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Google could help stop conspiracy theories from spreading. So why don't they? Is that part of a new conspiracy?
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Rev. Skarekroe
2012-01-24 11:34:30 AM
How is that Google's job?
chimp_ninja
2012-01-24 11:50:29 AM
TFA:
People who deny global warming, oppose the Darwinian account of evolution, refuse to see the causal link between HIV and AIDS, and think that 9/11 was an inside job have put the Internet to great use. Initially, the Internet helped them find and recruit like-minded individuals and promote events and petitions favorable to their causes. However, as so much of our public life has shifted online, they have branched out into manipulating search engines, editing Wikipedia entries, harassing scientists who oppose whatever pet theory they happen to believe in, and amassing digitized scraps of "evidence" that they proudly present to potential recruits.
Conspiracy nuts will also carefully cling to the fact that any given scientific study has a small chance of being incorrect. They'll look at something like the
MIT Integrated System Model
projections and cling to the lower bound estimate, which notes that there is about a 5% chance that even under 'business as usual', anthropogenic warming will not exceed +3K by 2100. (For calibration, a +3K shift over that time frame falls under 'expensive but manageable' in most of the economic indicators, though it does put a lot of strain on fresh water resources.) They'll post a link to some blog that claims that some guy said in a newspaper (or better yet, another blog) that the model in question might have a flaw in it, and throw out the conclusions.
What they will never, ever consider is that multiple, independent lines of inquiry arrive at similar conclusions: in the case of temperature, +3K to +7K by 2100 covers the 95% confidence limits for most projections. This is common across estimates made by private nonpartisan think tanks, government agencies in multiple countries, professional organizations like the APS, and university groups.
It's supported by literally hundreds of primary studies
, reported in journals run by private companies, government agencies, and professional consortiums, published in countries all over the world.
Then what will really cook your noodle is how these conspiracy nuts
believe simultaneously in crazily improbable 'what ifs' on a wide range of unrelated topics
. As TFA notes, there's a tremendous overlap between the climate change deniers, 9/11 Troofers, the UN black helicopters crowd, UFOs, etc. I recently saw one of the Fark climate deniers seriously defend both a secret cure for all cancer (kept down by a pharma conspiracy) as well as 'suppressed' evidence that Jesus vaporized in a burst of super-high-energy photons on his death, leaving a radiation signature burned into the Shroud of Turin that scientists are still covering up. Believing that the whole of modern scientific knowledge is wrong on any one of these is a tremendous stretch. Believing that science is wrong on all of these topics says much more about them than it does about science.
Yes, some people laughed at Einstein. But they laughed a lot more at Bozo the Clown, and there are a lot more clowns than Einsteins out there, especially on the Internet.
FirstNationalBastard
2012-01-24 01:06:35 PM
I blame The Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the saucer people, under the supervision of the reverse vampires.
eas81
2012-01-24 01:20:22 PM
So subs what your saying is you are all for censorship?
/Move to China don't have conspriacies
INeedAName
2012-01-24 02:30:12 PM
Of course if Google stood up to stop these conspiracy theories, they would just get accused of hiding the truth.
Also, did you know that the founder of Google has links to a guy who may have been the second shooter in Dallas?
Smeggy Smurf
2012-01-24 02:30:22 PM
The complete lack of evidence is proof the conspiracy is working
jjorsett
2012-01-24 02:30:26 PM
Does Google have a responsibility to help stop the spread of 9/11 denialism, anti-vaccine activism, and other fringe beliefs?
Yes, by all means let's make Google the arbiter of what content is suitable for the net. That can't possibly be a bad thing.
heinrich66
2012-01-24 02:30:54 PM
Unbelievable. Because all conspiracy theories are
de facto
false. Because there are no criminals in our culture and in our so-called government. Because History is never tainted by myth.
Very amusing that '9/11 denialism' is equated with Holocaust denialism. When today if the Holocaust happened it would be called a 'conspiracy theory'. Public perception of the event would be managed, facts obscured and let out only over a period of years.
altinos
2012-01-24 02:31:15 PM
FirstNationalBastard
:
reverse vampires
They've gone from suck to blow!
apoptotic
2012-01-24 02:33:33 PM
Does Google have a responsibility to
help stop the spread of 9/11 denialism, anti-vaccine activism, and other fringe beliefs
violate the First Amendment?
No. Suggesting that they do is stupid.
JesseL
2012-01-24 02:33:46 PM
Who in their right mind thinks that actively censoring fringe ideas is a better course than simply letting the tinfoil beanies speak for themselves?
Is fostering consensus at the expense of the flexibility and diversity of views really so important? That scares me a lot more than the idea that some people are sharing their weird and nutty ideas.
Rich Cream
2012-01-24 02:36:17 PM
I think the reflective stickers on the backs of street signs are directions for the UN troops to move about the country.
Shall we remove all references to reflective stickers on street signs from the internet?
wambu
2012-01-24 02:36:37 PM
1. Not Google's job
2. Conspiracy nutjobs are, well, nutjobs
3. No amount of warnings or facts will deter nutjobs
4. That doc who said h. pylori causes ulcers was considered a nutjob.
5. wharrgarbl
Lone Stranger
2012-01-24 02:39:23 PM
INeedAName
:
Of course if Google stood up to stop these conspiracy theories, they would just get accused of hiding the truth.
Also, did you know that the founder of Google has links to a guy who may have been the second shooter in Dallas?
JFK was the second shooter in Dallas.
fred_chan
2012-01-24 02:40:30 PM
Because freedom of speech? How is this even a question?
Egoy3k
2012-01-24 02:41:04 PM
apoptotic
:
Does Google have a responsibility to
help stop the spread of 9/11 denialism, anti-vaccine activism, and other fringe beliefs
violate the First Amendment?
Private companies cannot violate the 1rst amendment as they are not the government.
NightOwl2255
2012-01-24 02:41:27 PM
apoptotic
:
Does Google have a responsibility to help stop the spread of 9/11 denialism, anti-vaccine activism, and other fringe beliefs violate the First Amendment?
No. Suggesting that they do is stupid.
There's always one. Always.
heinrich66
2012-01-24 02:41:56 PM
Author of the article: "Evgeny Morozov"
KGB anyone?
Bennie Crabtree
2012-01-24 02:42:05 PM
Are librarians supposed to tell readers what to think about the books they take out?
dervish16108
2012-01-24 02:42:51 PM
Has anyone ever seen a well-designed, credible looking conspiracy theory website before?
retarded
2012-01-24 02:42:57 PM
Information wants to be free.
jjorsett
2012-01-24 02:43:38 PM
JesseL
:
Who in their right mind thinks that actively censoring fringe ideas is a better course than simply letting the tinfoil beanies speak for themselves?
Heidi Cullen of The Weather Channel for one. She wanted weathermen who were skeptical of manmade global warming to be defrocked (or whatever you call it) by the American Meteorological Society. Whether you consider them fringeoid tinfoil beanie kooks or not, that's what I would call drastic.
Aquapope
2012-01-24 02:44:18 PM
It's the Gnomes of Zurich, controlling Bjorne the Dinosaur, who in turn controls Nancy Reagan and the Fiendish Flouridators (with their nefarious "18 and a Half Minute Gap"!). Seriously.
Smeggy Smurf
2012-01-24 02:46:10 PM
dervish16108
:
Has anyone ever seen a well-designed, credible looking conspiracy theory website before?
Foxnews.com?
Millennium
2012-01-24 02:49:15 PM
eas81
:
So subs what your saying is you are all for censorship?
Without force of law, Google cannot censor. Get the terms straight.
This is not to say that it would be a good idea for Google, or any other entity, to get into the business of identifying and silencing cranks. There simply needs to be a new word, so that the term 'censorship' is not cheapened by expanding it to entities who don't have the might of the law behind them.
JesseL
2012-01-24 02:49:31 PM
It's the Colonel, with his wee beady eyes.
reillan
2012-01-24 02:55:19 PM
Millennium
:
eas81: So subs what your saying is you are all for censorship?
Without force of law, Google cannot censor. Get the terms straight.
This is not to say that it would be a good idea for Google, or any other entity, to get into the business of identifying and silencing cranks. There simply needs to be a new word, so that the term 'censorship' is not cheapened by expanding it to entities who don't have the might of the law behind them.
the difficulty is: how do you define a crank? Was Rosa Parks a crank for refusing to give up her seat? Was Susan B. Anthony a crank for her work in women's suffrage? Was Bill Kaysing a crank for his work on disproving Nasa's moon landing?
(answers: no, no not for that - but temperance earns her a yes, and most definitely)
apoptotic
2012-01-24 02:57:09 PM
Egoy3k
:
apoptotic: Does Google have a responsibility to help stop the spread of 9/11 denialism, anti-vaccine activism, and other fringe beliefs violate the First Amendment?
Private companies cannot violate the 1rst amendment as they are not the government.
You don't think that the next step, after they refuse to censor voluntarily, would be to attempt to lobby the government to legislate them to do so?
FraggleStickCar
2012-01-24 02:57:19 PM
Is this a joke? The day Google starts telling me its opinions on things is the day I stop using Google.
Egoy3k
2012-01-24 03:02:17 PM
apoptotic
:
You don't think that the next step, after they refuse to censor voluntarily, would be to attempt to lobby the government to legislate them to do so?
The next step for who? Slate?
chimp_ninja
2012-01-24 03:02:45 PM
wambu
:
4. That doc who said h. pylori causes ulcers was considered a nutjob.
For a couple years after their big papers came out in 1983-1984, maybe. Human pathology trials take time to do, and have a large number of potentially confounding variables, so there is good reason to doubt an outlier finding until confirmation appears. It also turns out that most people have
Helicobacter pylori
in their gut, but most people never or rarely show symptoms. By 1987, the New England Journal of Medicine published an editorial essentially saying the jury is out, and more study is needed to resolve the question. By 1990 or so, the Marshall/Warren theory was the majority view, because the follow-up studies gradually confirmed the original findings.
Here's a review by CSICOP
.
That's a lot different than the autism scare, where one paper (since retracted) claimed something unusual, and was rapidly debunked by follow-up work. It's also a lot different than
the literature on anthropogenic climate change
.
And all of that is orders of magnitude different from alien abductions, Creationism, the Shroud of Turin, ESP, etc., which never had evidence to begin with. There's nothing inherently unreasonable about a vaccine hypothetically causing developmental problems, but it happens to not be true. If it was, science could accommodate that new knowledge-- we're certainly aware of other substances that induce neurological disabilities, and a logical mechanism exists. Something like 'ghosts haunt my house' would require essentially throwing out modern physics to accommodate it.
heinrich66
2012-01-24 03:02:51 PM
It's very easy on a thread like this (and a site like this) to make fun of the conspiracy theory "nutjobs". But there are two types of conspiracy theorists:
a) paranoiacs that think there is an all-powerful God-like agency pulling the strings behind everything
b) people that are skeptical of an "official" story and ask for more evidence
You can question the official story of 9/11 without supposing George W. Bush was a criminal mastermind orchestrating events. For example, you can say "I don't buy the story about Building 7" since it was a skyscraper that simply collapsed without ever being hit by a plane. In fact, there *is* no official story about Building 7 because they neglected to mention it in the 9/11 Commission Report.
People who like to think in either/ors will have problems with this concept. But you can doubt the accepted theory without necessarily offering an definite alternate theory with terrifying bogeymen.
dennysgod
2012-01-24 03:03:46 PM
So why don't they? Well the same reason why FoxNews does it:
/it's all about the Benjamens
apoptotic
2012-01-24 03:06:31 PM
Egoy3k
:
apoptotic: You don't think that the next step, after they refuse to censor voluntarily, would be to attempt to lobby the government to legislate them to do so?
The next step for who? Slate?
For anyone that wanted to pretend this is a serious issue and managed to scrape together a movement with money behind it.
heinrich66
2012-01-24 03:07:04 PM
It's also interesting to note how certain parties are tagging 9/11 "truthers" as 9/11 "deniers". As if it is in the same category as Holocaust denial. Why would such a heavy brush have to be used? Why not simply say that people who doubt the 9/11 official story are all child molesters and be done?
hydroplane
2012-01-24 03:11:57 PM
Voiceofreason01
2012-01-24 03:13:14 PM
dervish16108
:
Has anyone ever seen a well-designed, credible looking conspiracy theory website before?
http://vactruth.com/
Cajnik
2012-01-24 03:14:02 PM
TFA summary:
Crazy people have the internet. But what can you do?
optional
2012-01-24 03:15:16 PM
heinrich66
:
It's also interesting to note how certain parties are tagging 9/11 "truthers" as 9/11 "deniers". As if it is in the same category as Holocaust denial. Why would such a heavy brush have to be used? Why not simply say that people who doubt the 9/11 official story are all child molesters and be done?
Because words like truth shouldn't be sullied by association with childish conspiracy theories.
Cajnik
2012-01-24 03:18:06 PM
dervish16108
:
Has anyone ever seen a well-designed, credible looking conspiracy theory website before?
Very Quiet
/Sounds like one, but it's actually just a great news aggregator
chimp_ninja
2012-01-24 03:18:36 PM
heinrich66
:
It's also interesting to note how certain parties are tagging 9/11 "truthers" as 9/11 "deniers". As if it is in the same category as Holocaust denial.
It really is the same category. "Denier" is used to label people who have been made aware of copious evidence, but pursue a contrary ideology regardless. It's not reserved for one particular field of knowledge.
plumbicon
2012-01-24 03:18:40 PM
I, for one, welcome our multicolor-logo Overlords.
Remember, if you're not paying for it, you're not the customer.
......You're the product being sold.
DiscoDJ
2012-01-24 03:19:59 PM
Allow me to explain one thing that is wrong with America. Due to this one thing, America will die a tragic death.
Ready?
The CPSC.
When I was a kid (HEY! Get off my lawn!) we had toys that would KILL you. Dead. End of story. Best part? If you were so damn stupid that you did kill yourself with these toys, we also effectively removed some of the stupid genes from the pool.
Now, thanks to the CPSC, these toys don't exist. Kids, I'm talking children's lead smelters (now with ENCLOSED flame), Science Kits that came with more crap you could die from (radioactive stuff (google Gilbert Atomic Energy Lab), posionous stuff, blow your house to shiat stuff), but the nonstupid people survived. And we were better for it, too.
Now? If it can bend a fingernail, it's banned. And the stupidity reigns on. Breeding.
JesseL
2012-01-24 03:21:42 PM
optional
:
Because words like truth shouldn't be sullied by association with childish conspiracy theories.
Truth is nebulous. If you want to waste your time trying to take them to task, at least focus on facts.
heinrich66
2012-01-24 03:21:49 PM
optional
:
heinrich66: It's also interesting to note how certain parties are tagging 9/11 "truthers" as 9/11 "deniers". As if it is in the same category as Holocaust denial. Why would such a heavy brush have to be used? Why not simply say that people who doubt the 9/11 official story are all child molesters and be done?
Because words like truth shouldn't be sullied by association with childish conspiracy theories.
Huh. Nice way to miss the point.
I bet I can boil your worldview down for you:
1) Any belief that people who hold power can be bloodthirsty criminals is a CONSPIRACY THEORY.
2) All conspiracy theories are FALSE.
Glad we're all facing the right way now.
rmoody
2012-01-24 03:22:27 PM
heinrich66
:
It's also interesting to note how certain parties are tagging 9/11 "truthers" as 9/11 "deniers". As if it is in the same category as Holocaust denial. Why would such a heavy brush have to be used? Why not simply say that people who doubt the 9/11 official story are all child molesters and be done?
It is in the same category as Holocaust denial with regards to the available evidence. Hope that helps!
MizzouGuy
2012-01-24 03:23:24 PM
My belief that I was created in the image of God is a conspiracy theory? I better tell my pastor this
lizaardvark
2012-01-24 03:24:54 PM
Lone Stranger
:
JFK was the second shooter in Dallas.
Absurd.
Dallas
didn't air for decades after JFK died. Besides, I'm pretty sure that was just a dream sequence.
A Screaming Man with Two-Toned Shoes
2012-01-24 03:26:16 PM
heinrich66
:
It's very easy on a thread like this (and a site like this) to make fun of the conspiracy theory "nutjobs". But there are two types of conspiracy theorists:
a) paranoiacs that think there is an all-powerful God-like agency pulling the strings behind everything
b) people that are skeptical of an "official" story and ask for more evidence
You can question the official story of 9/11 without supposing George W. Bush was a criminal mastermind orchestrating events. For example, you can say "I don't buy the story about Building 7" since it was a skyscraper that simply collapsed without ever being hit by a plane. In fact, there *is* no official story about Building 7 because they neglected to mention it in the 9/11 Commission Report.
People who like to think in either/ors will have problems with this concept. But you can doubt the accepted theory without necessarily offering an definite alternate theory with terrifying bogeymen.
Handsome B. Wonderful
2012-01-24 03:26:24 PM
apoptotic
:
Does Google have a responsibility to violate the First Amendment?
No. Suggesting that they do is stupid.
Americans are so cute sometimes in their naivety.
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