And is dumbassery, no?

Agreed, Dr. Zombie.

but.... while the bible really doesn't say much about abortion, it does more or less imply that women are nothing but property, so not exactly the most thought out argument against the pro life crowd.

The idea with this is that uterus is like a rental property and the baby like a renter. The renter has no rights and can be evicted at anytime without due process.

Thisbymaster: The idea with this is that uterus is like a rental property and the baby like a renter. The renter has no rights and can be evicted at anytime without due process.

I've had overbearing landlords before, but that's something else entirely!

Look, it's like this. I imagine if I were a woman I would have a little more respect for myself and not allow a life within me to be snuffed out so since you are doing wrong it is my duty and obligation to save your soul.

Teknowaffle: Cool, you pop out the baby, I won't pay for it if I didn't have any say.

Never had a problem with abortion, and never will.

I DO have a problem with expecting somebody else to pay for kids that don't belong to them. Fark that.

You birth em' you pay for em'.

Thisbymaster: The idea with this is that uterus is like a rental property and the baby like a renter. The renter has no rights and can be evicted at anytime without due process.

Damn squatters.

The MEN supposedly want to please the imaginary sky fairy by being "compassionate" and doing what strokes his ego to get their ticket stamped for "heaven"

But in reality

They want to Indulge their inner power-hungry cave man by passing and enforcing laws to keep those uppity women in their place.

One thing you'll notice. All those anti-abortion types care not one whit about those "po' l'i'l unborn bay-beez" once they have been born, since they tend not to be in favor of any sort of social welfare safety net, and you'll find the majority are rabid supporters of war and the death penalty.

In other words, thoroughly nasty retrograde individuals, Fark 'em and their primitive brains.

The point is we're talking about the person who has the misfortune of inhabiting that uterus, not the uterus itself. However, if you consider the kind of woman who would consider abortion as an acceptable form of birth control, it's probably in the best interest of both the child and the mother. Poor kid would have come into the world with 2 strikes against it.

but I know, this is just an example of men "picking on" women, playing into their persecution/paranoia complex.

it's OK girl, we know everyone's out to get you and put you back in the kitchen, and force you to marry the prince against your will.

blah, blah, blah.

rosaries v.s ovaries

fight!

CitizensUnited: The point is we're talking about the person who has the misfortune of inhabiting that uterus, not the uterus itself. However, if you consider the kind of woman who would consider abortion as an acceptable form of birth control, it's probably in the best interest of both the child and the mother. Poor kid would have come into the world with 2 strikes against it.

but I know, this is just an example of men "picking on" women, playing into their persecution/paranoia complex.

it's OK girl, we know everyone's out to get you and put you back in the kitchen, and force you to marry the prince against your will.

blah, blah, blah.

That's not what they're talking about at all. It's a potential person. Until it can hold a coherent conversation with me, it's not a person. So 12 or so minimum, never for some people.

don't understand how or why va jay jay was ever considered fair grounds for some religion or government to claim ruling authority over.

abortion. prostitution. cosmetic piercings. whatever. that is personal stuff, that is someones body. takes balls deluxe to think you can tell someone else what they may or may not do with their cooch, or to declare such action legal or illegal. bullshiat.

the proper thing to do is round up those with major objections, those that want to lord and reign over women's vaginas, and kill them. then there will be no more complaints.

those in suits and robes only have the power and authority we allow them to have. 'they' need to be reminded, in a most spectacular way.

/power to teh pussy

"Whore!"

Wow. A level-headed politician making total sense about an issue that shouldn't really be an issue. If I may borrow another Farker's idiom (don't remember who it was, but it was funny), it's as clear as beer piss that abortion should be readily available. That's not to say it should be used as birth control, but if you think it through, it's a good thing, because women who WOULD use it as such shouldn't be parents. Or, another way, I pity the child that is FORCED to be born to a parent who doesn't want it.

/Good on you, Diana DeGette

FloydA: Give out free condoms to every teenage boy and free pills, IUDs or other methods to every teenage girl. That would do more to prevent abortion than all of your bumper stickers, protests, bombings and murders combined.

A lot of these people think that the pill causes abortions, since fertilized but not implanted eggs are people too.

A: Cause biches say so.


/Biches love saying so.

I think that at the philosophical root, abortion is a dicey subject, just because it's so very difficult to draw the line between pre-human and human. Because of that, I'd like to see abortion minimized as much as possible. The easiest and most humanitarian method of doing so is by providing comprehensive sex education and birth control. I don't know a single woman who would actually prefer getting an abortion to not getting pregnant in the first place.

It is very disappointing to me that the 'pro-life' contingent in this country is also anti-birth-control. I know it's rooted in a very fundamentalist type of religion, but it just runs contrary to all logic. According to people like Rick Santorum, a woman like me, a mom who has an IUD because I'm not ready for another child, is a baby-murderer as much as someone who commits infanticide, and that is an irrational, indefensible stance.

How much should you tip your abortion provider? 20%?

i_got_no_strings: I think that at the philosophical root, abortion is a dicey subject, just because it's so very difficult to draw the line between pre-human and human. Because of that, I'd like to see abortion minimized as much as possible. The easiest and most humanitarian method of doing so is by providing comprehensive sex education and birth control. I don't know a single woman who would actually prefer getting an abortion to not getting pregnant in the first place.

It is very disappointing to me that the 'pro-life' contingent in this country is also anti-birth-control. I know it's rooted in a very fundamentalist type of religion, but it just runs contrary to all logic. According to people like Rick Santorum, a woman like me, a mom who has an IUD because I'm not ready for another child, is a baby-murderer as much as someone who commits infanticide, and that is an irrational, indefensible stance.

Look, consciousness is a recyclable material.

Get over yerselves, please.

I have.

Dark energy and matter is mind, mark my words...

;)

We should direct federal research dollars into making an ARTIFICIAL uterus, paid for by socialized medicine dollars.

No abortions! We just TRANSFER the fetus into a government artificial-womb farm, where the soul can be properly cared for.



Also, we'll give them Stormtrooper armor as they grow up. That'll be SO cool! So they'll be, you know, productive citizens.

theorellior: I'm popping some kettle corn for this thread, anybody need some Junior Mints or M&Ms?

Gummy bears and buttered popcorn, please.

As a PP member, I'm really getting a kick, etc.

doglover:
[eroticarta2z.com image 500x143]


lol

When I'm rich I will adopt 10s of 1000s of children and teach them the importance of the right to choose.

Take that Duggars

I'm glad I can't have kids and I would definitely vote for the congresswoman in tfa. It is up to the woman to decide.

ElVee: Can I get a masters in Uterine Management?

Yes, and you can also get a Uterine Fine-Industrial Arts degree too.

theorellior: CitizensUnited: The point is we're talking about the person who has the misfortune of inhabiting that uterus, not the uterus itself.

A blastocyct is not a person. Thank you for playing.

Yes it is.
..........and this is pretty much the whole controversy which is why it will never end.

FloydA: jadedlee: FloydA: Give out free condoms to every teenage boy and free pills, IUDs or other methods to every teenage girl. That would do more to prevent abortion than all of your bumper stickers, protests, bombings and murders combined.

A lot of these people think that the pill causes abortions, since fertilized but not implanted eggs are people too.

Then I recommend they read up on how the pill actually works. Most birth control pills release enough estrogen and progesterone to prevent ovulation, so there is no egg to be fertilized.

I can sort of understand the reasoning behind the opposition to terminating a fetus that is already developed. (I still think it's nobody's business other than the woman and her doctor, but I can at least comprehend the emotions behind it.)

I cannot comprehend the concept that people who don't want offspring should be forced to have them anyway. If I really wanted to prevent abortion, I would want to make contraceptives free. I might even consider paying people to use them.
I

It's not the primary mechanism but there is evidence the pill does prevent implantation as a secondary mechanism. Yaz even carries that somewhere in their 800 page label. It's also present with IUDs and EC. It seems logical - they all have very high effective rates when used as directed and it's unlikely that would be true if there weren't inherent secondary protections.

Someday I hope we do have free contraception of all kinds. For now, confirming the no co-pay rule is a good start.

Cool, you pop out the baby, I won't pay for it if I didn't have any say.

If you have sex and a pregnancy results, you should have the option of paying for 1/2 the abortion costs, or paying for 1/2 of the birth and medical costs. If you chose to pay for 1/2 the abortion costs and she decides to have it anyway, you pay the amount you agreed to and walk away - with no rights to the child at all. No support payment and no visitation.

Look, it'sI rationalize subjugating women like this. I imagine if I were a woman I would have a little more respect for myself and not allow a life within me to be snuffed out so since you are doing wrong it is my duty and obligation to save your soul.

FTFY

The point is we're talking about the person who has the misfortune of inhabiting that uterus, not the uterus itself.

My definition of a person requires a functioning brain (necessary but not sufficient condition). Thus until the brain forms and is hooked up, it is not a person.

I also recognize that not everyone uses my definition and they have a right to make decisions based on their own definition. They do NOT have a right to make decisions for someone else based on their definition.

ElVee: Can I get a masters in Uterine Management?

ouch, that's an expensive degree. good luck with that student loan burden.

Wait,

You need to pass a test to reproduce now.

That is all.

P.S. I'm working on that test right now. ;)

There shouldn't be a continued discussion. Abortion is and should remain legal to anyone who needs/wants it.

Birth Control should be freely available, encouraged, and paid for by the government.

People who are not mature enough to deal with the idea that people have sex should be excluded from conversations about these issues.