Now I has a sad :'-(

I'm very glad Westboro didn't show up.

Man, it is really dusty in here...

That is a really small enclosure for so many elephants in that first pic. What's up with that?

BurnShrike: Tears are welling up in my eyes as I write this because I find this story almost too much to bear following the incident at the weekend where we found a grey squirrel dead in our local woods. My family was inconsolable and my husband wept openly all day Sunday. That evening my cousin in Australia called to tell me that they had spotted a dead baby kangaroo by the roadside last year. I couldn't stop crying thinking about it all day yesterday. It's the inhumanity of it all. When will we learn?

- Una Hinged, Animal Planet (not the E.U), 24/1/2012 6:36

Okay, which one of you Farkers posted this?

I think it was Calvin.

I_C_Weener: 316 elephants escaped, zookeepers took the rest, January 20th, 2012.

And we have a winner.

//Kill the lights, this threads done.

grokca: Well I be done seen 'bout ev'rything
When I see a elephant die

I'm so going to hell for laughing at that...

tv_news_guy: Later they all met at the watering hole for a "mercy swim".
[dinjaguh.files.wordpress.com image 528x360]

That guy in the top left is cursing his friends for the invite to the "hot tubby party".

Committee_For_Aesthetic_Deletions: Depends on the animal. Rabbits, chickens, and cows don't have the brainpower to notice that anything's different.

Dogs certainly miss a friend, as do horses. Don't know that they understand death, but they miss and mourn a lost companion.
Same for exotic birds. Lovebirds often die if their mate dies. A cockatoo, macaw, or parrot will very much miss a friend.

I think it depends on how social a species is.


I have two anecdotes regarding animals and death.

When I was a kid I had Teddy Bear Hamsters, and came home one day to find one of them cuddling the other in the middle of the cage, away from their bed. When I say cuddling, I mean full on arms wrapped around the other one like when they sleep. When I checked, found one was dead and his cage-mate was... I dunno. Trying to keep him warm? I always thought is was weird. Still don't know what to make of it.

The other story is about my two dogs, Chuckles (male) and Wrinkles (female).
We owned Wrinkles' mom, she was the only one of the litter we kept. Wrinkles grew up thinking she was one of the family. We're not convinced she knew she was a dog.

Chuckles was a gift to my sister from her then BF. He was as dumb as a rock, but loyal as you could want a dog.

Wrinkles was about 3-4 years older than Chuckles, and while Chuckles *loved* Wrinkles, she tolerated him. Wrinkles lived to the ripe old age of 16 before thinning of the spine paralyzed her and forced us to put her down.

She died around Christmas, and the cold had come early that year. The Vet held onto her for a few days while we figured out what to do about burying her. Chuckles became increasingly depressed during that time, sleeping in "her spot," whimpering, not eating etc.

When we brought her home to bury in the back yard, we brought her into the house so Chuckles could see her, and maybe understand. When he saw her he started wagging his tale and ran over. He sat down next to her, touched her with his paw and tried prodding her with his nose. When she didn't respond he looked from her to us a few times, and eventually just laid down and rested his head on her.

After a while, he didn't move so we gently got him to stand up and took Wrinkles in the back to dig her grave. Chuckles followed us out, sitting next to Wrinkles the whole time. When we were done he stayed out there for a long time. Eventually it was dark, cold and drizzling, and we had to drag him back in.

Til the day he died you could ask him "Where is Wrinkles?" and he'd run outside and lay down next to her grave.

Come to think of it, I guess Chuckles was a lot smarter than we gave him credit for.

What's touching is the zoo keeper (?) in the first and second pic (the guy with the hat). He seemed to care a great deal for the animal's well being -- holding hands with someone in the first pic while watching the elephants say their farewells, and in the second pick wiping away tears.

Always nice to see people caring for animals that actually care deeply for the animals' well-being.

madgonad: At times like this I wonder if we are sad because we are just anthropomorphizing the elephant. Or is it because we realize that we are just animals too and are comprehending how small the differences are between us?

Probably more the latter than the former. Elephants have been shown to mourn their dead. It's a touching moment to see lesser species demonstrating care for each other, and a reminder of how fragile we all are.

Anyone who says otherwise is a heartless dick who I wish to see DIAF.

For those of you who are interested, there is an elephant orphanage in Nairobi that cares for baby elephants orphaned in the wild by poachers or other causes. They bottle feed them, let them socialize with the other elephants and once they are ready reintroduce them to the wild. (In many cases reuniting them with other elephant friends they've made in the orphanage) I've visited before and it is truly awesome to get to play soccer with the baby elephants and even feed them a bottle.

You can also sponsor a baby elephant or give someone a sponsorship as a gift. Great organization.

David Sheldrick Wildlife Trust
http://www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org/

FTA: "Some elephants have been seen to weep and others make sounds associated with grief as they cover the body with leaves and branches before keeping a silent vigil."

I was doing OK, but for some reason that pretty much ended it for me.

Malacon: Come to think of it, I guess Chuckles was a lot smarter than we gave him credit for.

Damn it. Now I have a sad again.

/Need more penguins in sweaters.

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Pics of herd of elephants bidding farewell to showing curiosity three-month-old calf that died of congenital heart defect over a dead animal.

Stop ascribing human mental processes to animals, please.

Stop assuming all notable mental processes are exclusively human, please.

Penguins with sweaters totally makes up for the dead baby elephant. I feel better now!

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Pics of herd of elephants bidding farewell to showing curiosity three-month-old calf that died of congenital heart defect over a dead animal.

Stop ascribing human mental processes to animals, please.

Link (new window)

If you do not think a group of animals do not grieve over the loss of one of their members, you need to open your eyes.

/Has a sad.

vudukungfu: Elephants never forget.

And they never forgive.

"Remember me, Mr. Schneider? Kenya. 1947. If you're going to shoot at an elephant, Mr. Schneider, you better be prepared to finish the job."

Maurooned: TenJed_77: meh, grew up on a farm, everything dies it's fact of life
in the wild would probably already be dead
/probably gonna get a lot of hate for this one

Not knocking the sentiment, but I think the sadness is associated with that they (the other elephants) recognize death. They have a knowledge of its passing.

Is that not a bit different than most animals?

/Did not grow up on a farm
//Didn't even have pets

Its true, many animals don't recognize death. Link goes to youtube of kitty trying to get its dead friend to move. NSFAlergies
Link (new window)

Committee_For_Aesthetic_Deletions: Maurooned: Is that not a bit different than most animals?

/Did not grow up on a farm
//Didn't even have pets

Depends on the animal. Rabbits, chickens, and cows don't have the brainpower to notice that anything's different.

Dogs certainly miss a friend, as do horses. Don't know that they understand death, but they miss and mourn a lost companion.
Same for exotic birds. Lovebirds often die if their mate dies. A cockatoo, macaw, or parrot will very much miss a friend.

I think it depends on how social a species is.

Octopus (Octopi?) mate for life. If one dies, the other will usually starve itself.

I've had 4 dogs in my adult life. Dillinger from my early 20's to mid 30's, Barney from early 30's to mid 40's and a couple senior rescues over the last few years, Max who lasted only briefly and now Monty.

I got Barney as a puppy and he tormented Dillinger. Pushed him out of the way, challenged him, stole his food etc. The day he didn't come home Barney seemed to know something was missing but when he got the lone food bowl spot he never looked back.

Barney was an old man when I got Max, 14 or so and Max was "only" about 11. Max was a German Shorthair and kind of a spaz. He'd push Barney out of the way and irritated him constantly. I figured he would outlive Barney but I was wrong and he died one night about 10 months after I got him. For a day or so Barney acted like something might be missing but when he got the lone food bowl spot he never looked back. Again.

Barney was kind of a honey badger. He never acted like he missed the wife that came home one day, packed and left after being there 10 years (surprise!), another dog or any other living thing except the food source. He was beta and didn't like competition. He tolerated, if you were lucky. There would be little anthropomorphizing that dog, try as you might. I left him be until the arthritis got to be too much at 15. He outlived two other dogs, he earned it.

In 2007, we had two dogs. Mister and Cammey. Cammey was an older girl and took her time coming up the deck from going to the potty. (if she even bothered to go down...)

Mister was a younger dog, I think about 2 at the time. When we would let him in, he would often turn around as he walked in the dog and give a quick bark at Cammey if she wasn't yet at the stairs and he would wait for her.

We had to put Cammey down after she got older and started getting aggressive with the babies, the doc said she was starting to exhibit degenerative behaviors on top of her physical lagging. For a few days after, Mister would still give the call out to the back yard to make sure she wasn't going to come up behind. Even recently, he did the bark and scoped the yard.

fark you guys. stop looking at me

grokca: Well I be done seen 'bout ev'rything
When I see a elephant die

Post-of-the-year candidate!

notyomama: Several years ago, I was fortunate enough to witness what can only be called a duck funeral. My daughter loved to go to the duck pond and feed them french fries. We noticed when we drove up to the pond that a duck was lying dead in the road.

You probably gave it a heart attack with all those french fries. Nice work. And good life lesson for your daughter!

Committee_For_Aesthetic_Deletions: Maurooned: Is that not a bit different than most animals?

/Did not grow up on a farm
//Didn't even have pets

Depends on the animal. Rabbits, chickens, and cows don't have the brainpower to notice that anything's different.

Dogs certainly miss a friend, as do horses. Don't know that they understand death, but they miss and mourn a lost companion.
Same for exotic birds. Lovebirds often die if their mate dies. A cockatoo, macaw, or parrot will very much miss a friend.

I think it depends on how social a species is.

I once saw the most heartbreaking picture of a baby elephant that had been recently orphaned. He was just lying in his pen, big wet tear tracks on his face. One of his handlers had knelt down beside him to hold him.

\Yep, apparently they cry.
\\Also one of the few animals who can pass the mirror test (put a mark on their faces and see whether they try to touch the mark on their reflection or themselves to investigate).
\\\Meanwhile, my dog won't ever stop asking his reflection to play.

davidab: Maurooned: TenJed_77: meh, grew up on a farm, everything dies it's fact of life
in the wild would probably already be dead
/probably gonna get a lot of hate for this one

Not knocking the sentiment, but I think the sadness is associated with that they (the other elephants) recognize death. They have a knowledge of its passing.

Is that not a bit different than most animals?

/Did not grow up on a farm
//Didn't even have pets

Its true, many animals don't recognize death. Link goes to youtube of kitty trying to get its dead friend to move. NSFAlergies
Link (new window)

That's really not much different from a typical human reaction. Denial is the first stage for a reason.

mytdawg: Barney was kind of a honey badger. He never acted like he missed the wife that came home one day, packed and left after being there 10 years (surprise!), another dog or any other living thing except the food source. He was beta and didn't like competition. He tolerated, if you were lucky. There would be little anthropomorphizing that dog, try as you might. I left him be until the arthritis got to be too much at 15. He outlived two other dogs, he earned it.

I think dogs can be just like people in that regard. They're all different and can have differing levels of empathy. And, when a negative force in their life disappears, they say, "Woot. Where's dinner?"

I ditched a wife of 10 years, 4 years ago. Never looked back because it was the GREATEST. CHANGE. EVAR.

But I still miss the senior dog that I rescued in 2000. Had to put him down two months before I called it quits with the wife. Big difference? The dog was nice to me.

I know that my Hahn's macaw certainly misses me when I have to go out of town. I know it, because every bird-sitter tells me how he goes zooming around looking for me, uses his flock call a lot, and doesn't settle down to be truly happy and calm until I come back.

So, anthropomorphism aside - social animals (pack animals, flock animals, etc.) can certainly become very attached to a human (or other animal) and remember what's lacking after a death or absence.

TenJed_77: DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Stop ascribing human mental processes to animals, please.

Although higher in the evolutionary tree, are we - as humans - not just animals? Would these then be animal processes that we have not yet shed?

blahpers: davidab: Maurooned: TenJed_77: meh, grew up on a farm, everything dies it's fact of life
in the wild would probably already be dead
/probably gonna get a lot of hate for this one

Not knocking the sentiment, but I think the sadness is associated with that they (the other elephants) recognize death. They have a knowledge of its passing.

Is that not a bit different than most animals?

/Did not grow up on a farm
//Didn't even have pets

Its true, many animals don't recognize death. Link goes to youtube of kitty trying to get its dead friend to move. NSFAlergies
Link (new window)

That's really not much different from a typical human reaction. Denial is the first stage for a reason.

No it's not.

Committee_For_Aesthetic_Deletions: So, anthropomorphism aside - social animals (pack animals, flock animals, etc.) can certainly become very attached to a human (or other animal) and remember what's lacking after a death or absence.

I just thought a counter-point was in order. He seemed to like me just fine and I'm sure it wasn't my charming demeanor.