You can lump the Boomers in with everyone else after them in one regard: the expectation of rampant, instant material consumerism. Being able to retire used to mean having enough saved to cover basic needs so that one could stop working (if they lived long enough). Now, everybody has to live better than some of history's monarchs, and to somehow perpetuate that lifestyle beyond a sensible working age.

The psychologists who designed advertisements over the last 40 years have done one hell of a job for The Owners. We're hooked.

/Plans to stop working at a sensible age, living happily and simply
//Hopefully at 60
///Would love to lock myself in a library each day for hours on end...

Tillmaster: Don't knock the Boomers.

Blame it on the asswipe who replaced the pension with the 401K, and persuaded the corporate world (not just the US) to use this model. Asinine free-market religion.

There are lots of us codgers hanging onto a job, not because we want to, but because we can't afford not to. And before you give us crap about not saving - we did, and our savings cratered because each of us had to manage our own pension funds, rather than pool the funds and allow a professional to do so.

Result? No jobs for the youngsters.

You knew you had no pension and still didn't save. You wanted instant gratification. I already have 2x the average retiree savings for retirement and I'm 31. You are a part of the problem.

ftfa: "And those credit card mistakes? Some 13 percent of Gen Yers feel a parent is "highly obligated" to bail out kids who get in trouble with credit card debt"


so 13% of Gen Yers are entitled jerks. Explains the OWS crowd.



wonder how many said "not at all obligated" ?

MyRandomName: Tillmaster: Don't knock the Boomers.

Blame it on the asswipe who replaced the pension with the 401K, and persuaded the corporate world (not just the US) to use this model. Asinine free-market religion.

There are lots of us codgers hanging onto a job, not because we want to, but because we can't afford not to. And before you give us crap about not saving - we did, and our savings cratered because each of us had to manage our own pension funds, rather than pool the funds and allow a professional to do so.

Result? No jobs for the youngsters.

You knew you had no pension and still didn't save. You wanted instant gratification. I already have 2x the average retiree savings for retirement and I'm 31. You are a part of the problem.

THIS. 30 and I have about 5% over the average retirement savings at this point. And it's only going to grow as I do with my employer.

birdboy2000
2012-01-22 05:21:00 PM
fark this generational warfare shiat. We could pay for social security and medicare even for my generation (and I'm 22) if we weren't so allergic to raising taxes.

You will be taxed on it. The deficits and shortages to Social security are simply being passed off on to the future. The largesse that was enjoyed from the 80s and 90s, and now select few retiring folks was paid for by the taxes that will be raised on to your generation. What's worse is how Social Security was invested: Government Treasury bills, so once the interest depletes, probably sometime in the next 10 years, payouts will have to come from general treasury as the government buys back these T-bills to keep SS afloat.

So you will have higher taxes. And out of the taxes you pay a great portion will be paying off the goodies of past deficits and the interest to the lenders that provided it, and paying for current SS payments. On top of that you will have FICA going straight to current SS recipients with nothing left over to be invested. So by the time you look to retire you will be the one with reduced benefits, a higher retirement age, a lack of access to healthcare, and lucky if you can retire at all.

So it's not that we don't raise taxes. We already did, every year we ran a deficit, a payroll tax holiday, and didn't adjust FICA for future projections, every politician and every voter who supported them raised taxes. They just didn't raise them on themselves, they raised them on you.

kiwimoogle84: GoBadgers: Ed Finnerty: I hope you like rape, nursing homes, and rape.

And rape rape.

And rape rape rape.

/rape rape
//safe word is still flamingo

there is no safe word

Maybe if they would stop adding services covered by social security and get rid of fraud it wouldn't so bad.
If you don't put into it you don't get much out, at least not as much as the people who work most of their life and put into it most of their life and might not see any of the money they put into it.
It does have that word "security" in it.

ChuDogg: They just didn't raise them on themselves, they raised them on you.

They increased the FICA contributions in the 1980s to create the trust fund in the first place. Don't blame baby boomers for not contributing. The current 12.4% FICA was sold as a temporary tax increase just to get past the baby boomer retirements. Like most taxes, it's now permanent. Imagine that.

DarkVader: Your friends are probably taking the right path - enjoy life while you can, because the future's going to suck no matter what you do.

Great motto--it's up there with "I want to live on dog food and rain water for the last 1/3 of my life!"

cptjeff: iollow: It's not directly their fault. We have people living much longer and seeing the doctor every week.

Should we just let them suffer and die? Raise the retirement age? Raise taxes? We can't function without doing one of these.

Raising the retirement age really should be considered. But you can also raise the income cap. You can only be taxed for SS on the first $100k or so. Lift that cap to say, $1 million, or remove it altogether, and the system is completely solvent.

Though, given how thoroughly that generation has wrecked the US and the planet, suffer and die might be an option too.

The cap works on pay in and pay out. Removing it does very very short term fixing. Long term it does jack shiat. Stop spreading this retarded lie. Learn how ss works.

MyRandomName: Tillmaster: Don't knock the Boomers.

Blame it on the asswipe who replaced the pension with the 401K, and persuaded the corporate world (not just the US) to use this model. Asinine free-market religion.

There are lots of us codgers hanging onto a job, not because we want to, but because we can't afford not to. And before you give us crap about not saving - we did, and our savings cratered because each of us had to manage our own pension funds, rather than pool the funds and allow a professional to do so.

Result? No jobs for the youngsters.

You knew you had no pension and still didn't save. You wanted instant gratification. I already have 2x the average retiree savings for retirement and I'm 31. You are a part of the problem.

Did you actually read what I posted?

It's not a generational problem, it's a problem of people voting for idiots.

-1

MyRandomName: cptjeff: iollow: It's not directly their fault. We have people living much longer and seeing the doctor every week.

Should we just let them suffer and die? Raise the retirement age? Raise taxes? We can't function without doing one of these.

Raising the retirement age really should be considered. But you can also raise the income cap. You can only be taxed for SS on the first $100k or so. Lift that cap to say, $1 million, or remove it altogether, and the system is completely solvent.

Though, given how thoroughly that generation has wrecked the US and the planet, suffer and die might be an option too.

The cap works on pay in and pay out. Removing it does very very short term fixing. Long term it does jack shiat. Stop spreading this retarded lie. Learn how ss works.

Uh, he's not the one who doesn't know how Social Security works.

krackpipe: It's not a generational problem, it's a problem of people voting for idiots.

-1

You forgot a political system that's so utterly corrupt that only assclown puppets are allowed to run...

kiwimoogle84: krackpipe: It's not a generational problem, it's a problem of people voting for idiots.

-1

It's always a vote between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. Nothing ever changes.

No doubt. The system has been broken a long time. Direct elections might help.

Tillmaster: Don't knock the Boomers.

Blame it on the asswipe who replaced the pension with the 401K, and persuaded the corporate world (not just the US) to use this model. Asinine free-market religion.

There are lots of us codgers hanging onto a job, not because we want to, but because we can't afford not to. And before you give us crap about not saving - we did, and our savings cratered because each of us had to manage our own pension funds, rather than pool the funds and allow a professional to do so.

Result? No jobs for the youngsters.

No shait!
I hate being held up moving up the ladder because some old curmudgeon with 30 yrs of service doesn't take a hint an retire. And take the freaking micromanagement style with you.

/bitter

Boo freakin' hoo. I married a woman (Mrs. Fool) who is from another country. In her country, kids take care of their parents. We send money to help her live a simple life. We help our family.

As for the Americans who didn't save, FU. I don't care.

Ishkur: The Boomers are truly the generation that never grew up.

And now, being the ones in positions in power in industry, commerce and politics, they are acting the same way as they did when they were obnoxious, self-righteous teenagers in the 60s.

Why would we have ever suspected that the world would turn out for the better when they started controlling things?

Reading your post, I have a good idea for who never grew up. I don't blame my Baby Boomer folks for the nation electing an idiot like Bush twice. My folks have worked hard their entire lives and continue to.

This thread is about as depressing as a nursing home.

From the article:
Only one-third of baby boomers received help with college from their parents, compared with 46 percent of Gen-Xers, but about three-quarters of boomers said they had supported their own children through college.

Boomers didn't *need* help with college from their parents, because tuition at the state universities was virtually free for their generation.

Shaggy_C: ChuDogg: They just didn't raise them on themselves, they raised them on you.

They increased the FICA contributions in the 1980s to create the trust fund in the first place. Don't blame baby boomers for not contributing. The current 12.4% FICA was sold as a temporary tax increase just to get past the baby boomer retirements. Like most taxes, it's now permanent. Imagine that.

And this was mainly a feel-good measure with no practical effect. As my post mentioned, what was this "investment vehicle" they did with the FICA surplus? Government Treasury Bills. So the SS Administration hands over the excess funds every year to the general treasury which use those monies on current expenses. Even with this free gift of additional funds in the treasury they typically ran a deficit.

Now, the treasury did pay interest to the SS admin which was, in fact, saved. But the principle is already gone, spent. So we've bought ourselves another ten years (hopefully, but considering all these payrol tax holidays it's almost as if they are trying to bankrupt the system) to delay the problem, because when the government is forced to buy back the treasury bills they are going to have a hard time acquiring additional capital.

In defense of baby boomers (no, I am not one), I have considered many things over the years. Contrary to belief by some, most baby boomers would have had at least 3 times what they needed for retirement, but life threw a lot of roadblocks at them. Number one is the insane amount of law enforcement today that did not exist when they were in their twenties. They knew better...after McCarthy and Hoover...and I should shut it, the list is long. Anyway, I have known more of the elderly poor that only ended up that way because their kids (The Me Generation; oh the irony) just kept screwing up, and the baby boomer generation actually gave a crep about people other than themselves. Put that together with a few illnesses, then you lose everything and end up eating out of cat food cans.

What should be noted instead is exactly how difficult it is for anyone to end up half as good as the baby boomer generation had it. That's the scary part. Today, we just wait for the next round of layoffs, as the people laid off three years ago or more look on in despair, knowing just how many More people they will have to compete with for a job that pays as little as a third as the one they had before. This is life, folks. If you have it good, I advise you to pray daily to whatever you believe in. Tomorrow, it could be you.

Tillmaster: we did, and our savings cratered because each of us had to manage our own pension funds, rather than pool the funds and allow a professional to do so.

.

are you kidding me? you needed a professional?

any idiot knew to put their money in mutual funds with balanced risk based on their age.

It isn't as if that was some secret strategy that only the professional know and that etrade, or any of those online services could have helped you.

every 401k statement I ever got also said the same farking thing.

if you were too stupid to manage your own money based on everything that was out there, maybe you don't deserve to have money.

misanthropic1: krackpipe: It's not a generational problem, it's a problem of people voting for idiots.

-1

You forgot a political system that's so utterly corrupt that only assclown puppets are allowed to run...

Haven't forgotten that. The system is farked up and we all know it. My point is, how did Baby Boomers cause it? I don't blame my (Baby Boomer) folks for that system -- it was there when they arrived and they've worked their entire lives. I know I'm not dedicating my life to politics to change that system either. Most of us just do the best we can.

ChuDogg: And this was mainly a feel-good measure with no practical effect. As my post mentioned, what was this "investment vehicle" they did with the FICA surplus? Government Treasury Bills. So the SS Administration hands over the excess funds every year to the general treasury which use those monies on current expenses. Even with this free gift of additional funds in the treasury they typically ran a deficit.

Yes, this is well evident in the fact that in the 1990s the national debt increased every single year even though the government was claiming a surplus. You're getting into pretty wonky policy that most Baby Boomers (and most Americans for that measure) wouldn't understand. Yes, you can blame the American people for being ignorant, but they weren't maliciously creating this situation.

OlderGuy: IMO, Barack is growing the Government at an alarming rate, which we don't need and cannot afford, and getting more people on the government teat, which we also cannot afford.. And our aforementioned Government is busily enacting more restrictions on small businesses, which are the only entities that can save the country and help it recover.. And the entire Government seems to think that their prime responsibility is to grab as much as they can. This is a one party problem.. One party is the whole damn government, the other party is the american people.. and we, the american people, are getting farked. The person who is sucking on that teat will vote to keep the milk running.. and Obama is the Grand Teatmaster.. and his minions will support him.. and that is bad for the country.. and if you can't see that, the teat is blocking your vision
not a rant.. just reality... wish that integrity and honor was present in our government... it's not.....

Well since the government is elected by the people, then it's the people's problem as well. Your generation has done nothing but whine about how important you were, but guess what. You're the generation that holds all the money, power, and elected offices for the last 20 years. Whether it's your evil Obama-Muslim-Socialist, or your Clinton-Chubby-Chaser, or Bush II with his wars and tax cuts, you are all from the same cloth; "Do what we want now, and f*ck the future." Baby Boomers created the short-sighted policy and the complete negative political climate all because you could no longer deal with having to make the tough choices to keep America strong. Instead you kept blindly going on with a thought about the future. You are the Lost Generation.

ad: This thread is about as depressing as a nursing home.

here, this will cheer you up...

Baby Boomer Fight Club (new window)

bingethinker: Let's not forget that the first Boomer president, Bill Clinton, had the U.S. on path to eliminate the deficit.

Clinton did leave the country in a recession. You could argue that we still have yet to really recover from, only delayed it through fiscally insolvent policy measures.

He also signed NAFTA and paved the way for free trade which exported our middle class jobs overseas, especially the ones the GenX and GenYs should have rose to but are now working at Starbucks and Bestbuys. Of course, that would have happened regardless of a (R) or (D). The path was already layed out well in advance. The politics of it was just an illusion to sell it to the masses.

MyRandomName: cptjeff: iollow: It's not directly their fault. We have people living much longer and seeing the doctor every week.

Should we just let them suffer and die? Raise the retirement age? Raise taxes? We can't function without doing one of these.

Raising the retirement age really should be considered. But you can also raise the income cap. You can only be taxed for SS on the first $100k or so. Lift that cap to say, $1 million, or remove it altogether, and the system is completely solvent.

Though, given how thoroughly that generation has wrecked the US and the planet, suffer and die might be an option too.

The cap works on pay in and pay out. Removing it does very very short term fixing. Long term it does jack shiat. Stop spreading this retarded lie. Learn how ss works.

Yes, SS benefits are primarily paid from current workers. But the issue is that soon, boomers will be drawing checks, and there will be a lot less people to pay into that system.

If the problem is that SS, in its current incarnation, will go broke when hit with the retirement of the boomers due to more money going out and less going in, than one solution would be to raise the amount of money going in, and holding the extra in limbo until needed. Of course, this concept, known as "saving", is beyond the grasp of many boomers.

relaxitsjustme: How is it baby boomers fault? Look at the chart hemphead posted. It started to get out of control during the Reagan/Bush I years, Clinton was getting a handle on things towards the end of his second term and then Bush II got the job. Blame boomers if it makes you feel better but it's Republicans fault.

Don't talk sense. People don't like that.

Wow, a Boomer thread on top of a North vs South thread. The flamewars are gonna be awesome on FARK today...

/popcorn

Urinal Cake Mix: birdboy2000: fark this generational warfare shiat. We could pay for social security and medicare even for my generation (and I'm 22) if we weren't so allergic to raising taxes.

Pretty much this. Conservatives can biatch all they want about the legitimate need to raise taxes, but they can't also complain that they won't get SS/can't retire because the government doesn't have enough money to pay them. If you're going to play that game, I would like to know why the hell I should have to take care of you after you decide to retire. Figure it out, rookie biatch.

Why should the new generation pay more and more for retirement? They are already paying in over double than the baby boomers did. Remember, the rate doubled in the 80s. So now they pay more in and pay less out, and you want us to pay more. Fark you.

On the one hand, given that the Baby-Boomer generation is a much larger demographic than subsequent generations, they have in fact guided the economy through their buying power over the decades. Hence, as the generation moves through time, we started to see commercials especially geared to them.

On the other hand, as they get older, shouldn't more of them die on an annual basis, assuming that they are no healthier than any other generation (which I don't think they really are)? So, for arguments sake, if you have one hundred people in a generation and they die at an increasing rate over time, 1 might die in their 40s, 2 in their 50s, 3 in their 60s, 4 in their 70s...now, if there are more people, it just means more will die, right?

I suppose the other problem is that it also means that more of them will require long term care, which is the most expensive of health care aside from transplants...

I was made aware of all of this back in the early 90s after reading 13th Generation...goofy book, but lots of data that spooked me then.

I'm sick of 'Boomers' getting the blame for the debt.

I didn't ask for it and no one else I know did, either.

Put the blame where it belongs: Congress and their inability to turn down any special interest group that comes calling asking for more money.

I can't live beyond my means the government shouldn't, either.

douchebag/hater: I didn't ask for it and no one else I know did, either.

Yet you kept voting in the people that expanded the debt. We live in a representative democracy, which means you failed to do your job as citizens.

Stopped reading when it mentioned parents needing to pay for their children's education. That is bullshiat. There is nothing wrong at all for making their children pay for the college education.

Further more, what is wrong with parents not paying for their children's financial emergencies. All families should have saved up 3 to 6 months worth of their annual income saved up for when there are financial emergencies. And an emergency is not "Oooh, 3D Television, I must have that." No, it's for stuff like a new roof when it's needed or car repairs for when they come up.

When it comes to retirement, follow the following steps:

1) A life insurance policy, term, for your family that is completely outside of work.
2) Stop going into debt. If you can't afford it don't get it.
3) Save up $1,000 to about $5,000 for emergencies
4) Pay off your debts. Arrange them smallest to largest, make minimum payments on everything but the smallest debt and throw everything you can at it. After that's done, take the money you paid on that debt and the minimum payment on the next smallest debt and pay that off faster. Repeat until debt free.
5) Return to your emergency fund to boost it to 3 to 6 months worth of your annual income
6) work on your retirement. Work with a financial advisor. Investing in mutual funds can get you about 10% to 14% interest per year (Your bank won't even give you 2% but is investing your money in a mutual fund account). A financial advisor can average 12.5% a year for 30 years. If you pay off your debts, including your mortgage, and put all of that money into your retirement account, you can retire and never have to worry about Social Security.
7) Once your retirement account is more than your life insurance policy, cancel the life insurance policy.