oblig

The one feature my work Blackberry has that I would like on my personal Android is the flexibility and ease of Blackberry's sound profiles. I need a couple of apps to get similar functionality out of my Android. But, if BB folded tomorrow and we had to switch to a different device at work, meh, I'd get over it.

/Went with Android mostly because of LTE availability.
//Head IT guy is running a Windows phone and likes it, so far.

R.I.P. Hamilton Coyotes.

As an IT person for small and medium business, where there was no official phone, I couldn't convince people to get away from Blackberries fast enough. I can't wait until this sick horse is completely buried, and I can rid myself of dealing with any BES/BIS server, or any of their horrid devices again.

How in the hell do you have the market cornered in the corporate environment like they did, and completely lose everything in a matter of a couple years? It is sad to see a company run into the ground like this, while many others like me make a small percentage of their CEO's income and could have kept our company relevant for a fraction of the cost.

Unobtanium: The one feature my work Blackberry has that I would like on my personal Android is the flexibility and ease of Blackberry's sound profiles. I need a couple of apps to get similar functionality out of my Android. But, if BB folded tomorrow and we had to switch to a different device at work, meh, I'd get over it.

/Went with Android mostly because of LTE availability.
//Head IT guy is running a Windows phone and likes it, so far.

As someone that has had an Android since the original Droid, there are a million things I wish were better. Sure, they are flexible, you can install any application you want...I quickly grew tired of flashing my phone and running custom firmwares. I just hope that ICS runs a shiatload smoother, takes up less battery, and I don't need to deal with force closing programs all the damn time. I have honestly been thinking about getting an iPhone, and even that thought sends chills down my spine.

internutthead: RexTalionis: Confabulat: Blackberries remind me of first-generation Windows phones. The world has moved on.

Corporate inertia has a way of keeping technologies alive long past its use-by date. Heck, until Microsoft forcibly made people update Internet Explorer, a lot of computers in corporate places still ran Internet Explorer 6 as their primary browser.

....and don't even get me started about Government users. Remember when there was a patient troll case against RIM and the US Government basically said that even if the troll won the Government would continue using Blackberry?

They won't change for shiat. Government users are probably one of the things still keeping RIM alive.

That isn't because of inertia, but because of security. Basically, RIM has closed secure networks that business and government loves, so they've stuck with them for a long time.

Since last year, IIRC, rim has been developing software so that business/government can use different non-RIM phones with the network, which means that they can break their popular secure network service away from their failing phone business, so expect to see a lot of companies who've been sticking with blackberries start to move to other versions of phones, but staying with the same network.

2wolves: Say what you like about BES but the support was over the top outstanding.

Good product that rarely needs support > crap with great support, no matter how terrible the support is for the former. You know when the last time I needed to call support for Gmail was? Never. The last time I couldn't get my Gmail because Google's servers were down? Never.

I love the suggestion that RIM will try to license it's OS to other handset manufacturers. I'm compiling a mental list of potential licensees and... yeah, coming up empty. They'll have to get in line behind WebOS, Windows, Bada, and a bunch of Linux distros that aren't Android.

Also amusing: one of the two men responsible for putting them so far behind the curve is now a director with "special responsibility for innovation". So yeah, let us know how that works out.

doglover:

Apple is a MARKETING company. And they are GOOD. They don't sell used cars, they sell certified pre-owned. They don't sell vegetables, they sell organic vegan meals. They don't sell cell phones with touch screens, they sell iphones. And we all bought into it.

Why push the envelope when you can ride right up to the current tech line, design the device well and outsell the competition?

I will say that one thing I like about Apple is the lack of software fragmentation. When you have one specific set of hardware to design for its pretty easy to keep all the customers at the same software level.

/Likes my iPhone 4S over my old Android phones

Confabulat:
My corporate environment still runs Vista. Home edition. You should see the IT guys' eyes boggle.

By virtue of being a contractor (I'm not totally sure it's the same as it is in the states) I encountered an office of a very profitable group of businesses who ran exclusively on Compaq Pressario's and Windows Millennium Edition.

My initial contact with them was to diagnose and repair a network issue. Their new XP machine kept disconnecting itself. It was XP Home eMachine (or a Gateway 2000... memory is fuzzy) and was seeing more than 5 unique IP addresses on the same subnet; at which point it turned off it's network port.

This was in 2002 - 2003. They didn't want to upgrade the machines, they just wanted that XP machine working without spending any money on software.

The Angry Hand of God:
How in the hell do you have the market cornered in the corporate environment like they did, and completely lose everything in a matter of a couple years?

One word, flame inducing, answer: iPhone (I'd except LG Parada as well).

TL;DR answer: Blackberry were both caught out by the rise of and ignored the consumer smartphone market until it was too late. They never considered that a consumer unit can be retrofitted and inserted in to corporate shops far easier than they could retrofit consumer features to their corporate designed gear. That massive shift in the consumer arena caught a lot of big names out, including Microsoft, however a lot of the other companies had substantial war chests to keep them afloat whilst they rebrand or were consumed by larger organisations (Nokia becoming 'Microsoft mobile telephone hardware division' as a rough example of that).

They also failed to factor in the raw hatred of things like BES/BIS that IT admins carry around. When we got the slightest chance to jump ship we took it. Even if it meant more headaches in the short term it was better than BES/BIS.

Blackberry's best bet would of been to get MS to buy them, however they didn't die quickly enough so MS brought Nokia instead. At that point they became farked. Completely and utterly farked.

Microsoft, Att, Verizon, Apple, Or Google buy RIM and kill it.
Please

sarah_t_s: The Angry Hand of God:
How in the hell do you have the market cornered in the corporate environment like they did, and completely lose everything in a matter of a couple years?

One word, flame inducing, answer: iPhone (I'd except LG Parada as well).

TL;DR answer: Blackberry were both caught out by the rise of and ignored the consumer smartphone market until it was too late. They never considered that a consumer unit can be retrofitted and inserted in to corporate shops far easier than they could retrofit consumer features to their corporate designed gear. That massive shift in the consumer arena caught a lot of big names out, including Microsoft, however a lot of the other companies had substantial war chests to keep them afloat whilst they rebrand or were consumed by larger organisations (Nokia becoming 'Microsoft mobile telephone hardware division' as a rough example of that).

They also failed to factor in the raw hatred of things like BES/BIS that IT admins carry around. When we got the slightest chance to jump ship we took it. Even if it meant more headaches in the short term it was better than BES/BIS.

Blackberry's best bet would of been to get MS to buy them, however they didn't die quickly enough so MS brought Nokia instead. At that point they became farked. Completely and utterly farked.

The other change that caught out RIM was connectivity. When the BlackBerry started out, getting email to a mobile device -- let alone pushing email to a mobile device -- was rocket science. And timely communication was a huge differentiator for the target market. RIM completely failed to adjust to the way that capability sank down into the network layer.

I_Am_Weasel:
What do you mean "that looked like sarcasm"? Just because I used sarcasm, doesn't mean it is!

How.... how in the name of fark did you keep a straight face whilst typing that.... are you a god?

2wolves: Say what you like about BES but the support was over the top outstanding.

Good one. I had a paid-for BES server (NOT BES Express) at one point. RIM refused to provide me with a link to the documentation on how to move my paid software to a new server unless I bought a $2,500 support contract from them. I dropped them and moved my company to Android phones a week later.

Barakku: The last time I couldn't get my Gmail because Google's servers were down? Never.

i guess you haven't had gmail for all that long...

I find it funny how in other threads everyone is complaining that the CEO shouldn't be paid millions of dollars because "the CEO doesn't do anything". But in the case everyone seems to agree that "the CEOs ran it into the ground"...well, which is it?

2wolves: Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: 2wolves: Say what you like about BES but the support was over the top outstanding.

Good one. I had a paid-for BES server (NOT BES Express) at one point. RIM refused to provide me with a link to the documentation on how to move my paid software to a new server unless I bought a $2,500 support contract from them. I dropped them and moved my company to Android phones a week later.

So you had a problem with the price/availability not quality of support. Ok.

I consider price and availability to be a quality of support. When they refuse to provide support for a product I paid (quite a lot) for and also won't provide a per-call fee, then I consider the support to be non-existent. I wasn't even asking them for a solution. I just asked to be pointed to the documentation.

The Angry Hand of God: Unobtanium: The one feature my work Blackberry has that I would like on my personal Android is the flexibility and ease of Blackberry's sound profiles. I need a couple of apps to get similar functionality out of my Android. But, if BB folded tomorrow and we had to switch to a different device at work, meh, I'd get over it.

/Went with Android mostly because of LTE availability.
//Head IT guy is running a Windows phone and likes it, so far.

As someone that has had an Android since the original Droid, there are a million things I wish were better. Sure, they are flexible, you can install any application you want...I quickly grew tired of flashing my phone and running custom firmwares. I just hope that ICS runs a shiatload smoother, takes up less battery, and I don't need to deal with force closing programs all the damn time. I have honestly been thinking about getting an iPhone, and even that thought sends chills down my spine.

I don't have too many FC issues. Maybe I am lucky. I also tend to pick apps that have had some time in the market, and rarely pick anything rated below 3.5 stars. Battery life could be better. But I run an extended battery, and unless I go on a game binge, rarely am below 40% after 15 hours. Gingerbread is plenty smooth.

I might look at iOS once they get the second LTE device out.

Where can I apply for this RIM job?

Barakku: Good product that rarely needs support > crap with great support,

Oh so much THIS.

I support android, iOS, and Blackberry devices.

It is a noteworthy week when an android or iOS device has a problem, it is a noteworthy event when the Blackberry devices DON'T.

doglover: Apple aren't really a tech company. They do little to no innovative technology. They cut no edges. Seriously, the iPad 2 has what? 64 GB max and no sd card slot? It's nothin' compared with what they COULD do if they wanted to push the envelope. But they don't.

Apple is a MARKETING company. And they are GOOD. They don't sell used cars, they sell certified pre-owned. They don't sell vegetables, they sell organic vegan meals. They don't sell cell phones with touch screens, they sell iphones. And we all bought into it.

The 1990s called. They want their lame arguments back.

proteus_b: Barakku: The last time I couldn't get my Gmail because Google's servers were down? Never.

i guess you haven't had gmail for all that long...

I've seen their servers get mind-nimbingly slow. Although it seems to be their IMAP services more than their POP sevices.

I_Am_Weasel: BES is an excellent piece of software. Easy to use. Runs efficiently and quickly. Easily scalable.

And you're point is? Users don't see BES and can care less about it. All they want is their e-mail.

/we manage iPhones like we do Blackberries
//once security on Android finally catches up - we will do the same for them
///Blackberries will be gone by the end of the year and our BES admin couldn't be more relieved

sarah_t_s: The Angry Hand of God:
How in the hell do you have the market cornered in the corporate environment like they did, and completely lose everything in a matter of a couple years?

One word, flame inducing, answer: iPhone (I'd except LG Parada as well).

TL;DR answer: Blackberry were both caught out by the rise of and ignored the consumer smartphone market until it was too late. They never considered that a consumer unit can be retrofitted and inserted in to corporate shops far easier than they could retrofit consumer features to their corporate designed gear. That massive shift in the consumer arena caught a lot of big names out, including Microsoft, however a lot of the other companies had substantial war chests to keep them afloat whilst they rebrand or were consumed by larger organisations (Nokia becoming 'Microsoft mobile telephone hardware division' as a rough example of that).

They also failed to factor in the raw hatred of things like BES/BIS that IT admins carry around. When we got the slightest chance to jump ship we took it. Even if it meant more headaches in the short term it was better than BES/BIS.

Blackberry's best bet would of been to get MS to buy them, however they didn't die quickly enough so MS brought Nokia instead. At that point they became farked. Completely and utterly farked.

There still may be hope for an MS buyout. Microsoft and Nokia apparently considered doing a joint buyout, but not much has been heard of it since. However, the next version of Windows Phone, codenamed "Tango", is rumored to support the portrait hardware keyboard and 480x320 screen of the Blackberry form factor. It wouldn't surprise me to see Microsoft decide that Windows Phone needs another shot in the arm around that time. It'd make sense, at least in that scenario. That, or RIM decides to either dump BBOS, switching to a third-party OS (possibly Windows Phone), or offers devices with different operating systems... BBOS and another platform, again, potentially Windows Phone.

doglover: Apple aren't really a tech company. They do little to no innovative technology. They cut no edges. Seriously, the iPad 2 has what? 64 GB max and no sd card slot? It's nothin' compared with what they COULD do if they wanted to push the envelope. But they don't.

This is exactly what makes Apple such an innovative company. Instead of doubling down on internal storage, for example, they are pushing everyone into the cloud. They know the cloud is the future, and they want Apple to be synonymous with the cloud, and to do that, they're forcing their users to start use it.

What's happened to RIM is a classic case of stagnating because it failed to innovate and force its customers to adapt.

MS Exchange is going to kill BES. Google supports it with their corporate email. Lots of places already have MS Active Directory running, so Exchange setup is not a huge issue. More importantly while people might not love Exchange, they hate it a lot less than BES.

MS has been gunning hard to have their Windows phones+Exchange offer the security features equal to a Blackberry+BES. Our IT guys already have a project underway to replace BES and are looking forward to the day they pull the plug.

My BB Curve boots up in seconds compared to my Android. IMO, that's the only way it outperforms.

doglover:

Apple aren't really a tech company. They do little to no innovative technology. They cut no edges. Seriously, the iPad 2 has what? 64 GB max and no sd card slot?

The fark has the iPad got to do with Blackberrys?

Marine1:

There still may be hope for an MS buyout. Microsoft and Nokia apparently considered doing a joint buyout, but not much has been heard of it since. However, the next version of Windows Phone, codenamed "Tango", is rumored to support the portrait hardware keyboard and 480x320 screen of the Blackberry form factor. It wouldn't surprise me to see Microsoft decide that Windows Phone needs another shot in the arm around that time. It'd make sense, at least in that scenario. That, or RIM decides to either dump BBOS, switching to a third-party OS (possibly Windows Phone), or offers devices with different operating systems... BBOS and another platform, again, po ...

Everything I've read about Tango indicates that it was designed around getting Windows Phones on cheap Nokia handsets to be sold in India, China, and other emerging markets where Symbian still has a following. Tango supporting lower resolution screens plus QWERTY form factor probably just means that they are working to make a Win Phone version of this:

ha-ha-guy: MS Exchange is going to kill BES. Google supports it with their corporate email. Lots of places already have MS Active Directory running, so Exchange setup is not a huge issue. More importantly while people might not love Exchange, they hate it a lot less than BES.

MS has been gunning hard to have their Windows phones+Exchange offer the security features equal to a Blackberry+BES. Our IT guys already have a project underway to replace BES and are looking forward to the day they pull the plug.


BES has always been more of a middleware program between Exchange or Lotus Notes rather than a direct competitor. Exchange/Lotus have handled company email on desktop/laptop computers for quite some time, it is just that about a decade ago they didn't have the capability to instantly push email to mobile devices on the go, which gave BlackBerry their niche. What has happened recently is that those two big email platforms started adding quite reliable push email capabilities for mobile devices, so once iPhones and Android devices became secure and capable enough it turned into a question of "why are we putting all of the money and effort into a BES, when our existing Exchange/Lotus server will do everything we need"? Hell, five years ago I was doing Blackberry-less push email on a Nokia E70 using Mail for Exchange, so even before the iPhone BB it seemed like EAS was destined to eventually displace BES for a lot of companies.

thornhill: doglover: Apple aren't really a tech company. They do little to no innovative technology. They cut no edges. Seriously, the iPad 2 has what? 64 GB max and no sd card slot? It's nothin' compared with what they COULD do if they wanted to push the envelope. But they don't.

This is exactly what makes Apple such an innovative company. Instead of doubling down on internal storage, for example, they are pushing everyone into the cloud. They know the cloud is the future, and they want Apple to be synonymous with the cloud, and to do that, they're forcing their users to start use it.

What's happened to RIM is a classic case of stagnating because it failed to innovate and force its customers to adapt.

No, the cloud can't replace local storage until we all have LTE connections (and they don't drain your battery) with unlimited data for $30 a month. And that may never happen. We'll always have to have some local storage because you can't rely on cellular connections (or wifi).

And to Doglover: No, they didn't make a 128 GB iPad for various reasons. Chiefly, I imagine, is that larger NAND flash wasn't available at the time (there's supposedly 2x 32 GB chips in the 64 GB model, and 64 GB chips weren't available until, oh September 2011 or so (the iPhone has 1 NAND chip so the availability of 64 GB chips was indicated by the iPhone 4S coming out in October.) And they don't want to have to make an iPad thicker and heavier to accommodate extra storage. Fact of life, you won't see Apple make a device thicker or heavier than they have to.
Secondly, they won't do removable storage because there's a bunch of downsides to it. MicroSD cards are usually slower, smaller (32 GB max usually), and less secure (Google took a while to run apps from an SD card because they had to invent an encryption method for SD cards). And they don't want partitioned storage (on some phones (my old dumbphone for instance) you have to manage your memory and choose where you store stuff. Apple don't play that.)

And lastly, they already cover the vast majority of demand with 64GB. I rarely even see 64 GB on any other tablets, and I don't think I've seen any 64GB+MicroSD card tablets at all. Usually it's 16 or 32 GB in a tablet, add in a 32 GB MicroSD card the best you've got is 64 GB anyway. If people were clamoring for 128 GB, they probably would have done it. Instead, they're probably going to update the iPad in March or so with a 128 GB model.

I'm not saying Apple's a bunch of saints and can do no wrong, but there's some reason behind what they do. And I'm also not saying no MicroSD is the best choice for everyone, it's cool to have especially with a camera with a SD slot. But they designed the iPad to function well for the majority of people.