Look, I'm not saying I don't believe him, I just find it interesting that he isn't answering these questions that keep coming up.

Romney's great-grandfather, Miles Park Romney, fled the United States and crossed into Mexico in 1885 to escape religious persecution. He helped build the Mormon enclave of Colonia Juarez in Chihuahua.

That's a pretty PC way of saying "Was no longer allowing Polygamy marriages".

Corvus: Romney's great-grandfather, Miles Park Romney, fled the United States and crossed into Mexico in 1885 to escape religious persecution. He helped build the Mormon enclave of Colonia Juarez in Chihuahua.

That's a pretty PC way of saying "Was no longer allowing Polygamy marriages".

So the government Is allowed to regulate what is and is not marriage based on arbitrary tradition?

Because I've been getting for the last few years that not allowing same-sex marriage is persecution.

FARTROMNEY
WHERE
BIRTH CERTIFICT
whe

Seriously, though, can we leave the Birther nonsense to the brain-dead rightists? Thanks.

Actually, it might be interesting to get the full story. My great-grandparents went to Mexico from the US and (as the story goes) were kicked out of Mexico by Pancho Villa and the revolution. My great uncle was born in Mexico and there was an issue with his papers. Papers weren't kept as rigorously in the early part of the 1900's and I gather they fled Mexico somewhat precipitously. He had difficulty at various times when he needed to prove his citizenship and when he collected his social security in retirement. Borders are a lot more porous in real life.

I won't even get into the possible shenanigans with my other side of the family. They apparently treated New Brunswick Canada and New England as their own and just went back and forth and back and forth. They don't even talk about it.

Wow. Just wow.

I hate Mitt Romney, but I'm pretty sure this is bullshiat. I would laugh to see some mormons trying to swim across the Rio Grande, though.

Kinek: Corvus: Romney's great-grandfather, Miles Park Romney, fled the United States and crossed into Mexico in 1885 to escape religious persecution. He helped build the Mormon enclave of Colonia Juarez in Chihuahua.

That's a pretty PC way of saying "Was no longer allowing Polygamy marriages".

So the government Is allowed to regulate what is and is not marriage based on arbitrary tradition?

Because I've been getting for the last few years that not allowing same-sex marriage is persecution.

Polygamy marriage is not the same institution as marriage and is not protected based on a protected class like Same sex marriage is (gender).

You just said "SAME SEX MARRIAGE" so you believe it discriminates based on GENDER. What does polygamy discriminate on exactly?


Stopping Polygamy marriage is not arbitrary. Same sex marriage it is.

bighasbeen: I've got no problems with either provided everyone involved is an adult and knows what (and who) they're getting into.

However in Polygamy what happens is when a man is married to a woman it's 50/50 and then when he marries another woman it's 50/25/25. The new wife doesn't "marry" the other woman. the Husband decides to marry another woman and she has no say. Do you think marriages one person should have control like that and the other person doesn't?

Miles Park Romney never became a Mexican citizen, and neither did his son, Gaskell, or grandson, George. They were all denied Mexican citizenship because statutes on the books in Mexico denied that right to American settlers and their offspring.

Were they living in Mexico legally? I never have seen anything stating that they were.

Where is birth cert...Oh, it's a Republican. Who cares?

bighasbeen: Kinek: So the government Is allowed to regulate what is and is not marriage based on arbitrary tradition?

Because I've been getting for the last few years that not allowing same-sex marriage is persecution.

I've got no problems with either provided everyone involved is an adult and knows what (and who) they're getting into.

You kind of miss the best part if you're waiting for them to be old enough to be considered adults.

Religious persecution, ftl.

In other news, 1200 Mormons had moved to Mexico circa 1885 and came back in 1912. The more noteworthy is that it's a century later and we're still facing border banditry in mexico. Maybe I was wrong, maybe it's not the cartels and prohibition, it's the water.

JRoo: Where is birth cert...Oh, it's a Republican white guy. Who cares?

Perhaps they were "undocumented immigrants."
Non-story except for bringing up polygamy again and reiterating Mitt's general weirdness.

Who'da thunk the black Hawaiian with the Muslim name would end up being the most "normal" choice?

JRoo: Where is birth cert...Oh, it's a Republican. Who cares?

I'm looking for his factory serial number. He looks like a slightly later model than Al Gore.

cman:
Wow, dude, just wow

To be fair, while he's being a dick in presenting it, the argument for legalizing polygamous marriage is essentially equivalent to the same for gay marriage:

consenting adults - check
doesn't actually hurt anyone else - check
religions that ban it don't have to participate - check
government has no business denying relationships so long as there's not exploitation of minors, etc involved - check
emotional bullshiat red herring arguments involving hospital visitation policy - equally applicable

and so on.

Hilarious. Time to put the screws to Mitt.

wildcardjack: [crayfisher.files.wordpress.com image 450x557]

In other news, 1200 Mormons had moved to Mexico circa 1885 and came back in 1912. The more noteworthy is that it's a century later and we're still facing border banditry in mexico. Maybe I was wrong, maybe it's not the cartels and prohibition, it's the water.

The best answer is a combination of an aggressive imperial neighbor (the US) and a colonial legacy that left most Mexicans very distrustful of centralized federal government, in favor of their regional states.

/history professor
//the Punitive Expedition was a depressing preview of a lot of unsuccessful US military endeavors

Jim_Callahan: cman:
Wow, dude, just wow

To be fair, while he's being a dick in presenting it, the argument for legalizing polygamous marriage is essentially equivalent to the same for gay marriage:

consenting adults - check
doesn't actually hurt anyone else - check
religions that ban it don't have to participate - check
government has no business denying relationships so long as there's not exploitation of minors, etc involved - check
emotional bullshiat red herring arguments involving hospital visitation policy - equally applicable

and so on.

Politics tab, I thought the language of trolling might get through. My bad!

Corvus: Kinek: Corvus: Romney's great-grandfather, Miles Park Romney, fled the United States and crossed into Mexico in 1885 to escape religious persecution. He helped build the Mormon enclave of Colonia Juarez in Chihuahua.

That's a pretty PC way of saying "Was no longer allowing Polygamy marriages".

So the government Is allowed to regulate what is and is not marriage based on arbitrary tradition?

Because I've been getting for the last few years that not allowing same-sex marriage is persecution.

Polygamy marriage is not the same institution as marriage and is not protected based on a protected class like Same sex marriage is (gender).

You just said "SAME SEX MARRIAGE" so you believe it discriminates based on GENDER. What does polygamy discriminate on exactly?


Stopping Polygamy marriage is not arbitrary. Same sex marriage it is.

Size of the set rather than the characteristics of the members of the set?

I assume this is raised as an ironic parody of the stupidity of recent times?

On a detail note, should american citizens live illegally, for 30 years, in another country today and have a child/grandchild etc there, would your country accept the children back in as a citizens?

Jim_Callahan:

To be fair, while he's being a dick in presenting it, the argument for legalizing polygamous marriage is essentially equivalent to the same for gay marriage:


Different arguments. Gay marriage is a demand for equal rights. polygamy is a demand to establish an entirely different legal partnership, or demanding to be able to enter into multiple legal partnerships simultaneously..

In order to NOT allow gay marriage you have to actively say that a person can only marry someone of the other gender. Defining marriage as a contract which you can only have one of at a given time is somewhat different

Not making a value judgement here (though polygamy's history and frankly present is dark with incest, compulsion and exploitation of underage girls) just saying its not really a similiar case.

If Romney were to release his birth certificate, and it said Detroit, the birthers would go all African/Kenyan on him.

gaspode: Jim_Callahan:

To be fair, while he's being a dick in presenting it, the argument for legalizing polygamous marriage is essentially equivalent to the same for gay marriage:


Different arguments. Gay marriage is a demand for equal rights. polygamy is a demand to establish an entirely different legal partnership, or demanding to be able to enter into multiple legal partnerships simultaneously..

In order to NOT allow gay marriage you have to actively say that a person can only marry someone of the other gender. Defining marriage as a contract which you can only have one of at a given time is somewhat different

In order to not allow polygamy you have to actively say that only two people may enter a contract at a time.

Polygamous marriage is a demand for equal rights. Gay marriage is a demand to establish an entirely different legal partnership (man/man and woman/woman contracts).

Oh, look, I can take your arbitrary and largely imaginary distinction and do it the other way with equal validity (that is, not really any validity at all). I wonder what that says about the strength of this line of argument...

//I'm actually not trying to slyly undermine the pro-marriage position, I rather genuinely think Polygamy's the next on the docket for expanding the institution and have no problem with that for the same reasons I have no issue with the other. If it's what people want to do, fine, whatever.

This is ridiculously stupid and hilarious because of that.

Jim_Callahan: gaspode: Jim_Callahan:

To be fair, while he's being a dick in presenting it, the argument for legalizing polygamous marriage is essentially equivalent to the same for gay marriage:


Different arguments. Gay marriage is a demand for equal rights. polygamy is a demand to establish an entirely different legal partnership, or demanding to be able to enter into multiple legal partnerships simultaneously..

In order to NOT allow gay marriage you have to actively say that a person can only marry someone of the other gender. Defining marriage as a contract which you can only have one of at a given time is somewhat different

In order to not allow polygamy you have to actively say that only two people may enter a contract at a time.

Polygamous marriage is a demand for equal rights. Gay marriage is a demand to establish an entirely different legal partnership (man/man and woman/woman contracts).

Oh, look, I can take your arbitrary and largely imaginary distinction and do it the other way with equal validity (that is, not really any validity at all). I wonder what that says about the strength of this line of argument...

//I'm actually not trying to slyly undermine the pro-marriage position, I rather genuinely think Polygamy's the next on the docket for expanding the institution and have no problem with that for the same reasons I have no issue with the other. If it's what people want to do, fine, whatever.

It's more like an exclusivity clause in a contract. If the partner only wants one other, make sure there's a clause in there

This is just all kinds of wow. With all these screws tightening around the tightly-wound Mitt, I'm betting he's hired a pharmacist (new window) by now

Jim_Callahan: gaspode: Jim_Callahan:

To be fair, while he's being a dick in presenting it, the argument for legalizing polygamous marriage is essentially equivalent to the same for gay marriage:


Different arguments. Gay marriage is a demand for equal rights. polygamy is a demand to establish an entirely different legal partnership, or demanding to be able to enter into multiple legal partnerships simultaneously..

In order to NOT allow gay marriage you have to actively say that a person can only marry someone of the other gender. Defining marriage as a contract which you can only have one of at a given time is somewhat different

In order to not allow polygamy you have to actively say that only two people may enter a contract at a time.

Polygamous marriage is a demand for equal rights. Gay marriage is a demand to establish an entirely different legal partnership (man/man and woman/woman contracts).

Oh, look, I can take your arbitrary and largely imaginary distinction and do it the other way with equal validity (that is, not really any validity at all). I wonder what that says about the strength of this line of argument...

//I'm actually not trying to slyly undermine the pro-marriage position, I rather genuinely think Polygamy's the next on the docket for expanding the institution and have no problem with that for the same reasons I have no issue with the other. If it's what people want to do, fine, whatever.

Ill be honest I genuinely think you are wrong here. An exclusive contract between two bodies is enormously simpler than one between more than two, and is almost entirely unaffected in its details by the gender of the parties. Therefore the addition of the gender restriction is arbitrary.

To make shared ownership/responsibility/rights work across assymetric multiples is flat out complex. It isn't simply a matter of saying 'you can have more than one marriage on the go', as a subsequent one affect the other party in the first one significantly.

Smoking GNU: WE GET IT, HE'S A MORON!

FTFY

A Dark Evil Omen: FARTROMNEY
WHERE
BIRTH CERTIFICT
whe

Gods, I hope this becomes a thing. Not because I think there's any validity to it, I just enjoy watching the GOP being eaten by its own (borderline psychotic) young.