EnviroDude: In other words, the bazzionaire in Obama's corner wins when everybody else loses.

I didn't lose anything.

HotWingConspiracy: EnviroDude: In other words, the bazzionaire in Obama's corner wins when everybody else loses.

I didn't lose anything.

How could you not notice king socialist FartBanjo stealing your freedom?

Perhaps the Occupy Wall Street and Tea Party movements were not clear enough.

STOP with this crony capitalism where the only people who succeed are the "friends" of the administration.

This is outrageous, and frankly more appalling than Chris Dodd's blatant bribery regarding SOPA.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid the only way out would be for Ron Paul to be President, but that will never happen. He doesn't have enough rich supporters.

EnviroDude: In other words, the bazzionaire in Obama's corner wins when everybody else loses.

What I love is a guy with a name of 'EnviroDude' is attempting to spin the "loss" of Canadians being able to easily use US property and facilities to transport, refine and export their horribly polluting tar-sands oil to other countries.

Oohh, the humanity!

In other news, setbacks for one industry often present opportunities for others.

This About That: I don't exactly recall, but didn't BH say at the time that they acquired BNSF because of the coal-hauling potential?

Coal, timber, oil, corn and a thousand other things. The rationale was basically, "no matter what the tech fad of the day is, people still need to haul stuff around".

A majority of people in Nebraska didn't want the Keystone XL pipeline built over the huge Ogalala aquifer in the west end of the state. Dear Leader just got a little wealthier with it not being built.

Way to go, Fartbongo. That pipeline was going to create 8.5 billion high paying jobs, but you'd rather sell us out to your billionaire friend! All you had to do was sign a piece of paper, and our unemployment rate would have dropped to 0% overnight. But nooooo, you just want to keep us all on welfare and dependent on the government so you can buy our vote.

//I'm actually not opposed to the pipeline, as long as it is done correctly. However, when the mouthpieces start spouting that it is going to create upwards of 1 million permanent, high paying jobs when the company that is actually building the pipeline says maybe a couple of hundred, the hyperbole is getting just a little too over-the-top.

//also, Boehner (among others, I'm sure) bought stock in the companies that would benefit from the pipeline in anticipation of it passing, so calling Obama out because Buffet's railroad is profiting instead is a tad hypocritical.

Oh good grief. The article is a totally pointless hypothetical exercise designed solely to tie Obama's decision (to reject fast-tracking approval) to potentially further enriching Warren Buffett. The reality is that Keystone will happen, but only after the EIAs for the new route around the aquifer have been completed.

And lost big time when the corn ethanol subsidies were allowed to expire, but that really doesn't fit the narrative now, does it?

apoptotic: Oh good grief. The article is a totally pointless hypothetical exercise designed solely to tie Obama's decision (to reject fast-tracking approval) to potentially further enriching Warren Buffett. The reality is that Keystone will happen, but only after the EIAs for the new route around the aquifer have been completed the election is over.

The Obama administration is pandering to an idiotic and quixotic crusade to keep the tar sands from being developed (or at least attempting to play both sides) but that will end win or lose after next October.

Iran shuts down Hormuz , Chavez gets ballsy , all those gulf refineries aren't getting oil and gas hits a bazillion dollars and we won't even have to wait even that long for the grown ups to have their say.

How is transporting a bazillion barrels of oil via heavy machinery rolling at high speed, controlled by people probably unqualified to captain a Carnival Cruise ship a less environmentally risky option than putting it thru a pipeline?

This About That: I don't exactly recall, but didn't BH say at the time that they acquired BNSF because of the coal-hauling potential?

They called it a bet on the economy.

Burlington Northern, the nation's second-largest railroad, is the biggest hauler of food products like corn, and coal for electricity, making it an indicator of the country's economic health. The railroad also ships a large amount of consumer goods - including items imported from Asia - from big Western ports like Los Angeles and Seattle.

II didn't even think it was that radical a buy. BNSF was undervalued. People still got to eat. People still need electricity. Railroads are a necessary part of that.

jjorsett: How is transporting a bazillion barrels of oil via heavy machinery rolling at high speed, controlled by people probably unqualified to captain a Carnival Cruise ship a less environmentally risky option than putting it thru a pipeline?

[i42.tinypic.com image 240x185]

Because one can easily see, and more simply clean up the leak from a tipped over train car or two (each carrying ~22,000 gallons), versus trying to find a leak from a pipeline buried 4-6 feet underground, carrying roughly 21,000,000 gallons a day.

HotWingConspiracy: EnviroDude: In other words, the bazzionaire in Obama's corner wins when everybody else loses.

I didn't lose anything.

Yes you did, because see, rich people don't pay enough in taxes. Every time some rich person makes even more money, we're supposed to be outraged because that hurts us somehow. Get with the program.

PirateFreedom:

Iran shuts down Hormuz Won't happen. Bluff already called.

Chavez gets ballsy The US is the largest buyer of Venezuelan oil. To stop taking our money will result in a complete loss of his power base. Besides, he'll be dead in a year.

the grown ups to have their say. Are you saying you want the Grown Ups to be in charge? Wow, it's 2000 all over again. Let's do the macarena.

Whoops, I meant ~21,000,000,000 gallons a day (0.59 Mbbl/d).

jjorsett: How is transporting a bazillion barrels of oil via heavy machinery rolling at high speed, controlled by people probably unqualified to captain a Carnival Cruise ship a less environmentally risky option than putting it thru a pipeline?

Oh, so very Mother-farking THIS !

/ You just made sense.
// That's against the rules here.
/// Prepare for incoming fire.

1macgeek: jjorsett: How is transporting a bazillion barrels of oil via heavy machinery rolling at high speed, controlled by people probably unqualified to captain a Carnival Cruise ship a less environmentally risky option than putting it thru a pipeline?

Oh, so very Mother-farking THIS !

/ You just made sense.
// That's against the rules here.
/// Prepare for incoming fire.

I bet you've got some great arguments about how electric cars are dumb because power plants burn fossil fuels too.

Rapmaster2000: I bet you've got some great arguments about how electric cars are dumb because power plants burn fossil fuels too.

Evidently not as many as you have strawmen built and ready to go.

mod3072: also, Boehner (among others, I'm sure) bought stock in the companies that would benefit from the pipeline in anticipation of it passing,

Where did you find that info?

1macgeek: Rapmaster2000: I bet you've got some great arguments about how electric cars are dumb because power plants burn fossil fuels too.

Evidently not as many as you have strawmen built and ready to go.

My bad. You only have one easily dismissed argument based on a flawed premise of the equalization of scale. Sorry.

A trolly headline in the Business tab, who'd a thunk it.

Yes, railroads will benefit, but all railroads will benefit, not just one. And it sounds like it will only be a temporary, until the Keystone folks get a new route together.

Buffett invested in Burlington because he sees a company that will always be needed (at least until teleportation becomes the norm) and they have managed to create some impressive revenues over time.

Bill Moyers interviews David Stockman.

Crony capitalism made simple.

EnviroDude: In other words, the bazzionaire in Obama's corner wins when everybody else loses.

What did you lose? If you don't know, I am prepared to tell you.

Rapmaster2000: 1macgeek: jjorsett: How is transporting a bazillion barrels of oil via heavy machinery rolling at high speed, controlled by people probably unqualified to captain a Carnival Cruise ship a less environmentally risky option than putting it thru a pipeline?

Oh, so very Mother-farking THIS !

/ You just made sense.
// That's against the rules here.
/// Prepare for incoming fire.

I bet you've got some great arguments about how electric cars are dumb because power plants burn fossil fuels too.

You call that incoming fire? You're shooting blanks. Go back, reload, and try again.

Rapmaster2000: My bad. You only have one easily dismissed argument based on a flawed premise of the equalization of scale. Sorry.

While you have the almighty "I Said So" counter-argument. This is me pointing and laughing at your sophomoric hijinks.

Dick Cheney's Halliburton comes up a winner from Obama administration's decision to implement NDAA to pay off Pentagon contracts

oh em gee oh em gee oh em gee

Big_Fat_Liar: Rapmaster2000: 1macgeek: jjorsett: How is transporting a bazillion barrels of oil via heavy machinery rolling at high speed, controlled by people probably unqualified to captain a Carnival Cruise ship a less environmentally risky option than putting it thru a pipeline?

Oh, so very Mother-farking THIS !

/ You just made sense.
// That's against the rules here.
/// Prepare for incoming fire.

I bet you've got some great arguments about how electric cars are dumb because power plants burn fossil fuels too.

You call that incoming fire? You're shooting blanks. Go back, reload, and try again.

Yeah, seriously, that pretty weak. You hit the nail on the head. However, I would rate shipping oil by train to the US as a less likely outcome by and large.

Link (new window)

PetroChina buys full stake in Canada oil sands project

"The Chinese have urged the Canadian government to approve a pipeline to Canada's Pacific coast so that tankers can ship oil sands crude to China. Sinopec, a Chinese state-controlled oil company, has a stake in a $5.5 billion plan drawn up by the Alberta-based Enbridge company to build the Northern Gateway Pipeline from Alberta to the Pacific coast province of British Columbia."

///that's what happens when you blink, America

Amagi: Big_Fat_Liar: Rapmaster2000: 1macgeek: jjorsett: How is transporting a bazillion barrels of oil via heavy machinery rolling at high speed, controlled by people probably unqualified to captain a Carnival Cruise ship a less environmentally risky option than putting it thru a pipeline?

Oh, so very Mother-farking THIS !

/ You just made sense.
// That's against the rules here.
/// Prepare for incoming fire.

I bet you've got some great arguments about how electric cars are dumb because power plants burn fossil fuels too.

You call that incoming fire? You're shooting blanks. Go back, reload, and try again.

Yeah, seriously, that pretty weak. You hit the nail on the head. However, I would rate shipping oil by train to the US as a less likely outcome by and large.

Link (new window)

PetroChina buys full stake in Canada oil sands project

"The Chinese have urged the Canadian government to approve a pipeline to Canada's Pacific coast so that tankers can ship oil sands crude to China. Sinopec, a Chinese state-controlled oil company, has a stake in a $5.5 billion plan drawn up by the Alberta-based Enbridge company to build the Northern Gateway Pipeline from Alberta to the Pacific coast province of British Columbia."

///that's what happens when you blink, America

You think getting that pipeline designed, permitted and built will be faster than redesigning and permitting the Keystone XL Pipeline routed around Nebraska?

I heard Newt Gingbiatch last night complain about the Keystone Pipeline being thwarted because of "The Environmentalists".
Fact is, that the pipeline would be crossing over 200 waterways (rivers, wetlands, etc) just to get down south.
Sorry, but you'd need impact statements ALL the way down. No way you're going to plow through without any pushback.
Man, those environmentalists sure ruin everything.

wutchamacallem: mod3072: also, Boehner (among others, I'm sure) bought stock in the companies that would benefit from the pipeline in anticipation of it passing,

Where did you find that info?

Here is the original story that was posted on Fark, which states: according to Boehner's financial disclosure forms, he invested $10,000 to $50,000 each in seven firms that had a stake in Canada's oil sands, the region that produces the oil the pipeline would transport. The firms include six oil companies-BP, Canadian Natural Resources, Chevron, Conoco Phillips, Devon Energy and Exxon-along with Emerson Electric, which has a contract to provide the digital automation for the first phase of a $9.4 billion Horizon Oil Sands Project in Canada. (new window)

That is, admittedly, from a biased source. If I get time, I'll see if I can find a better one.

Amagi:

"The Chinese have urged the Canadian government to approve a pipeline to Canada's Pacific coast so that tankers can ship oil sands crude to China. Sinopec, a Chinese state-controlled oil company, has a stake in a $5.5 billion plan drawn up by the Alberta-based Enbridge company to build the Northern Gateway Pipeline from Alberta to the Pacific coast province of British Columbia."

///that's what happens when you blink, America

Northern Gateway will never be built:

Court decisions, including at the Canadian Supreme Court level, have stipulated that first nations must be consulted and accommodated when their traditional lands are affected by industrial development.

Last month, more first nations signed their names to a declaration calling for an "unbroken wall of opposition" to pipelines and oil tankers along B.C.'s coast. More than 60 first nations along the pipeline route, Fraser River and coast have signed the declaration.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/First+nations+fiercely+opposed+Northe rn+Gateway/5937416/story.html#ixzz1kPCkNQe4

/this is what happens when you... well i don't know what you do that causes you to pretend it's the end of the world because Keystone couldn't open a companion tar sand pipeline to go with the tar sand pipelines to the United States that they've already opened, but whatever.



The evil, tar sand hating Fartbongo has allowed two tar sand pipelines to be built since taking office. If a third one is not completed to Beaumont then the Red Chinese will kill us all.

Now that's a strawman, biatches.

Amagi:
PetroChina buys full stake in Canada oil sands project

"The Chinese have urged the Canadian government to approve a pipeline to Canada's Pacific coast so that tankers can ship oil sands crude to China. Sinopec, a Chinese state-controlled oil company, has a stake in a $5.5 billion plan drawn up by the Alberta-based Enbridge company to build the Northern Gateway Pipeline from Alberta to the Pacific coast province of British Columbia."

///that's what happens when you blink, America

Sinopec invested in Syncrude in 2010, not as a response to America blinking on Keystone. Chinese investment in the oil sands is a long term strategy, not a knee-jerk response to US/Canada trade hiccups. Northern Gateway and Keystone really have very little to do with one another. The narrative is just that Canada is "focused" on selling to China right now because the Northern Gateway hearings are currently underway and Keystone is (as far as public/gov't input from Canada goes) stalled until the EIAs for the new route are completed.

max_pooper: You think getting that pipeline designed, permitted and built will be faster than redesigning and permitting the Keystone XL Pipeline routed around Nebraska?

Do you honestly think China would not be willing to ship 100,000 people to Canada to make it happen?

PirateFreedom: apoptotic: Oh good grief. The article is a totally pointless hypothetical exercise designed solely to tie Obama's decision (to reject fast-tracking approval) to potentially further enriching Warren Buffett. The reality is that Keystone will happen, but only after the EIAs for the new route around the aquifer have been completed the election is over.

The Obama administration is pandering to an idiotic and quixotic crusade to keep the tar sands from being developed (or at least attempting to play both sides) but that will end win or lose after next October.

Iran shuts down Hormuz , Chavez gets ballsy , all those gulf refineries aren't getting oil and gas hits a bazillion dollars and we won't even have to wait even that long for the grown ups to have their say.

Why anyone in the Midwest would be for this pipeline (other than the couple of thousands which will be work for a year or two) is beyond me. Let's raise gas 10-30 cents per gallon on the entire Midwest! Yay! This is such an economic net loss and the people that should be making this argument are not, but only using this decision to attack Obama.

Rapmaster2000: Northern Gateway will never be built:

Good news for Kinder Morgan if that's the case...



The Trans-Mountain pipeline is currently operating at full capacity but they're working on twinning it. One way or another, that oil is going to get to the tankers.

jjorsett: How is transporting a bazillion barrels of oil via heavy machinery rolling at high speed, controlled by people probably unqualified to captain a Carnival Cruise ship a less environmentally risky option than putting it thru a pipeline?

[i42.tinypic.com image 240x185]


You should try comparing number of pipeline accidents to number of railroad freight accidents. Prepare to be surprised. Also the aquifers are not right under the majority of track, unlike the proposed pipeline.

apoptotic: Amagi:
PetroChina buys full stake in Canada oil sands project

"The Chinese have urged the Canadian government to approve a pipeline to Canada's Pacific coast so that tankers can ship oil sands crude to China. Sinopec, a Chinese state-controlled oil company, has a stake in a $5.5 billion plan drawn up by the Alberta-based Enbridge company to build the Northern Gateway Pipeline from Alberta to the Pacific coast province of British Columbia."

///that's what happens when you blink, America

Sinopec invested in Syncrude in 2010, not as a response to America blinking on Keystone. Chinese investment in the oil sands is a long term strategy, not a knee-jerk response to US/Canada trade hiccups. Northern Gateway and Keystone really have very little to do with one another. The narrative is just that Canada is "focused" on selling to China right now because the Northern Gateway hearings are currently underway and Keystone is (as far as public/gov't input from Canada goes) stalled until the EIAs for the new route are completed.

You are certainly correct that this was part of a long-term strategy...not just a knee jerk response to the Keystone XL getting delayed. The Chinese have been buying up major mining companies and other natural resource access rights all over creation. I still wouldn't be surprised if the Canadians manage to move through the regulatory process faster for at least a straight up yes or no then we will down here in the US.

Ivo Shandor: Rapmaster2000: Northern Gateway will never be built:

Good news for Kinder Morgan if that's the case...

Damn straight it is. KMP leapt last week. I'm surprised no one has been accused of insider trading on that.

mod3072: Way to go, Fartbongo. That pipeline was going to create 8.5 billion high paying jobs, but you'd rather sell us out to your billionaire friend! All you had to do was sign a piece of paper, and our unemployment rate would have dropped to 0% overnight. But nooooo, you just want to keep us all on welfare and dependent on the government so you can buy our vote.

//I'm actually not opposed to the pipeline, as long as it is done correctly. However, when the mouthpieces start spouting that it is going to create upwards of 1 million permanent, high paying jobs when the company that is actually building the pipeline says maybe a couple of hundred, the hyperbole is getting just a little too over-the-top.

//also, Boehner (among others, I'm sure) bought stock in the companies that would benefit from the pipeline in anticipation of it passing, so calling Obama out because Buffet's railroad is profiting instead is a tad hypocritical.

Not to mention the railroad infrastructure is already there and has been for some time. They are just modifying what they are hauling. It is not like using trains to haul large quantities of goods is a new fangled idea.

max_pooper: Amagi: Big_Fat_Liar: Rapmaster2000: 1macgeek: jjorsett: How is transporting a bazillion barrels of oil via heavy machinery rolling at high speed, controlled by people probably unqualified to captain a Carnival Cruise ship a less environmentally risky option than putting it thru a pipeline?

Oh, so very Mother-farking THIS !

/ You just made sense.
// That's against the rules here.
/// Prepare for incoming fire.

I bet you've got some great arguments about how electric cars are dumb because power plants burn fossil fuels too.

You call that incoming fire? You're shooting blanks. Go back, reload, and try again.

Yeah, seriously, that pretty weak. You hit the nail on the head. However, I would rate shipping oil by train to the US as a less likely outcome by and large.

Link (new window)

PetroChina buys full stake in Canada oil sands project

"The Chinese have urged the Canadian government to approve a pipeline to Canada's Pacific coast so that tankers can ship oil sands crude to China. Sinopec, a Chinese state-controlled oil company, has a stake in a $5.5 billion plan drawn up by the Alberta-based Enbridge company to build the Northern Gateway Pipeline from Alberta to the Pacific coast province of British Columbia."

///that's what happens when you blink, America

You think getting that pipeline designed, permitted and built will be faster than redesigning and permitting the Keystone XL Pipeline routed around Nebraska?

Actually, potentially yes for the planning and regulatory hurdle which is all that matters at this point. Once building begins that is the end game I would imagine. This will certainly make for some amusing political/regulatory theater (rightly or wrongly) at least.

Rapmaster2000: Amagi:

"The Chinese have urged the Canadian government to approve a pipeline to Canada's Pacific coast so that tankers can ship oil sands crude to China. Sinopec, a Chinese state-controlled oil company, has a stake in a $5.5 billion plan drawn up by the Alberta-based Enbridge company to build the Northern Gateway Pipeline from Alberta to the Pacific coast province of British Columbia."

///that's what happens when you blink, America

Northern Gateway will never be built:

Court decisions, including at the Canadian Supreme Court level, have stipulated that first nations must be consulted and accommodated when their traditional lands are affected by industrial development.

Last month, more first nations signed their names to a declaration calling for an "unbroken wall of opposition" to pipelines and oil tankers along B.C.'s coast. More than 60 first nations along the pipeline route, Fraser River and coast have signed the declaration.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/First+nations+fiercely+opposed+Northe rn+Gateway/5937416/story.html#ixzz1kPCkNQe4

/this is what happens when you... well i don't know what you do that causes you to pretend it's the end of the world because Keystone couldn't open a companion tar sand pipeline to go with the tar sand pipelines to the United States that they've already opened, but whatever.

[leadenergy.org image 550x334]

The evil, tar sand hating Fartbongo has allowed two tar sand pipelines to be built since taking office. If a third one is not completed to Beaumont then the Red Chinese will kill us all.

Now that's a strawman, biatches.

Wow, thanks for the local info! I wasn't aiming to troll on that, but thanks for filling us in to the Canadian push back I was unaware of for that route. I guess we will just have to see where that dirty, dirty stuff is going to get burned in the end, lol.

Amagi:

Wow, thanks for the local info! I wasn't aiming to troll on that, but thanks for filling us in to the Canadian push back I was unaware of for that route. I guess we will just have to see where that dirty, dirty stuff is going to get burned in the end, lol.

It'll get burned eventually. Keystone XL is delayed because of political rancor. It's merely a proposal for another pipeline that will begin bringing oil from the tar sands into the US. There are already several. It will be built and connected to Beaumont once it is routed around the aquifer. Once it is connected to Beaumont, it will begin shipping crude and refined products to China and India and Europe and everywhere else that will pay $100 a barrel for oil.

The need for the Northern Gateway will be lessened by Keystone XL. Anyway, they're still 18 months away from just finishing the hearings on Northern.

While this first round of community hearings in Edmonton is expected to wrap up next week, the overall process is scheduled to last about 18 months.

Enbridge likely will not present its own evidence of economic and environmental impacts until the fall.

Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Northern+Gateway+pipeline+hearings +begin+Edmonton/6044603/story.html#ixzz1kPQ5vV9L

my favorite part: the environmental idiots still lose. Not only do we get to drill the tar sands of Alberta like a co-ed freshman at a sorority party, but the precious, precious, oil is transported via a less efficient mechanism, thus dirtying the air even more.

they lost twice, and think they won.

It's hilarious.

CitizensUnited: my favorite part: the environmental idiots still lose. Not only do we get to drill the tar sands of Alberta like a co-ed freshman at a sorority party, but the precious, precious, oil is transported via a less efficient mechanism, thus dirtying the air even more.

they lost twice, and think they won.

It's hilarious.

Everybody look, it's somebody that has no idea what they are talking about.