack Obama
Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income: over $372,950 - over 388,350: 35%
Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: 15%

Decrease from max: Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income: -56%
Decrease from max: Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: -24.875%

That's sad.

Effective tax rate on highest quintile individuals 1979 15.70%
Effective tax rate on highest quintile individuals 2008 14.40%



Effective tax rate on highest one percent incomes 1979 21.80%
Effective tax rate on highest one percent incomes 2007 19.00%

This is the link to the data Link (new window)

I think what you're missing is the big cut in the rates applied to taxable income happened under Reagan. Also under Reagan was Tax Reform 1986. I was a sophomore in college (yeah......yeah.......lawn off it) when that was implemented. That drastically slashed the deductions you could take in arriving at taxable income. Pre TRA 1986 the rules were extremely liberal in how and what you could deduct. Chiefly through passive loss limitations and at risk limitations there was an increase in taxable income.

It would be an incomplete argument just to say that it's "sad" when looking at tax rates without looking at what is actually being taxed.
 
jst3p
2012-01-25 02:07:30 PM
Magorn: quickdraw: [img692.imageshack.us image 600x463]

Wow the Chart makes it really obvious. Where did we once find the political will to make the rich pay thier share, and when did we lose it?

According to the chart, around 1980.
 
HeadLever
2012-01-25 02:07:34 PM
That tells part of the story, but it needs to be reconciled with the money that goverment brough in to get the whole story.

home.comcast.net

Yes, taxes do need to be reformed, but don't pretend that this relationship is a slam dunk for getting us out of this mess.
 
Rapmaster2000
2012-01-25 02:07:36 PM
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income over $400,000: 92% - 91%
Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: 25%

Who wants to go back to the dark days of the 1950s?

Elvis Presley taunting the chastity of our young girls with his libidinous hip motions?
Cadillacs with fins so pointy they could put your eye out?
Our glorious COMMANDER IN CHIEF Ronald Reagan forced to share the screen with a chimpanzee to the delight of the elite liberal Hollywood Jew establishment?!

That's not the America I want to see again.
 
Headso
2012-01-25 02:07:41 PM
The_Six_Fingered_Man: Everyone ITT realizes that a major change to the Internal Revenue Code came in 1986, right? And that is why some of the tax rates were lowered so dramatically in exchange for the elimination of a whole host of provisions that favored the rich?

did something similar occur during that 13 percentage point drop on capital gains?
 
meat0918 [TotalFark]
2012-01-25 02:08:29 PM
We spend what, a little over two percent of our GDP on infrastructure for one of the largest nations in the world?

And what do we have to show for it? Collapsing bridges, crumbling roads, ancient ports, and rail lines lying in disrepair.
 
meat0918 [TotalFark]
2012-01-25 02:09:51 PM
Magorn: quickdraw: [img692.imageshack.us image 600x463]

Wow the Chart makes it really obvious. Where did we once find the political will to make the rich pay thier share, and when did we lose it?

Around the Carter/Reagan transition apparently.
 
Saiga410
2012-01-25 02:10:27 PM
Is there anyone that would like to share with the class the revenue vs gdp graph. You know the one where it rarely deviates from 18% and only does so during economic downturns.
 
CPennypacker
2012-01-25 02:11:02 PM
Red Shirt Blues: SphericalTime: John F. Kennedy
Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income over $400,000: 91%

Gerald R. Ford
Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: 36.5% - 39.875%

Barack Obama
Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income: over $372,950 - over 388,350: 35%
Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: 15%

Decrease from max: Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income: -56%
Decrease from max: Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: -24.875%

That's sad.

Effective tax rate on highest quintile individuals 1979 15.70%
Effective tax rate on highest quintile individuals 2008 14.40%



Effective tax rate on highest one percent incomes 1979 21.80%
Effective tax rate on highest one percent incomes 2007 19.00%

This is the link to the data Link (new window)

I think what you're missing is the big cut in the rates applied to taxable income happened under Reagan. Also under Reagan was Tax Reform 1986. I was a sophomore in college (yeah......yeah.......lawn off it) when that was implemented. That drastically slashed the deductions you could take in arriving at taxable income. Pre TRA 1986 the rules were extremely liberal in how and what you could deduct. Chiefly through passive loss limitations and at risk limitations there was an increase in taxable income.

It would be an incomplete argument just to say that it's "sad" when looking at tax rates without looking at what is actually being taxed.

Those are income tax rates
 
bigbadideasinaction
2012-01-25 02:11:11 PM
Magorn: quickdraw: [img692.imageshack.us image 600x463]

Wow the Chart makes it really obvious. Where did we once find the political will to make the rich pay thier share, and when did we lose it?

Not really a coincidence that it started when the Republican party managed to get all the Evangelicals on board. They had their ban of useful idiots who'll vote straight-ticket, so they no longer had to actually be accountable to the American people as long as they were promising to ban abortion and such.
 
Deftoons
2012-01-25 02:12:05 PM
Context is key.

America, over 50 years ago, had the economic benefits of winning World War II and while the rest of the world was recuperating and rebuilding, America was able to set up as the world's machine shop for a long time and could survive at such higher tax rates. Then after a couple decades of the other countries become sustainable again and offer competitive labor for lower dollars, thus manufacturing jobs went overseas and demand for American labor went down.

If tax rates went back up to 1950's levels today, I guarantee you our entire country would shut down to a grinding halt. Unless, of course, we bomb and destroy a few more industrialized nations again.
 
meat0918 [TotalFark]
2012-01-25 02:12:20 PM
HeadLever: That tells part of the story, but it needs to be reconciled with the money that goverment brough in to get the whole story.

[home.comcast.net image 640x462]

Yes, taxes do need to be reformed, but don't pretend that this relationship is a slam dunk for getting us out of this mess.

Curious, but why does your graph spike near 120% for Top Marginal Rate?
 
Giltric
2012-01-25 02:12:28 PM
Red Shirt Blues: ...........



Hes not one of us hes probably not even human with all his talk of deductions, taxable income. passive loss limitations and at risk limitations.
...GET HIM!!!!!!

nukethefridge.com
 
HeadLever
2012-01-25 02:12:44 PM
Saiga410: Is there anyone that would like to share with the class the revenue vs gdp graph. You know the one where it rarely deviates from 18% and only does so during economic downturns.

*Waves and points upthread*
 
Red Shirt Blues [TotalFark]
2012-01-25 02:13:11 PM
CPennypacker: Red Shirt Blues: SphericalTime: John F. Kennedy
Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income over $400,000: 91%

Gerald R. Ford
Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: 36.5% - 39.875%

Barack Obama
Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income: over $372,950 - over 388,350: 35%
Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: 15%

Decrease from max: Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income: -56%
Decrease from max: Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: -24.875%

That's sad.

Effective tax rate on highest quintile individuals 1979 15.70%
Effective tax rate on highest quintile individuals 2008 14.40%



Effective tax rate on highest one percent incomes 1979 21.80%
Effective tax rate on highest one percent incomes 2007 19.00%

This is the link to the data Link (new window)

I think what you're missing is the big cut in the rates applied to taxable income happened under Reagan. Also under Reagan was Tax Reform 1986. I was a sophomore in college (yeah......yeah.......lawn off it) when that was implemented. That drastically slashed the deductions you could take in arriving at taxable income. Pre TRA 1986 the rules were extremely liberal in how and what you could deduct. Chiefly through passive loss limitations and at risk limitations there was an increase in taxable income.

It would be an incomplete argument just to say that it's "sad" when looking at tax rates without looking at what is actually being taxed.

Those are income tax rates

They are effective income tax rate on household incomes.
 
meat0918 [TotalFark]
2012-01-25 02:13:36 PM
meat0918: HeadLever: That tells part of the story, but it needs to be reconciled with the money that goverment brough in to get the whole story.

[home.comcast.net image 640x462]

Yes, taxes do need to be reformed, but don't pretend that this relationship is a slam dunk for getting us out of this mess.

Curious, but why does your graph spike near 120% for Top Marginal Rate?

Never mind, the Y-axis is %of GDP, isn't it?
 
HeadLever
2012-01-25 02:13:59 PM
meat0918: Curious, but why does your graph spike near 120% for Top Marginal Rate?

Yeah, I just noticed that too. That appears to be incorrect. Try this one:

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
mongbiohazard
2012-01-25 02:14:05 PM
Kazan: Norv Turner: Wow, laffer curve....I'm an Econ major and we spent all of 10 seconds covering that theory

and yet the republicans believe it to be the gospel truth, and that there is no such thing as being on the right side of the laffer peak. everything is on the left side.

And that's really the problem with it... There's nothing wrong with it in principle, the problem is all the jackasses trying to bend over backwards to give handhobs to the rich are too busy to notice the OTHER side of the curve. Take any idea that makes sense and ignore half of it and it's going to be crap.
 
glassa
2012-01-25 02:14:10 PM
Kazan: let's return to bill clinton rates

Marginal Tax Rate on Regular Income: over $250,000: 39.6% - over $288,350: 39.6%

Maximum Tax Rate on Long-Term Capital Gains: 29.19% - 21.19%

So we want to increase taxes on grandparents who sacrificed their entire lives and pay capital gains on the investments they hope to live on. Nice.
 
TravisBickle62
2012-01-25 02:14:13 PM
$400k isn't what it used to be 40 years ago
 
Rapmaster2000
2012-01-25 02:15:26 PM
HeadLever: meat0918: Curious, but why does your graph spike near 120% for Top Marginal Rate?

Yeah, I just noticed that too. That appears to be incorrect. Try this one:

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 353x275]

Hauser's Law: See you at the party, Richter.

/yes, i'm immature
 
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