EnviroDude: Dodd was a democrat. Would you expect anything less from them?

Yeah. Because only one party lies...

EnviroDude: Dodd was a democrat. Would you expect anything less from them?

shivashakti: Yeah. Because only one party lies...

This is why we never get anywhere.

/ If civics was a NES game it's time to blow on the effin' cartridge

Why does Wil Wheaton hate creativity? And since creativity is what makes America great, why does Wil Wheaton hate America?

How is it that there is someone that doesn't have that worthless little troll on ignore?

UNC_Samurai: How is it that there is someone that doesn't have that worthless little troll on ignore?

What? Wil's a good guy.

/Awesome in that most recentLeverage episode, btw Wil.

DON.MAC: The MPAA is much like the RIAA in that they don't want more products. It turns out that the more plastic discs you have to move around, the more it costs and if you can get everyone to buy the same set of discs, its much cheaper. There are about 300,000 new albums made in the USA every year but the existing record industry can't cope with distribution of that many plastic discs so they do their best to make sure no one knows there is that much new material around and playing games with accounting is just one of the many tools in their toolbox. Even if most of those new albums aren't any good, how many did you even know about?

great, now all the bands I listen to are known about. Thanks

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: UNC_Samurai: How is it that there is someone that doesn't have that worthless little troll on ignore?

What? Wil's a good guy.

/Awesome in that most recentLeverage episode, btw Wil.

Think UNC was talking about EnviroDud.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: /Awesome in that most recentLeverage episode, btw Wil.

Totally THIS!

Loved the line where he wanted Parker dressed up as Counselor Troi. Or was it Sophie? Anyway I'll be in my bunk

Although he wasn't speaking of piracy specifically, J. Michael Straczynski (the guy who created Babylon 5) used to say the same thing about Hollywood accounting methods in the late 90s (and probably still does). It's setup so that every movie, every TV show, loses money on paper. Even blockbuster movies that pull in hundreds of millions of dollars more than it cost to make them lose money. And it's all done to screw over the actors, screenwriters, directors, camera people -- ie., the creators.

It's a system based on fraud, yet they cry like a bunch of little biatches when they get screwed.

I am sure someone, at some point, in this thread will come in and play the 'starving artist' card, possibly use the word 'theft' in relation to small scale non-money making copyright infringement and try to take the moral high ground.

Problem is none of these groups give a shiat about you or your work. If MegaUpload, Pirate Bay, Mininova or any of the other sites had turned around and handed the MPAA, RIAA and ESA a bunch of money they really wouldn't give a shiat that you saw your hard work flash past in a tornado of torrents; they got theirs.

Take your average production companies video vault. Full to the brim of crap from the 80's and 90's that made money but wasn't popular enough to push out on pre-recorded tapes/DVD's. But if you upload a VHS rip of it to YouTube you happen to have you'll get DCMA'd.

That's fair enough; no problem with them defending their rights but why aren't they pushing their defunct content to YouTube and just letting the ad revenue trickle in occasionally? It'd certainly make more money than it currently does sat in the video vault that much is for sure.

Nope, rather sue you.

Wil is a really good writer. It's good to see someone actually call a liar a liar.

And also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1oWPqcWt8Es (new window)

The absolute best thing for creative industries (music, video games, film) would be if every single successful artist out there...and I mean ALL of them (think of the James Camerons, Steven Spielbergs, Will Wrights, and whoever is the most popular in music right now), all went independent, handling everything from distribution to marketing, which would completely deprive the MPAA and RIAA of any power to do anything. Unfortunately, that would never happen, partly because they have contracts with said studios and distributors, but mostly because they have a monopoly on distribution and marketing.

But, a man can dream.

In my line of work over the last 22 years, I've interviewed more recording artists than I can count (A few no-names, but mostly well known big label artists) and I make it a point to ask them what they think of how the labels are handling the whole piracy thing... So far, not one has been on the labels' side on the issue.

Some artists are all gung-ho pro-sue everybody like Metallica, but so far I haven't met one.

The government isn't trying to pass SOPA because of piracy. It is nothing more then another federal power grab.

Imagine if Hollywood released a Netflix-like app that worked on gaming consoles and mobile devices that let you rent new releases for $20 while they were still in theaters. They would make hundreds more off of me per year. I would rather watch movies I've already seen on Netflix than go to a theater for a new release. I have a couch and a 50 inch HDTV. Theaters have kids and $12 popcorn.

/not a pirate, just completely dumbfounded by the movie studios' "business model"

GibbyTheMole: So far, not one has been on the labels' side on the issue.

I think that's in thanks part to the internet and the very public court case George Michael had over his recording contract. Previously it would have been much easier to strong arm people by saying, as an example, "Why you biatching? You don't see Nine Inch Nails complain do you? Exactly, now get back out there and do what I'm paying you for." You could write off X as a malcontent and not to be listened to.

Now a quick google shows actually, they weren't malcontents and the 'rights protecting group' are nothing of the sort.

Bleyo:

/not a pirate, just completely dumbfounded by the movie studios' "business model"

Imagine a totally region unlocked Hulu like thing stuffed full of, actual, content. Old content, new content, random shiat we found in the vault content and it shows you a 10s advert before it starts playing. I'd also accept it requiring a subscription and offering still at cinema movies for additional money.

I say 'totally region unlocked' because as much as you Americans want to get your grubby little paws on things like BBC iPlayer, I want to get my dirty little European paws on things like Hulu.

sarah_t_s: That's fair enough; no problem with them defending their rights but why aren't they pushing their defunct content to YouTube and just letting the ad revenue trickle in occasionally? It'd certainly make more money than it currently does sat in the video vault that much is for sure.

What you're pointing out here is the sinister key to their real business model. The RIAA and MPAA are considered distributors, but that's not their game. The distribution is just a means to an end; they're really gatekeepers.

The reason why they fight on-line distribution to this day isn't because they're dinosaurs, per se. They are, but the problem with on-line distribution is that, running off a publicly financed infrastructure, the entry costs for competition are too low for their comfort. Back when becoming a professional artist was about who you know and equipment cost a lot of money, they made bank by being the only game in town. Now a competitor can start up in an effin' basement. Nyan Cat is an effin' meme and it's up to 60 million hits. To us it's just a funny waste of time, but if you're an entertainment gatekeeper, the thought of something that some nobody made in a couple hours reaching that many people (even if the majority are addiction hits) without any middleman makes you shiat bricks. That's a sort of power that, in their eyes, everyday people just aren't supposed to have. That was their one power -- "only we can make you famous" -- and they've lost it. They're obsolete and they're terrified, so they'd rather burn the entire world than give up the easy money they had from being a de facto monopoly distributor.

Toquinha: The absolute best thing for creative industries (music, video games, film) would be if every single successful artist out there...and I mean ALL of them (think of the James Camerons, Steven Spielbergs, Will Wrights, and whoever is the most popular in music right now), all went independent, handling everything from distribution to marketing, which would completely deprive the MPAA and RIAA of any power to do anything. Unfortunately, that would never happen, partly because they have contracts with said studios and distributors, but mostly because they have a monopoly on distribution and marketing.

But, a man can dream.

Book publishing is going that way with the rise of eBooks and the ability to self publish.

This is the first time when I've agreed with everyone in a Fark thread. All the smart folks must be hanging out in this thread for some reason.

The hell did I do?

GibbyTheMole: In my line of work over the last 22 years, I've interviewed more recording artists than I can count (A few no-names, but mostly well known big label artists) and I make it a point to ask them what they think of how the labels are handling the whole piracy thing... So far, not one has been on the labels' side on the issue.

Some artists are all gung-ho pro-sue everybody like Metallica, but so far I haven't met one.

If it isn't happening already, I'm wouldn't be surprised if a band/singer basically says fark the labels and decides to put out their music on their own to d/l legally.

When that happens and people respond by legally d/l millions of copies: Goodbye music labels and RIAA.

sarah_t_s: Bleyo:

/not a pirate, just completely dumbfounded by the movie studios' "business model"

Imagine a totally region unlocked Hulu like thing stuffed full of, actual, content. Old content, new content, random shiat we found in the vault content and it shows you a 10s advert before it starts playing. I'd also accept it requiring a subscription and offering still at cinema movies for additional money.

I say 'totally region unlocked' because as much as you Americans want to get your grubby little paws on things like BBC iPlayer, I want to get my dirty little European paws on things like Hulu.

Works for me.

hubiestubert: sarah_t_s: Bleyo:

/not a pirate, just completely dumbfounded by the movie studios' "business model"

Imagine a totally region unlocked Hulu like thing stuffed full of, actual, content. Old content, new content, random shiat we found in the vault content and it shows you a 10s advert before it starts playing. I'd also accept it requiring a subscription and offering still at cinema movies for additional money.

I say 'totally region unlocked' because as much as you Americans want to get your grubby little paws on things like BBC iPlayer, I want to get my dirty little European paws on things like Hulu.

Pretty much. And you know what? I don't mind paying for Hulu or Netflix. It's easier for me than cable. I will pay for a service, and even sit through a few ads on occasion, and I'm good with it. The models are there, but they aren't optimized for maximum profitability, and instead of capitalizing on a new market model, folks are invested to try to creak along, and spend millions to preserve a model that isn't working, and rail on fact that it's not working, and try to stuff the damn genie back in the bottle...

I yearn for the day we get "a la carte" pricing for any program and/or show that tickles your fancy.

sarah_t_s: The hell did I do?

You know where you are and you're still wearing pants? Then put your head down and pretend nothing happened.

Actually, do that even if you're not wearing pants.

Rwa2play: GibbyTheMole: In my line of work over the last 22 years, I've interviewed more recording artists than I can count (A few no-names, but mostly well known big label artists) and I make it a point to ask them what they think of how the labels are handling the whole piracy thing... So far, not one has been on the labels' side on the issue.

Some artists are all gung-ho pro-sue everybody like Metallica, but so far I haven't met one.

If it isn't happening already, I'm wouldn't be surprised if a band/singer basically says fark the labels and decides to put out their music on their own to d/l legally.

When that happens and people respond by legally d/l millions of copies: Goodbye music labels and RIAA.

Radiohead did this with at least one album already, and of course the Louis C.K. thing just within the last month or two.

The MPAA and RIAA want nothing more than to return to a earlier time, a "better" time when they could control media content, distribution and all, forcing us to consume how they wish us to. In the 20th century, they dictated when you could watch, what you could watch, how often you could consume, and (of course) the cost of all of that. The Internet has set this model on fire and urinated on its ashes. Content can be demanded as desired. worse, the availability of open connectivity to other individuals has allowed us the ability to modify and re-distribute works that will be consumed by others. That is truly terrifying to them. Not only are they losing their grip on the how and when, but the very nature of the material itself is being changed. Much like people that no longer use land-lines in their homes, there are people that no longer have a television in the traditional sense. They either rely on a digital recorder to watch shows when they want or they rely almost solely on the Internet for entertainment.

The most ludicrous thing about that loss of control is that it doesn't have to be this way! I am fully willing to pay a modest fee each month for a service that allows me access to content when I want it. Sort of like Netflix but with no restrictions on what is released on it and when. Being a Canadian, the content there was not enticing. I don't want 20 year old movies or ones that were never popular from 4 - 5 years ago. I don't want a mere 10 television shows, most from the eighties. I want current content now. And, again, the stupidity of this is that I'm willing to pay for that content. Just give me the opportunity. Don't fight piracy - out-compete it. A dedicated service, full quality content, on demand with no local storage issues? JUST SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

Oddly, the lack of these unifying services or ones that offer the works instead of bits and pieces has created a strange effect. I consume more Internet content. Read that carefully - content that (other than my connection to get on) that is free. I consume more user generated content than I consume of "commercial" content. This is, one might imagine, a direct result of the lack of ability to get the other "main-stream" content as I want. I consume more "amateur" material. Only thing is that as time goes by, that content begins to appeal more and more to me and the stuff on the television and such becomes less and less noteworthy. Most of us here can relate to this - how much time does the frequent farker spend here? Commenting on the news, debating with each other, editing pictures for our collective amusement?

That should be the biggest threat to them - so called "piracy" of their content is keeping that content in our faces and, as a result, is keeping it relevant. Get tough on the Internet trading that stuff around and it is very likely that the little content creator, the independent guy on youtube making his or her own thing, gets more traffic, more views and more support. The people putting off their own dramas or comedies. The people doing cheap and entertaining action sequences. These people can become world famous in an hour and, unlike the Internet of 2001, they can actually make money from the content. Who here hasn't bought a indie album that they offered for free? Or a indie game bundle? Or Minecraft? Or donated to a content providers Paypal? How many here have helped someone get a better mic or camera or helped raise the money for a documentary? The Internet is no longer the haven of broke teenagers and has never been a den of thieves. It is now a revenue generator and it is not the content of the main-stream that is reaping that revenue. That should shock and scare them. And the more they fight it as they are, the more they push the rest of us into that line of consumption and creation.

lordaction: The government isn't trying to pass SOPA because of piracy. It is nothing more then another federal power grab.

You're either over-thinking this or buying into the myth that the federal government is some kind of sentient monolithic entity. The reality is much simpler: the MPAA, RIAA, and other associated and interested groups and lobbyists are lining elected officials' pockets.

Hey music/movie guys, read this thread. Listen to Wil. Stop being asshats. Like many of you, I'd love to pay to get the high quality content I want. Amateur stuff is great, but sometimes I want to watch that brand-new movie or a well polished show with expensive effects. But I often can't. Let me watch it when I want to watch it and where I want to watch it. Feel free to charge, but stop restricting everything to the point that I give up and just play here on Fark.

From a link in that post, quoting David "Darth Farking Vader" Pwose:

"I get these occasional letters from Lucasfilm saying that we regret to inform you that as Return of the Jedi has never gone into profit, we've got nothing to send you. Now here we're talking about one of the biggest releases of all time," said Prowse. "I don't want to look like I'm biatching about it," he said, "but on the other hand, if there's a pot of gold somewhere that I ought to be having a share of, I would like to see it."

WHAT.

EnviroDude: Dodd was a democrat. Would you expect anything less from them?

Just stop. You aren't funny, and you aren't helping.

/plonk

GibbyTheMole: In my line of work over the last 22 years, I've interviewed more recording artists than I can count (A few no-names, but mostly well known big label artists) and I make it a point to ask them what they think of how the labels are handling the whole piracy thing... So far, not one has been on the labels' side on the issue.

Some artists are all gung-ho pro-sue everybody like Metallica, but so far I haven't met one.

And of course the amusing thing about Metallica being that Hetfield and Ulrich reminisce in the liner notes of Garage Inc about how they used to copy lots of music to tape, and these weren't multi-million selling artists, but ones that sold only a handful of records and often had to give up on music due to lack of financial success.

blahpers: Pwose

Prowse. Dammit, Elmer's been at the keyboard again.

blahpers: From a link in that post, quoting David "Darth Farking Vader" Pwose:

He really, really, pissed Lucas off with the accidental reveal of who was Luke's farther. Not that he'd seen a script for Empire when he did it nor had anyone else as Lucas was still writing it.

Toquinha: The absolute best thing for creative industries (music, video games, film) would be if every single successful artist out there...and I mean ALL of them (think of the James Camerons, Steven Spielbergs, Will Wrights, and whoever is the most popular in music right now), all went independent, handling everything from distribution to marketing, which would completely deprive the MPAA and RIAA of any power to do anything. Unfortunately, that would never happen, partly because they have contracts with said studios and distributors, but mostly because they have a monopoly on distribution and marketing.

But, a man can dream.



I think it would be better if Netflix, Google, Amazon, and Apple, etc, actually started to use some of their cash to hire their own writers and actors and directors and whatnot AND PRODUCE THEIR OWN CONTENT TO COMPETE WITH THE MPAA/RIAA. No more kowtowing to the media bosses, kissing ass to get access to content.

(Is this what is happening with Arrested Development on Netflix?)

Embden.Meyerhof: I think it would be better if Netflix, Google, Amazon, and Apple, etc, actually started to use some of their cash to hire their own writers and actors and directors and whatnot AND PRODUCE THEIR OWN CONTENT TO COMPETE WITH THE MPAA/RIAA. No more kowtowing to the media bosses, kissing ass to get access to content.


No idea what the real pros and cons of the idea would be for them- but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a pissed-off Google, et al business alliance getting together for something like this in the wake of SOPA.

If MPAA/RIAA aren't careful, they could wind up in a fight with a much, much bigger dog than they imagine.

Embden.Meyerhof: No more kowtowing to the media bosses, kissing ass to get access to content.

The problem is the same as the video game industry. None of the big boys want to take the risks; so you get this years COD just as sure as you're gonna get Iron Man 3. And just like video games people would much rather watch a tried and test formula show than they would something new.

You can't even go after comic books for your IP, a lot of them that are remotely popular have already been brought. Fox (or is it Paramount) own the rights to Global Frequency, as an example, and since the leak of the failed pilot have said they will do nothing with it ever again. But they still own the rights.

It would be a very ballsy thing for those companies to do, not only make content yourselves but from fresh and original IP with no track record? Investors ain't gonna like that idea, especially from a technology company.

I too wish they would but I don't see it happening.

Embden.Meyerhof: Toquinha: The absolute best thing for creative industries (music, video games, film) would be if every single successful artist out there...and I mean ALL of them (think of the James Camerons, Steven Spielbergs, Will Wrights, and whoever is the most popular in music right now), all went independent, handling everything from distribution to marketing, which would completely deprive the MPAA and RIAA of any power to do anything. Unfortunately, that would never happen, partly because they have contracts with said studios and distributors, but mostly because they have a monopoly on distribution and marketing.

But, a man can dream.



I think it would be better if Netflix, Google, Amazon, and Apple, etc, actually started to use some of their cash to hire their own writers and actors and directors and whatnot AND PRODUCE THEIR OWN CONTENT TO COMPETE WITH THE MPAA/RIAA. No more kowtowing to the media bosses, kissing ass to get access to content.

(Is this what is happening with Arrested Development on Netflix?)

And Hulu as well. For example, the Booth at the End (new window) is very good. Hulu may be helping get Community renewed next year as well - it struck a deal with Sony over syndication rights (new window) and is in talks with NBC to do some cost sharing. More episodes mean more money over the long term for Hulu, after all.