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(Washington Post) Sad Okay, it's the morning after that beautiful speech, so go out and help round up those starry-eyed liberals still wandering around in a orgasmic daze and let them read over some Obama fact checking. Warning: be ready for weeping   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 141
More: Sad, State of the Union, President Obama, fact checking, errors of fact, bad debts, sectarian violence, Prime Minister Nouri, Energy Information Administration  
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4215 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Jan 2012 at 8:46 AM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



141 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-01-25 08:47:28 AM
I see the early talking points have been issued.
Shame Republicans can't put as much energy into fixing the country as they do hating the President.
 
2012-01-25 08:49:01 AM
How to 'check' facts with opinions, again.
 
2012-01-25 08:50:50 AM
Yes, U.S. troops have left Iraq, in part because the Obama administration was unwilling or unable - take your pick - to extend a security agreement with Iraq. Since the U.S. departure, Iraq has descended into violence as the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has targeted Sunni opposition figures. The country at times appears to teeter on the edge of a new outbreak of sectarian violence.

Which has nothing to do with the actual statement of US troops aren't in Iraq for the first time in 9 years. This is not fact checking, it's an editorial.

and so the carefully phrased claim of "we lost another four million before our policies were in full effect" is a stretch.

This is not fact checking, it's an editorial.

And he says "we've put in place" new rules on Wall Street, glossing over the fact that it had little Republican support and the GOP candidates have all vowed to repeal the Dodd-Frank law.

This is not fact checking, it's an editorial.

These are clearly lines crafted by political operatives. Few economists would blame "outsourcing" for the economic crisis;

This is not fact checking, it's an editorial.

"Phony financial profits" is also a bit puzzling. Perhaps it was not supposed to make sense.

That's not even an editorial, that's just another way of saying 'Meh, I didn't want to actually look up what he said.'

The claim that "some" wanted the auto industry to die is a bit of a straw man

No, Republicans were really cheering for GM to die. This is not fact checking, it's an editorial.

You know what? You get the idea. THIS IS NOT FACT CHECKING, IT IS AN EDITORIAL.

Come back with some actual fact checking, k?
 
2012-01-25 08:51:28 AM
I heard a bit of NPR starting in on the speech like Politifact this morning. 'Is this true? Yes, but there's a non-zero possibility that something else will happen instead.'
 
2012-01-25 08:51:43 AM
The killing of bin Laden, which Obama used to open and close his speech, is an achievement that few partisans would quibble with

Really? Every Republican I know at work had a LOT of quibbling about it. Everything from Obama is lying to it doesn't matter to Bush did it to "he said I or me seven times, he's so uppity!" Not one had a positive thing to say about it or was even glad Osama was dead.

They actually hated Obama more then Osama.
 
2012-01-25 08:52:55 AM
Let us stipulate that all of these job-creation claims are fairly bogus, given how every president is at the mercy of the business cycle, but it appears to be central to our politics.

It's only Obama's fault that we lost jobs. Any jobs created are from the business cycleTM

"Take the money we're no longer spending at war, use half of it to pay down our debt, and use the rest to do some nation-building right here at home."

This is fanciful budget math. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were funded with borrowed money, so what Obama is really asking for is an increase in domestic spending relative to the Pentagon. The United States is still running huge deficits, so none of this imagined savings would "pay down the debt" until the United States once again began running surpluses. Instead, his proposal would continue to add to the debt.


So, money that we were committed to spending, and no longer have to spend can't be counted at all. The only budget cuts that matter are the ones that Republicans want.

"Anyone who tells you otherwise, anyone who tells you that America is in decline or that our influence has waned, doesn't know what they're talking about. That's not the message we get from leaders around the world, all of whom are eager to work with us. That's not how people feel from Tokyo to Berlin; from Cape Town to Rio; where opinions of America are higher than they've been in years."

Obama's self-congratulatory tone aside, the most striking thing about this list is that it does not include any cities in the Islamic world. Obama had made a high-profile speech in Cairo in 2009 designed to bolster the U.S. image; judging by recent polling, his effort has been a failure.


You see, its Obama's fault the middle east hates us. If only he hadn't messed up that super important speech we'd be holding hands and taking windy walks


What a crock of shiat.
 
2012-01-25 08:53:07 AM
Doomed, got it.

/But I'm sure things would finally turn around for real if we elected President Romney and VP Gingrich.
 
2012-01-25 08:53:09 AM
There wasn't anything liberal in the speech, was there?
 
2012-01-25 08:53:46 AM
Yeah, there are a lot of quotes and the some vague passages that really dont show any kind of dishonesty. Im pretty unclear what im supposed to be mad about here.

The passage about soliders in Iraq is the best example. The author appears to be challenging that statement, hence pulling it, but his rebuttal never actually condradicts what the president said. Weird article.
 
2012-01-25 08:53:53 AM
Weeping? More like blindly reaching for feigned criticism by butt-hurt mouth breathing freepers.
 
2012-01-25 08:54:20 AM
Satanic_Hamster: "he said I or me seven times, he's so uppity!"

Does anyone describe someone as "uppity" if they aren't black? Genuinely curious.
 
2012-01-25 08:54:36 AM
Wyalt Derp: How to 'check' facts with opinions, again.

This.

Spelled out in detail by GAT_00

I was really hoping for a few facts he was wrong about.
 
2012-01-25 08:54:43 AM
Satanic_Hamster: They actually hated Obama more then Osama

To be fair, quite a few believe they're the same person.
 
2012-01-25 08:56:57 AM
I personally think every SOTU should simply be the President reading the fully detailed list of Federal Expenditures and Income for the last year in a monotone, matter of fact way without any additional commentary
 
2012-01-25 08:57:01 AM
jncgrasshopper: I was really hoping for a few facts he was wrong about.

Which there was. The opening bit about outsourcing was way too vague about how any of that actually works. That would have been a decent thing to talk about and demonstrate a lack of facts. But that wasn't as easy to write an editorial with I guess.
 
2012-01-25 08:57:24 AM
LOL

I used to follow the freerepublic SOTU threads when Dubya Bush was president and they were posting like it was Jesus Christ giving the Sermon on the Mount.
 
2012-01-25 08:57:30 AM
Thanks for saving us all a lot of typing, GAT_00.
 
2012-01-25 08:57:49 AM
 
2012-01-25 08:59:47 AM
well, yes, obama sucks, there is nothing new there. sadly the gop candidates all suck as well though. they still can't suck as much as obama.
 
2012-01-25 09:00:07 AM
Crap, hit the submit button before finishing...

The bankruptcy cheerleaders did not actually want the auto industry to *die*, but would have liked to erode the power of the UAW. So the issue is a bit more nuanced than the straw man in the article.

So... both sides are bad, I guess. Vote Republican!
 
2012-01-25 09:02:56 AM
A few "true", lots of "well yes but", no "false".
 
2012-01-25 09:03:24 AM
Satanic_Hamster: The killing of bin Laden, which Obama used to open and close his speech, is an achievement that few partisans would quibble with

Really? Every Republican I know at work had a LOT of quibbling about it. Everything from Obama is lying to it doesn't matter to Bush did it to "he said I or me seven times, he's so uppity!" Not one had a positive thing to say about it or was even glad Osama was dead.

They actually hated Obama more then Osama.


Pretty much sounds like the comments from republicans in the threads about it too.
 
2012-01-25 09:03:27 AM
lols. if these facts you speak of could derail liberal love for 0bama, it would have happened a while a go. they've drank too much kool-aide to come back to reality now.
 
2012-01-25 09:05:16 AM
CitizensUnited: lols. if these facts you speak of could derail liberal love for 0bama, it would have happened a while a go. they've drank too much kool-aide to come back to reality now.

Look it's back!

images.wikia.com
 
2012-01-25 09:08:08 AM
Parthenogenetic: Crap, hit the submit button before finishing...

The bankruptcy cheerleaders did not actually want the auto industry to *die*, but would have liked to erode the power of the UAW. So the issue is a bit more nuanced than the straw man in the article.

So... both sides are bad, I guess. Vote Republican!


They didn't want the auto industry to die, but the actions they were calling for would have killed the auto industry. Maybe one US car company could have limped through (probably Ford) with vastly diminished suppliers and market share. Maybe.
 
2012-01-25 09:08:19 AM
Still no plan to actually prevent the US from defaulting on our debts, I see.
 
2012-01-25 09:09:14 AM
State_College_Arsonist: Still no plan to actually prevent the US from defaulting on our debts, I see.

Here's a plan:

Stop cockblocking the debt ceiling for political gain
 
2012-01-25 09:09:37 AM
proteus_b: well, yes, obama sucks, there is nothing new there. sadly the gop candidates all suck as well though. they still can't suck as much as obama.

herp?
 
2012-01-25 09:11:46 AM
proteus_b: well, yes, obama sucks, there is nothing new there. sadly the gop candidates all suck as well though. they still can't suck as much as obama.

Way to go! That statement was just as informative as the article!
 
2012-01-25 09:12:03 AM
Satanic_Hamster: They actually hated Obama more then Osama.

Well, of course. Osama wasn't black.
 
2012-01-25 09:12:28 AM
CitizensUnited: lols. if these facts you speak of could derail liberal love for 0bama, it would have happened a while a go. they've drank too much kool-aide to come back to reality now.

Ha ha, you use the numeral zero as the "O" in Obama, you must be a real witty motherfarker. How farking original, gee, I've never seen that before.
 
2012-01-25 09:12:29 AM
Talk about crying over spilt milk.
 
2012-01-25 09:13:05 AM
State_College_Arsonist: Still no plan to actually prevent the US from defaulting on our debts, I see.


What plan could he make that would work? Congress sends him a budget, then the Congress doesn't approve paying the debts they authorized in the budget. This is a problem with Congress.
 
2012-01-25 09:16:32 AM
So when do we impeach 0'Bastard?
 
2012-01-25 09:17:25 AM
Parthenogenetic: GAT_00: The claim that "some" wanted the auto industry to die is a bit of a straw man

No, Republicans were really cheering for GM to die. This is not fact checking, it's an editorial.

Yep. Five seconds with Google yields this:

"General Motors, the nation's largest automaker, should stop receiving bailout money and declare bankruptcy, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and another top GOP leader said Sunday.

McCain and House Republican leader John Boehner said on "Fox News Sunday" that the car company could emerge stronger than ever if it hands its keys to the bankruptcy court rather than soaking up government cash.

"I think the best thing that could probably happen to General Motors, in my view, is they go into Chapter 11," Fox News reported McCain said on the program. "They reorganize, they renegotiate ... the union-management contracts and come out of it a stronger, better, leaner more competitive automotive industry."

McCain and Boehner both said that the Obama administration made a mistake in letting GM fail, and that future bailout funds should be doled out with more discretion and careful consideration of long-term consequences." (new window)


Bankruptcy != death
 
2012-01-25 09:18:29 AM
What an editorial pile.
 
2012-01-25 09:20:20 AM
adamgreeney: The author appears to be challenging that statement, hence pulling it, but his rebuttal never actually condradicts what the president said. Weird article.

You must be new to Obama "fact-checking".
 
2012-01-25 09:21:49 AM
CPennypacker: State_College_Arsonist: Still no plan to actually prevent the US from defaulting on our debts, I see.

Here's a plan:

Stop cockblocking the debt ceiling for political gain


If there is one thing I've learned from late-night bankruptcy lawyer commercials, it is that we can always borrow our way to prosperity.
 
2012-01-25 09:22:47 AM
State_College_Arsonist: Still no plan to actually prevent the US from defaulting on our debts, I see.


The debt is issued in a currency the government has control over. It's functionally impossible for us to default due to a lack of dollars. It would instead just be inflated away.

Inflation of that kind brings it's own set of issues, but default? No chance unless we actively choose to do so.
 
2012-01-25 09:24:04 AM
I'm a fan of the inane barely literate non sequitur word salads that AP calls "FACT CHECKS."
 
2012-01-25 09:24:47 AM
FTA:"Phony financial profits" is also a bit puzzling. Perhaps it was not supposed to make sense.

"Nnnyes... I'm sure I have no idea what he's talking about. Wall Street has always been on the up-and-up, especially during the credit bubble."
 
2012-01-25 09:25:09 AM
I_C_Weener: CPennypacker: State_College_Arsonist: Still no plan to actually prevent the US from defaulting on our debts, I see.

Here's a plan:

Stop cockblocking the debt ceiling for political gain

If there is one thing I've learned from late-night bankruptcy lawyer commercials, it is that we can always borrow our way to prosperity.


Racking up too much debt and defaulting on it are two different things, friend. Why do you think we had a AAA rating? Why do you think treasury rates are so low and considered "risk free?" Because we can print money to pay the debts.
 
2012-01-25 09:25:29 AM
I_C_Weener: If there is one thing I've learned from late-night bankruptcy lawyer commercials, it is that we can always borrow our way to prosperity.

Actually, I think you may have learned that the path to prosperity is to just stop paying your bills.
 
2012-01-25 09:26:31 AM
GameSprocket: I_C_Weener: If there is one thing I've learned from late-night bankruptcy lawyer commercials, it is that we can always borrow our way to prosperity.

Actually, I think you may have learned that the path to prosperity is to just stop paying your bills.


I also learned a lot about RonCo products. Set it and forget it.
 
2012-01-25 09:26:32 AM
I_C_Weener: borrow our way to prosperity.

I love how the self-proclaimed business party pretends not to understand the relationship of debt and growth.
 
2012-01-25 09:27:21 AM
I_C_Weener: CPennypacker: State_College_Arsonist: Still no plan to actually prevent the US from defaulting on our debts, I see.

Here's a plan:

Stop cockblocking the debt ceiling for political gain

If there is one thing I've learned from late-night bankruptcy lawyer commercials, it is that we can always borrow our way to prosperity.


If the interest rate is lower than the inflation rate, yes.
 
2012-01-25 09:30:43 AM
How about this one--

FACT: The volume of Right Wing Butt Hurt* on the various intertubes this morning indicates that the President knocked it out of the park last night.

*Preview of this November?
 
2012-01-25 09:31:28 AM
GAT_00: You know what? You get the idea. THIS IS NOT FACT CHECKING, IT IS AN EDITORIAL.

Come back with some actual fact checking, k?


This is blatantly false as some Republicans would disagree with your assessment.
 
2012-01-25 09:31:41 AM
I don't see a lot of fact-challenging. There is a lot of opinion disagreement with the President sprinkled with a large amount of: 'See the President is trying to act like he did this but he doesn't deserve the credit'.

I think that like conservapedia, foxnews and the conservative bible Conservatives found that "fact-checking" has a liberal bias so they are starting there own brand with the right amount of "fair and balance".

/you're doing it wrong
 
2012-01-25 09:33:49 AM
"Let us stipulate that all of these job-creation claims are fairly bogus, given how every president is at the mercy of the business cycle, but it appears to be central to our politics."

A more general statement that says job losses, too, are at the mercy of "the business cycle" would have been better.

While the Post had a lukewarm reaction, but it was a weak luke-warm and not terribly well supported.
 
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