This kind of thought experiment is fun, but the article ignored real examples. Basically, it's just mental masturbation unless you think it through.

Apes (chimps and etc.) are almost as intelligent as humans but very different. They occupy a different niche and we mostly ignore each other. That's one of the predictions in TFA.

The article assumes that the hypothetical creatures are exactly equal to humans in intelligence and technical ability. But that seems unlikely. What would happen if they were only a little less intelligent?

A likely scenario is that the less intelligent species would become subservient to the more intelligent. Well, we have already that.

Dogs (wolves) have lots of traits that mark them as very sophisticated socially and mentally and they are intelligent enough to communicate with humans (ask any dog lover if this is so). They don't make tools and so they can't really compete with us. Instead, we have taken them in and made them part of our society. We're basically in a commensal relationship.

So, it has already happened and it turns out to be less science fiction-ish than TFA predicts.

Assuming we're talking humans and any other species, is that yes, it seems obvious it would have been constant warfare. We fight and kill every animal we encounter, including other humans. Even if this was another benevolent race that was nicer than we are, they would have had to fight back to defend themselves, and it would have led to a lasting emnity stretching from before the spark of consciousness ignited our intelligence into sentience.

They did. We are apes.

MrBallou: Dogs (wolves) have lots of traits that mark them as very sophisticated socially and mentally and they are intelligent enough to communicate with humans (ask any dog lover if this is so). They don't make tools and so they can't really compete with us. Instead, we have taken them in and made them part of our society. We're basically in a commensal relationship.

Dogs have played us from the beginning. They've adapted their behaviors in order to use us for protection, shelter and feeding. And, I'm okay with that.

Vodka Zombie: MrBallou: Dogs (wolves) have lots of traits that mark them as very sophisticated socially and mentally and they are intelligent enough to communicate with humans (ask any dog lover if this is so). They don't make tools and so they can't really compete with us. Instead, we have taken them in and made them part of our society. We're basically in a commensal relationship.

Dogs have played us from the beginning. They've adapted their behaviors in order to use us for protection, shelter and feeding. And, I'm okay with that.

And steak, don't forget steak.

ecmoRandomNumbers: They did. We are apes.

THEN WHY ARE THERE STILL APES!!11!!1!

Sorry, man. I'm trying to be all creotardy.

ecmoRandomNumbers: They did. We are apes.

This.

Honest Bender: Intelligence is trivial. What actually sets us apart from the other animals is our accumulated culture.

This is why yogurt will always reign supreme.

syberpud: HotIgneous Intruder: Sex in the City would never had gotten made.

It probably would have, but with way more body hair.

I'm thinking bonobos.

MrBallou: This kind of thought experiment is fun, but the article ignored real examples. Basically, it's just mental masturbation unless you think it through.

Apes (chimps and etc.) are almost as intelligent as humans but very different. They occupy a different niche and we mostly ignore each other. That's one of the predictions in TFA.

The article assumes that the hypothetical creatures are exactly equal to humans in intelligence and technical ability. But that seems unlikely. What would happen if they were only a little less intelligent?

A likely scenario is that the less intelligent species would become subservient to the more intelligent. Well, we have already that.

Dogs (wolves) have lots of traits that mark them as very sophisticated socially and mentally and they are intelligent enough to communicate with humans (ask any dog lover if this is so). They don't make tools and so they can't really compete with us. Instead, we have taken them in and made them part of our society. We're basically in a commensal relationship.

So, it has already happened and it turns out to be less science fiction-ish than TFA predicts.

And cats. Don't forget cats.

//Would rather have a small terrier as a mouser than a cat.

MrBallou: This kind of thought experiment is fun, but the article ignored real examples. Basically, it's just mental masturbation unless you think it through.

Apes (chimps and etc.) are almost as intelligent as humans but very different. They occupy a different niche and we mostly ignore each other. That's one of the predictions in TFA.

The article assumes that the hypothetical creatures are exactly equal to humans in intelligence and technical ability. But that seems unlikely. What would happen if they were only a little less intelligent?

A likely scenario is that the less intelligent species would become subservient to the more intelligent. Well, we have already that.

Dogs (wolves) have lots of traits that mark them as very sophisticated socially and mentally and they are intelligent enough to communicate with humans (ask any dog lover if this is so). They don't make tools and so they can't really compete with us. Instead, we have taken them in and made them part of our society. We're basically in a commensal relationship.

So, it has already happened and it turns out to be less science fiction-ish than TFA predicts.

If Humans hadn't become the dominant species on earth, bears had as good a shot as apes did. The problem in both cases is that they have so many evolutionary advantages including size and strength, they don't NEED intelligence, and thus evolution didn't favor it as a trait.

Now for us mutant hairless weakling apes (Chimps have the same body mass more or less but are 10x stronger than us) the only shot we had to survive as a species was to select for brain power, so we did.

As to dogs and Wolves, some studies show that dog are LESS intelligent than wolves-if you measure raw problem solving ability, but that dogs more effectively solve food challenges and the like because where a wolf will try to puzzle out how to use his own skill set to solve the problem, a dog will realize this is a task a human is better at than they are and whine till a human comes and does it for them. Which is the "smarter" response, I wonder? (and according to my vet, cats evolved their ability to "meow" solely to communicate with humans, wild cats don't use it, and even domestic cats don't use it to talk to each other)

A far more interesting question would be, "What signs of an intelligent species would be left 60 million years after they went extinct?"

rdyb: What if Neanderthals, who bit the dust just 28,000 years ago, had instead wised up and were now living next door?
They were called ogres and trolls. Those we didn't wipe out directly, interbred.



/LOLWUT?
//The guy pretty much walked out of a Museum Exhibit

In case anyone was wondering, that is Nikolai Valuev.

Ed Grubermann: Parthenogenetic: Isn't this scenario - a human species encounters a rival race of hominids which are equally or even more intelligent and aggressive, and competing for the same resources - what actually happened between Neanderthals and modern humans?

We drove them to extinction. We may have murdered them, or we may have just been better hunters and took away their food supply. Either way, we killed them off.

Prima nocta.

entropic_existence: plenty of other species exhibit some degree of self-awareness and even abstract problem solving abilities,

Why do dogs lick their balls if they are not self-aware?

Ed Grubermann: Parthenogenetic: Isn't this scenario - a human species encounters a rival race of hominids which are equally or even more intelligent and aggressive, and competing for the same resources - what actually happened between Neanderthals and modern humans?

We drove them to extinction. We may have murdered them, or we may have just been better hunters and took away their food supply. Either way, we killed them off.

The red hair genes that used to express themselves only in my beard (before the grey took over) want a word. IIRC scientists "dating" that particular gene concluded that it was older than Homo Sapiens and suggested we must have gotten it from interbreeding with Neanderthals. Which makes sense if you consider that red hair is most common in Scotland, Ireland and Scandanavia, and Neanderthal were better adapted to handle the cold than we are. Add to that the fact that the Irish and Nordic people all have legends of Not-quite Human enemies (Formori, Fir Bolg, Trolls, Jotun, etc) and it wouldn't be hard to imagine that at least some interbreeding occuried in those areas. I've also heard some suggestion that the biblical "nephelhim" (mis translated at "giants") might have been a racial memory/actual encounter with cross breed neanderthal/humans

meat0918:

And cats. Don't forget cats.

//Would rather have a small terrier as a mouser than a cat.

With cats, it's much more one-way. We didn't domesticate them, they just moved in. They're like some guy who crashes on your couch for months, eating your food and watching your TV.

I think dogs actually like people. Cats mostly just tolerate us.

Tim Burton wouldn't have made that remake of the Charlton Heston movie.