jylcat: and this is the same guy that won a Nobel Peace Prize in 2009. Insane.

"Obama had planned to move some detainees to the United States, but Congress blocked funding for that plan and tightly restricted all transfers out, demanding his administration must notify congressional intelligence committees and guarantee the prisoner will not engage in terrorism.

Pillay urged Congress to enable the administration to close the camp."

What he should have done was not promise things that he had no hope in this case or desire in other cases of keeping.

How dare Obama only control one branch of government.

Republicans will now come out (of the closet? No, silly goose thats another thread) in support of the UN and international law.

That obama sure is a clever fella. still kinda uppity tho

Headso: What he should have done was not promise things that he had no hope in this case or desire in other cases of keeping.

I'm sure he was as shocked as the rest of us that Congress wouldn't allow it. It's not exactly normal.. until the last 3 years.

People forget that the president isn't a dictator. There are checks and balances.

He said what he wanted to do, then failed to convince congress to go along with it. That was a politicking failure, not a broken promise.

The GOP wants the prez to be a conservative John Wayne
The Dems want the prez to be a liberal John Wayne


Basically, be John Wayne
or more like Teddy Roosevelt.

/speak softly and carry a big stick...

This is the same UN that spread cholera in Haiti, then denied it.

jylcat: and this is the same guy that won a Nobel Peace Prize in 2009. Insane.

President Transparency strikes again.

serpent_sky: Car_Ramrod: jylcat: and this is the same guy that won a Nobel Peace Prize in 2009. Insane.

"Obama had planned to move some detainees to the United States, but Congress blocked funding for that plan and tightly restricted all transfers out, demanding his administration must notify congressional intelligence committees and guarantee the prisoner will not engage in terrorism.

Pillay urged Congress to enable the administration to close the camp."

And thus, your problem. As we've said before, if Obama came out in favor of air, Congress would stop breathing, simply to spite him. They won't enable him to do ANYTHING that he wants to, no matter who it does (or even doesn't) benefit. And that's why "a dead skunk in the street in front of your house" has a higher overall approval than Congress does.

Basically this. Party politics trumps the illegal detention and torture of people every time.

If Obama wanted to, couldn't he get some state (say New York, for example) to agree to take the prisoners?

It's up to the executive branch to actually enforce laws congress passes. He could move them to NY, close the prison, and then congress would need to sue the executive branch, appealing up to the Supreme Court - which would surely find indefinite detention unconstitutional.

By the time the red tape was cut, Obama couldn't move them back to Guantanamo because there would BE no Guantanamo anymore. Then they'd be stuck in NY much like they're stuck in Cuba right now, with nowhere else to go, except now they'd be imprisoned under U.S. law.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Long story short, Obama has no desire to close the prison anymore, if he ever did. He has not been a champion for civil rights or human rights like he promised to be. He has been the worst civil rights president in history, even worse than Bush.

PanicMan: People forget that the president isn't a dictator. There are checks and balances.

He said what he wanted to do, then failed to convince congress to go along with it. That was a politicking failure, not a broken promise.

You make it sound like he even had a remote chance in the first place of getting the Tea Party asshats to go along with it.

HotWingConspiracy: How dare Obama only control one branch of government.

In the next post, I bet jylcat will be chiding Obama for shifting unprecedented power to the executive branch by not ignoring Congress' stonewalling.

JohnAnnArbor: This is the same UN that spread cholera in Haiti, then denied it.

I thought that was the other UN...

What? There's only one UN? And it is capable of farking up?

Well, if it isn't perfect, we should get rid of it.

Double-oh Steven: Long story short, Obama has no desire to close the prison anymore, if he ever did. He has not been a champion for civil rights or human rights like he promised to be. He has been the worst civil rights president in history, even worse than Bush.

If only he would simply nullify the Senate! That would prove his staunch civil rights bona fides.

tenpoundsofcheese: jylcat: and this is the same guy that won a Nobel Peace Prize in 2009. Insane.

President Transparency strikes again.

He's being totally transparent. Can't you see that he isn't even trying to hide from you the fact that he is the antichrist?

Pincy: PanicMan: People forget that the president isn't a dictator. There are checks and balances.

He said what he wanted to do, then failed to convince congress to go along with it. That was a politicking failure, not a broken promise.

You make it sound like he even had a remote chance in the first place of getting the Tea Party asshats to go along with it.

Actually, Obama made it sound like he could do it. When he was trying to become president.

Pincy: PanicMan: People forget that the president isn't a dictator. There are checks and balances.

He said what he wanted to do, then failed to convince congress to go along with it. That was a politicking failure, not a broken promise.

You make it sound like he even had a remote chance in the first place of getting the Tea Party asshats to go along with it.

True after he was elected, but when he originally said it he was still campaigning. The tea party wasn't created until after he won the election. By the time he took office, there was no way.

Double-oh Steven: He has been the worst civil rights president in history, even worse than Bush.

Worse than the ones that backed slavery? Worse than the ones that backed Japanese American internment camps?

Get your head out of your ass.

SnakeLee: Double-oh Steven: If Obama wanted to, couldn't he get some state (say New York, for example) to agree to take the prisoners?

Yeah, and the Congressional leaders all wet their pants over it. He tried getting them to go to New York specifically and there was a huge "controversy" over it. Conservatives are such pussies. They wouldn't have trials there or anything.

I think the point is "fark congressional leaders in the ear." They wouldn't have won in the long run.

I thought Obama was all about winning the long game?

"and I would have been a great Preisdent if it wasn't for that pesky congress".

HotWingConspiracy: How dare Obama only control one branch of government.

so why does he get credit for 0bamacare?

when something doesn't happen, he is a victim.
when something does happen, it is all him.

Double-oh Steven: He has not been a champion for civil rights or human rights like he promised to be. He has been the worst civil rights president in history, even worse than Bush.

But at least we can feel good about the fact that all the promises Obama has broken were made to the left that means we're winning!

PanicMan: Pincy: PanicMan: People forget that the president isn't a dictator. There are checks and balances.

He said what he wanted to do, then failed to convince congress to go along with it. That was a politicking failure, not a broken promise.

You make it sound like he even had a remote chance in the first place of getting the Tea Party asshats to go along with it.

True after he was elected, but when he originally said it he was still campaigning. The tea party wasn't created until after he won the election. By the time he took office, there was no way.

The Tea Party was created as a response to the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, which was passed on October 3rd. That's why the first Tea Party protest was January 24th, almost four months later, and had nothing to do with Obama being sworn in 4 days earlier. It was all about TARP man.

tenpoundsofcheese: HotWingConspiracy: How dare Obama only control one branch of government.

so why does he get credit for 0bamacare?

when something doesn't happen, he is a victim.
when something does happen, it is all him.

Because the Republicans invented the term Obamacare.

GhostFish: Worse than the ones that backed slavery? Worse than the ones that backed Japanese American internment camps?

Thomas Jefferson and FDR were monsters.

12349876: tenpoundsofcheese: HotWingConspiracy: How dare Obama only control one branch of government.

so why does he get credit for 0bamacare?

when something doesn't happen, he is a victim.
when something does happen, it is all him.

Because the Republicans invented the term Obamacare.

Yeah, what the hell. HOW DARE FARTBAJOOBACARE BE IDENTIFIED WITH FLARPWANGO JUST BECAUSE WE STAGED A MEDIA CAMPAIGN TO CREATE THAT IDENTIFICATION

GhostFish: Double-oh Steven: He has been the worst civil rights president in history, even worse than Bush.

Worse than the ones that backed slavery? Worse than the ones that backed Japanese American internment camps?

Get your head out of your ass.


The trail of tears is exactly the same as ending DADT.

SnakeLee: Read this, it should answer your question: Link (new window)

In an abrupt shift, Senate Democratic leaders said they would not provide the $80 million that President Obama requested to close the detention center at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

Would the President have the authority, as president, to authorize emergency funding, and then have the authority as commander in chief to authorize the military to carry out the closure?

Serious question. It just seems like Bush the Younger was able to do whateverthefark he wanted to, instead of shrugging and saying that his hands were tied.

tenpoundsofcheese: HotWingConspiracy: How dare Obama only control one branch of government.

so why does he get credit for 0bamacare?

Because you farking idiots tied it to him. You're here calling it "Obamacare" for fark's sake.

when something doesn't happen, he is a victim.
when something does happen, it is all him.

Again, this is your shtick. He's a do nothing president that has radically changed everything according to you.

Are you seriously asserting that the president didn't move to close Guantanamo and congress/senate punted on it? Because you know, that's what actually happened.

SnakeLee: Double-oh Steven: If Obama wanted to, couldn't he get some state (say New York, for example) to agree to take the prisoners?

Yeah, and the Congressional leaders all wet their pants over it. He tried getting them to go to New York specifically and there was a huge "controversy" over it. Conservatives are such pussies. They wouldn't have trials there or anything.

He also tried to get them to Illinois.

December 15, 2009 - Some Guantanamo detainees to be moved to Illinois (new window)

An executive order issued by President Obama called for Attorney General Eric Holder to purchase the nearly vacant prison and for Secretary of Defense Robert Gates to "prepare the [prison] for secure housing of detainees currently held at the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base who have been or will be designated for relocation, and shall relocate such detainees to the [prison], consistent with laws related to Guantanamo detainees."

March 18, 2010 - GOP Moves To Block Gitmo Detainees From Coming To Illinois Prison (new window)

A plan to transfer prisoners currently held at Guantanamo Bay to a nearly deserted Illinois jail is sharply dividing the state's politicians, with Democrats largely supporting the plan and Republicans hell-bent on blocking it.

On the day a delegation from the U.S. Bureau of Prisons inspected the Thomson Correctional Center in western Illinois, several Illinois Republicans announced a barrage of legal and bureaucratic hoops aimed at thwarting the plan.

So, Double-oh Steven, who ya crappin?

12349876: tenpoundsofcheese: HotWingConspiracy: How dare Obama only control one branch of government.

so why does he get credit for 0bamacare?

Because the Republicans invented the term Obamacare.

Yea, that was a pretty farkin dumb question, even for tenpoundsofcheese.

tenpoundsofcheese: HotWingConspiracy: How dare Obama only control one branch of government.

so why does he get credit for 0bamacare?

when something doesn't happen, he is a victim.
when something does happen, it is all him.

Seriously? Credit?

The Republicans made up the term Obamacare. The Republicans are the ones constantly using it as an "Obama thing" to attack.

sendtodave: Serious question. It just seems like Bush the Younger was able to do whateverthefark he wanted to, instead of shrugging and saying that his hands were tied.

He got away with it because of "why do you hate America?!?" He rode a wave of extreme nationalism and fear that was nearly impenetrable to any kind of logic or reason.

PanicMan: sendtodave: Serious question. It just seems like Bush the Younger was able to do whateverthefark he wanted to, instead of shrugging and saying that his hands were tied.

He got away with it because of "why do you hate America?!?" He rode a wave of extreme nationalism and fear that was nearly impenetrable to any kind of logic or reason.

Hey, whatever works.

I see I've been sharply rebuked. The hyperbole was obviously not useful to the discussion; however, Obama's record on civil liberties remains a disappointment. Re-upping the patriot act, codifying indefinite detention, defending warrantless GPS tracking of our cars (overturned by the supreme court yesterday), and so on. Yes, repealing DADT was good, and long overdue, but that's the only thing he's done different than George W(orst ever). Bush.

This is coming from a disappointed Obama voter who did not expect him to "fix everything." But to expect him to be a better friend to the U.S. constitution than Bush is NOT setting the bar high.

As to totally disregarding the will of congress... stay tuned to Term 2.

Oh, and sorry for the enormous threadshiat. That wasn't my goal.

serpent_sky: And thus, your problem. As we've said before, if Obama came out in favor of air, Congress would stop breathing, simply to spite him. They won't enable him to do ANYTHING that he wants to, no matter who it does (or even doesn't) benefit. And that's why "a dead skunk in the street in front of your house" has a higher overall approval than Congress does.

You do know he had a record setting first two years in office at getting his agenda passed right?

This constant whining about Congress not letting him do anything is not backed by reality.

rogue49: or more like Teddy Roosevelt.

Been wanting this of a president for a while now....

Some things TR did (and how they would be viewed in Today's terms):
Trust busting/regulation (Liberal)
Establishing National Parks (Liberal)
"Square Deal" and Union support (Liberal)
Pushed Panama Canal as US perogative (Conservative)
Politcal involvement in Venzuela, Dominican Republic, Morocco (Conservative)
Worked to Limit immigration from Japan aka "The Gentlemans Agreement" (Slightly Conservative)

watson.t.hamster: serpent_sky: And thus, your problem. As we've said before, if Obama came out in favor of air, Congress would stop breathing, simply to spite him. They won't enable him to do ANYTHING that he wants to, no matter who it does (or even doesn't) benefit. And that's why "a dead skunk in the street in front of your house" has a higher overall approval than Congress does.

You do know he had a record setting first two years in office at getting his agenda passed right?

This constant whining about Congress not letting him do anything is not backed by reality.

Except, of course, that the endless filibusters made it so that most of what was passed was neutered, toothless and full of Republican bullshiat, which is why it was so much less effective than it should have bene. But you knew that.

PanicMan: People forget that the president isn't a dictator. There are checks and balances.

He said what he wanted to do, then failed to convince congress to go along with it. That was a politicking failure, not a broken promise.

Closing Guantanamo as a physical location isn't very important in this equation. Ending indefinite detention using some superlegal status that permits us to hold them under POW powers but not grant them the same rights, however, is important.

Obama has full unilateral power to prosecute, release, or treat as POWs any remaining detainees, which would end the human rights problems. He has chosen not to do so for a significant portion of detainees.