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(The Daily Caller)   Jobs for All: Alabama's unemployment rate continues to drop after state-wide enforcement of a new immigration law   (dailycaller.com) divider line 257
    More: Obvious, new immigration, Perry County, Alabama, Alabamians  
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14756 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jan 2012 at 3:16 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-22 07:18:49 PM

KimNorth: OgreMagi: Indubitably: Outlawing immigrants is like outlawing bees.

Immigration has not been outlawed. People enter this country every day legally. Entering the country without going through the proper channels is a crime. People who commit crimes are normally punished in some way.

I have an idea. Why don't we implement the exact same immigration laws as Mexico. Would that make you happy?

That's a GREAT idea!!! Fair is fair after all.



That may be a bit of a drastic change. I think perhaps we should consider first adopting immigration requirements similar to what Canada has. Canada requires English language proficiency and proof of employment or employable skills. Not an unreasonable standard at all.

However, I am assuming that Canada will now be declared incorrigibly racist by the pro-illegal immigration advocates. No further explanation will be given for this diagnosis, of course.
 
2012-01-22 07:33:00 PM

borg7of9: Indubitably: OgreMagi: Indubitably: Outlawing immigrants is like outlawing bees.

Immigration has not been outlawed. People enter this country every day legally. Entering the country without going through the proper channels is a crime. People who commit crimes are normally punished in some way.

I have an idea. Why don't we implement the exact same immigration laws as Mexico. Would that make you happy?

No.

I'm not happy until classist judgers judge less, work more, and spend more time being grateful and less time being uploaded humbs.

Seriously.

99rs, i.e. the restivus, get it; why can't you you?

Revoolution?

Unnecessary if ya'll oners start looking out of those windows you'll need to craft in yer bellies to see with the eyes you've so firmly placed in your anuses...

Heh!

;)

Why don't you want to implement Mexican immigration laws here?


I want to implement Mexican integration into the economy of America. I mean, seriously, how has this not already happened? We are humans. What are borders, right? Amirite? Yer drug economy already warrants serious inclusion. Your food is the most loved food in America. Yer language is beautiful. You are an ancient human, and I like that.

Ultimately, we will all live together, b/c we already do...
 
2012-01-22 07:42:04 PM

Indubitably: borg7of9: Indubitably: OgreMagi: Indubitably: Outlawing immigrants is like outlawing bees.

Immigration has not been outlawed. People enter this country every day legally. Entering the country without going through the proper channels is a crime. People who commit crimes are normally punished in some way.

I have an idea. Why don't we implement the exact same immigration laws as Mexico. Would that make you happy?

No.

I'm not happy until classist judgers judge less, work more, and spend more time being grateful and less time being uploaded humbs.

Seriously.

99rs, i.e. the restivus, get it; why can't you you?

Revoolution?

Unnecessary if ya'll oners start looking out of those windows you'll need to craft in yer bellies to see with the eyes you've so firmly placed in your anuses...

Heh!

;)

Why don't you want to implement Mexican immigration laws here?

I want to implement Mexican integration into the economy of America. I mean, seriously, how has this not already happened? We are humans. What are borders, right? Amirite? Yer drug economy already warrants serious inclusion. Your food is the most loved food in America. Yer language is beautiful. You are an ancient human, and I like that.

Ultimately, we will all live together, b/c we already do...



I still want to know what you think would be wrong with implementing the same immigration laws as Mexico. Is there something wrong with them?
 
2012-01-22 07:45:15 PM
The denial runs deep on Fark.
 
2012-01-22 07:47:54 PM

borg7of9: Indubitably: borg7of9: Indubitably: OgreMagi: Indubitably: Outlawing immigrants is like outlawing bees.

Immigration has not been outlawed. People enter this country every day legally. Entering the country without going through the proper channels is a crime. People who commit crimes are normally punished in some way.

I have an idea. Why don't we implement the exact same immigration laws as Mexico. Would that make you happy?

No.

I'm not happy until classist judgers judge less, work more, and spend more time being grateful and less time being uploaded humbs.

Seriously.

99rs, i.e. the restivus, get it; why can't you you?

Revoolution?

Unnecessary if ya'll oners start looking out of those windows you'll need to craft in yer bellies to see with the eyes you've so firmly placed in your anuses...

Heh!

;)

Why don't you want to implement Mexican immigration laws here?

I want to implement Mexican integration into the economy of America. I mean, seriously, how has this not already happened? We are humans. What are borders, right? Amirite? Yer drug economy already warrants serious inclusion. Your food is the most loved food in America. Yer language is beautiful. You are an ancient human, and I like that.

Ultimately, we will all live together, b/c we already do...


I still want to know what you think would be wrong with implementing the same immigration laws as Mexico. Is there something wrong with them?


Nope.

I am unfamiliar with their immigration laws.

I happen to love people, regardless of their political borders and immigratory-law...
 
2012-01-22 07:51:15 PM

Sudlow: Gunther
"Is it dropping faster than the national rate is dropping?"

1.7% in 3 months? Why yes, i think it is.


No.

California's unemployment is dropping at about the same rate. And we haven't been chasing illegal Germans out of our state.
 
2012-01-22 07:55:48 PM

Indubitably: borg7of9: Indubitably: borg7of9: Indubitably: OgreMagi: Indubitably: Outlawing immigrants is like outlawing bees.

Immigration has not been outlawed. People enter this country every day legally. Entering the country without going through the proper channels is a crime. People who commit crimes are normally punished in some way.

I have an idea. Why don't we implement the exact same immigration laws as Mexico. Would that make you happy?

No.

I'm not happy until classist judgers judge less, work more, and spend more time being grateful and less time being uploaded humbs.

Seriously.

99rs, i.e. the restivus, get it; why can't you you?

Revoolution?

Unnecessary if ya'll oners start looking out of those windows you'll need to craft in yer bellies to see with the eyes you've so firmly placed in your anuses...

Heh!

;)

Why don't you want to implement Mexican immigration laws here?

I want to implement Mexican integration into the economy of America. I mean, seriously, how has this not already happened? We are humans. What are borders, right? Amirite? Yer drug economy already warrants serious inclusion. Your food is the most loved food in America. Yer language is beautiful. You are an ancient human, and I like that.

Ultimately, we will all live together, b/c we already do...


I still want to know what you think would be wrong with implementing the same immigration laws as Mexico. Is there something wrong with them?

Nope.

I am unfamiliar with their immigration laws.

I happen to love people, regardless of their political borders and immigratory-law...



Well if you familiarized yourself with their immigration laws, you'd see that you would be the only one "loving" people because they won't love you back if you break their laws. And I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any of the illegal immigrants here (or very many natives there) to come to your rescue if you ever happen to be caught breaking Mexican immigration laws.
 
2012-01-22 07:57:47 PM

supayoda: minoridiot: Since they are only reporting through December, I'd say that may be seasaonl hiring is a more likely explaination.

Came to say this. I live in Alabama, and I haven't exactly seen a huge rise in white people picking fruit.


Just where in Alabama is there fruit to pick in November and December?

Here's a hint from someone that's lived here 40 years - nowhere.

I don't know if the law's having any real impact, but your statement is pure dumbass.
 
2012-01-22 07:58:00 PM

borg7of9: Indubitably: borg7of9: Indubitably: borg7of9: Indubitably: OgreMagi: Indubitably: Outlawing immigrants is like outlawing bees.

Immigration has not been outlawed. People enter this country every day legally. Entering the country without going through the proper channels is a crime. People who commit crimes are normally punished in some way.

I have an idea. Why don't we implement the exact same immigration laws as Mexico. Would that make you happy?

No.

I'm not happy until classist judgers judge less, work more, and spend more time being grateful and less time being uploaded humbs.

Seriously.

99rs, i.e. the restivus, get it; why can't you you?

Revoolution?

Unnecessary if ya'll oners start looking out of those windows you'll need to craft in yer bellies to see with the eyes you've so firmly placed in your anuses...

Heh!

;)

Why don't you want to implement Mexican immigration laws here?

I want to implement Mexican integration into the economy of America. I mean, seriously, how has this not already happened? We are humans. What are borders, right? Amirite? Yer drug economy already warrants serious inclusion. Your food is the most loved food in America. Yer language is beautiful. You are an ancient human, and I like that.

Ultimately, we will all live together, b/c we already do...


I still want to know what you think would be wrong with implementing the same immigration laws as Mexico. Is there something wrong with them?

Nope.

I am unfamiliar with their immigration laws.

I happen to love people, regardless of their political borders and immigratory-law...


Well if you familiarized yourself with their immigration laws, you'd see that you would be the only one "loving" people because they won't love you back if you break their laws. And I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any of the illegal immigrants here (or very many natives there) to come to your rescue if you ever happen to be caught breaking Mexican immigration laws.


Oh well, their intolerance should be my rudder? Should Britain's in the 18th century, too?

OFOT!
 
Pav
2012-01-22 08:00:02 PM
Sorry but if Obama gets the blame for high unemployment rate he gets to take credit for this drop in unemployment.

You can't have it both ways conservitards
 
2012-01-22 08:05:00 PM

Pav: Sorry but if Obama gets the blame for high unemployment rate he gets to take credit for this drop in unemployment.

You can't have it both ways conservitards


Obviously, it's the strong sentiment created against illegal immigrants and the strong anti-immigrant laws proposed and created by Republicans in defiance of Obama and enforced despite him that have caused the amazing drop in unemployment (even in places where there aren't any such policies).

Actually, it's his fault unemployment isn't going down MORE!!!!

/I should work for FAUX.
 
2012-01-22 08:08:58 PM

Indubitably: borg7of9: Indubitably: borg7of9: Indubitably: borg7of9: Indubitably: OgreMagi: Indubitably: Outlawing immigrants is like outlawing bees.

Immigration has not been outlawed. People enter this country every day legally. Entering the country without going through the proper channels is a crime. People who commit crimes are normally punished in some way.

I have an idea. Why don't we implement the exact same immigration laws as Mexico. Would that make you happy?

No.

I'm not happy until classist judgers judge less, work more, and spend more time being grateful and less time being uploaded humbs.

Seriously.

99rs, i.e. the restivus, get it; why can't you you?

Revoolution?

Unnecessary if ya'll oners start looking out of those windows you'll need to craft in yer bellies to see with the eyes you've so firmly placed in your anuses...

Heh!

;)

Why don't you want to implement Mexican immigration laws here?

I want to implement Mexican integration into the economy of America. I mean, seriously, how has this not already happened? We are humans. What are borders, right? Amirite? Yer drug economy already warrants serious inclusion. Your food is the most loved food in America. Yer language is beautiful. You are an ancient human, and I like that.

Ultimately, we will all live together, b/c we already do...


I still want to know what you think would be wrong with implementing the same immigration laws as Mexico. Is there something wrong with them?

Nope.

I am unfamiliar with their immigration laws.

I happen to love people, regardless of their political borders and immigratory-law...


Well if you familiarized yourself with their immigration laws, you'd see that you would be the only one "loving" people because they won't love you back if you break their laws. And I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any of the illegal immigrants here (or very many natives there) to come to your rescue if you ever happen to be caught breaking Mexican immigration laws.

Oh well, their ...


When the issue is Britain and it's the 18th century again, that point might be relevant. Right now it's not. I just want you to realize and remember that if you go there and break their laws, they'll actually enforce them and have no problem with it. And neither would I. Their laws are their laws and people have to obey them if they decide to go there. Nothing wrong with that, is there?
 
2012-01-22 08:16:06 PM

borg7of9: Indubitably: borg7of9: Indubitably: borg7of9: Indubitably: borg7of9: Indubitably: OgreMagi: Indubitably: Outlawing immigrants is like outlawing bees.

Immigration has not been outlawed. People enter this country every day legally. Entering the country without going through the proper channels is a crime. People who commit crimes are normally punished in some way.

I have an idea. Why don't we implement the exact same immigration laws as Mexico. Would that make you happy?

No.

I'm not happy until classist judgers judge less, work more, and spend more time being grateful and less time being uploaded humbs.

Seriously.

99rs, i.e. the restivus, get it; why can't you you?

Revoolution?

Unnecessary if ya'll oners start looking out of those windows you'll need to craft in yer bellies to see with the eyes you've so firmly placed in your anuses...

Heh!

;)

Why don't you want to implement Mexican immigration laws here?

I want to implement Mexican integration into the economy of America. I mean, seriously, how has this not already happened? We are humans. What are borders, right? Amirite? Yer drug economy already warrants serious inclusion. Your food is the most loved food in America. Yer language is beautiful. You are an ancient human, and I like that.

Ultimately, we will all live together, b/c we already do...


I still want to know what you think would be wrong with implementing the same immigration laws as Mexico. Is there something wrong with them?

Nope.

I am unfamiliar with their immigration laws.

I happen to love people, regardless of their political borders and immigratory-law...


Well if you familiarized yourself with their immigration laws, you'd see that you would be the only one "loving" people because they won't love you back if you break their laws. And I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any of the illegal immigrants here (or very many natives there) to come to your rescue if you ever happen to be caught breaking Mexican immigration laws.

Oh ...


Please.

You are an exemplar of what is wrong in Congress currently.

Baby, bathwater, mind, all of it: *exeunt*

;)
 
2012-01-22 08:25:02 PM
So it wasn't the illegal immigrants who were at fault by taking the jobs, but rather the employers for giving those jobs to illegal immigrants.
 
2012-01-22 08:25:37 PM

Indubitably: borg7of9: Indubitably: borg7of9: Indubitably: borg7of9: Indubitably: borg7of9: Indubitably: OgreMagi: Indubitably: Outlawing immigrants is like outlawing bees.

Immigration has not been outlawed. People enter this country every day legally. Entering the country without going through the proper channels is a crime. People who commit crimes are normally punished in some way.

I have an idea. Why don't we implement the exact same immigration laws as Mexico. Would that make you happy?

No.

I'm not happy until classist judgers judge less, work more, and spend more time being grateful and less time being uploaded humbs.

Seriously.

99rs, i.e. the restivus, get it; why can't you you?

Revoolution?

Unnecessary if ya'll oners start looking out of those windows you'll need to craft in yer bellies to see with the eyes you've so firmly placed in your anuses...

Heh!

;)

Why don't you want to implement Mexican immigration laws here?

I want to implement Mexican integration into the economy of America. I mean, seriously, how has this not already happened? We are humans. What are borders, right? Amirite? Yer drug economy already warrants serious inclusion. Your food is the most loved food in America. Yer language is beautiful. You are an ancient human, and I like that.

Ultimately, we will all live together, b/c we already do...


I still want to know what you think would be wrong with implementing the same immigration laws as Mexico. Is there something wrong with them?

Nope.

I am unfamiliar with their immigration laws.

I happen to love people, regardless of their political borders and immigratory-law...


Well if you familiarized yourself with their immigration laws, you'd see that you would be the only one "loving" people because they won't love you back if you break their laws. And I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any of the illegal immigrants here (or very many natives there) to come to your rescue if you ever happen to be caught breaking Mexican immigration ...


Actually YOU sound like a stereotypical politician because you actual really answer the questions people ask you. You just bring up irrelevant crap and go off on tangents that you think are clever. Plus your analogies never have anything to do with the point anyone else makes.
 
2012-01-22 08:26:15 PM

Gyrfalcon: Sudlow: Gunther
"Is it dropping faster than the national rate is dropping?"

1.7% in 3 months? Why yes, i think it is.

No.

California's unemployment is dropping at about the same rate. And we haven't been chasing illegal Germans out of our state.


not even close.
cal
sep 11.9
dec 11.1
7% decrease

ala
sep 9.8
dec 8.1
17% decrease

and California actually has industries that are valuable in the 21st century. they should be kicking alabama's ass. but unemployment is decreasing more than twice as fast in hickville. it may have nothing to do with this policy at this point, but objectively the alabama policy is the only correct policy for American worker.
 
2012-01-22 08:31:21 PM
The other question I have about Alabama is: OK, the unemployment rate is dropping, fine. But.

Is the EMPLOYMENT rate RISING? And if so, in what areas?

Or are we just seeing people falling off the unemployment rolls as they stop looking for work (since that's the new metric)? Or are they becoming "employed" in such sterling jobs as potato pickers, roadside weed-cutters and trash pickers? In other words, what has Alabama gained by this increase in employment, if such a thing has in fact occurred?
 
2012-01-22 08:41:34 PM

Gyrfalcon: The other question I have about Alabama is: OK, the unemployment rate is dropping, fine. But.

Is the EMPLOYMENT rate RISING? And if so, in what areas?

Or are we just seeing people falling off the unemployment rolls as they stop looking for work (since that's the new metric)? Or are they becoming "employed" in such sterling jobs as potato pickers, roadside weed-cutters and trash pickers? In other words, what has Alabama gained by this increase in employment, if such a thing has in fact occurred?


Why would you see that in Ala but not neighboring states with similiar economies?


This program is great for un- or low-skilled american workers. In the long run Alabama agriculture may get farked because they are going to have to compete with neighboring states who have no problem with second class people working with no protections that american citizens expect.
 
2012-01-22 08:45:48 PM
"Asked at a news conference whether Alabama's new immigration law is a factor, [Alabama Governor] Bentley said there is no way to tell for sure because unemployment has dropped in states without immigration laws, but the law may be a factor in some counties."
link

/amazing how it sounds from a source of actual journalism, instead of some hack website.
 
2012-01-22 08:46:06 PM
"what part of legal immigration don't you understand?"

Link (new window)
aka how the system works. [or does not ]
 
2012-01-22 08:54:35 PM

liam76: Gyrfalcon: The other question I have about Alabama is: OK, the unemployment rate is dropping, fine. But.

Is the EMPLOYMENT rate RISING? And if so, in what areas?

Or are we just seeing people falling off the unemployment rolls as they stop looking for work (since that's the new metric)? Or are they becoming "employed" in such sterling jobs as potato pickers, roadside weed-cutters and trash pickers? In other words, what has Alabama gained by this increase in employment, if such a thing has in fact occurred?

Why would you see that in Ala but not neighboring states with similiar economies?


This program is great for un- or low-skilled american workers. In the long run Alabama agriculture may get farked because they are going to have to compete with neighboring states who have no problem with second class people working with no protections that american citizens expect.


Well, that's my question. What are we seeing in general with the dip in unemployment? As I said, the new metric seems to be to drop people off the lists if they're not actually looking for work (and hence "unemployed"). Why don't we quote the "employment" rate?

And is Alabama's rate going down commensurate with neighboring states' rates going up at the same rate? Or with states' whose economies are similar losing employees in similar industries? (In other words: If lots of people are suddenly employed as potato pickers in Alabama, it does no good overall if suddenly lots of people in Idaho are unemployed potato pickers)

One of the things that got us into this fine mess is being so worried about how many people AREN'T working, we don't focus on the people who ARE, and more importantly, at WHAT. It doesn't matter if 100% of the workforce is employed, you see, if 50% of them are working at unskilled disposable labor that can easily be outsourced or lost to mechanization/computerization.
 
2012-01-22 09:06:51 PM

Gyrfalcon: The other question I have about Alabama is: OK, the unemployment rate is dropping, fine. But.

Is the EMPLOYMENT rate RISING? And if so, in what areas?

Or are we just seeing people falling off the unemployment rolls as they stop looking for work (since that's the new metric)? Or are they becoming "employed" in such sterling jobs as potato pickers, roadside weed-cutters and trash pickers? In other words, what has Alabama gained by this increase in employment, if such a thing has in fact occurred?


yeah, could be anything really. and these numbers get revised over time as well because they work off small sample sizes at the beginning. they might be off. states get these numbers by surveying businesses at first, and of course very few businesses get those surveys back or answer the phones at first. later on actual payroll data comes into the state. at least that was the way it worked at one point.
 
2012-01-22 09:17:37 PM

Gyrfalcon: Pav: Sorry but if Obama gets the blame for high unemployment rate he gets to take credit for this drop in unemployment.

You can't have it both ways conservitards

Obviously, it's the strong sentiment created against illegal immigrants and the strong anti-immigrant laws proposed and created by Republicans in defiance of Obama and enforced despite him that have caused the amazing drop in unemployment (even in places where there aren't any such policies).

Actually, it's his fault unemployment isn't going down MORE!!!!

/I should work for FAUX.


You both make zero sense. So you are arguing that one person can cause a problem, but a DIFFERENT person cannot solve it.

If Obama burned a crop down to the ground and then Mr. ABC came along and replanted the crop, Obama gets the credit for the crop being 'fixed'?

Wow, that's some interesting logic there.
 
2012-01-22 10:12:59 PM

Wolf892: Turns out when we remove brown people from the equation white black people benefit. Who knew?


FTFY

If the jobless rate really is dropping due to the illegals leaving then it's most likely that the vacancies are being taken by lower income bracketed black people.
 
2012-01-22 10:14:50 PM

imprimere: The opposition to this is downright funny! Hey, it's a coincidence! This is racist! Really people? They are ILLEGAL. Rather you like them or not, they are not operating within the law. And by "they", I mean the illegal immigrants AND the employers. Yes, when you remove the cheap illegal labor, the jobs will be filled by legal workers, whether they be white, brown or black.

And for the support, don't go cheering to loudly just yet. There are logical consequences for this. When businesses can't get that cheap labor, costs WILL rise. Rather it be in the form of lower cap wages or higher costs of goods and services. American businesses haven't shown a penchant for just earning less and sucking it up.

Still, this is what should happen. It's a slap in the face to hard working Americans and millions of immigrants who arrived here and when through the legal process. Just because some people can jump a border, work cheaply (for the US), and send their money back home doesn't make them right or desirable.


Correlation or causation on TFA's result, please? With the name of the researcher?
 
2012-01-22 10:15:40 PM

smimmy: Wolf892: Turns out when we remove brown people from the equation white black people benefit. Who knew?

FTFY

If the jobless rate really is dropping due to the illegals leaving then it's most likely that the vacancies are being taken by lower income bracketed black people.


Fixed that for YOU.
 
2012-01-22 10:21:16 PM

PsiChick: imprimere: The opposition to this is downright funny! Hey, it's a coincidence! This is racist! Really people? They are ILLEGAL. Rather you like them or not, they are not operating within the law. And by "they", I mean the illegal immigrants AND the employers. Yes, when you remove the cheap illegal labor, the jobs will be filled by legal workers, whether they be white, brown or black.

And for the support, don't go cheering to loudly just yet. There are logical consequences for this. When businesses can't get that cheap labor, costs WILL rise. Rather it be in the form of lower cap wages or higher costs of goods and services. American businesses haven't shown a penchant for just earning less and sucking it up.

Still, this is what should happen. It's a slap in the face to hard working Americans and millions of immigrants who arrived here and when through the legal process. Just because some people can jump a border, work cheaply (for the US), and send their money back home doesn't make them right or desirable.

Correlation or causation on TFA's result, please? With the name of the researcher?


What? Can you use complete and coherent sentences to make your point?
 
2012-01-22 10:26:15 PM
 
2012-01-22 10:27:37 PM

dahmers love zombie: Obviously a law like this will lower the unemployment rate. You'd have to really be terminally ignorant to deny this. It, however, isn't the question that needs to be answered.

The question that is relevant is "What is the law doing to the employers in the state?". If Alabama manages to drive out 90% of agribusiness over the next five years, that might have a little bit of effect on the state's economy. I wonder what the overall population change is going to be. Run off a couple hundred thousand people, and there will likely be a ripple effect in the service industry that we won't see for a few months.

My money's on a significant bounce in unemployment by November.


Nothing's keeping the farmers from doing the paperwork to bring in legal guest workers to help pick their crops. They've just been too lazy and cheap to do so when everyone basically turned a blind eye to the issue at hand. I don't think you'll see squat in November but a continuing decline in unemployment as the farmers finally get their shiat together and start filling out the H-2A visa paperwork they should have been doing in the first place.
 
2012-01-22 10:42:09 PM

imprimere: PsiChick: imprimere: The opposition to this is downright funny! Hey, it's a coincidence! This is racist! Really people? They are ILLEGAL. Rather you like them or not, they are not operating within the law. And by "they", I mean the illegal immigrants AND the employers. Yes, when you remove the cheap illegal labor, the jobs will be filled by legal workers, whether they be white, brown or black.

And for the support, don't go cheering to loudly just yet. There are logical consequences for this. When businesses can't get that cheap labor, costs WILL rise. Rather it be in the form of lower cap wages or higher costs of goods and services. American businesses haven't shown a penchant for just earning less and sucking it up.

Still, this is what should happen. It's a slap in the face to hard working Americans and millions of immigrants who arrived here and when through the legal process. Just because some people can jump a border, work cheaply (for the US), and send their money back home doesn't make them right or desirable.

Correlation or causation on TFA's result, please? With the name of the researcher?

What? Can you use complete and coherent sentences to make your point?


Legality was not the point of TFA. TFA tried to state a causation effect between stopping illegal immigration and jobs being available. While this premise makes sense, it was not actually supported.

Your position, however, is based in TFA, because it was essentially saying 'illegals bad' without any proof or context.
 
2012-01-22 10:44:33 PM

eggrolls: The real news already called shenanigans.


No, they didn't.

First, they got some economist to say that more people quit looking for jobs, but he doesn't indicate where he got this number. It's easy to get numbers on employment, but I'm not sure where you come up with an imperical figure on people who aren't searching. Secondly, even if his number is accurate, he does not mention what this figure is for neighboring states (or the country as a whole) where the unemployment rate is not dropping so rapidly.

Even Bentley says there is no way to be certain, but your CBS article is hardly debunking anything said in the other article.
 
2012-01-22 10:53:15 PM

PsiChick: imprimere: PsiChick: imprimere: The opposition to this is downright funny! Hey, it's a coincidence! This is racist! Really people? They are ILLEGAL. Rather you like them or not, they are not operating within the law. And by "they", I mean the illegal immigrants AND the employers. Yes, when you remove the cheap illegal labor, the jobs will be filled by legal workers, whether they be white, brown or black.

And for the support, don't go cheering to loudly just yet. There are logical consequences for this. When businesses can't get that cheap labor, costs WILL rise. Rather it be in the form of lower cap wages or higher costs of goods and services. American businesses haven't shown a penchant for just earning less and sucking it up.

Still, this is what should happen. It's a slap in the face to hard working Americans and millions of immigrants who arrived here and when through the legal process. Just because some people can jump a border, work cheaply (for the US), and send their money back home doesn't make them right or desirable.

Correlation or causation on TFA's result, please? With the name of the researcher?

What? Can you use complete and coherent sentences to make your point?

Legality was not the point of TFA. TFA tried to state a causation effect between stopping illegal immigration and jobs being available. While this premise makes sense, it was not actually supported.

Your position, however, is based in TFA, because it was essentially saying 'illegals bad' without any proof or context.


Negative. My point has absolutely NOTHING to do with what's in the article. I said this should happen because they are ILLEGAL. Regardless of what results in the employment sector, it is wrong to just let people come to the country, take money from the economy, not pay taxes, and usually send that money back to their country. How much more context do you need?

I'll agree that the evidence isn't sufficiently supported, but there is no real evidence to the contrary. Hanging on the "causation" argument is more silly than correlating the immigration crackdown with the unemployment drop. The degree can absolutely be called in to question, but it is almost a certainity that at least one legal worker gained a job because illegals were removed from the equation.
 
2012-01-22 10:59:46 PM

jimmyjackfunk: the folks talking about they have no problem with immigrants trying to obtain entry into the country through the proper legal channels:
I just wanted to throw this out there, it has been a few years since my college history class (American History: Reconstruction to present) but our government passed several immigration laws that by today's standards would be viewed as racist. Look back at the influx of Mexicans in the 19th and early 20th century in California working on the farms as well as the Chinese in the 19th and 20th century working the railroads, resulted in laws limiting their numbers admitted into the country as citizens. And look to the east coast where they wanted to limit entry to America by the Irish and peoples of Southern Europe(browner skinned people) You won't learn this in high school history and it just goes to show that our country has a pre disposed bias towards people who aren't as white as our founding fathers. And don't forget that even if we just started opening up borders to allow people to seek citizenship, the costs associated with it limit those less fortunate who really see America as the land of Milk and Honey and opportunity.


Maybe you never learned that in your bumfark town, but most of us were taught that.
 
2012-01-22 11:08:05 PM

imprimere: Gyrfalcon: Pav: Sorry but if Obama gets the blame for high unemployment rate he gets to take credit for this drop in unemployment.

You can't have it both ways conservitards

Obviously, it's the strong sentiment created against illegal immigrants and the strong anti-immigrant laws proposed and created by Republicans in defiance of Obama and enforced despite him that have caused the amazing drop in unemployment (even in places where there aren't any such policies).

Actually, it's his fault unemployment isn't going down MORE!!!!

/I should work for FAUX.

You both make zero sense. So you are arguing that one person can cause a problem, but a DIFFERENT person cannot solve it.

If Obama burned a crop down to the ground and then Mr. ABC came along and replanted the crop, Obama gets the credit for the crop being 'fixed'?

Wow, that's some interesting logic there.


[thatsthejoke.jpg]
 
2012-01-22 11:08:20 PM

imprimere: PsiChick: imprimere: PsiChick: imprimere: Negative. My point has absolutely NOTHING to do with what's in the article. I said this should happen because they are ILLEGAL. Regardless of what results in the employment sector, it is wrong to just let people come to the country, take money from the economy, not pay taxes, and usually send that money back to their country. How much more context do you need?

I'll agree that the evidence isn't sufficiently supported, but there is no real evidence to the contrary. Hanging on the "causation" argument is more silly than correlating the immigration crackdown with the unemployment drop. The degree can absolutely be called in to question, but it is almost a certainity that at least one legal worker gained a job because illegals were removed from the equation.


Your position was exactly the same as TFA's: Illegals Bad. No evidence, nothing but random 'facts' you have no proof of. That is also the only way it was even slightly relevant to the discussion.
 
2012-01-22 11:09:11 PM

imprimere: eggrolls: The real news already called shenanigans.

No, they didn't.

First, they got some economist to say that more people quit looking for jobs, but he doesn't indicate where he got this number. It's easy to get numbers on employment, but I'm not sure where you come up with an imperical figure on people who aren't searching. Secondly, even if his number is accurate, he does not mention what this figure is for neighboring states (or the country as a whole) where the unemployment rate is not dropping so rapidly.

Even Bentley says there is no way to be certain, but your CBS article is hardly debunking anything said in the other article.


first, it's empirical.

and, it's SUPER EASY to find numbers on the labor force, and the change in the labor force is what that economist is talking about. (if it goes down, that means people have stopped looking for jobs, or retired, or died, or whatever. mostly the first one, for whatever reason.) here is an easy-to-find report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

if you scroll down to Table B, you will see a row labeled TOTAL Civilian Labor Force. you can see how it's fluncuated over the last 13 months. (incidentally, the TOTAL Employed row is the number of jobs, and if you look at the fluctuations in this number you can derive the jobs added or lost that are headlines in news reports.) so take the November number and subtract the October number; that's the number of people who ENTERED the job market. (in this case the number is -120, which means 120,000 people EXITED the job market.)

/not too hard
/tmyk
 
2012-01-22 11:45:15 PM

thoughtpol: imprimere: eggrolls: The real news already called shenanigans.

No, they didn't.

First, they got some economist to say that more people quit looking for jobs, but he doesn't indicate where he got this number. It's easy to get numbers on employment, but I'm not sure where you come up with an imperical figure on people who aren't searching. Secondly, even if his number is accurate, he does not mention what this figure is for neighboring states (or the country as a whole) where the unemployment rate is not dropping so rapidly.

Even Bentley says there is no way to be certain, but your CBS article is hardly debunking anything said in the other article.

first, it's empirical.

and, it's SUPER EASY to find numbers on the labor force, and the change in the labor force is what that economist is talking about. (if it goes down, that means people have stopped looking for jobs, or retired, or died, or whatever. mostly the first one, for whatever reason.) here is an easy-to-find report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

if you scroll down to Table B, you will see a row labeled TOTAL Civilian Labor Force. you can see how it's fluncuated over the last 13 months. (incidentally, the TOTAL Employed row is the number of jobs, and if you look at the fluctuations in this number you can derive the jobs added or lost that are headlines in news reports.) so take the November number and subtract the October number; that's the number of people who ENTERED the job market. (in this case the number is -120, which means 120,000 people EXITED the job market.)

/not too hard
/tmyk


Thanks for the correction on the transposition.

How can you say that a change in labor force means people have stopped looking? It simply means that jobs are not being filled. Just because a job is available and it doesn't get filled by Joe, it doesn't mean Joe isn't looking for a job.
 
2012-01-22 11:50:45 PM

imprimere: Smackledorfer: imprimere: Smackledorfer: imprimere: Smackledorfer: ThrobblefootSpectre: At the very least I think the left should stop trying to stigmatize immigration enforcement as "racist". The American public is able to see through this braindead herpderpery. If there is an economic or sociological argument, let's hear it. But the whole "we can't think of any better argument than to call people names" tactic is starting to backfire badly.

Let's be fair; if there weren't so many racists the left's accusations would be a lot less likely to stick. when the right is willing to lose votes by speaking out against discrimination instead of dog whistling then we'll get right on it.

So, you're argument is: "Well, you guys do it too!"

God I hate people who are so solidly locked into their party.

No, my argument was that republicans accept and cultivate the racist vote had nothing to do with this topic.

So you don't understand the relationship between a group tacitly supporting racism and being accused of racism?

I'm sorry, but the republican party has the stink of racism for good reason and one shouldn't be surprised that their immigration plans catch accusations of racism. When they wash up a but and give folks time to see them as changed, they can start being taken seriously.

And the Democrat party has its own stinks. What's your point?


See, I knew you were projecting earlier.

Republicans cultivate and benefit from racism and that is why they get accused of it (probably too often).

I've no doubt dems have their own similar issues. Throbb seemed confused about why folks assume republicans' motives could be racially based, and I explained how. It's that simple.
 
2012-01-23 12:17:49 AM

imprimere: The opposition to this is downright funny! Hey, it's a coincidence! This is racist! Really people? They are ILLEGAL. Rather you like them or not, they are not operating within the law. And by "they", I mean the illegal immigrants AND the employers. Yes, when you remove the cheap illegal labor, the jobs will be filled by legal workers, whether they be white, brown or black.

And for the support, don't go cheering to loudly just yet. There are logical consequences for this. When businesses can't get that cheap labor, costs WILL rise. Rather it be in the form of lower cap wages or higher costs of goods and services. American businesses haven't shown a penchant for just earning less and sucking it up.

Still, this is what should happen. It's a slap in the face to hard working Americans and millions of immigrants who arrived here and when through the legal process. Just because some people can jump a border, work cheaply (for the US), and send their money back home doesn't make them right or desirable.


Priblem is, its winter right now. They'll see if this law has the inrended consequences if americans show up to pick fruit in a field with 100 degree weather and last more than a week.

When fruit starts rotting on the tree cuz americans arent willing to take that job (collect check in air conditioned unemployment office will sound better), will we see similar coverage.

Immigrants wouldnt come here for jobs if they werent available. They were available because nobody wanted them in the first place.
 
2012-01-23 12:25:50 AM
FTFA:

Still, many counties have very high unemployment rates. For example, the formal unemployment rate in majority-black Wilcox County is 16.3%. It is 13.7 percent in Bullock County, and 13.5 percent in Perry County and Lowndes County.

So clearly the next step is to get rid of the Darkies.

//done in two
 
2012-01-23 12:49:29 AM

rga184:
Priblem is, its winter right now. They'll see if this law has the inrended consequences if americans show up to pick fruit in a field with 100 degree weather and last more than a week.

When fruit starts rotting on the tree cuz americans arent willing to take that job (collect check in air conditioned unemployment office will sound better), will we see similar coverage.

Immigrants wouldnt come here for jobs if they werent available. They were available because nobody wanted them in the first place.


A) By immigrants, do you mean legal or illegal?
B) To suggest that immigrants wouldn't come here if there were't jobs is wrong for a couple of reasons. They would come here if anything here has to offer is better than there. Also, even if no jobs were available, they can still offer to do the job for less compensation.
C) Are you really suggesting that there are no Americans (legal citizens) that can or will perform this labor?
 
2012-01-23 01:30:02 AM
Date National % Alabama %
December 2011 8.5% 8.1% -
November 2011 8.7% 8.7%
October 2011 8.9% 9.3%
September 2011 9.0% 9.8%
August 2011 9.1% 9.9%
July 2011 9.1% 10.0%
June 2011 9.1% 9.9%
May 2011 9.0% 9.6%
April 2011 9.0% 9.3%
March 2011 8.9% 9.2%
February 2011 9.0% 9.3%
January 2011 9.1% 9.3%
December 2010 9.4% 9.1%

So, since December 2010-November 2011, national unemployment fell 0.9%. Alabama unemployment 1.0%. Yay! A statistically insignificant difference! Lets base all our social policy on three cherry-picked numbers!

I know Statistics is too hard for partisan douchebags, but wouldn't it be more interesting to know what made unemployment leap in the summer, rather than what made the correction in the winter? Is employment in Alabama so season that it does that every year?

[Source]

Post-hoc, ergo propter hoc.
 
2012-01-23 01:34:59 AM

gwowen: Date National % Alabama %
December 2011 8.5% 8.1% -
November 2011 8.7% 8.7%
October 2011 8.9% 9.3%
September 2011 9.0% 9.8%
August 2011 9.1% 9.9%
July 2011 9.1% 10.0%
June 2011 9.1% 9.9%
May 2011 9.0% 9.6%
April 2011 9.0% 9.3%
March 2011 8.9% 9.2%
February 2011 9.0% 9.3%
January 2011 9.1% 9.3%
December 2010 9.4% 9.1%

So, since December 2010-November 2011, national unemployment fell 0.9%. Alabama unemployment 1.0%. Yay! A statistically insignificant difference! Lets base all our social policy on three cherry-picked numbers!

I know Statistics is too hard for partisan douchebags, but wouldn't it be more interesting to know what made unemployment leap in the summer, rather than what made the correction in the winter? Is employment in Alabama so season that it does that every year?

[Source]

Post-hoc, ergo propter hoc.


The numbers were less cherry picked than evaluated for a labor law that was going to have a significant effect on unemployment rates.
 
2012-01-23 01:41:37 AM

imprimere: C) Are you really suggesting that there are no Americans (legal citizens) that can or will perform this labor?


The difficulty is that if you can buy oranges from another country for X where they pay everyone pennies and then ship them, it may not be economically viable to hire americans to do the job; paying a wage that makes the job worthwhile might raise the price of the crop above a competitive level.

Now, I know what you are thinking, we have plenty of folks out of jobs, so they'll do what you tell them for what you are willing to pay them and they'll like it, right? Well, perhaps. In the long term, or during a boom, they won't be showing up. Then you've got farmers who are in a real jam: seasonal workers are ready in advance to come in for the picking season. Relying on locals to simply show up to a place like grand rapids michigan and not knowing what you'll get could cause trouble.

Finally, at a certain point it isn't about whether americans are lazy, but rather that they won't be retiring in the country of mexico and leaving their family there all year. They have to pay rent/mortgage at U.S. values, and retire in a U.S. economy.

That said, seasonal work is far from the only job that illegal immigrants perform. There is no excuse for our construction business to rely on immigrants to perform those tasks. They need the jobs year round, and should be paying the wages it takes to bring on the workers.
 
2012-01-23 02:26:09 AM
I wonder how long before they start noticing the rise in the cost of locally made goods?

Sadly, one of the major reasons for the wide spread use of immigrants, both legal and illegal is that they'll work a lot harder for minimum wage or less. Hire in a Citizen and he wants minimum wage or more and if dissatisfied with his pay level, will surreptitiously cut back on his work production. Or, as soon as he can, he'll join a union.

The 80's demanded bigger and faster profits from businesses and the at home stock trading technology enabled millions to buy or sell stock depending on their moods without the benefit of a professional trader's skill and understanding of the market.

That's one of the reasons prices went up. You can see that very clearly in beef.

Companies cut back on their workers to save costs. They cut back on benefits to save more and even cut back on retirement packages. All to show a bigger profit so they wouldn't take a beating in the stock market.

Immigrant labor became a necessity. Especially for farmers who had to harvest their crops as cheaply as possible.

You can see the influence in many stores across the nation as they started carrying more and more Mexican foods. Convenience stores became 'Bodaga's' (Gawd I hate that name!) and these payday loan places thrived because illegal's rarely had bank accounts.

Down here the high labor jobs are usually done by immigrants. Laying sod, tree trimming, landscaping, ditch digging, hand picking crops, citrus harvesting and cleaning up construction sites.

They helped balance the economy. It might not be right, but with every citizen demanding more money for less work, that's how it eventually worked out.

I'd say give them about 2 years and then they'll start griping about cost increases in everything locally produced.
 
2012-01-23 03:49:41 AM
I back going after the employers. I think the fines should be increased and go national.

It isn't the immigrant I object to, it is the illegal immigrant. Go through the legal process. If the legal process is broken (which I think it is) - don't stand around with our thumb up our collective butt, fix it.

Yes, things will cost more, but so what? Those crap jobs you guys think no legal will do? My daughter has been out of work for 2 years, and she'd take any honest way of making a living at this point.

But this will never fly because the folks on Capitol Hill are too busy arguing and posturing to make any progress on anything.

/fed up with ineffective government of any stripe, party or polka dot
 
2012-01-23 08:23:18 AM

KarmaSpork: I back going after the employers. I think the fines should be increased and go national.

It isn't the immigrant I object to, it is the illegal immigrant. Go through the legal process. If the legal process is broken (which I think it is) - don't stand around with our thumb up our collective butt, fix it.

Yes, things will cost more, but so what? Those crap jobs you guys think no legal will do? My daughter has been out of work for 2 years, and she'd take any honest way of making a living at this point.


THIS.

You can thank groups like AZEIR that would rather find a way to avoid citizens than to solve the problem by hiring citizens.
 
2012-01-23 08:59:44 AM
Of course everyone knows they are cuddle puppies and just want to work hard... some in the fields and some in the murder field.
Link (new window)
 
2012-01-23 10:42:51 AM
The current drop began back in July, but thanks for playing.
 
Xai
2012-01-23 11:17:34 AM
is it just me, or does anyone else think 1 month's data isn't enough to make a conclusion...
 
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