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(YouTube) Scary And you thought Americans had all the fun being threatened by scary broad-brush anti-piracy laws. Video explaining what ACTA, the EU's answer to SOPA, is all about   (youtube.com) divider line 46
More: Scary, Americans, World Trade Organization, Citizenship of the European Union, Europe, pirates  
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913 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Jan 2012 at 4:15 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



46 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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BullBearMS
2012-01-23 01:37:53 PM
ACTA is for the United States too, subby.

In what sounds like it could only come from the Onion, when public interest groups tried to get the details of what was being negotiated between Congress and the MPAA/RIAA, the Obama administration refused a Freedom of Information request citing state secrets.

Plenty of folks are quite concerned about the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA) negotiations are being negotiated in secret. This is a treaty that (from the documents that have leaked so far) is quite troubling. It likely will effectively require various countries, including the US, to update copyright laws in a draconian manner. Furthermore, the negotiators have met with entertainment industry representatives multiple times, and there are indications that those representatives have contributed language and ideas to the treaty. But, the public? The folks actually impacted by all of this? We've been kept in the dark, despite repeated requests for more information. So far, the response from the government had been "sorry, we always negotiate these things in secret, so we'll keep doing so." At one point, even the ACTA negotiators held a closed-door meeting and then released a press release saying they discussed being more transparent, but haven't actually followed through.

When the Obama administration took over, there was a public stance that this administration was going to be more transparent -- especially with regards to things like Freedom of Information Act requests. The nonprofit group Knowledge Ecology International took that to heart and filed an FOIA request to get more info on ACTA. The US Trade Representative's Office responded denying the request, saying that the information was "classified in the interest of national security pursuant to Executive Order 12958." This is a treaty about changing copyright law, not sending missiles somewhere.

dl.dropbox.com

/obligatory
 
make me some tea [TotalFark]
2012-01-23 03:22:38 PM
Oh good this went green. I tried subbing it over the weekend. Makes me farking ill.
 
Marcus Aurelius [TotalFark]
2012-01-23 03:32:28 PM
Did you think the government would pass up the opportunity to fark us all over with a sharp stick?

It's the only thing they're any good at any more.
 
Theaetetus
2012-01-23 04:02:13 PM
/facepalm

Subby, ACTA is not a version of SOPA. ACTA is a treaty (which the US has already signed). SOPA is a collection of laws and amendments to laws.

Here's the short version:

Treaty - agreement between countries to fulfill specified obligations through each country's enactment of laws. Usually pretty high level and vague, because the obligations can be fulfilled in many, many different ways.

Law - statutes that set out how the country will fulfill its obligations, defining penalties, remedies, and enforcement powers. Much more specific.

Rule - regulations written by specific departments as to how to follow the law.

So, for example, the Patent Cooperation Treaty is a treaty that defines minimum requirements for patents and IP protection. Title 35 is a bunch of laws setting forth US-specific requirements for what a patent is, remedies for infringement, and enforcement powers of the courts. CFR 37 is a set of regulations by the USPTO as to how to file a patent to meet the requirements of Title 35.

ACTA is a treaty. SOPA/PIPA are acts implementing that treaty. They're not equivalent, and ACTA is not "the EU's answer to SOPA".
 
Corvus
2012-01-23 04:20:28 PM
BullBearMS: In what sounds like it could only come from the Onion, when public interest groups tried to get the details of what was being negotiated between Congress and the MPAA/RIAA, the Obama administration refused a Freedom of Information request citing state secrets.

Do you ever get tired of blaming Obama 100% for the policies that Republican put in the first place?

I know the answer to that.
 
Lost Thought 00
2012-01-23 04:20:56 PM
Theaetetus: /facepalm

Subby, ACTA is not a version of SOPA. ACTA is a treaty (which the US has already signed). SOPA is a collection of laws and amendments to laws.

Here's the short version:

Treaty - agreement between countries to fulfill specified obligations through each country's enactment of laws. Usually pretty high level and vague, because the obligations can be fulfilled in many, many different ways.

Law - statutes that set out how the country will fulfill its obligations, defining penalties, remedies, and enforcement powers. Much more specific.

Rule - regulations written by specific departments as to how to follow the law.

So, for example, the Patent Cooperation Treaty is a treaty that defines minimum requirements for patents and IP protection. Title 35 is a bunch of laws setting forth US-specific requirements for what a patent is, remedies for infringement, and enforcement powers of the courts. CFR 37 is a set of regulations by the USPTO as to how to file a patent to meet the requirements of Title 35.

ACTA is a treaty. SOPA/PIPA are acts implementing that treaty. They're not equivalent, and ACTA is not "the EU's answer to SOPA".

I thought Treaties were the equivalent of laws. If the US has signed a treaty, there should be no need for additional legislation implementing the provisions of said treaty.
 
heinekenftw
2012-01-23 04:21:01 PM
My question is, how is ACTA's text a "national security risk?"

Why is it secret?
 
sendtodave
2012-01-23 04:21:56 PM
Sometimes I really like living in China.

I figure they'll get tough on piracy sometime in the next 50 years. Maybe.
 
Corvus
2012-01-23 04:24:03 PM
heinekenftw: My question is, how is ACTA's text a "national security risk?"

Why is it secret?

Well since it has been leaked you can read it for yourself.
 
James F. Campbell
2012-01-23 04:25:26 PM
Meanwhile, in response to MegaUpload's closing, filesharing websites are collectively shiatting themselves (new window).
 
Saiga410
2012-01-23 04:26:10 PM
Is it explained by puppets because I will only watch the explanation if it is done by puppets.
 
Theaetetus
2012-01-23 04:26:51 PM
Lost Thought 00: I thought Treaties were the equivalent of laws. If the US has signed a treaty, there should be no need for additional legislation implementing the provisions of said treaty.

Nope. Common misperception based on the statement in the Constitution about treaties being "the law of the land". In that clause, they're not saying that treaties are laws*, but rather that they apply throughout the country.

It's primarily due to the fact that we use the term "law" in several different ways... "Law" can refer to the abstract concept of rules, covering everything from the Constitution to town meeting bylaws or OSHA regulations. It's also commonly used to refer to statutes - "you broke the law" usually refers to a criminal or civil statute, not the Constitution or a regulation.

So, if it's clearer, feel free to replace "law" with "statute" in my statement above... Regulations implement statutes, which implement treaties. Treaties themselves are almost never specific enough to be used in place of statutes.
 
meat0918 [TotalFark]
2012-01-23 04:30:08 PM
Those of us in the know were worried about all 3.
 
Lost Thought 00
2012-01-23 04:33:09 PM
Theaetetus: Lost Thought 00: I thought Treaties were the equivalent of laws. If the US has signed a treaty, there should be no need for additional legislation implementing the provisions of said treaty.

Nope. Common misperception based on the statement in the Constitution about treaties being "the law of the land". In that clause, they're not saying that treaties are laws*, but rather that they apply throughout the country.

It's primarily due to the fact that we use the term "law" in several different ways... "Law" can refer to the abstract concept of rules, covering everything from the Constitution to town meeting bylaws or OSHA regulations. It's also commonly used to refer to statutes - "you broke the law" usually refers to a criminal or civil statute, not the Constitution or a regulation.

So, if it's clearer, feel free to replace "law" with "statute" in my statement above... Regulations implement statutes, which implement treaties. Treaties themselves are almost never specific enough to be used in place of statutes.

Interesting. Thanks
 
evoke
2012-01-23 04:36:15 PM
Subby fails because he doesn't even know what he's against. Typical lib.
 
iaazathot
2012-01-23 04:43:56 PM
evoke: Subby fails because he doesn't even know what he's against. Typical lib.

I know I am against your mom. *rub, rub, rub*
 
Alphakronik
2012-01-23 04:45:22 PM
Don't believe that American's are fat? Wait until you see how the protests differ.
 
sendtodave
2012-01-23 04:52:04 PM
iaazathot: evoke: Subby fails because he doesn't even know what he's against. Typical lib.

I know I am against your mom. *rub, rub, rub*

You're up against his mom. Typical lib.
 
Sarah Palin's Conscience
2012-01-23 04:53:18 PM
Alphakronik: Don't believe that American's are fat? Wait until you see how the protests differ.

[confuseddog.jpeg]
 
The Life Of Brian [TotalFark]
2012-01-23 04:54:25 PM
Marcus Aurelius: Did you think the government would pass up the opportunity to fark us all over with a sharp stick?

It's the only thing they're any good at any more.

I really isn't the 'government', at least not as Government should be..

Its once again the rich using their money and 'influence' to push through anything and everything that's good for THEM and screws the '99%'.

It is sad that it has gotten so far and that 'government' has lost its original mandade, an elected body by the people, for the people - but now is more and more a bought and paid for organization.

What to do? NO politician can get elected without the business support and money it brings...

People laughted at the OWS protests... Yes there was disorganization, but at least it was an EFFORT to DO something.. Voting is not going to change this.

And on voting, knowing all this info, you still need to vote, and vote for the best hope overall.

BUT, more needs to be done if the system is to change. OWS needs to be re-born on a much larger, global scale. With organization. With support from the people! Sitting on fark calling them 'unwashed hippies' doesn't help this situation. It shows apathy. It shows YOU really do not care, regardless of your great words you post online.

IF the people are not willing to support the effort, ANY effort, then we're doomed to continue this system until we've all been ground into the dirt under the heals of the ultra rich and powerful.

It CAN be done. It WILL be done at some point. Question is of timing, and how much WE all lose before action is finally taken.

Well..That's my thoughts on the matter at least... And hey, its my birthday today, so gimmie a break at let me be a bit idealistic on this day.
 
5Nickels
2012-01-23 05:00:04 PM
Alphakronik: Don't believe that American's are fat? Wait until you see how the protests differ.

Why do you hate bacon with eggs cooked in the bacon grease?
 
sendtodave
2012-01-23 05:00:35 PM
The Life Of Brian: It is sad that it has gotten so far and that 'government' has lost its original mandade, an elected body by the people, for the people - but now is more and more a bought and paid for organization.

Welcome to the last 200 years?

America was a grand experiment in individual power. One that started failing with the whiskey rebellion and alien and sedition acts.
 
5Nickels
2012-01-23 05:03:51 PM
The Life Of Brian: calling them 'unwashed hippies'

when hazmat suits are needed to clean up behind them, that's not mislabeling them.
 
RandomExcess
2012-01-23 05:07:14 PM
b...b...b....but Bush.
 
5Nickels
2012-01-23 05:07:27 PM
sendtodave: America was a grand experiment in individual power. One that started failing with the whiskey rebellion and alien and sedition acts.

And every President and House in the last 30 years.
 
intelligent comment below
2012-01-23 05:10:40 PM
RandomExcess: b...b...b....but Bush.


Well that is the problem. The same people in charge of government and private industry were not voted out of office. Bush gave them ultimate power after Reagan handed them the keys to the hen house. Nothing Obama can do.
 
DrippinBalls [TotalFark]
2012-01-23 05:11:28 PM
SOPA + PIPA + ACTA + United States Government + Europe = Dogsh*t.
 
The Life Of Brian [TotalFark]
2012-01-23 05:14:57 PM
sendtodave: The Life Of Brian: It is sad that it has gotten so far and that 'government' has lost its original mandade, an elected body by the people, for the people - but now is more and more a bought and paid for organization.

Welcome to the last 200 years?

America was a grand experiment in individual power. One that started failing with the whiskey rebellion and alien and sedition acts.

But see I'm not just talking about America...

Its happening everywhere in the Western world...

Canada, which always seemed to me to have at least SOME sanity in politics has shifted WAY the other way... Values that Canadians have held forever are being stomped out in the name of the all mighty buck and big business - Hell we used to have some of THE most 'liberal' copywrite laws in the Western world - That's going away fast.

Look at Europe - Many like to point at laugh at that 'socialist' area - As this news story shows, things are changing - Look at England! They have cameras and surveillance EVERYWHERE! You cannot take a step out of your residence without being on film.

People laugh and make fun of Greece - ya they lived in a wonder world for a long time full of corruption on all sides - That crashed, and now the PEOPLE are expected to suffer for it.. Not the business. Not Goldman Sach that outright lied to get them into the EU..

And almost every thread on FARK puts down the people... The people who followed the 'system', good or bad, and are now screwed.. The PEOPLE need to pay... Not the business community. Not the billion dollar conglomerates that are JUST as guilty...

Everyone needs to stop placing all the blame, shame, and consequences on the average Joe. YES they have some responsibility too, BUT they just followed the system that was set up by those WAY above them - And why did they? Because they wanted a better life for them and their families - a nobel goal, if somewhat misguided - and then IS it misguided? IF the corporations are going to rape the country, should I sit back and shake my head, or should I take advantage of what little I can to help ME?

Why did the multi-billion dollar conglomerates do it? To add another billion to their bottom line. A billion that realisticaly made ZERO difference to them.

Both groups were wrong. What's the equivalent charge then? The people 'jay walked'. The ultra-rich and their corportations committed murder.

Don't jude them on the same scale.


/PS - To all - I did not do a spell check, so hey don't beat me up...
 
The Life Of Brian [TotalFark]
2012-01-23 05:20:43 PM
5Nickels: The Life Of Brian: calling them 'unwashed hippies'

when hazmat suits are needed to clean up behind them, that's not mislabeling them.

That is a stupid comment.

With today's H&S regs and our knowledge of disease, ANY group that hangs out in a confined space with limited facilities would require the same clean up protocol. That's just for the safety of the workers... Or are you against safety regs?

Again - Its blaming those who TRIED to do something, rather than YOU making any effort to effect change.

BS like yours does nothing but demean the effort.

Its what those with the power WANT..They want people like you to put down ANY effort to question them. You're being a pawn weather you know it or not.
 
ourbigdumbmouth [TotalFark]
2012-01-23 05:22:57 PM
Can a treaty override the constitution?
We'll never know.

/huh?
 
sendtodave
2012-01-23 05:23:22 PM
The Life Of Brian: Its happening everywhere in the Western world...

The world is getting smaller. "The rest" are rising. The Western world is too big (and is in too precarious a position) to bother with quaint enlightenment era concepts. They need to make as much money as possible, while maintaining effective control of the populace.

The Chinese model. "You're free to do what you want as long as you don't cause trouble for the big players - government and business." It'll win out in the long run, I think.
 
heinekenftw
2012-01-23 05:28:15 PM
The Life Of Brian: Everyone needs to stop placing all the blame, shame, and consequences on the average Joe. YES they have some responsibility too,

Let me start by saying that I am not an "OMG WE HAVE NO RIGHTS TYPE" but I believe the following is pretty relevant even today:

V for Vendetta speech (new window)

We elect those people into power. And if we start voting for security in place of liberty, we find that our liberty begins to be stripped away one by one.

But you are correct. As V says, some people take more of the blame than others. The corporations that run the place, the corrupt judges that claim "corporations are people," the congressmen who legislate laws in favor of their corporate overlords.

SOPA/PIPA almost got passed because of the massive corruption in congress in favor of the MPAA/RIAA
NDAA and the AUMF got passed because of a reckless fear over terrorism that has been nurtured and spun out of proportion since 9-11.

However, these things occurred in part because the people became complacent and apathetic. They vote for their "team" rather than the man who would be the better candidate. They complain about incumbency and then refuse to vote for anyone new. The corruption remains because we allow it to remain and because the men at the top have rigged the game to the point where only the men at the top can change it.

What honest and noble Congress will do that?
 
The Life Of Brian [TotalFark]
2012-01-23 05:29:12 PM
sendtodave: The Life Of Brian: Its happening everywhere in the Western world...

The world is getting smaller. "The rest" are rising. The Western world is too big (and is in too precarious a position) to bother with quaint enlightenment era concepts. They need to make as much money as possible, while maintaining effective control of the populace.

The Chinese model. "You're free to do what you want as long as you don't cause trouble for the big players - government and business." It'll win out in the long run, I think.

Ya I specifically said 'western' because in other areas, hey at least the Government doesn't lie - They ARE dictatorships, and have been for a long time. That may or may not change depending on the people and how much of a beat down their governments are willing to put out. I really do not know what's going to happen there..its another variable in the whole thing though for sure.

I kept my comments aimed at what is 'supposed' to be the Democratic places in this world.
 
sendtodave
2012-01-23 05:39:34 PM
The Life Of Brian: Ya I specifically said 'western' because in other areas, hey at least the Government doesn't lie - They ARE dictatorships, and have been for a long time. That may or may not change depending on the people and how much of a beat down their governments are willing to put out. I really do not know what's going to happen there..its another variable in the whole thing though for sure.

I kept my comments aimed at what is 'supposed' to be the Democratic places in this world.

Oh, no, I was saying I think the west may just follow such a model more and more as time goes on.

We're all third world now.
 
The Life Of Brian [TotalFark]
2012-01-23 05:39:57 PM
heinekenftw: The corruption remains because we allow it to remain and because the men at the top have rigged the game to the point where only the men at the top can change it.

What honest and noble Congress will do that?

EXACTLY!

However, these things occurred in part because the people became complacent and apathetic

Again right on.

But it did kind of sneak up...People became complacent because, until recent history, things were going pretty good for MOST people - there were always those disenfranchised groups, but we as a people often tend to overlook that when things are going good for us.

SO what now?

Voting isn't a wasted effort, neither is contacting your representatives currently elected and letting your opinions be known. That's important and is supposed to be the foundations of our various democratic systems of government.

BUT its going to take more. And if nothing else, 'we' as a people need to support those who speak out and try to effect change.

I cannot say I've done much lately.. I did a lot in my younger years.

Recently? I did go to an OWS protest in Toronto to see what was going on. I talked to people about what I belive. Due to my Union background, I had people at work come up to me worried that some of their college age kids were there & they didn't want them hurt - Gave them some advice as to WHERE they should go, and WHO they should stick near (such as media people, people in controlling positions of certain unions - Cops are not going to pepper spray those in Canada, at least not yet). Also suggested they talk to their kids and see WHY they felt it was important for them to be there..

Information rather than mis-information or down right condemnation IS something. Its something we can all do if we cannot do more.
 
m2313
2012-01-23 05:41:18 PM
The Life Of Brian: Its once again the rich using their money and 'influence' to push through anything and everything that's good for THEM and screws the '99%'.

That's what the state is.
The markets/capitalism arose in a symiotic relationship with the state.
The "communist" experiments were merely state capitalism, the private managers being replaced by public bureaucrats and the state privately owning property instead of wealthy individuals.
Capitalism and the state go hand in hand. And a government based on another hierarchy would be just as pointless.
For all the apparent "disorganization" of OWS, that's the point. An actual democratic society where there is no ruling class, and freedom isn't choosing which political or economic bosses hold your chains.
States are merely the enforcement mechanisms of businessmen post-monarchy/feudalism. When they do clash, it's because of the bureaucratic and baron class fighting over turf.
 
sendtodave
2012-01-23 05:44:02 PM
m2313: States are merely the enforcement mechanisms of businessmen post-monarchy/feudalism. When they do clash, it's because of the bureaucratic and baron class fighting over turf.

Bingo. The proles are just useful tools when some lord wants a revolution.
 
The Life Of Brian [TotalFark]
2012-01-23 05:50:43 PM
sendtodave: m2313: States are merely the enforcement mechanisms of businessmen post-monarchy/feudalism. When they do clash, it's because of the bureaucratic and baron class fighting over turf.

Bingo. The proles are just useful tools when some lord wants a revolution.

Hey my Fark handle tells my fav movie, but in this case I have to go with a different pic:

DENNIS: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.
ARTHUR: Shut up!
DENNIS: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!
ARTHUR: Bloody peasant!
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
BullBearMS
2012-01-23 05:54:07 PM
Corvus: BullBearMS: In what sounds like it could only come from the Onion, when public interest groups tried to get the details of what was being negotiated between Congress and the MPAA/RIAA, the Obama administration refused a Freedom of Information request citing state secrets.

Do you ever get tired of blaming Obama 100% for the policies that Republican put in the first place?

I know the answer to that.

Do you ever get tired of pretending Obama isn't just as sold out to the obscenely wealthy as any Republican?

dl.dropbox.com
 
sendtodave
2012-01-23 06:08:52 PM
The Life Of Brian: Bloody peasant!

See, it's funny, because the filth farmer thought he was equal to a king.

When it's clear the king doesn't have shiat all over him.
 
The Life Of Brian [TotalFark]
2012-01-23 06:11:17 PM
sendtodave: The Life Of Brian: Bloody peasant!

See, it's funny, because the filth farmer thought he was equal to a king.

When it's clear the king doesn't have shiat all over him.

Well I didn't vote for him!

/It's funny because you don't vote for a king & because that's what just about everyone says about Shrub!
 
heinekenftw
2012-01-23 06:22:17 PM
Corvus: heinekenftw: My question is, how is ACTA's text a "national security risk?"

Why is it secret?

Well since it has been leaked you can read it for yourself.

I understand that I can mosey on over to the leak and read it. But as BullBearMS's article says, "This is a treaty about changing copyright law, not sending missiles somewhere."

Why would a copyright law, require secrecy, and how does it even remotely have a national security risk to justify that secrecy?

My point was, that there doesn't seem to be a reason to block this bill from the public eye unless your afraid of the public's perception of this bill.
 
sprawl15
2012-01-23 08:31:03 PM
heinekenftw: Why would a copyright law, require secrecy, and how does it even remotely have a national security risk to justify that secrecy?

My point was, that there doesn't seem to be a reason to block this bill from the public eye unless your afraid of the public's perception of this bill.

It's likely just asshole bureaucrats invoking 'need to know' and requiring FOIA requests.
 
CygnusDarius [TotalFark]
2012-01-23 09:32:20 PM
I fear to say what needs to be done.

But we all know what needs to be done.
 
GreenAdder [TotalFark]
2012-01-24 02:56:28 AM
CygnusDarius: I fear to say what needs to be done.

But we all know what needs to be done.

I think so, Brain, but how are we going to find rubber pants in our size?
 
BullBearMS
2012-01-24 09:26:42 AM
heinekenftw: Corvus: heinekenftw: My question is, how is ACTA's text a "national security risk?"

Why is it secret?

Well since it has been leaked you can read it for yourself.

I understand that I can mosey on over to the leak and read it. But as BullBearMS's article says, "This is a treaty about changing copyright law, not sending missiles somewhere."

Why would a copyright law, require secrecy, and how does it even remotely have a national security risk to justify that secrecy?

My point was, that there doesn't seem to be a reason to block this bill from the public eye unless your afraid of the public's perception of this bill.

They simply don't want anyone to know what they are doing in the name of their wealthy masters until it is too late for the public to fight against it.

If you recall, when the NDAA's "imprison Americans without a trial until the end of the war on terror" provisions were being written, that was also done in secret Senate committee meetings.

The ACLU:

The Senate voted last Thursday to pass S. 1867, the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), which would authorize the president to send the military literally anywhere in the world to imprison civilians without charge or trial. Prison based on suspicion alone. The power is so sweeping that the president would be able to direct the military to use its powers within the United States itself, and even lock up American citizens without charge or trial.

No corner of the world, not even your own home, would be off-limits to the military. And there is no exception for American citizens. Section 1031 - one of the indefinite detention provisions - of the Senate-approved version of the NDAA has no limitations whatsoever based on geography, duration or citizenship. And the entire Senate bill was drafted in secret, with no hearing, and with committee votes behind closed doors.

Since the Democrats control the Senate, and therefore chair every Senate committee, it's simply not possible to hold secret committee hearings without the committee chairman's approval.

However, the Democratic party shills like Corvus like to pretend that bipartisan actions are Republican actions.

Both parties are actively selling us out at every turn.

/So stop voting for both of them
 
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