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(The Daily Beast)   Newt's epic crushing of Mitt Romney, the Republican establishment's anointed candidate, has thrown the normally well-oiled GOP into a full-blown, pant-shiatting panic   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 272
    More: Amusing, Paul Begala, Mitt Romney, South Carolina, GOP, Newt Gingrich, Republican, human beings, Republican establishment  
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6709 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Jan 2012 at 5:02 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-01-23 01:10:14 AM  

Notabunny:
I've never understood the beatification of Reagan. My impression at the time was that most people saw him as a crappy-to-fair President. Hardly praiseworthy. Did I miss something?


In the UK he was perceived as variously a crook and a clown. He did receive an awful lot of respect for his negotiations with Gorbachev though, deserved or otherwise. I have always got the impression the worship started to get seriously going after he retired.
 
2012-01-23 01:17:44 AM  
So the whole GOP field comes down to two guys who have no problem with having three wives...they just disagree as to whether you can have them at the same time...
 
2012-01-23 01:31:18 AM  

Notabunny: I've never understood the beatification of Reagan. My impression at the time was that most people saw him as a crappy-to-fair President. Hardly praiseworthy. Did I miss something?


People of all political stripes tend to carry self-reinforcing delusions that strengthen over time. These are temporal rose-colored glasses through which the right wing is able to convince itself that 1950s America was exactly like what was portrayed in Leave it to Beaver, and through which the left wing is able to convince itself that 1960s was all about free love, primo ganja, sunshine, puppy dogs, and nobody had a care in the world (other than Vietnam).

So it goes with Reagan. I, too, was in kindergarten and elementary school during his administration, but I do remember him (and have seen plenty of archive footage). Unless you were completely blinded by politics, Reagan was a guy that was very difficult to dislike on an interpersonal level, even if you disagreed with his policies. He was affable and folksy, and he had a great, self-deprecating sense of humor.

Perhaps Reagan's greatest asset is the fact that he was in office when the Soviet Union began its inexorable collapse. Historians will continue to debate the role that Reagan's policies actually played in that collapse (that's not a debate that I'm interested in having here), but as somebody who lost sleep in the 1980s over the prospect of thermonuclear war with the Russians, the fall of the Iron Curtain was a major, defining event that many people gave (and continue to give) Reagan the credit for.

Of course, the reality is more complex. Reagan ushered in a massive transfer of wealth to the upper class from the middle class, a process which continues to this day. And despite the utopian views that the far right has about 1980s America, Reagan raised taxes several times, granted amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, negotiated with Islamic terrorists, endorsed the Brady gun control bill, and had his own share of ethical storm clouds over the White House, just to name a few. These are things that would get a candidate booed out of a Republican primary debate in 2012 America.

However, many on the far right choose to ignore this reality, just as they prefer to believe in the Leave it to Beaver vision of the 1950s. And again, this is not a phenomenon that is limited to the right wing -- we're all capable of convincing ourselves to believe things that are convenient to our own political persuasions, regardless of whether or not these things are based in reality.

This ended up being a bit longer than I had first intended.
 
2012-01-23 01:32:58 AM  

Notabunny: As a member of the generation who may not have been politically aware until a decade or more after he left office, I'm curious what your and your friends' impressions of Reagan are.


I was born in the Carter administration, and Reagan was an idiot that should have been impeached and removed from office so many times over it's a farking disgrace to this country he's remembered in the slightest positive light let alone the subject of historical revisionism to make him some deific political figure.

He was a B-list movie actor who bandwagoned the red scare and abused his status as SAG president to net him roles as his career diminished. He also ardently opposed the civil rights movement and the resulting legislation, tore California's welfare system to pieces as governor and accidentally signed off on legislation that would legalize abortion for the sake of health for the mother (a signature he regretted, apologized for and denounced until the day he died), shredded California's (and later, the US's) mental health services system even as PTSD-suffering Vietnam vets were returning home, violently suppressed Vietnam, civil rights, and social justice protests...

All before he became president.

Add in the Iran hostage crisis, actively being in bed with the IRA, the Iran-Contra scandal, the S&L crisis and all the married baggage such as bailing out proven embezzlers and perpetrators of large-scale financial fraud (otherwise known as the prototype to the 2008 financial crisis), abhorrent foreign policy in Latin-America I could go on about all day but for the sake of brevity will only mention Manuel Noriega and Nicaragua, actually extending the Cold War by 5-6 years and bringing the US and USSR closer to nuclear war than at any point since the Cuban missile crisis, backing a bunch of guys led by this unknown unimportant guy called Osama bin Laden, supporting Apartheid (until public outcry forced him to 180), giving biological and chemical agents to Saddam Hussein which were promptly used against Kurds, union busting, "starving the beast" while jacking up military spending to levels unprecedented since the second world war, shifting the tax burden onto the middle class while giving immense tax breaks to the rich, wide swathes of deregulation which led to the "revolving door" bullshiat we have nowadays and widespread regulatory capture...

Not to sound like a hateful, inhuman bastard here, but the only reason I'm glad Jodie Foster hadn't been sufficiently impressed is because we would have ended up with GHWB in charge of the nuclear arsenal eight years before he ended up with it anyway. And we still might have been better off for it.
 
2012-01-23 01:37:48 AM  

Steigen: "Epic crushing"?

Guess how I know Subby is a douchenozzle teet sucking coont?


Newt winning a primary election isn't an epic crushing.

This is an epic crushing:
cdn-www.cracked.com

/hot
//like your mom
 
2012-01-23 01:38:49 AM  
Fark, fine, let's do it. President Gingrich. Let's burn this motherfarker to the ground.
 
2012-01-23 01:51:33 AM  

Steigen: coco ebert:
Um, I wasn't referring to their war chest. I'm talking more about attitude and expectations.

Either fail and they have speaking engagements and Fox News stints for the foreseeable future...only one of them would potentially need the income though.

Love your analysis.


It's not always about money. Romney has daddy issues, and he desperately wants, more than anything in the world, to succeed where his father failed. That means winning the presidency. Gingrich, on the other hand, just wants to show himself for the 5468th time that he is the greatest motherfarker the world has ever seen. If he loses, he'll come up with some other reason the day after the election.
 
2012-01-23 02:03:35 AM  
Reagan signed off on weekly machine gunnings of people, families and villages - all in the name of CORPORATE POWER.

Clinton and Vernon Jordan helped the DNC jump on the bandwagon. It is over.
 
2012-01-23 02:14:59 AM  
Darn my parents for raising a sensible, progressive, humane little semi-liberal. Because I would so love to vote for Newt. He's a hoot!

OMG! Southern campaign slogan! "VOTE FOR NEWT, HE'S A HOOT!"
 
2012-01-23 02:22:10 AM  
oi42.tinypic.com
 
2012-01-23 04:35:42 AM  

A Dark Evil Omen: [oi42.tinypic.com image 275x102]


Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo o oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
2012-01-23 07:33:55 AM  

Diogenes: hubiestubert: I think the question is will Gingrich hold on from imploding his own campaign before the Convention?

I don't trust that he won't do something colossally stupid and damaging before the convention. There's only so much lemonade you can make.


For one thing, his new strategy of attacking the press rather than answering questions has a limited shelf life - pretty soon, people will start to notice that he isn't answering any of the questions.
 
2012-01-23 08:19:43 AM  

jso2897: Diogenes: hubiestubert: I think the question is will Gingrich hold on from imploding his own campaign before the Convention?

I don't trust that he won't do something colossally stupid and damaging before the convention. There's only so much lemonade you can make.

For one thing, his new strategy of attacking the press rather than answering questions has a limited shelf life - pretty soon, people will start to notice that he isn't answering any of the questions.


Moderates and independents would, but at this point you have to question how many are left in the GOP primary voting base. South Carolina much better represents the GOP nation wide voting base than New Hampshire, which is why they have picked the eventual nomination winner in every primary since 1980.

Further, Newt isn't the only one with a longevity problem. Mittens historically has also had a problem of people generally liking him less the more they get to know him. He had the money and the machinery behind him in 2008, as well. He also doesn't appear to do well under pressure. And Mitt's path isn't going to get any easier if Santorum drops out.
 
2012-01-23 09:40:38 AM  

mr lawson: A Dark Evil Omen: [oi42.tinypic.com image 275x102]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo o oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


PADME
 
2012-01-23 09:48:48 AM  

DarKrow: spongeboob: DarKrow: GaryPDX: FlashHarry: GaryPDX: RON PAUL

an 76 year old racist homophobe? i doubt it.

He's not racist. And you could marry your boyfriend in your State if you want to.

I live in Pennsylvania. The hell I can. We're gonna be behind Alabama in legalizing that sort of thing.

I am not sure where you are getting that idea.

You ever live in this state? You've got Philadelphia on one side, Pittsburgh on the other, and in between some of the most horrible, redneck, gun-toting, queer-bashing, right wing, christian nutballs the planet's ever seen. Everyone thinks it's only below the Mason-Dixon line, but buddy, rural PA is chock-full of them, and they hate the blacks, the queers, the Mexicans, and the Catholics. The day this state legalizes Gay Marriage on its own is the day the sun turns into a lump of charcoal the size of your forehead, which means that any wedding will require flashlights and sweaters.

TL;DR: Pennsylvania elected Rick Santorum to the Senate.


Actually live in PA, born and raised in Mifflin county now in Bradford county, and I am not seeing a lot of antigay stuff. Seeing a moderate amount of anti-Obama.

If you remember PA kicked Santorum to the curb pretty hard.
 
2012-01-23 10:02:08 AM  
Why am I reminded of a slapstick silent film where people are on a boat at sea in a storm. The boat rocks, the people run back and forth. Newt the Poot is on top... for now.
 
2012-01-23 10:17:49 AM  

spongeboob: DarKrow: spongeboob: DarKrow: GaryPDX: FlashHarry: GaryPDX: RON PAUL

an 76 year old racist homophobe? i doubt it.

He's not racist. And you could marry your boyfriend in your State if you want to.

I live in Pennsylvania. The hell I can. We're gonna be behind Alabama in legalizing that sort of thing.

I am not sure where you are getting that idea.

You ever live in this state? You've got Philadelphia on one side, Pittsburgh on the other, and in between some of the most horrible, redneck, gun-toting, queer-bashing, right wing, christian nutballs the planet's ever seen. Everyone thinks it's only below the Mason-Dixon line, but buddy, rural PA is chock-full of them, and they hate the blacks, the queers, the Mexicans, and the Catholics. The day this state legalizes Gay Marriage on its own is the day the sun turns into a lump of charcoal the size of your forehead, which means that any wedding will require flashlights and sweaters.

TL;DR: Pennsylvania elected Rick Santorum to the Senate.

Actually live in PA, born and raised in Mifflin county now in Bradford county, and I am not seeing a lot of antigay stuff. Seeing a moderate amount of anti-Obama.

If you remember PA kicked Santorum to the curb pretty hard.


Santorum was kicked to the curb after it was made clear that he and his family were living in Virginia, and he was replaced by Bob Casey, a milquetoast pro-life Democrat with name recognition.

As for anti-Obama, I'm sure a huge chunk of that is based on him having a high melanin content and being the embodiment of liberalism and anti-Christian values like equal rights for gay people.
 
2012-01-23 10:41:22 AM  

Steigen: "Epic crushing"?

Guess how I know Subby is a douchenozzle teet sucking coont?


romney expected to win SC handily. instead, gingrich beat him by double digits. if that's not an epic crushing, i don't know what is.

/and "douchenozzle teet sucking coont?" such hostility! my, my... do you suck your mother's dick with that mouth?
 
2012-01-23 12:10:32 PM  

Steigen: Come to California, you may find someone here to listen to your drivel. We've got unicorns and rainbows and shiat.....definitely no libertarians.

//maybe a few actually


I'll bet you can tell how we know you don't spend much time in the northern third of the state. See State of Jefferson. ;^)
 
2012-01-24 02:29:53 AM  

CapnBlues: Notabunny: CapnBlues: (That's not an exaggeration; he actually uses the moniker "Ronaldus Magnus" to refer to Reagan.)

I've never understood the beatification of Reagan. My impression at the time was that most people saw him as a crappy-to-fair President. Hardly praiseworthy. Did I miss something?

don't ask me. i was 0-7 years old when he was president.


And I was 2-10.

Here's a realization for you.

Fact: Elvis Presley was similarly over-idealized in the music world, to the point where "Elvis Impersonators" are legion even today, and their services are called upon to do things the real Elvis never did--like preside over weddings while being called "The King".
Fact: Elvis's active years were 1956 to 1977. A person who was raised during the height of Elvis-mania-say, born in 1959- would be hitting voting age just in time to pull the lever for Reagan. At the same time, they'd be popping out people like you and me.
Fact: 30 years later, Reagan and Elvis have an unholy mystique about them that doesn't match actual deeds (especially towards the end there with Reagan going out under a fog of Alzheimer's and Elvis becoming a fat, drug-addled, slurring sack of shiat. Now take a close look at the "Elvis Impersonators"...which Elvis are they impersonating?), and conversely, we are getting blamed for our parents' own lack of parenting skills.

Conclusion: Our parents' generation is a bunch of goddamned idiots that didn't know what an "entertainer" was.
 
2012-01-24 02:46:20 AM  

eldritch2k4: This is an epic crushing:
[cdn-www.cracked.com image 480x288]

/hot
//like your mom


Ah, the story behind that illustration.
From the victim's perspective, it's really a choice between farked and more-farked.
The men piling the rocks on him are fine Christian inquisitors, trying to get him, by the grace of God Almighty, to confess to the heinious crime that he has certainly committed.
(whether he has or not is immaterial to this story, just as it's immaterial to the inquisitors).
Oh by the way, admitting to guilt will get the rocks taken off, sure, but just long enough for him to be hauled up in front of the magistrate (God be with him), upon which the magistrate will promptly sentence him to death AND the confiscation of all his goods, thus certainly condemning his family to poverty and the stigma of being the damaged goods family of a felon, which will also result in their deaths by starvation (in accordance with God's mercy).
Refusing to admit guilt means you die right then and there (but hey, you were going to do that anyway, right?), but your property cannot be confiscated and you remain merely "accused", not "convicted"...wife and kids at least have that much. Pleading innocent? See "guilty", with a few days worth of "kangaroo court" beforehand.

Most victims didn't think that deeply (that's why Giles got himself a Cracked article) and cried out their guilt, thus making a bad situation worse-taking their families down with them.

So the question.

Who do you put in what slot? Who, in today's parlance, would be Giles (the man who knows he's farked, but has the guts to limit the damage) and who would be the inquisitor (wants one thing and one thing only, but in the end is denied)
 
2012-01-24 10:16:38 AM  

Ishidan: CapnBlues: Notabunny: CapnBlues: (That's not an exaggeration; he actually uses the moniker "Ronaldus Magnus" to refer to Reagan.)

I've never understood the beatification of Reagan. My impression at the time was that most people saw him as a crappy-to-fair President. Hardly praiseworthy. Did I miss something?

don't ask me. i was 0-7 years old when he was president.

And I was 2-10.

Here's a realization for you.

Fact: Elvis Presley was similarly over-idealized in the music world, to the point where "Elvis Impersonators" are legion even today, and their services are called upon to do things the real Elvis never did--like preside over weddings while being called "The King".
Fact: Elvis's active years were 1956 to 1977. A person who was raised during the height of Elvis-mania-say, born in 1959- would be hitting voting age just in time to pull the lever for Reagan. At the same time, they'd be popping out people like you and me.
Fact: 30 years later, Reagan and Elvis have an unholy mystique about them that doesn't match actual deeds (especially towards the end there with Reagan going out under a fog of Alzheimer's and Elvis becoming a fat, drug-addled, slurring sack of shiat. Now take a close look at the "Elvis Impersonators"...which Elvis are they impersonating?), and conversely, we are getting blamed for our parents' own lack of parenting skills.

Conclusion: Our parents' generation is a bunch of goddamned idiots that didn't know what an "entertainer" was.


gotta hand it to elvis, though -- he did a really good job of ripping off black people's music and semi-santizing it for white people's consumption.
 
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