quick. pardon his assistant's chief of staff.

Torture is illegal. A war crime. The CIA and the Bush administration broke the law. So, naturally, we refuse to prosecute any of them but prosecute the person who talked about it. Par for the course.

Kind of a confusing article. Were the operatives still working covertly when the aid committed the leak?

Anyway, it was wrong when Valerie Plame was outed, and it is wrong now. The difference is that this guy was acting on behalf of the administration when he leaked the names, so he will likely be prosecuted.

Also, he was outing guys, so no hot chicks coming to light.

Well now I expect liberals to be absolutely outraged and demand arrests immediately, just like they did every other time leaks and sensitive information came out...

Oh wait, the only time they were mad about that was when it compromised nothing and didn't matter... But it was an excuse to go after the Bush administration so throw those reporters in JAIL for not revealing their sources.

"Former Kerry aide allegedly committed treason in 2007 before he worked as an aide for Kerry"

/Libby...Plame...yada yada...

Sorry subby, he's charged with treason. It's a safe bet anyone who works for Kerry is guilty of treason just on that basis alone, but while we still have some remaining shards of rule of law, due process and presumption of innocence, lets use them every chance we get.

As usual, Glenn Greenwald describes how this works in terms that should force people to justify it or oppose it without obfuscating the fact that it's happening, so instead, people in power just ignore his points. Link

Oh, are people still caring about John Kerry?

Farking ridiculous.

randomjsa: Oh wait, the only time they were mad about that was when it compromised nothing and didn't matter... But it was an excuse to go after the Bush administration so throw those reporters in JAIL for not revealing their sources.

Yeah, I guess we didn't really need to be able to track nuclear materials in Iran. No worries there.

Nem Wan


Torture is illegal. A war crime. The CIA and the Bush administration broke the law. So, naturally, we refuse to prosecute any of them but prosecute the person who talked about it. Par for the course.

When done properly and with the proper equipment, torture can be very intense and rewarding.

GameSprocket: Kind of a confusing article. Were the operatives still working covertly when the aid committed the leak?

Anyway, it was wrong when Valerie Plame was outed, and it is wrong now. The difference is that this guy was acting on behalf of the administration when he leaked the names, so he will likely be prosecuted.

Also, he was outing guys, so no hot chicks coming to light.

The president has final authority on classified information. If he decides something is unclassified it is unclassified. By definition if the president releases classified information, it is no longer classified. So it is not illegal if he released information on the word of the administration.

Maybe the CIA could use codenames like the KGB did instead of letting everyone know their agent's farking real names.... And learn how to fly RC planes.

DammitIForgotMyLogin: randomjsa: Well now I expect liberals to be absolutely outraged and demand arrests immediately, just like they did every other time leaks and sensitive information came out...

Oh wait, the only time they were mad about that was when it compromised nothing and didn't matter... But it was an excuse to go after the Bush administration so throw those reporters in JAIL for not revealing their sources.

So, to recap, in your world:

Outing a CIA operative in retribution because her husband told the country that the President was trying to lie to them: A-OK

Outing CIA operatives for torturing people and breaking various laws: Beyond evil, and deserving of serious punishment


Is that about it?

So to recap:

Intentionally misreading what rJSA actually wrote to score cheap points for your team: A-OK.

Was it light treason?

I see the derp squad has already sent an operative to threadshiat.

beta_plus: DammitIForgotMyLogin: randomjsa: Well now I expect liberals to be absolutely outraged and demand arrests immediately, just like they did every other time leaks and sensitive information came out...

Oh wait, the only time they were mad about that was when it compromised nothing and didn't matter... But it was an excuse to go after the Bush administration so throw those reporters in JAIL for not revealing their sources.

So, to recap, in your world:

Outing a CIA operative in retribution because her husband told the country that the President was trying to lie to them: A-OK

Outing CIA operatives for torturing people and breaking various laws: Beyond evil, and deserving of serious punishment


Is that about it?

So to recap:

Intentionally misreading what rJSA actually wrote to score cheap points for your team: A-OK.

To review:

Pointing out the intellectual inconsistency of the original poster's strawman: "intentionally misreading" and "scoring cheap points" for some "team".

Setting up strawmen: totes cool.

randomjsa: Well now I expect liberals to be absolutely outraged and demand arrests immediately, just like they did every other time leaks and sensitive information came out...

Oh wait, the only time they were mad about that was when it compromised nothing and didn't matter... But it was an excuse to go after the Bush administration so throw those reporters in JAIL for not revealing their sources.

Didn't I ask you to stop speaking for liberals. You have no idea what your talking about. If this guy outed CIA Operatives he belongs in jail. No question about it.

/Seriously, you need to remember this. We don't tell you what you think. Stop telling us what we think.

MyRandomName: The president has final authority on classified information. If he decides something is unclassified it is unclassified. By definition if the president releases classified information, it is no longer classified. So it is not illegal if he released information on the word of the administration.

Funny, it seems that Bush's own executive order (new window) requires a specific procedure for declassifying information. Please point out the "I can do whatever I want" clause.

s1ugg0: /Seriously, you need to remember this. We don't tell you what you think. Stop telling us what we think.

You would have to teach him how to think before you can tell him what to think.

He was NOT a Kerry "Aide" he was an investigator working for the entire Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. Thus, he was as much an underling to EVERY Senator on the Committee as he was to Kerry (Kerry just happened to be chairman of the committee.) So, If Kerry is the "bad guy" in all of this, the rest of these people must likewise share in the blame: (Half of them being Republicans)


Richard Lugar
Barbara Boxer
Robert Menendez
Benjamin L. Cardin
Robert P. Casey Jr
Jim Webb
Jeanne Shaheen
Christopher Coons
Richard J. Durbin
Tom Udall
Bob Corker
James E. Risch
Marco Rubio
James M. Inhofe
Jim DeMint
Johnny Isakson
John Barrasso
Mike Lee

Hydra: s1ugg0: /Seriously, you need to remember this. We don't tell you what you think. Stop telling us what we think.

O RLY?

Exhibit A:

DammitIForgotMyLogin: So, to recap, in your world:

Outing a CIA operative in retribution because her husband told the country that the President was trying to lie to them: A-OK

Outing CIA operatives for torturing people and breaking various laws: Beyond evil, and deserving of serious punishment


Is that about it?

Summary of position, not speaking for others.


Exhibit B*:

FlashHarry: this is what republicans actually believe.


This statement usually follows someone stating what they believe, so also not speaking for anyone.


*This exhibit can also be seen in some form or fashion in almost every Fark politics thread submitted for the past three years.

/you guys broad-brush as badly as the opposition you hate so much

You should start a fact-checking service!

THAT'S IT

I'm voting for Bush

It was John Kerry's fault! John Kerry is responsible for the actions of a guy who indirectly worked for him and other Senators, because... I don't know, because it's politically expedient to play up a tenuous link between a criminal and someone we don't like.

part of the problem: Sorry subby, he's charged with treason. It's a safe bet anyone who works for Kerry is guilty of treason just on that basis alone, but while we still have some remaining shards of rule of law, due process and presumption of innocence, lets use them every chance we get.

This is Fark.
That only applies to liberals here.

randomjsa: Well now I expect liberals to be absolutely outraged and demand arrests immediately, just like they did every other time leaks and sensitive information came out...

Oh wait, the only time they were mad about that was when it compromised nothing and didn't matter... But it was an excuse to go after the Bush administration so throw those reporters in JAIL for not revealing their sources.

Well, now I expect conservatards to be absolutely fine with this and demand we pay attention to something more important like job creation.

Oh wait, the only time they were fine with this was when it their guy did it. But now it is just an excuse to go after the Obama administration.

/suck it

indylaw: It was John Kerry's fault! John Kerry is responsible for the actions of a guy who indirectly worked for him and other Senators, because...the whole buck stops here thing..

indylaw: It was John Kerry's fault! John Kerry is responsible for the actions of a guy who indirectly worked for him and other Senators, because... I don't know, because it's politically expedient to play up a tenuous link between a criminal and someone we don't like.

Because SWIFTBOATS!

Nem Wan: Torture is illegal. A war crime. The CIA and the Bush administration broke the law. So, naturally, we refuse to prosecute any of them but prosecute the person who talked about it. Par for the course.

Exactly. I am beginning to hate the CIA so much. I've begun to feel the CIA is the greatest threat to America and our Constitution.

If you read the Greenwald article, and then look up the Espionage Act of 1917, almost all of the prosecutions under it since Obama took over were for whistleblowing leaks to journalists.

And meanwhile, over on his 2008 campaign website...

•Protect Whistleblowers: Often the best source of information about waste, fraud, and abuse in government is an existing government employee committed to public integrity and willing to speak out. Such acts of courage and patriotism, which can sometimes save lives and often save taxpayer dollars, should be encouraged rather than stifled. We need to empower federal employees as watchdogs of wrongdoing and partners in performance. Barack Obama will strengthen whistleblower laws to protect federal workers who expose waste, fraud, and abuse of authority in government. Obama will ensure that federal agencies expedite the process for reviewing whistleblower claims and whistleblowers have full access to courts and due process.


And by "protect", he meant prosecute with 100x the vigor of those who commited the abuses being revealed. The very last line is also now sinister, instead of reassuring.

GameSprocketYou should start a fact-checking service!

Thanks. I'm at work so you saved me the hassle of the rebuttal.

Hydra, I'd recommend brushing up on your critical reading skills. Also I don't hate Republicans. I am often confused, amused, and on occasion tickled by them. But I never hate them.

I don't hate other Americans for expressing their views. I just disagree. That's the difference between a Liberal and the Far Right Hate machine these days.

2wolves: The Obama administration is charging whistle blowers across the board.

This is another great failing of his administration.

That's the real story here. We almost gave someone the opportunity to hold a torturer legally accountable. And we can't have that.

Also, people may want to consider that there's an actual criminal offense called treason and what this guy is charged with isn't that, and instead he's being charged under the much more malleable and poorly defined Espionage Act, which the Obama administration has used for prosecution more than all others, combined.

john kerry sucks, but a better headline would read
"cia agent accused of treason worked for two years as an investigator for a senate committee headed by john kerry

So investigate whether he, in fact, broke the law and whether he is covered by existing "whistleblower" protections. If there is a strong case that he broke the law and is not covered as a whistleblower then prosecute him.

Seriously, what is all the fuss about?

Aexia: You guys realize that Kiriakou is a big *proponent* of using torture, right?

He wasn't whistleblowing to the press; he was cheerleading. He's pretty much the main source for right-wing claims that "torture works".

And you realize that's not what prompted the criminal investigation and charge? He was free to defend torture, but it became a crime worthy of prosecution when he allegedly gave detainees information that could be used in their defense.

Karma Curmudgeon: which the Obama administration has used for prosecution more than all others, combined.


Almost. While he has used it with alarming frequency, he has not used it more then the others combined.

What he has done more then all his predecessors is prosecute JOURNALISTS with it.

Previous presidents have prosecuted journalists under the Espionage Act of 1917 only three times. Obama is at six already.

Bah, I screwed up that last post.

The six prosecutions involve leaks TO journalists. It is not the journalists themselves being tried.

Aexia: So what's the problem with the charge?


The big problem is that he is being charged under the farking 1917 Espionage Act, and not under something more appropriate like the "Mishandling Classified Information" statutes.

Do you feel his actions met the requirements that he had threatened the security or military operations of the United States?

The Act was not meant to be a bludgeon where simple embarassment is treated as if it represented an existential threat to our country.

Cubicle Jockey: Almost. While he has used it with alarming frequency, he has not used it more then the others combined.

What he has done more then all his predecessors is prosecute JOURNALISTS with it.

Previous presidents have prosecuted journalists under the Espionage Act of 1917 only three times. Obama is at six already.

Thank you for clarifying. My mistake.

Aexia: But he's obviously *not* a whistle blower; he thinks torture should be used *more* often. So what's the problem with the charge?

First, whether he is or is not a legal whistleblower is irrelevant to what I have posted here. Second, the legal protection of whistle blower status is not dependent upon whether one is opposed to or an advocate of the illegal activity about which evidence is divulged.

The problem with the charge is that the most.transparent.administration.evar. has once again ignored the prosecution of felonies in favor of prosecuting those that discuss them.